There are no moral victories: Bullshit!

[Degenerate]

PSA for Van: It's my understanding that ESPN Classic is rebroadcasting the game tonight at 8:00 CST. In case you wanted to get all excited again, and stuff.

My God, yet another recruting coup for Fresno State! Could it possibly get any better for this heretofore unknown institution?

-Van

[PSUFAN]

[Van]

Dins, catching me in a "then/than" typo is not only rare, it's also pointless.

now Van, which team do you think gets higher television ratings....Tenn, or USC...think hard now.

Ummm, okay....

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#1 ranked USC, by a longshot, especially here in California where Fresno State does the bulk of their recruiting.

Remember, we're talking about Fresno State here?

A Tennesse-Ole Miss (or even Tennessee-Fresno State) game isn't going to get nearly the ratings in California of a USC-Fresno State game.

Dins, take a bow. That might've been the stupidest thing you've ever posted.

[Dinsdale]

That might've been the stupidest thing you've ever posted.

You don't really think you're in any position to judge whether a post is stupid or not at this juncture, do you?

Before you answer, bear in mind that you are the one who said that Fresno is going to try and schedule tougher in the coming years...even though it was pointed out to you that they opened the 2001 season with 3 teams that finished in or near the top 10 the year prior?

So, FSU is opening with Texas, USC, and Penn Sate next season? Or are they stepping way up and scheduling the Colts and the Steelers next year?

Saty down, Van...just stay down.

[Van]

Dins, your self flagellation act isn't impressive. You can keep declaring vicotry for yourself all you want but I'm not the least bit impressed by a damn thing you've said so far.

The only true points you've made so far were only noteworthy to you. To anybody else it didn't need to be stated as it didn't advance your cause. I'd already taken into account FSU's previous schedules and your entire troll is based on what you already know is some lame attempt to paint me as being new to CF, even though though I've probably been following CF longer than you've been alive.

You keep avoiding my point, which is that FSU under Pat Hill is scheduling better now than they did before his arrival and they're looking to continue that trend. I said their program is going to be stronger five years from now than it was five years ago and if you take that out to seven or ten years (at the rate they're going now) it's even more true.

FSU's previous national tv exposure against a #1 team was a thorough asskicking at the hands of OU in 2003. This time, they nearly won.

Moreover, I said that their showing against #1 USC on (semi) national tv will prove to be nothing but a boon to their recruiting.

I stand by all these things as they're all correct. Meanwhile, you're too busy sucking your own dick and lamely jumping on "then/than" typos to realize just how stupid some of your statements in this thread have been...

-"FSU playing on national tv and doing well against USC DOESN'T advance their program!"

Sorry dumbass but playing on national tv helps your program, period, and it especially helps your program when you rarely get such an opportunity. Playing on national tv and doing well against #1 USC really helps your program, especially insofar as your California recruiting base is concerned.

-"USC doesn't have the tv ratings of Tennessee!"

Oh really? This year? The last three years, and especially in FSU's prime recruiting target area, California? Here in central California (much less the far more target rich southern California area, which also happens to be home to USC) Tennessee is a bigger tv draw than USC?

USC-FSU on tv isn't a bigger recruiting tool for FSU than anything involving Tennessee??

Your troll has sucked all along but any semblance of viability it was attempting to maintain died right there.

[stuckinia]

Maybe it was a moral victory considering the way they are mailing in the first half versus Nevada.

[SoCalTrjn]

considering that there are more people in Los Angeles alone than the entire state of Tennessee, Id say a game vs USC will get them higher TV ratings

[Goober McTuber]

Van,

Your original post was not about Pat Hill's aggressive scheduling, but rather how this loss would help Fresno recruit all these California high schoolers who really weren't aware of the program. I think that premise got soundly knocked down. BTW, Fresno looks to be well on the way to another moral victory tonight.

[Dinsdale]

Yeah, but now Fresno is going to have to compete for those same fringe-recruits with Stanford, who scored one hell of a moral victory this evening.

[Mikey]

I hear Stanford is going to try and schedule tougher next season and go after Nevada instead of UC Davis.

[Adelpiero]

Yeah, but now Fresno is going to have to compete for those same fringe-recruits with Stanford, who scored one hell of a moral victory this evening.

Rack Dins

[Degenerate]

Look, forget the Nevada loss. Being on regional TV against USC was already the greatest recruiting tool in the world for Fresno State. That valiant performance against the wonderful, incomparable, goshdurn special Trojans will be forever seared on the mind of every second-tier recruit from La Jolla to Redding. I hear the Bulldogs have really stepped up their scheduling, too, so goodbye Nevada and hello Pac-10 competition. I can't wait to see how they fare against the rest of the league!

And it's not like anyone gets to see their other games, even if two or three of them are on ESPN every single year. They're all watching the Trojans like I am.

-Van

[PSUFAN]

I hear Stanford is going to try and schedule tougher next season and go after Nevada instead of UC Davis.

heh heh

[Van]

Degenerate, are you seriously going to try and compare the recruiting impact of an ESPN game pitting Fresno State and some WAC team with a televised Fresno State/USC game?

See, that was the original premise...

A great effort on tv against the most glamorous program in the nation, a team who happens to be located right in the middle of your recruiting hotbed, well, that equates to a boon in recruiting.

Anybody who disputes this is an idiot.

Compared to the impact of the USC game their hangover loss last night to Nevada isn't even going to be a blip on the radar. They'd already inked the Liberty Bowl deal before they even took the field last night...

As for Notre Dame-Stanford those two teams meet every year so it'd only be the very rare occasion when one team could ever gain any moral victories in a loss...

This definitely wasn't one of those occasions.

[Dinsdale]

Van, since you just won't quit, let's examine some facts, shall we?

First, we'll take it as a given that a recruit from SoCal is familiar with Fresno (despite your absolutely absurd contention that they aren't). As I already stated, most prep football players who have a shot at the next level are fairly passionate about the game. And unlike yourself, those passionate kids are mostly quite familiar with Fresno's program. Familiar enough, in fact, to have followed along (this is going to be a big suprise to you, but many of those passionate-about-football kids inherit it from their fathers/uncles/older brothers) Fresno's trials and tribulations over the last few seasons.

And let's look at those seasons the "giant killers" have had since 1999, shall we?

Since 1999, Fresno has played 21 games against teams from BCS conferences. Their record in those 21 games is 9-12. Of those 9, precisely one of those teams finished in the top 25 when all was said and done...one(Colorado).

Back to the part that you just don't get...you assume that your ignorance is shared by those recruits you speak of. Huge assumption, and quite wrong. Most of the recruits of whom you speak, believe it or not, are going to do a little homework and see what is there, out in the open.

This HUGE-MEGA-ALMOST-WIN that you somehow believe singlehandedly turned recruiting around at FSU was just completely negated by losing to a mid-conference chump the next week. They went 0-2 vs the PAC, and went 0-1 vs WAC teams that were woth a shit. Some recruiting coup there, eh?

Now, since anyone with any common sense would tell you that whatever recruiting advantages were gained by a decent showing against SC last week just went completely out the window this week, it negates the entire premise of your argument. This should be all of the evidence you need to see, that beyond all shadow of doubt, that YOU WERE WRONG (that, and the concensus laughter at your expense).

See now, if letter-of-intent day was this previous week, your point might be valid. But 'round these parts, it wasn't. Whe letter-of-intent day rolls around, Fresno is just another team that lost to every decent team they played. (although Hawaii is going to be a BEAST in the coming years, they're not there yet). Spin this into some major recruiting boon however you like, but you're only talking in circles. It just didn't work out that way.

"Hey Dad! I decided I'm going to go to that one school that almost had a decent game on TV that one time...screw those BCS schools. I someday would like a chance at maybe someday playing for a team that might get the chance at getting its ass handed to it by USC, and every other decent team they play!"

Yeah, that's a realistic scenario, Vannar. But keep reinforcing your worthless point...I think at least you're almost starting to believe it.

[Adelpiero]

^^^^^^^^^

Ouch




:D

[Van]

Van, since you just won't quit, let's examine some facts, shall we?

I see you're still skipping right past your positively stupid assertion that Tennessee is a bigger tv draw than USC, especially in California.

Smart...

First, we'll take it as a given that a recruit from SoCal is familiar with Fresno (despite your absolutely absurd contention that they aren't).

You'll take it as a given, but why? What evidence do you have to support such a "given"?

How many inner city kids from L.A. do you know, Dins? How many kids from Fountain Valley? How much have they told you about FSU over the years??

Being "aware of" and/or "familiar with" and "following closely" are two very different things.

You're simply pulling shit out of your ass. I grew up in L.A., one of the prime recruiting hotbeds in all of the nation.

Fresno State has always been a mere after thought at best in terms of the southern (or even northern) California sports scene.

NOBODY who wasn't directly connected to their program ever followed them all that closely, and certainly not with anything like the interest in any of the Pac 10 schools.

FSU has traditionally recruited from the Central Valley and from the remaining Californian scraps left over by the Pac 10, San Diego State and BYU. The better recruits in California who weren't playing for Clovis West have never pined away to play in Fresno, assuming they knew about the program at all...

Your entire argument is based on an assumptive fallacy based on your own desire to support your all important self image as Uber Internet Geek.

As I already stated, most prep football players who have a shot at the next level are fairly passionate about the game.

The game, yes, Fresno State football, no, especially not if you go back more than five years. Hell, until Trent Dilfer and then David Carr played there FSU might as well've been Utah State to the average southern California recruit.

Recruits from outside of the Central Valley used to go to FSU because they had to, not because it was anything like their first or even second choice.

Again, it's Fresno...

And unlike yourself, those passionate kids are mostly quite familiar with Fresno's program. Familiar enough, in fact, to have followed along (this is going to be a big suprise to you, but many of those passionate-about-football kids inherit it from their fathers/uncles/older brothers) Fresno's trials and tribulations over the last few seasons.

Last few, maybe. Go back much further than that and nope, you're dreaming. Like I said, their development has occured in the last five or so years, and they'll be better in five and even ten years then they were five and ten years ago.

Besides, in FSU's entire history they'd never played as big of a game as the one they played two weeks ago. Their bowl win in '92 over a dogshit USC team was a yawner that was deemed so horrible by USC that they fired Larry Smith over losing to FSU.

Nobody gave FSU a chance (and, as it turned out, rightly so) against OU in '03.

This one, this was different. They came in ranked #16 and with only one loss and while not too many people really expected a win against USC the feeling was at least that FSU was on the doorstep of actually having arrived as a legitimate program that's ready to be taken seriously nationally. Unlike the OU game they came in expecting to do well here. They expected to validate themselves.

This is from Pat Hill's mouth, btw, along with some of his players, and it was said both before and after the game.

FSU wasn't like this ten years ago.

And let's look at those seasons the "giant killers" have had since 1999, shall we?

Since 1999, Fresno has played 21 games against teams from BCS conferences. Their record in those 21 games is 9-12. Of those 9, precisely one of those teams finished in the top 25 when all was said and done...one(Colorado).

All of which only serves to further underscore my point that such a fine showing against the #1 team in the nation was a HUGE game for their program.

Whose side are you arguing here anyway??

Back to the part that you just don't get...you assume that your ignorance is shared by those recruits you speak of. Huge assumption, and quite wrong.

Prove it. You have no way of knowing and the results from the recruiting wars over the years supports the idea that you're dead wrong.

Up until very recently FSU has never been anywhere near the top of most any California kid's wish list. Thye've been nothing but a "fall back" program...

You though, you're The Champion Of The Internet!! You, being fully immersed in the minds of thousands of kids you've never met, your geek-ish self image is wholly predicated on KNOWING and SPOUTING what kids know!

You even KNOW that USC isn't a bigger tv draw than Tennessee, even to FSU Fan!!

Man, you need to grow up and shut up.

Most of the recruits of whom you speak, believe it or not, are going to do a little homework and see what is there, out in the open.

They're going to go first with what they know, and what they know across most of California is Pac 10 football, plus all the other glamour teams across the nation.

The average kid in Compton couldn't name you five players who ever went to FSU. All he knows or even cares to know about Fresno is it's that sorry redneck place in Biker Boyz where L.A. knuckleheads ride their pimped out ATV's to so they can watch the 'Busa/ZX12R races...

(Now, obviously, I also don't know what each kid knows about Fresno, same as you don't know. I'm kidding there. Thing is, I'm probably not that far off and the recruiting wars over the years pretty much bear this out...)

This HUGE-MEGA-ALMOST-WIN that you somehow believe singlehandedly turned recruiting around at FSU

Never said any such thing. Nice try though.

was just completely negated by losing to a mid-conference chump the next week.

Hardly. Any kid with the knowledge of how FSU did against USC is at least also smart enough to not put too much stock in some relatively nondescript game the following week.

The USC game showed FSU in a different light for that kid. That was a door opener, for some. How many? Who knows, but it certainly has to help...

They went 0-2 vs the PAC, and went 0-1 vs WAC teams that were woth a shit. Some recruiting coup there, eh?

Now imagine how blah FSU would look to those kids without that televised game against USC...

Again, you're no good at debate so please quit arguing my points for me. I have to be suspect of my own positions when you keep agreeing with me like this....

Now, since anyone with any common sense would tell you that whatever recruiting advantages were gained by a decent showing against SC last week just went completely out the window this week, it negates the entire premise of your argument. This should be all of the evidence you need to see, that beyond all shadow of doubt, that YOU WERE WRONG (that, and the concensus laughter at your expense).

You're truly an idiot if you think the Nevada game trumps the televised USC game in terms of recruiting. You're just powerfully stupid, actually, if that's what you think.

[Dinsdale]

Your entire argument is based on an assumptive fallacy based on your own desire to support your all important self image as Uber Internet Geek.

Reread this a few times, and see if you can answer this question:

Why am I laughing so hard at you right now?


Matter of fact, that's sig material, right there.

Some things never change...give Van enough rope, and he'll hang himself. Mission accomplished.

[Van]

Fuck it. I'll punt.

[Dinsdale]

Aaaand another doozy --

You're truly an idiot if you think the Nevada game trumps the televised USC game in terms of recruiting. You're just powerfully stupid, actually, if that's what you think.

OK, so by YOUR logic, kid is sitting at home, mulling over where he's going to school, since USC, tOSU, et al aren't knocking his door down. Kid then says to himself "Damn, the Fresno program that I knew nothing about looks like it's bursting on to the scene. Maybe I should go there. Hey, looky here...there's another Fresno game on this saturday! Since I'm interested in going there, I think I'll watch it."

Later that night...

"OK, that does it...it's settled. I'm going there FOR SURE NOW, BABY!!!"

You're truly an idiot if you think it doesn't. That kid is now heading for Reno, where the Wine, Women, and Song will flow a lot more than at Fresno. And since (by your logic, still) that same kid presumably knew little about Nevada before saturday night, he now sees it as even more of an up-and-comer.

[Dinsdale]

Fuck it. I'll punt.

Jeebus dude, just post the hugemeltdown.jpg and be done with it. Actually, you should get in a few more cracks about my debating abilities before you do.

[Van]

Dins, in the VAST number of cases it's actually going to go down more like this...

~SoCal college recruit is sitting home with his boys and their ho's, watching tv...~

"Bitch, get off my nutz. Hey, G, who is USC playing this week?"

"Fresno"

"Fuck it, let's watch it anyway..."

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"Dayum! Look at Fresno punking USC!!"

~One week later...SoCal college recruit is sitting at home with his boys and their ho's, watching tv...~

"Bitch, how many times I gotta tell you to get off my nutz when we're gonna watch football? Hey, who is USC playing this week?"

"Nobody. They got a bye."

"UCLA?"

"They got a bye too."

"Anybody else on?"

"Yeah, Notre Dame vs Stanford."

"Fuck it. Where's the X-Box??"

The FSU-Nevada game wasn't televised in most SoCal households so SoCal college recruit never even saw the game. His one lasting memory of FSU this season was their televised game against USC, a game which surprised the hell out of him...

[Atomic Punk]

Actually, FSU pulls most of its recruits out of the central valley since the Sweeney days. L.A. and the deserts of SoCal is where the majority of the players come from.

Pat Hill, Jeff Tedford as assistants recruited what FSU used to get what the PAC-10 schools couldn't in Prop 48 kids. Prop 48 let the teams of Dilfer and beyond have success. All of those talented kids that fUCLA and USC wanted went to Fresno because of the former academic policy.

Now they are on an even recruiting field. You now have Tedford at Cal building an infant program, another Valley boy in Walt Harris now at Stanford.

Walt was a finalist for the job like Jeff Tedford, Norm Chow, Joe Tiller, and Brian Billick due to his Valley ties. He played football at UoP with a former Sanger coach Gary Scott. Walt married the head chearleader from Sanger High named Nancy Barr of Barr Packing. That hot piece of ass still looks good to this day as I saw her and Walt in the stands of a Pittsburgh Pirates game last year. But I digress...

Walt Harris will turn that Stanford program around quickly and the pickings are going to be slim for Fresno. However, Cal and Stanford have high academic standards so it will be difficult for Walt and Jeff to attract the best talent.

The only thing that helps Pat Hill is that his program is improvong and is established. When McNair goes down then another FS QB named Billy Volek will do well under Norm Chow at Tennessee. Same system.

Good thread but Fresno can't get out of the WAC and nobody with name cred wants to lose money returning for a "home and home" contract against Fresno. Pat Hill has said that for years. It's all economics and not teams chickening out. Tat is why you would see a shitty team get scheduled for a FS home game when teams like Texas Tech, for example, buy out their return trips. Everyone else is already in a contract. This year just worked for a USC/FS game due to scheduling gaps.

Oregon will open in Fresno next year where Fresno will start what I hear to be better than Dilfer, Volek, Carr, and Pinegar in a guy named Tom Brandstater.

http://gobulldogs.collegesports.com/spo ... tom00.html

Now Pat Hill put those green V stickers on the back of the helmets for his committment to recruit from the Valley hard like this guy and others like Carr. Prop 48's are no longer welcome at FS so he really has no choice.

[Dinsdale]

OK. I'll grant you some of that.

Except that FSU/Nevada was on in my house, although I'm not sure a "majority" of SoCal households get ESPN2. Then again, many of the households that A) don't have cable, and B) would speak in the wonderful ebonics you attribute to them probably aren't going to be academically qualified to go anywhere besides Fresno St, so I guess I'll grant you that one, too. Who am I kidding -- they're going to JuCo after a GED class at community college(Oregon's prime recruiting grounds...d'oh).

[Van]

Ebonics? Shit, compared to reality I thought I was being generous and P.C. and giving them the Queen's English treatment!