Moved by me

[SunCoastSooner]

Um, Rossi didn't initiate the recounts in the first place, ass...the state law required it.

Correct. He challenged the recounts themselves, in court....5 fucking times, ass. Sore loser.

Also, you have to admit that the sudden appearance of thousands of prviously unaccounted for ballots from King County was at least suspicious enough to warrant an investigation, right?

Yes. It appeared to be a GOP conspiracy that a bunch of votes went missing in an extremely democratic county. Investigations seemed to reveal that no such conspiracy existed.

Nonetheless, it doesn't matter which way the Court the ruled.

What a fine American you are.

The sudden appearance of all those ballots speaks truth to the fact that the election rigged...no matter what that court said.

Yeah, but fortunately for the people of Washington, the conspirators were defeated. Despite the GOP doing their best to move the hearings to the most redneck counties in the state, with the most conservative judges, even though the VAST majority of the population isn't in those counties. Another example of a political party looking after its own best interest, rather than the best interest of the people they(falsely) claim to represent.

But like I said, Rossi dropped it once the Court ruled against him.

Which time? Your statement is false. He dropped it when he lost. Wasn't the first courtroom bitch'n'fuss that didn't go his way.

Of course the Democratic margin increased...boxes and boxes of ballots just suddenly appeared, asshole.

You're not too smart, are you asshole? In an OVERWHELMINGLY democratic county in which a bunch of misplaced ballots appeared, would you A) Expect for there to be MORE democratic votes, or B) LESS democratic votes?

I know this is a toughy, but THINK.....don't strain yourself.

Oh, and before you even start....those at first THOUSANDS, then later hundreds of felon-cast ballots that the GOP was up in arms about turned out to be a lie. There was a few. "A few" isn't THOUSANDS, unless it's in the GOP's favor, I guess.

And as the recounts went on, and more and more illegal ballots got tossed out, the margin of victory increased. Not sure how you plan on reconciling that with your vast conspiracy theory, and I don't really care. Time to MoveOn, GOP.

Even the dude in charge of the state elections insinuated that lies were told in the uproar, and said they would continue. He didn't point fingers, but he didn't have to.

The irony of it all is rather amazing. Because both parties are doing exactly what the opposite party did in 2000 with the argument over the chads in the ballots (yeah that was us dumbasses here in Florida too Bode: rest of country) and said it would never do if the situations were reversed.

Just think both parties KTOA this time by proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that both are dishonest, full of shit, and do whatever the hell they think will earn them some political points.

Sad that this is the best this country has to offer the people. A choice between nothing and less. Neither side is willing to compromise on anything unless they think it gives them the right to be even more of a dick on something else. Both sides play the game, neither has a monopoly on being dumbasses. I'm a registered (R) but thats only because typicaly they offer the more conservative canidates and I don't want to be "locked" out of voting in primary's (yeah I know I am one of those dumbasses who actualy votes in that crap) and typicaly I vote for the more conservative of canidates. That isn't always the case though; I don't want them to be consrvative to the point of idiocy, and I would prefer someone who isn't a raging bible thumper as well and feels the need to assert their morals on the rest (i.e. Bush).

Oklahoma is a prime example of what I am talking about; what the hell were they thinking when they elected Tom Coburn (R) to to the Senate??? Jesus he had already been a state rep for six years and everyone knew his track record. Hell he told them what he was going to do in Congress!!! And yet he was still elected. I understand the desire to fight pork, then dam well do so but don't screw the people you are supposed to be looking out for the best interests of on some holy crusade. Brad Carson (D) was a conservative Democrat who might not have fought pork with the same zeal as Coburn but he would have represented the best intrests of the people of Oklahoma and a state that has so few representitives in the house can not afford to cut its throat in the senate. Yet that is what they have done and now the Okies will get a nice fat FU from Congress for the next 6 years for it :(. Too busy being afraid of Carson aligning with the Democrats, which I understand the argument for but then why the hell did they nominate him to begin with? Carson had the blessing of Boren and Barry Switzer, what more should you need in the State of Oklahoma the President and the King said to vote for him for God's sake!

Its late and I'm done with my print job so I'm calling it a night. I'd put money on it that if this is still eating at me when I get up that I'll go another nine or ten paragraphs in the morning but right now I am going to go and try and catch three or four hours of shut eye.

[DrDetroit]

No, the Republicans were not acting similarly to the Democrats did in 2000. The Republicans were following the law and challenging the validity of provisional ballots and the magically appearing ballots, while in 2000 the Democrats attempted to change election law after the election was conducted and then attempted to count ballots differently in different counties and then tried to divine the intent of the voter on ballots where no candidate was selected.

[BSmack]

No, the Republicans were not acting similarly to the Democrats did in 2000. The Republicans were following the law and challenging the validity of provisional ballots and the magically appearing ballots, while in 2000 the Democrats attempted to change election law after the election was conducted and then attempted to count ballots differently in different counties and then tried to divine the intent of the voter on ballots where no candidate was selected.

Shut the fuck up Detard. Sooner's right and you fucking know it. Anybody who has been in politics for more than a day knows that it is SOP to challenge results as close as the Washington and Florida results until ALL avenues have been exhausted. Likewise, it is SOP for the presumptive winning party to call the presumptive losers "sore losers" and "obstructionists".

Can you just ONCE take off the fucking blinders?

[DrDetroit]

Yeah, Sooner's "right" because you said so, :roll: .

Anybody who has been in politics for more than a day knows that it is SOP to challenge results as close as the Washington and Florida results until ALL avenues have been exhausted.

1) So how do you explain the lack of challenges in Ohio, Wisonsin, etc.?

2) What "all avenues" are you referring to? If you mean illegal tactics (like counting ballots differently in different counties), well, I disagree, that's not SOP. Don't sully the legitimate challenges out there by equating them with the shit that Gore and Co. pulled in Florida.

Likewise, it is SOP for the presumptive winning party to call the presumptive losers "sore losers" and "obstructionists".

It is? I don't recall the GOP doing that in Florida nor the Dems doing that in Washington state. Do you? I do remember individuals doing it, but not the parties.

But again, you know exactly dick about the party's SOP's re: any election issue.

There is a major distinction between attempting to change the election rules after the election and challenging the validity of felon ballots, provisional ballots, and ballots that appeared after the election was conducted and ballots accounted for.

Talking about blinders, if you were to remove your own you'd certainly agree that such a distinction should be made.

[BSmack]

Yeah, Sooner's "right" because you said so, :roll: .

Roll your eyes all you want bitch.

1) So how do you explain the lack of challenges in Ohio, Wisonsin, etc.?

I'm assuming you're talking about the 04 Presidential race? Ohio wasn't close enough to challenge. Wisconsin wasn't either. Besides, once Kerry conceeded, why would the GOP even bother with Wisconsin?

2) What "all avenues" are you referring to? If you mean illegal tactics (like counting ballots differently in different counties), well, I disagree, that's not SOP. Don't sully the legitimate challenges out there by equating them with the shit that Gore and Co. pulled in Florida.

"Illegal"?

Funny, I don't recall any prosecutions for vote fraud conducted by Jeb Bush and his minions.

It is? I don't recall the GOP doing that in Florida nor the Dems doing that in Washington state. Do you? I do remember individuals doing it, but not the parties.

Obviously you've never heard of "talking points". Which is funny since you spew them damn near every second.

But again, you know exactly dick about the party's SOP's re: any election issue.

5 years of experience on the ground in campaigns over here. How about you fucko?

There is a major distinction between attempting to change the election rules after the election and challenging the validity of felon ballots, provisional ballots, and ballots that appeared after the election was conducted and ballots accounted for. Talking about blinders, if you were to remove your own you'd certainly agree that such a distinction should be made.

You're talking tactics and sematics now. I'm like so impressed.

[DrDetroit]

Roll your eyes all you want bitch.

I am. You're pathetic, B.

I'm assuming you're talking about the 04 Presidential race? Ohio wasn't close enough to challenge. Wisconsin wasn't either. Besides, once Kerry conceeded, why would the GOP even bother with Wisconsin?

But you referred to Standard Operating Procedure, B. If the SOP existed as you asserted it had, then we certainly would have seen such challenges. That we didn't puts the lie to your bullshit theory of a SOP controlling these situations.

"Illegal"?

Funny, I don't recall any prosecutions for vote fraud conducted by Jeb Bush and his minions.

Uh, the USSC ruled that the vote counting method puched by Gore was illegal as it violated the 14th Amendment.

What don't you get about that?

Obviously you've never heard of "talking points". Which is funny since you spew them damn near every second.

:roll:

That somehow proves that the parties run this kind of shit?? Oooookay...

5 years of experience on the ground in campaigns over here. How about you fucko?

Have you worked a Presidential campaign? A congressional campaign? A gubernatorial campaign??

Again, the fact that the SOP as you defined didn't happen puts the lie to your defintion of a SOP.

You're talking tactics and sematics now. I'm like so impressed.

No, I responded to your statement. Rather effectively it appears as you cannot respond.

[BSmack]

And you wonder why people think you suck Detard.

What an absolute pile of rubbish. You clearly don't want to discuss this in any rational form. Otherwise you would have realized straight away that Florida and Washington do not equal Ohio and Wisconsin.

Likewise, need I refer you to Dr. Kissinger about the difference between illegal and unconstitutional? But feel free to butcher the language some more. It's not like anybody besides yourself understands what the fuck you are trying to say

Have you worked a Presidential campaign? A congressional campaign? A gubernatorial campaign??

Yes to all of the above. I've done higher level work on the local level as well.

Are you finished embarassing yourself?

[DrDetroit]

And you consider yourself a rational person, B? You're doom and gloom all the time, dawg.

How is it considered irrational to actually apply what you defined as a SOP?

Of course Ohio and Wisconsin do not equal Florida and Washington. That's what puts the lie to your nonsense re: some standrad operating procedure that has both parties behaving similarly in instances where electoral races are close.

Likewise, need I refer you to Dr. Kissinger about the difference between illegal and unconstitutional?

My bad for not being as precise as I should have been.

Yes to all of the above. I've done higher level work on the local level as well.

Are you finished embarassing yourself?

You mean to tell me that you were involved in something more than passing out buttons, that you were involved with developing the electoral strategies?? :roll:

And this somehow demonstrates that you know that both parties have a standard operating procedure with regards to close electoral races?

Doubtful.

Nonetheless, the fact still remains that Gore and the Democrats attempted to change the elections rules after the election was conducted. That's quite a bit different from challenging the legality of ballots cast by felons and the provisional ballots.

That's qhat I am saying. Feel free to make a fool of yourself suggesting that both parties acted similarly in these two instances.

[SunCoastSooner]

And you consider yourself a rational person, B? You're doom and gloom all the time, dawg.

Yes and you are the George W. Bush equivelent to a Texass fan and Mack Brown and the Sunshine Pumps working overtime for the man. Face he has been screwing up. I still wouldn't trade him for Kerry on his worst day though :(. Thats exactly my point. We either get nothing or less.

[DrDetroit]

SCS, you don't know me. So don't even try to generalize what I might or might not be.

I'm harder on Bush than most the lefties here are precisely because my criticism is reasonale and legitimate. I don't post shit alleging that Bush lied, war for oil, war monger, worst economy since Hoover type of crap.

So you may stfu. Your desire to appear independent or otherwise unbiased is rather a bore.

[SunCoastSooner]

SCS, you don't know me. So don't even try to generalize what I might or might not be.

I'm harder on Bush than most the lefties here are precisely because my criticism is reasonale and legitimate. I don't post shit alleging that Bush lied, war for oil, war monger, worst economy since Hoover type of crap.

So you may stfu. Your desire to appear independent or otherwise unbiased is rather a bore.

You don't post anything critisising Bush. If you have I don't recall reading it thats for damn sure and they are few and far between. And your right I don't know you personally but I know what you post here and to be completly honest atleast 80% of the time I agree with you. I am far from unbiased I vote conservative. Don't feed the bullshit that the Republicans are a conservative party because they aren't any more. Eight years to a decade ago, I'll give you that but since they have taken controll of both the Congress and the White House they have been on a spending spending spree that makes my wife and mother in law at Cordova look tame. The days of Newt pissing people off and keeping the budget on an even keel are dead and gone. The Republicans are quickly becoming the party of Christianity and not the party of conservatism. Believe it or not fiscal conservatism has nothing to with Jesus, God, or St. Peter and personally I don't give a flying rats ass wheather you worship Jesus, Mammon, or the easter bunny but I want a fucking balanced budget, I want people that piss on our shoes to have bombs dropped on them and not Tomahawk missle strikes, Big Bombs that will turn that desolate waistland into a giant Wal Mart Parking Lot. You and BSmack are almost identical on opposite sides of the isle; the biggest difference I see is that Bsmack atleast recognizes that he is a DNC panderer. Bush could take a dump on china and half this country would call it meat Loaf and swallow and the other would swear to God he was trying to commit genocide by using chemical warfare on the Arabs. There is no one willing to meet in the middle ground and call it what it is; a turd on a plate.

Tom Delay, Ted Kennedy, and Barbra Boxer (and thats the short quick list) all need their sorry asses botted out of congress by their constuients. You bitch about me/people taking the middle ground and not voting a straight parrty ticket a bore, ect. I don't really care what your damn opinion on that is. I'm sick of both of these jokes we have for major parties in this country!!! I'm so sick that if in the next presidential election one of these parties doesn't put forth someone I can honest to God feel as though I am voting for a canidate instead of against a canidate then I am going to start "throwing my vote away" by giving it to some poor slouch who doesn't have a snow balls chance in hell but atleast I won't be supporting anymore of this lunacy that has been going on for the last 20 years.

[BSmack]

[I'm so sick that if in the next presidential election one of these parties doesn't put forth someone I can honest to God feel as though I am voting for a canidate instead of against a canidate then I am going to start "throwing my vote away" by giving it to some poor slouch who doesn't have a snow balls chance in hell but atleast I won't be supporting anymore of this lunacy that has been going on for the last 200 years.

ftfy

[Degenerate]

Oklahoma is a prime example of what I am talking about; what the hell were they thinking when they elected Tom Coburn (R) to to the Senate??? Jesus he had already been a state rep for six years and everyone knew his track record. Hell he told them what he was going to do in Congress!!! And yet he was still elected. I understand the desire to fight pork, then dam well do so but don't screw the people you are supposed to be looking out for the best interests of on some holy crusade. Brad Carson (D) was a conservative Democrat who might not have fought pork with the same zeal as Coburn but he would have represented the best intrests of the people of Oklahoma and a state that has so few representitives in the house can not afford to cut its throat in the senate. Yet that is what they have done and now the Okies will get a nice fat FU from Congress for the next 6 years for it :(. Too busy being afraid of Carson aligning with the Democrats, which I understand the argument for but then why the hell did they nominate him to begin with? Carson had the blessing of Boren and Barry Switzer, what more should you need in the State of Oklahoma the President and the King said to vote for him for God's sake!

Carson wasn't enough of a zealot on abortion. Surely you must have seen one of those billboards in OK last October with a picture of a fetus, saying Brad Carson was for killing babies. That issue doomed him. That, and the fact Carson wasn't bare-knuckled enough to come back with the fact that Coburn had performed two more abortions than he did.

Coburn represents Grover Norquist and Steven Moore, btw, not you. At least you have that intellecutal heavyweight James Inhofe. *




*Sorry

[DrDetroit]

You don't post anything critisising Bush. If you have I don't recall reading it thats for damn sure and they are few and far between.

Then you missed the posts re:

NCLB;
Farm bills;
Medicare Rx;
Immigration reform (lack thereof and his amnesty bullshit);
Social Security;
etc.

Hence, then, you were talking out of your ass. Be careful with those sweeping generalizations.

The Republicans are quickly becoming the party of Christianity and not the party of conservatism.

This nonsense about the religious right taking over the GOP is just that nonsense.

And yes, there is a religoous component to American conservatism whether you like it or not.

There is no one willing to meet in the middle ground and call it what it is; a turd on a plate.

Some people see it as black and white and I am one of those people. Compromise means abandoning your ideological principles. Compromise is for weak little bitches.

Bush is being a weak little bitch right now re: social security for example. Unlike his twin tax cut bills where he brought detailed plans to the table and din't bend until the other side did, he didn't being a social security plan to the table and waited for others to do so. In effect he's wasted the opportunity, so far.

Tom Delay, Ted Kennedy, and Barbra Boxer (and thats the short quick list) all need their sorry asses botted out of congress by their constuients.

Why? Their constituents are apparently satisfied with their performance.

[BSmack]

And you consider yourself a rational person, B? You're doom and gloom all the time, dawg.

How is it considered irrational to actually apply what you defined as a SOP?

Of course Ohio and Wisconsin do not equal Florida and Washington. That's what puts the lie to your nonsense re: some standrad operating procedure that has both parties behaving similarly in instances where electoral races are close.

That's an apples and oranges comparison. Florida and Washington were CLOSE ENOUGH to employ recount strategies. Ohio and Wisconsin were not.

Seriously, you're going nowhere with that angle.

My bad for not being as precise as I should have been.

Fair enough.

You mean to tell me that you were involved in something more than passing out buttons, that you were involved with developing the electoral strategies?? :roll:

Yes I do.

And this somehow demonstrates that you know that both parties have a standard operating procedure with regards to close electoral races?

Doubtful.

Yea, I'd say countless conversations re: stategy with members of both parties indicated to me that there was a fairly standard method of dealing with very VERY close elections.

Nonetheless, the fact still remains that Gore and the Democrats attempted to change the elections rules after the election was conducted. That's quite a bit different from challenging the legality of ballots cast by felons and the provisional ballots.

That's qhat I am saying. Feel free to make a fool of yourself suggesting that both parties acted similarly in these two instances.

The exact tactics were slightly different. The strategy was very similar. The idea is to use any and every avenue available short of standing up in a Beer Hall and yelling "Putsch!" Obviously, the GOP couldn't use chads in Washington, so they went another route.

Got it?

[SunCoastSooner]

Oklahoma is a prime example of what I am talking about; what the hell were they thinking when they elected Tom Coburn (R) to to the Senate??? Jesus he had already been a state rep for six years and everyone knew his track record. Hell he told them what he was going to do in Congress!!! And yet he was still elected. I understand the desire to fight pork, then dam well do so but don't screw the people you are supposed to be looking out for the best interests of on some holy crusade. Brad Carson (D) was a conservative Democrat who might not have fought pork with the same zeal as Coburn but he would have represented the best intrests of the people of Oklahoma and a state that has so few representitives in the house can not afford to cut its throat in the senate. Yet that is what they have done and now the Okies will get a nice fat FU from Congress for the next 6 years for it :(. Too busy being afraid of Carson aligning with the Democrats, which I understand the argument for but then why the hell did they nominate him to begin with? Carson had the blessing of Boren and Barry Switzer, what more should you need in the State of Oklahoma the President and the King said to vote for him for God's sake!

Carson wasn't enough of a zealot on abortion. Surely you must have seen one of those billboards in OK last October with a picture of a fetus, saying Brad Carson was for killing babies. That issue doomed him. That, and the fact Carson wasn't bare-knuckled enough to come back with the fact that Coburn had performed two more abortions than he did.

Coburn represents Grover Norquist and Steven Moore, btw, not you. At least you have that intellecutal heavyweight James Inhofe. *




*Sorry

Actaully no I didn't see those. I don't live in Oklahoma (my screen name should give that away) and the most I see of Oklahoma is usualy the route between the airport, my mothers house, and the stadium. Other than that I really don't get out there much anymore :(.

And its Mel Martinez (R), Bill Nelson (D) in the senate and Jeff Miller in the house that represent me and my piers. I have been quite pleased with Jeff MIller and actualy did some volunteer work for his campaign in the last election. I was also a big supporter of Mel Martinez who has been a great disappointment to me :( but was still better than the alternative :? .

[DrDetroit]

B:

That's an apples and oranges comparison. Florida and Washington were CLOSE ENOUGH to employ recount strategies. Ohio and Wisconsin were not.

The recount "strategies?" WTF?

You mean that the results were close enough that the state law requiring a recount was triggered, right?

We are not talking about what the law requires, but the SOP's you allege that the parties operate by in close races.

So what you're saying is that the two parties employ SOP's that only apply when the election results are close enough to trigger automatic recounts. Well, who fucking cares then? So much for you SOP theory.

Yea, I'd say countless conversations re: stategy with members of both parties indicated to me that there was a fairly standard method of dealing with very VERY close elections.

So then what was the SOP for each party?

And how do you account for the very different approaches taken by the two parties in Florida and Washignton state?

The exact tactics were slightly different. The strategy was very similar. The idea is to use any and every avenue available short of standing up in a Beer Hall and yelling "Putsch!" Obviously, the GOP couldn't use chads in Washington, so they went another route.

Would the SOP's be anything other than using all available methods?

The issue in Washington was nothing related to voter error.

[Degenerate]

Actaully no I didn't see those. I don't live in Oklahoma (my screen name should give that away)

And its Mel Martinez (R), Bill Nelson (D) in the senate and Jeff Miller in the house that represent me and my piers.

Here comes Katherine Harris...