Look what Bush hath wrought

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Look what Bush hath wrought

Post by Mister Bushice »

Nice. Not only have we not defeated them, we have given them a real life training ground to improve their skills.

Who was it that thought attracting terrorists to one spot to kill them all would actually work?

Iraq is now a terrorist training ground, CIA says

Wed Jun 22, 2:10 PM ET

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The
CIA believes the
Iraq insurgency poses an international threat and may produce better-trained Islamic terrorists than the 1980s
Afghanistan war that gave rise to
Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda, a U.S. counterterrorism official said on Wednesday.

A classified report from the U.S. spy agency says Iraqi and foreign fighters are developing a broad range of deadly skills, from car bombings and assassinations to tightly coordinated conventional attacks on police and military targets, the official said.

Once the insurgency ends, Islamic militants are likely to disperse as highly organized battle-hardened combatants capable of operating throughout the Arab-speaking world and in other regions including Europe.

Fighters leaving Iraq would primarily pose a challenge for their countries of origin including Saudi Arabia and Jordan.

But the May report, which has been widely circulated in the intelligence community, also cites a potential threat to the United States.

"You have people coming to the action with anti-U.S. sentiment ... And since they're Iraqi or foreign Arabs or to some degree Kurds, they have more communities they can blend into outside Iraq," said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity due to the report's classified status.

Iraq has become a magnet for Islamic militants similar to Soviet-occupied Afghanistan two decades ago and Bosnia in the 1990s, U.S. officials say.

Bin Laden won prominence as a U.S. ally in the war against Soviet troops in Afghanistan. He later used Afghanistan as the training center for his al Qaeda network, which is blamed for the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on Washington and New York.

President Bush justified the invasion of Iraq in part by charging that
Saddam Hussein was supporting al Qaeda. A top U.S. inquiry later found no collaboration between prewar Iraq and the bin Laden network.

But since the invasion, Jordanian-born militant Abu Musab al-Zarqawi has emerged as a key insurgent figure and pledged his allegiance to bin Laden.

While the Afghan war against the Soviets was largely fought on a rural battlefield, the CIA report said Iraq is providing extremists with more comprehensive skills including training in operations devised for populated urban areas.

"You have everything from bombings and assassinations to more or less conventional attacks," the counterterrorism official said.

"The urban warfare experience, for people facing fairly tight police and military activity at close quarters, should enable them to operate in a wider range of settings."

CIA Director Porter Goss first described the insurgency in Iraq as an emerging international threat in February during testimony before the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence.

Vice President
Dick Cheney has recently argued that the insurgency is in its last throes, despite reports that the guerrillas have grown more sophisticated and more deadly.

Goss said in an interview with Time magazine that the insurgency was not quite in its last throes, "but I think they are very close to it. And I think that every day that goes by in Iraq where they have their own government and it's moving forward reinforces just how radical (the insurgents) are and how unwanted they are."

The CIA believes the Iraq insurgency poses an international threat and may produce better-trained Islamic terrorists than the 1980s Afghanistan war that gave rise to Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda, officials said on June 22, 2005. A classified report from the U.S. spy agency says Iraqi and foreign fighters are developing a broad range of skills, from car bombings and assassinations to coordinated conventional attacks on police and military targets, officials said.
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Post by Shlomart Ben Yisrael »

"Vice President
Dick Cheney has recently argued that the insurgency is in its last throes, despite reports that the guerrillas have grown more sophisticated and more deadly. "


So the insurgency is in it's "last throes" AND it's growing more sophisticated and deadly.

Nice. This guys is your vice-president correct?
Wow.
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Re: Look what Bush hath wrought

Post by BSmack »

mvscal wrote:
Mister Bushice wrote:Nice. Not only have we not defeated them, we have given them a real life training ground to improve their skills.
Few of them live long enough to benefit from their experience.

No real surprise that you missed the obvious fact that it is a real life training ground to improve our skills, as well. Not to mention the fact that our troops sustain astronomically fewer casualties than they do.

You are a complete idiot incapable of any independent thought or reasoning after all.
Ah, the old "their body count is higher than ours" argument.

That worked out well in Viet Nam eh?
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Post by Mister Bushice »

bah. Terrorists don't typically fight against soldiers, which is most likely one of the reasons why the recent attacks are aimed at their usual targets - civilians.

So what if we learned skills? The next time terrorists attack the US the army won't be on patrol where that event occurs.
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Post by Mister Bushice »

it's that kind of " they can't touch us" attitude that brought us 9-11.
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Post by Variable »

You have heard what happens when these camps are located right? Nuked from orbit. What's the problem?

Better that they're training in Iraq, where we already have a sizeable ground and air force on location, than training in the Sudan or somewhere else virtually unreachable and undetectable. Not like we don't have a satellite or 7 already tasked for Iraq or anything.
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Post by BSmack »

mvscal wrote:It was the "it's a law enforcement issue" that brought us 9/11.

"No thanks you can keep OBL. I doubt I could convict him of anything. Besides I'm about to shoot my load on this here fat pig."

--Bubba Crintawn
Clinton was President when OJ was acquitted. Maybe he knew something about juries that you don't.
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Post by Variable »

You just fucking kill him.
The lefties want to give him a big bear hug and get him some anger management counseling because he's clearly had a troubled childhood and just needs someone to listen.
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Post by Shlomart Ben Yisrael »

Just lightening the mood...
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Post by BSmack »

mvscal wrote:Juries? What the fuck are you talking about? You still don't get it. You don't put this piece of shit on trial. You just fucking kill him.
Yea, easy does it with the meds pmscal.
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Post by tough love »

mvpot say's:
you are a complete idiot incapable of any independent thought or reasoning after all.
:lol:

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Post by Diogenes »

mvscal wrote:It was the "it's a law enforcement issue" that brought us 9/11.

"No thanks you can keep OBL. I doubt I could convict him of anything. Besides I'm about to shoot my load on this here fat pig."

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Post by Diogenes »

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Post by Mister Bushice »

Variable wrote:You have heard what happens when these camps are located right? Nuked from orbit. What's the problem?

Better that they're training in Iraq, where we already have a sizeable ground and air force on location, than training in the Sudan or somewhere else virtually unreachable and undetectable. Not like we don't have a satellite or 7 already tasked for Iraq or anything.
No V, It's the war. They're using the war as a training ground, not establishing camps where they practice war.
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Post by Variable »

From what I've heard, they've been establishing training areas near the Syrian Border for insurgents/terrorists prior to them entering the battle.

If the war is their training ground, great! Buy stock in ammunition companies.
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Post by Mister Bushice »

Funny. All we're doing is providing them an urban training ground to practice on without diminishing their numbers one bit.
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Post by Mister Bushice »

Furthermore, Gen. John Abizaid told the Senate Armed Services Committee, "I believe there are more foreign fighters coming into Iraq than there were six months ago."
If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator." —GWB Washington, D.C., Dec. 19, 2000
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Post by DrDetroit »

So if I am reading Bushice correctly...this war was a mistake because it's serving as a training ground for terrorists??

And what of Abizaid's remark, Bushice?

Did you expect something different?

You don't think that a democratic Iraq is a direct threat to middle east terror groups??
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Post by Variable »

Exactly, Detroit. There have been 1500 Iraqi deaths since they formed the government just two months ago.
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Post by Mister Bushice »

DrDetroit wrote:So if I am reading Bushice correctly...this war was a mistake because it's serving as a training ground for terrorists??
This poorly planned war is a mistake, yes. If it had been executed with more planning and better equipment, we wouldn't be hearing remarks from top military officials contradicting the vice President.
And what of Abizaid's remark, Bushice?
Shows you that all the propaganda about the insurgency waning was a lie.
Did you expect something different?
I expect a little more honesty and forthrightness and less bullshit.
You don't think that a democratic Iraq is a direct threat to middle east terror groups??
It would be if it was one.
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Post by Variable »

Bushice, it's not that their increasing numbers aren't worrisome, they are, but as long as they keep flooding there, they aren't flooding here. Therefore I see no reason to panic, and many others share similar feelings.
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Post by Mister Bushice »

It's not panic. The terrorists have been claiming all along that we won't stop them, and it's being proven true.

We need to get out of there ASAP. It's a waste of American lives. As long as we are the occupying force there we are the recruiting tool for terrorists and a training ground for their leaders. Just because they send bodies there to die does not equate to diminished numbers elsewhere, or an interruption in planning for future terrorism.

At least if we're out of there AND iraq stabilizes we won't be providing them with real life practice on how to run a terrorist campaign in an urban environment.
If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator." —GWB Washington, D.C., Dec. 19, 2000
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Post by DrDetroit »

This poorly planned war is a mistake, yes. If it had been executed with more planning and better equipment, we wouldn't be hearing remarks from top military officials contradicting the vice President.
So the war is not mistake because terrorists are using the war as a training ground? Okay, then what is your point re: Abizaid's comments? That he contradicted Cheney? I don't think he did. Abizaid certainly doesn't think he did, otherwise he would not have made the comments.

So what we have here is you attempting to assert that Abizaid directly contradicted Cheney on this matter. You're wrong.
Shows you that all the propaganda about the insurgency waning was a lie.
What "all the propoganda?"

The insurgency has gone to and from in cycles. Sometimes it wanes, other times it picks up.

No matter though because they are losing.
I expect a little more honesty and forthrightness and less bullshit.
Miss the point?
It would be if it was one.
Just the possibility thast Iraq might become a democratic state has been enough to mobilize nearly the entire Middle East in fighting the US there...
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Post by DrDetroit »

Mister Bushice wrote:It's not panic. The terrorists have been claiming all along that we won't stop them, and it's being proven true.

We need to get out of there ASAP. It's a waste of American lives. As long as we are the occupying force there we are the recruiting tool for terrorists and a training ground for their leaders. Just because they send bodies there to die does not equate to diminished numbers elsewhere, or an interruption in planning for future terrorism.

At least if we're out of there AND iraq stabilizes we won't be providing them with real life practice on how to run a terrorist campaign in an urban environment.
What's been proven true? They're losing thousands upon thousands of people in this "insurgency." What's been proven true?

Did we not topple Saddam's regime? Did we not get local elections underway? Did we not get schools rebuilt and open? Did we not get utilities online and working just as well if not better than pre-war? Did we not see a national election? Are they not working on a Constitution?

What has this insurgency stopped?

And so what if they are using Iraq as a training ground? What is your point? It's better that they die in their training ground than die blowing up American building and landmarks.

And what gives you the impression that Iraq has any chance of stabilizing without US troops there?

Taking your path we would almost immediately see Iraq fall to internal divide and sprout up again with a dictator training terrorists. Props, great idea.

BTW - terrorists were being recruited long before the US invaded Iraq, dumbshit.
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Post by Variable »

We need to get out of there ASAP.
They're supposedly pouring into the country and establishing training camps and we're supposed to LEAVE? And do what, wait for another 9/11?
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Post by Dinsdale »

Variable wrote: And do what, wait for another 9/11?
The Iraq/9-11 connection is always the last gasp of someone flailing.

Where are these Iraqis in the US?

How many Iraqis flew planes on 9/11?



Here, say it with me......Saudis.

The correct answer was Saudis.

I don't hear much clamoring for an invasion of Saudi Arabia? Why is that?
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Post by Variable »

The Iraq/9-11 connection is always the last gasp of someone flailing.

Where are these Iraqis in the US?

How many Iraqis flew planes on 9/11?



Here, say it with me......Saudis.

The correct answer was Saudis.

I don't hear much clamoring for an invasion of Saudi Arabia? Why is that?
The connection wasn't made by me, it was made by our government when they said that terrorists were establishing training camps in Iraq.

I'm not trying to draw parallels other than to say that 9/11 was carried out by terrorists and terrorists are currently being trained in Iraq. You're reading too much into my post and considering you've twice bestowed me with the honor of penning the "dumbest" and or "most retarded" thing you've ever read, I'm really not sure why. :D
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Post by Mister Bushice »

Variable wrote:
We need to get out of there ASAP.
They're supposedly pouring into the country and establishing training camps and we're supposed to LEAVE? And do what, wait for another 9/11?
Let me clarify. We need to turn over surface operations to the Iraqi military asap. I never said we should let our guard down, or end our pursuit of terrorists.
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Post by Variable »

mvscal wrote:
Mister Bushice wrote: We need to turn over surface operations to the Iraqi military asap.
Oddly enough, that's exactly what we're doing.

:roll:
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Post by DrDetroit »

Dins surely doesn't get it.

You see, idiot, prior to 9/11 the US was willing to treat terrorism as a law enforcement issue and that is how we handled it. We didn't use the military to go after terror states.

Then 9/11 happened in which we recognized, for the first time, that terrorist states were willing to export their terrorism outside the Middle East and right to the heart of America. And with it the possibility of terrorists getting wmd's.

With the realization came the philosophical shift. No longer could we tolerate terror states and treat terrorism as merely a law enforcement issue.

Iraq was the first one up because the diplomatic string was stretched to the breaking point. Germany and France were working to repeal the economic sanctions imposed by the UN and the inspection regime had failed in 1998. Hence, the US returned to UN to restart the inspections program and try to get the diplomatic process to work. It failed.

Bush is still working the diplomatic angles with North Korea and Iran and when they reach the point that the administration feels that they have failed, well, hopefull we will not be content to sit around and simply wait for those two regimes to wither away and disappear (as we have been doing thoughout the last several decades).

BTW - the administration never ran the argument that Iraq was directly involved with 9/11. We've covered this before, but since you're so susceptible to myths I understand why you're attached to it.
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Post by BSmack »

DrDetroit wrote:You see, idiot, prior to 9/11 the US was willing to treat terrorism as a law enforcement issue and that is how we handled it. We didn't use the military to go after terror states.
You are an ignorant fuckwad.

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Post by Dinsdale »

DrDetroit wrote:Then 9/11 happened in which we recognized, for the first time, that terrorist states were willing to export their terrorism outside the Middle East and right to the heart of America.
Care to take another poke at that one, dumbass? Making this shit up as you go along?

Or did the WTC only become the "heart of America" post 9/11?
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Post by DrDetroit »

Reagan treated it how? Didn't he abandon Lebanon?

How do you rationalize Reagan saying that?
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Post by Mister Bushice »

Variable wrote:
mvscal wrote:
Mister Bushice wrote: We need to turn over surface operations to the Iraqi military asap.
Oddly enough, that's exactly what we're doing.

:roll:
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Post by Variable »

You are an ignorant fuckwad.

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Post by DrDetroit »

Dinsdale wrote:
DrDetroit wrote:Then 9/11 happened in which we recognized, for the first time, that terrorist states were willing to export their terrorism outside the Middle East and right to the heart of America.
Care to take another poke at that one, dumbass? Making this shit up as you go along?

Or did the WTC only become the "heart of America" post 9/11?
Um, it can reasonable be argued that New York City is the heart of America given that it is the country's financial and cultural centers, idiot.

Do you disagree with that characterization of NYC?

As well, didn't Washington, D.C., the nation's capital, also get attacked on 9/11? Or am I imagining things you ignorant whackjob?
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Post by Dinsdale »

9/11 was the first time terrorists attacked the US, and I'M the whackjob?

Priceless.
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Post by DrDetroit »

No, it wasn't the first time, recall the first WTC bombing, ass.

9/11 was significantly different though from parking a truck in an underground parking garage. Wouldn't you agree?

That airliners were used expanded the opportunity for destruction. namely, rather than simply ramming them inot building, they could be used to transport and detonate wmd's.

Get it, yet?

I see you're trying to nitpik small details. An obvious indication that you do not have a substantive response.
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Post by Dinsdale »

DrDetroit wrote:9/11 was significantly different though THAN parking a truck in an underground parking garage.
FTFY.

YOU said it was the "first." I said it wasn't.

Not much to debate there, but I'm sure you'll find a way.....while I'm golfing.
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Post by Diogenes »

Dinsdale wrote:
Variable wrote: And do what, wait for another 9/11?
The Iraq/9-11 connection is always the last gasp of someone flailing.
The Iraq/9-11 disconnect is the first feeble attempt of the clueless.

Ever hear of Salmon Pak, genius?
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