Suspending the Constitution for the ‘Rona

[Left Seater]

We have all been told that we can’t gather in groups at this time. We have also been told that religious services are banned in person. Both are rights guaranteed by the Constitution.

A couple of States have also banned elective surgeries (my father in law’s knee replacement is now scheduled for Aug instead of this past Wed.). Included in this ban on elective procedures is Abortion unless the mother’s life is at risk.

This has already made it to the appeals court level in Texas where the Appeals court has allowed the temporary measure to stand. They reasoned that if some Constitutional rights can be suspended so can others.

I get that abortion is legal in this country at the moment. This isn’t to argue that. The question is can abortions be temporarily suspended? If not why?

[Wolfman]

Whatever. The whole thing has smelled funny to me since day one. Death rate no more than most all diseases and causes and we are doing these things ? MADNESS.

[Kierland]

We have all been told that we can’t gather in groups at this time. We have also been told that religious services are banned in person. Both are rights guaranteed by the Constitution.

A couple of States have also banned elective surgeries (my father in law’s knee replacement is now scheduled for Aug instead of this past Wed.). Included in this ban on elective procedures is Abortion unless the mother’s life is at risk.

This has already made it to the appeals court level in Texas where the Appeals court has allowed the temporary measure to stand. They reasoned that if some Constitutional rights can be suspended so can others.

I get that abortion is legal in this country at the moment. This isn’t to argue that. The question is can abortions be temporarily suspended? If not why?

No, because they are time sensitive like trauma surgery and many heart surgeries and whatnot.

[Kierland]

Whatever. The whole thing has smelled funny to me since day one. Death rate no more than most all diseases and causes and we are doing these things ? MADNESS.

Ok old man, what is the death rate for “most diseases” and what is it for #19?

[Left Seater]

Time sensitive? So is Easter, but those gatherings have been suspended.

[Kierland]

Easter is surgery.

[Innocent Bystander]

Whatever. The whole thing has smelled funny to me since day one. Death rate no more than most all diseases and causes and we are doing these things ? MADNESS.

Ok old man, what is the death rate for “most diseases” and what is it for #19?

The death rate will never be known due to the fucked up accounting methods everyone is using.

[Left Seater]

Easter is surgery.

Of course not. But Easter which is one of the biggest days in the Christian Religion comes only once a year.

If you are going to use a time sensitive argument for one Constitutional Right, you can’t deny it for others.

[Kierland]

It’s has to also be necessary, that is part of time sensitive. I should have explained that better.

[quote=Kierland post_id=<a href="tel:1021894">1021894</a> time=<a href="tel:1586615554">1586615554</a> user_id=1152]
Easter is surgery.

Of course not. But Easter which is one of the biggest days in the Christian Religion comes only once a year.

If you are going to use a time sensitive argument for one Constitutional Right, you can’t deny it for others.
[/quote]
There is no harm in having Easter with your isolation partners. If you don’t get your bypass or your abortion there is a harm. It’s part of being time sensitive, I should have made that more clear.

[Left Seater]

Bypass surgery isn’t elective in most people’s view. Abortion is certainly elective to about half of the citizens.

[smackaholic]

It’s has to also be necessary, that is part of time sensitive. I should have explained that better.

[quote=Kierland post_id=<a href="tel:1021894">1021894</a> time=<a href="tel:1586615554">1586615554</a> user_id=1152]
Easter is surgery.

Of course not. But Easter which is one of the biggest days in the Christian Religion comes only once a year.

If you are going to use a time sensitive argument for one Constitutional Right, you can’t deny it for others.

There is no harm in having Easter with your isolation partners. If you don’t get your bypass or your abortion there is a harm. It’s part of being time sensitive, I should have made that more clear.[/quote]
How many abortions are “necessary”?

I would guess a rather small percentage.

As for their being time sensitive, yeah, they are. If you wait too long, they could actually turn into a human being.


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[smackaholic]

Bypass surgery isn’t elective in most people’s view. Abortion is certainly elective to about half of the citizens.

Actually, a substantial majority of abortions are elective to anyone.

I’m not debating whether or not they should be legal, but to call them anything other than elective is ridiculous.


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[Kierland]

Bypass surgery isn’t elective in most people’s view. Abortion is certainly elective to about half of the citizens.

I didn’t say elective. You did.
If she doesn’t have the abortion now she can’t later. Which I’m sure is what you want.

[Left Seater]

Bypass surgery isn’t elective in most people’s view. Abortion is certainly elective to about half of the citizens.

I didn’t say elective. You did.
If she doesn’t have the abortion now she can’t later. Which I’m sure is what you want.

Correct. I said elective in the very first post because some states are labeling it as an elective procedure, which it absolutely is.

[Kierland]

As for their being time sensitive, yeah, they are. If you wait too long, they could actually turn into a human being.


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Which is what you are angling for.

[Kierland]

Bypass surgery isn’t elective in most people’s view. Abortion is certainly elective to about half of the citizens.

I didn’t say elective. You did.
If she doesn’t have the abortion now she can’t later. Which I’m sure is what you want.

Correct. I said elective in the very first post because some states are labeling it as an elective procedure, which it absolutely is.

I don’t care what they label it as if it doesn’t take into account the time sensitive nature of the procedure.

[Left Seater]

I don’t care what they label it as if it doesn’t take into account the time sensitive nature of the procedure.

Ok. So they labeled it as elective, which is allowing them to prevent it for the time being.

[Kierland]

Yes, doesn’t make it right.

[Innocent Bystander]

We have all been told that we can’t gather in groups at this time. We have also been told that religious services are banned in person. Both are rights guaranteed by the Constitution.
.....
I get that abortion is legal in this country at the moment. This isn’t to argue that. The question is can abortions be temporarily suspended? If not why?

Is it a right? Because nig.gas get told to disperse all of the time, without any crime having been committed.

Church isn't suspended. The number of people who can't bother with social distancing has been suspended. How often does your church clean every surface? Facebook, other internet meeting apps, televised ministries, phone calls to parishioners, one on one meetings, why do people go to church?

Yes, abortions can be suspended. Why wouldn't they be? Given it's legal to abort in some places even with the head crowning, how is abortion time sensitive anymore? It isn't.

[Innocent Bystander]

If she doesn’t have the abortion now she can’t later.

Why, she'll change her mind?

Gotta keep those nig.ga numbers down by any means necessary, though, right?

[Left Seater]

Abortion advocates claim it is a Constitutional right. How a right to privacy is interpreted to mean killing a living being is Constitutional, seems like a stretch to me, but that’s what was ruled.

[Left Seater]

This has no been appealed to the SCOTUS.

The prevailing argument of the abortion side is this:

“ constitutional rights don’t cease to exist just because there’s a pandemic”

If they are to prevail using this argument, then look for legal challenges to the shelter in place orders. If you can’t suspend one Constitutional Right, then you can’t suspend any.

[smackaholic]

As for their being time sensitive, yeah, they are. If you wait too long, they could actually turn into a human being.


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Which is what you are angling for.

I’m not angling for shit. Just pointing out facts.

The fact is that in the great majority of cases, the result will be the birf of a healthy baby.

And there will be a line of people willing to adopt it as an infant.

As for what I am “angling” for, is for us to get back to work.

And yes, even abortion docs.

Putting off a knee surgery because someone might contract #19 in the OR is asinine.

An OR is already a sterile environment. It’s as socially isolated as it gets.

Same goes for dentist office.

You feeling well, not coughing, no fever? It’s OK to have a dentist with his standard PPE work on you.

How many will put off an appointment because it’s not that bad, then end up with an abscess that could kill them?


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[Left Seater]

Holic, the OR isn’t the issue with having a knee replacement. It is the hospital stay for the next 5-7 days that gets everyone worried.

[Kierland]

This has no been appealed to the SCOTUS.

The prevailing argument of the abortion side is this:

“ constitutional rights don’t cease to exist just because there’s a pandemic”

If they are to prevail using this argument, then look for legal challenges to the shelter in place orders. If you can’t suspend one Constitutional Right, then you can’t suspend any.

I think you mean not not no. Sometimes people do make typos. :?

The USC is always a balance, it is what you learn in Con Law on day two after they teach you about 1066 and 1215. Again the “down” side of missing an abortion or some other surgeries is “worse” than the alternative since it is possible to safely do the procedure in a building with no ‘rona patients.

I know they aren’t really rights if they can be taken away, but there is always the underlying “but” in most con law questions.
Like free speech doesn’t include soliciting murder because it didn’t include that when we “took the right from the king” which is a concept 88 doesn’t seem to understand, but hopefully you do.

[Kierland]

Holic, the OR isn’t the issue with having a knee replacement. It is the hospital stay for the next 5-7 days that gets everyone worried.

‘Holic,
What he said.

[Innocent Bystander]

Ever have a dream so complex you wish you had photographic memory to go back through it again?

Thank you, Left Seater, and Kierland, for this thread.

[Derron]

It is the hospital stay for the next 5-7 days that gets everyone worried.

I had a total right knee in December 2018. In at 11 am, out by 11 am the next day. The hack who worked on me does 4 to 6 a day, 4 days a week.

The Oregon Republican minority is calling our communist governor out. The rural hospitals they worked so hard to get established and funded are now bleeding cash at a horrid rate. No electives means nothing much happening for them. ER visits are down 70% and admissions as much. The system my wife works for is a larger system but they are hurting to and starting into their cash reserves, which are pretty good, but over time impacts a lot of different ratios and not what auditors or lenders want to see.

[Innocent Bystander]

It is the hospital stay for the next 5-7 days that gets everyone worried.

I had a total right knee in December 2018. In at 11 am, out by 11 am the next day. The hack who worked on me does 4 to 6 a day, 4 days a week.

The Oregon Republican minority is calling our communist governor out. The rural hospitals they worked so hard to get established and funded are now bleeding cash at a horrid rate. No electives means nothing much happening for them. ER visits are down 70% and admissions as much. The system my wife works for is a larger system but they are hurting to and starting into their cash reserves, which are pretty good, but over time impacts a lot of different ratios and not what auditors or lenders want to see.

It pays to keep people sick?

[Left Seater]

There is now a lawsuit in CA that names the governor among others as preventing the free exercise of religion. Some churches claim they should be allowed to have services since they can comply with social distancing.

However, given the abortion ruling it would seem this should be shot down.

[Kierland]

Both of which I disagree with. Outright bans at this point are Overbroad (because many banned things can be done safely) and therefore Constitutionally void.

[EAP]

Both of which I disagree with. Outright bans at this point are Overbroad (because many banned things can be done safely) and therefore Constitutionally void.

every so often you make total sense

[Kierland]

I make sense all the time. You are just a stupid idiot beholden to an ideology so you have to use pretzel logic most of the time. I’m guided by reason so I get to be right every time, well at least more often than you and your nazi handler.

[Kierland]

You married a cow.