"West Coast" offenses

DrDetroit · Post by **DrDetroit** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:59 pm

I am a disgruntled Lions fan and I want to blame this offensive scheme

How successful has the West Coast offense been in the NFL?

For the Lions -- totally unsuccessful.

The QB rarely throws downfield, hence, the defensive box is filled up.

The running game is horrible despite having one of the better backs in the league, imo.

Is the usual for west coast offenses?

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 7:07 pm

Ever heard of the San Francisco 49ers?

I mean back when they were good.

The Green Bay Packers?

The Philadelphia Eagles?

All have used variants of the "West Coast" scheme.

Your GM is a moron and your starting QB is not capable of leading this offense.

drummer · Post by **drummer** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 7:11 pm

BSmack wrote:Ever heard of the San Francisco 49ers?

I mean back when they were good.

The Green Bay Packers?

The Philadelphia Eagles?

All have used variants of the "West Coast" scheme.

Your GM is a moron and your starting QB is not capable of leading this offense.

You could add Seattle , Denver , and Tampa , for a few more teams with who base the offense on the WCO .

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 7:43 pm

Roger Craig seemed to do pretty as a RB in the WCO. Had at least one 1,000 - 1,000 yard season as I recall.

DrDetroit · Post by **DrDetroit** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 7:52 pm

I wasn't sure that we'd include Philly on that list. SF, ok. GB, though?

I'm not talking about using variants or incorporating some schemes, but wholesale adoption of this wretched thing called the West Coast offense.

SF certainly, but not Philly and GB.

drummer · Post by **drummer** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 7:54 pm

Mikey wrote:Roger Craig seemed to do pretty as a RB in the WCO. Had at least one 1,000 - 1,000 yard season as I recall.

Yep .

But Moochie brought a solid running game to the Niners when he was HC here . I forgot which team they were playing against on a Monday night , but all Steve Young did was hand the ball off , and they dominated just using the ground game , with few passes .

But , you need a good QB with a solid understanding of the WCO . Hell , even Steve Bono looked great in that system .

The WCO works . Look at how many championship teams have used it .

DrDetroit · Post by **DrDetroit** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:07 pm

Drummer, I was going in the opposite direction re: the WCO. I am ready to condemn that thing to the grave, but I forgot about the Steve Young-led Niners teams, the Holmgren era in GB, etc.

So, for the Lions, it's just a matter of personnel, i.e., QB and OL.

BBMarley · Post by **BBMarley** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:15 pm

DrDetroit wrote:I wasn't sure that we'd include Philly on that list. SF, ok. GB, though?

I'm not talking about using variants or incorporating some schemes, but wholesale adoption of this wretched thing called the West Coast offense.

SF certainly, but not Philly and GB.

Why would you not include Philly?

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:43 pm

DrDetroit wrote:Drummer, I was going in the opposite direction re: the WCO. I am ready to condemn that thing to the grave, but I forgot about the Steve Young-led Niners teams, the Holmgren era in GB, etc.

So, for the Lions, it's just a matter of personnel, i.e., QB and OL.

I think you forgot about the Joe Montana led Niners teams as well.
Seems like you forgot about a lot of things.

DrDetroit · Post by **DrDetroit** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:52 pm

No, I just never thought of those Niner's teams as WCO teams.

But take your cheap shots, Mikey...that's really all you have.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 9:17 pm

DrDetroit wrote:No, I just never thought of those Niner's teams as WCO teams.
But take your cheap shots, Mikey...that's really all you have.

You really are a fucking idiot, then. Who do you think invented it?

Almost every coach that runs it either was an assistant in SF or worked for a coach who came from there. At the top of the pyramid sits Bill Walsh.

M2 · Post by M2 » Mon Nov 07, 2005 9:20 pm

Mikey wrote:
DrDetroit wrote:No, I just never thought of those Niner's teams as WCO teams.
But take your cheap shots, Mikey...that's really all you have.
You really are a fucking idiot, then. Who do you think invented it?

The west coast offense doesn't really work that well with a tennis ball...

Sin,

DrDetard

m2

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 9:24 pm

By Jon Gruden

...The term West Coast offense is one of the most commonly used descriptions in football. What is it? It is the San Francisco 49ers' offense of the mid-1980s to early 1990s, a split-back attack in which you have multiple formations and different launching spots for the quarterbacks.

I've never been clear on where the "West Coast" designation came from.

In terms of the original, there was a lot of motion and a lot of plays that started off looking the same but were different. You would throw to the flanker, use the split end away from rotation, and have the tight end dominate the field in the middle.

The running attack was diverse, with a lot of traps, pulls, and counters. Very deceptive. I worked for the 49ers as a low-level intern for eight months in 1990 -- one of my jobs was to get coffee for George Seifert -- so I suppose that brands me as a "West Coast" guy.

When Mike Holmgren went from an assistant in San Francisco to head coach in Green Bay, that made him a "West Coast" guy. He used to wonder aloud how you could possibly run a West Coast offense in Wisconsin. Paul Hackett worked with the 49ers and then went to Dallas and he was a "West Coast" guy. Mike Shanahan left the 49ers for Denver so he was a "West Coast" guy.

Since Steve Mariucci, Andy Reid, Mike Sherman, and myself all worked for Mike Holmgren in Green Bay, we're all "West Coast" guys. Marty Mornhinweg worked in Green Bay with Holmgren and in San Francisco with Steve Mariucci, so he's a "West Coast" guy. Denny Green worked for San Francisco and then Brian Billick worked for Denny Green, so they're both "West Coast" guys.

drummer · Post by **drummer** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 1:56 am

DrDetroit wrote:No, I just never thought of those Niner's teams as WCO teams.

But take your cheap shots, Mikey...that's really all you have.

Geez dude , you've KYOA big time here .

Don't blame Mikey for being awake in the 80's .

Dumbass .

WCO

DrDetroit · Post by **DrDetroit** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 7:56 pm

Drummer, my point was that I just wasn't aware of the 80s Niner teams being a WCO team. Look, until yesterday, I thought that the WCO was a relatively recent thing.

So I don't think it is a matter of kicking my own ass...I simply didn't know much about it.

JHawkBCD · Post by **JHawkBCD** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 8:07 pm

DrDetroit wrote:Drummer, my point was that I just wasn't aware of the 80s Niner teams being a WCO team. Look, until yesterday, I thought that the WCO was a relatively recent thing.

So I don't think it is a matter of kicking my own ass...I simply didn't know much about it.

True, you don't know much about it, but since when has that ever stopped you from kicking your own ass? And... make no mistake about it... you have definitely kicked your own ass from the start to the inevitably painful finish of this abortion of a thread that you started.

DrDetroit · Post by **DrDetroit** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 8:21 pm

By saying that the Lions suck and that it is because of Mooch's bullshit WCO...yeah, that's kicking my ass, :roll: .

But, hey, it's not at all surprising to see the circle jerk clique show up to pile on.

Keep torquing each other off, faggots.

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 8:29 pm

DrDetroit wrote:Drummer, my point was that I just wasn't aware of the 80s Niner teams being a WCO team. Look, until yesterday, I thought that the WCO was a relatively recent thing.

So I don't think it is a matter of kicking my own ass...I simply didn't know much about it.

Which is why you should STFU and read a whole lot more.

Idiot.

drummer · Post by **drummer** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 8:30 pm

DrDetroit wrote:By saying that the Lions suck and that it is because of Mooch's bullshit WCO...yeah, that's kicking my ass, :roll: .

But, hey, it's not at all surprising to see the circle jerk clique show up to pile on.

Keep torquing each other off, faggots.

Dude , come on now . Not knowing what your team is about , and complaining about thier offensive philosophy , while not knowing that the WCO has been in practice for almost 30 years , while not knowing that the Niners used it for that period of time , and melting about it in an NFL forum ......

All the while deflecting your ignorance from the ensuing pile-on ...

Classic .

Hey , did you know that Millen once wore a Niner jersey ?

That Mohrenwiegh was hired because of his WCO background ?

That Moochie was hired because of that as well ?

You call yourself a Lion fan ?

drummer · Post by **drummer** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 8:32 pm

mvscal wrote:
Mikey wrote:
DrDetroit wrote:No, I just never thought of those Niner's teams as WCO teams.
But take your cheap shots, Mikey...that's really all you have.
You really are a fucking idiot, then. Who do you think invented it?

Paul Brown?

You can add ATL to the list , because Knapp is a disciple of it , and NO as well .

DrDetroit · Post by **DrDetroit** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 8:36 pm

Drummer, I know where Millen came from and why Mooch is here in Detroit. But keep projecting all you want.

It's been how many years here in Detroit since it adopted the WCO style and what have the results been?

It's a failure here in Detroit.

Now, of the last several SB champions...how many have used the WCO? This is a serious inquiry and I'm not trying to bag on the WCO generally.

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 8:38 pm

CHRIST MAN, STOP POSTING AND READ THE CHART!

Headhunter · Post by **Headhunter** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 8:43 pm

Dude, eject. Seriously. You couldn't look any more retarded if you had set out trying.

It won't get better. It'll only get worse.

Any NFL fan worth his salt at the very least would equate the WCO offense to Walsh and the 49'ers.

Did you just start watching football this year? Last year? Are you over the age of 10?

Dude, time to bail on this thread.

drummer · Post by **drummer** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 8:43 pm

mvscal wrote:
drummer wrote:You can add ATL to the list ,
Take another look at Vick's completion percentage and guess again.

They do use it .

Execution is a different story though .

drummer · Post by **drummer** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 8:45 pm

DrDetroit wrote:Drummer, I know where Millen came from and why Mooch is here in Detroit. But keep projecting all you want.

It's been how many years here in Detroit since it adopted the WCO style and what have the results been?

It's a failure here in Detroit.

Now, of the last several SB champions...how many have used the WCO? This is a serious inquiry and I'm not trying to bag on the WCO generally.

Well , just in the past 10 years : SF , Denver , Tampa , GB .

DrDetroit · Post by **DrDetroit** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 8:49 pm

Fuck you, HH and fucking eat a bullet. This was a good faith fucking thread. No wonder threads here quickly degenerate into petty name calling, sheesh.

I'm not the type of fan that sits there and focuses in on the coach's philosophy nor do I fucking care. For me, the phrase WCO recently became a buzz word. Call me fucking ignorant, call me a child, whatthefuckever.

It don't fucking matter. My Lions suck and the WCO has been a miserable failure here, plain and simple and that cannot be argued any other way. Mooch didn't deserve the contract he got in coming here as his success in SF was limited, at best. Millen hasn't done any fucking better by sticking with a loser QB insisting that Joey is the man while letting the O-line completely disintegrate. Meanwhile, Mooch basically ignores the best running back we have to chase that all-elusive 40% completion rate... :roll: That was the fucking point.

Now, how about an insight into the SB-related question I had. Are these teams running pure WCO's? How did they make it work while we see Detroit failing miserably?

Feel free to pile on dumbfucks...I'm used to it and it ain't going to deter me. I'm a disgruntled fan...

DrDetroit · Post by **DrDetroit** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 8:49 pm

drummer wrote:
mvscal wrote:
drummer wrote:You can add ATL to the list ,
Take another look at Vick's completion percentage and guess again.
They do use it .

Execution is a different story though .

So it's been a failure in Atlanta, too...got it.

drummer · Post by **drummer** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 8:51 pm

DrDetroit wrote:
drummer wrote:
mvscal wrote: Take another look at Vick's completion percentage and guess again.
They do use it .

Execution is a different story though .
So it's been a failure in Atlanta, too...got it.

Tell me ATL's W-L record has been the past 2 years .

JHawkBCD · Post by **JHawkBCD** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 8:55 pm

DrDetroit wrote:

[stream]http://www.opheliagroove.com/audio/wav/dorkalert.wav[/stream]

drummer · Post by **drummer** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 8:58 pm

DrDetroit wrote:Fuck you, HH and fucking eat a bullet. This was a good faith fucking thread. No wonder threads here quickly degenerate into petty name calling, sheesh.

I'm not the type of fan that sits there and focuses in on the coach's philosophy nor do I fucking care. For me, the phrase WCO recently became a buzz word. Call me fucking ignorant, call me a child, whatthefuckever.

It don't fucking matter. My Lions suck and the WCO has been a miserable failure here, plain and simple and that cannot be argued any other way. Mooch didn't deserve the contract he got in coming here as his success in SF was limited, at best. Millen hasn't done any fucking better by sticking with a loser QB insisting that Joey is the man while letting the O-line completely disintegrate. Meanwhile, Mooch basically ignores the best running back we have to chase that all-elusive 40% completion rate... :roll: That was the fucking point.

Now, how about an insight into the SB-related question I had. Are these teams running pure WCO's? How did they make it work while we see Detroit failing miserably?

Feel free to pile on dumbfucks...I'm used to it and it ain't going to deter me. I'm a disgruntled fan...

Fukk dude , we don't have to explain football here for you now , do we ?

Ok , just look at one team : The Oakland Raiders . Look at what the offense did with Gruden , Callahan , and Gannon .

Now look at it with Turner , Moss , and Collins .

DrDetroit · Post by **DrDetroit** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 9:03 pm

Help a retard out, eh???

What did the Raiders do? Did they win a SB? Did they win a Conference Championship? How many playoff games did they win?

Seriously, how many of these teams are using pure WCO's?

DrDetroit · Post by **DrDetroit** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 9:13 pm

Missed it, thanks.

And Mooch ain't running some new hybrid version of it and he ain't mixing it up...he's been running a straight up WCO since he got here...time for the Lions to abandon that bullshit and get back to rushing the fucking football. Can you believe that Kevin Jones averages just over 2 yards per carry and rarely exceeds 25 touches game? Fuck this WCO bullshit.

Headhunter · Post by **Headhunter** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 9:14 pm

You can scream" fuck you, HH" all you want. it won't change the way this thread will play out.

Start here and get back to us when you get to the part about them throwing the ball. We can pick it up from there.

DrDetroit · Post by **DrDetroit** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 9:17 pm

^^^^Funny post.

Nonetheless, I don't need some fucking football elitist discouraging me from asking questions no matter how inane they may seem.

It's no wonder your fucking precious forum draws no new blood.

Red · Post by **Red** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 9:17 pm

Now, how about an insight into the SB-related question I had. Are these teams running pure WCO's?

It's hard for anyone "outside" of football to say if a team has run a pure WCO since Bill Walsh invented it. I'm sure every team that runs/has run it has made some slight modifications based on players' talent, but the basic premise remains a quick, precision-based passing game (as opposed to a vertical, stretch the field, attack).

How did they make it work while we see Detroit failing miserably?

You answered your own question here:

DrDetroit wrote:Mooch didn't deserve the contract he got in coming here as his success in SF was limited, at best. Millen hasn't done any fucking better by sticking with a loser QB insisting that Joey is the man while letting the O-line completely disintegrate. Meanwhile, Mooch basically ignores the best running back we have to chase that all-elusive 40% completion rate... :roll: That was the fucking point.

No matter what the system is, a totally fucked front office plus a shitty offensive line and a lousy quarterback will always yield a losing team.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 9:41 pm

DrDetroit wrote:What did the Raiders do? Did they win a SB? Did they win a Conference Championship? How many playoff games did they win?

:?

Red · Post by **Red** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 10:05 pm

poptart wrote:
DrDetroit wrote:What did the Raiders do? Did they win a SB? Did they win a Conference Championship? How many playoff games did they win?
:?

Fucking elitist.

JHawkBCD · Post by **JHawkBCD** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 10:07 pm

Red wrote: No matter what the system is, a totally fucked front office plus a shitty offensive line and a lousy quarterback will always yield a losing team.

No shit. I blame it all on Bush.

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 10:13 pm

DrDetroit wrote:^^^^Funny post.

Nonetheless, I don't need some fucking football elitist discouraging me from asking questions no matter how inane they may seem.

It's no wonder your fucking precious forum draws no new blood.

We've got it all over the floor today. Put a maxi pad on that gash.

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 10:14 pm

Red wrote: No matter what the system is, a totally fucked front office plus a shitty offensive line and a lousy quarterback will always yield a losing team.

The Lions certainly have the receivers for it.......too bad they don't have anybody to throw to all of those #1 guys........

note to HH: please refrain from being an "elitist"

TIA