Innocent Bystander wrote: ↑Sun Nov 05, 2023 11:23 am
poptart wrote: ↑Sun Nov 05, 2023 10:47 am
IB wrote:m2 is Jewish, and doesn't mean Christ or the body of believers when he says Israel. He means the secular theocracy, the nation-state which currently exists in the material plane.
There is no truth in that Israel. It was built on a foundation of lies, and expands its borders upon further lies. There is only death, decay and ruin in following the State of Israel.
Yes.
The nation of Israel will continue to suffer, and those who do not recognize will continue to suffer.
War will not cease in Israel.
Age-by-age, there has always been a remnant who recognized.
Isaiah 10:20-21
Romans 9:26-27
Those who do not recognize what? With Israel, we all suffer. Israel has the world's biggest persecution complex, and the nukes -- and military policy -- to make sure everyone pays for whatever imagined slight Israel pretends it has suffered this month.
Isaiah 10:20
And it shall come to pass in that day, that the remnant of Israel, and such as are escaped of the house of Jacob, shall no more again stay upon him that smote them; but shall stay upon the Lord, the Holy One of Israel, in truth.
21 The remnant shall return, even the remnant of Jacob, unto the mighty God.
- Who smote whom?
- I think verse 21 is talking about returning to God, not to a physical place? There is nothing holy about Israel. All of the calls to return physically are what Jesus warned against: worrying about the appearance of a cup but not the contents of the cup. Israel is a nation of pedophiles, pornographers, police state supremacists, thieves and dual agent traitors. No amount of rebuilding a temple can fix that.
- How many remnants are referenced here, in verse 21?
Romans 9:26
And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:
A remnant, not all of them? This is confusing. Please explain this verse.
Those who do not recognize that the Messiah has come will suffer and remain in Satan's darkness.
Jesus, speaking to the Pharisees said, "
You search the Scriptures (the Old Testament) because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me."
John 5:39
Isaiah 10:20, who smote whom?
The Israelites have been "smote" throughout their existence.
Because they have, with relatively few exceptions,
continually snubbed their nose at God's covenant of love toward them.
One exception was the time of Samuel.
See 1Samuel 7, and note particularly verses 12-14.
Remnant can be used as singular or plural.
How many remnants are referenced in Isaiah 10:21?
Isaiah (God) is certainly not speaking of all of "Israel" returning to God.
A relatively small number recognize the Messiah.
See what Jesus says in John 10:27-28.
The same for Romans 9:26-27.
When Paul says that "all Israel shall be saved (Romans 11:26)," he is speaking about
true Israel.
True Israel are those who are inside the victory of Jesus Christ, the Messiah, the Covenant, the King of the Jews who has broken the authority of Satan.
Jeremiah 31:31-34
31 Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah,
32 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord.
33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, Know the Lord, for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.