Abraham

[The Whistle Is Screaming]

It always interests me as a Jew as to how others view my religion/heritage/history.

How? With their hands on their pocket books......wrapped TIGHTLY. :D

Hello, Mossad secret headquarters, Houston division ....

Hey it's TWIS, how ya'll doin today?

Texas + Jew = Bigger & better than everyone else, what can we do for you TWIS?

Remember that Rozy guy I was telling you about? Well, I think he found a quarter in the cusion of his couch that needs to be liberated. No nead to kill him or anything, but make sure you get the money.

Consider it on a plane back to Israel TWIS, Shalom*!

Shalom* brothers.

click

* You guy's probably know that Shalom means "hello", "goodbye" & "peace", but there are several other meanings to the word, one of which loosely translates too "liberate money from Goyum and send it back to Israel, by any means possible."

[The Whistle Is Screaming]

It always interests me as a Jew as to how others view my religion/heritage/history.

Really?


The short version: humanity owes a debt of gratitude to that Tradition because from it we landed up with leading contributors to most every branch of intellectual endeavor.




velocet

I'm humbled, but in no way take any credit for contributing anything intellectual. Just ask my mother :D I had so much potential ...

[SunCoastSooner]

It always interests me as a Jew as to how others view my religion/heritage/history.

Really?


The short version: humanity owes a debt of gratitude to that Tradition because from it we landed up with leading contributors to most every branch of intellectual endeavor.




velocet

I'm humbled, but in no way take any credit for contributing anything intellectual. Just ask my mother :D I had so much potential ...

Jews taught the Templars how to bank and it was their system that created real banking in Europe.

[SunCoastSooner]

I was really going to say something about this but I'll bite my tongue and resist.

Jews did teach the Templars how to bank though.

[The Whistle Is Screaming]

Well, Whistler, (good to see you, btw), we certainly can't know anything about the real timeline of the "Old Testament," and similarly we know nothing of any actual characters mentioned. Nothing, that is, constituting archeological evidence has ever substantiated ANY of the folks like Moses, David, Solomon. The Maccabees were real enough. And so too now we have a real thing. A real fact we can annoit with oil and dance around: Ariel Sharon's son has just been marched into a prison cell. G'night :wink:

LTS,
Good to see you as well (who are you?).

I'm not arguing about or trying to prove anything about timelines nor even the validity of the OT. History of this timeframe is a jigsaw puzzle with lots of missing pieces, so absolute proof isn't really possible. We can come to some conclusions though, can't we? These conclusions, there are several different ones, make for good discussions/fights.

As far as tangible proof goes, as SCS pointed out there is archialogical proof of King David. I've seen it and I'm sure you've heard of it. The "Western" or "Wailing" wall of the Temple he had built is still standing in Jerusalem. As for Sharons' son, I don't really care. All country's, religions, races, etc. have their good and bad people. I don't hold Jews or Israelis to a different standard just because I support Israel.

[SunCoastSooner]

In Israel they get sent to jail for corrupt fund raising? Damn good thing that our politicians (on both sides of the aisle) don't live over there cause the Clinton's would be serving a mighty long sentance along with many others.

[LTS TRN 2]

Yo, Whistler, in point of fact, the Wailing Wal is a surviving chunk of the Herodic Temple, not the long-previously demolished temple of David. Herod was the Jewish King of Judea, of course, whose reign coincided with the Roman financed and constructed Temple--which they then chose to destroy in 70 AD, etc.

Question: how can any reasonable person read the chronicles of that tribe (the "Book of Kings," and "Judges" in particular) without feeling a genuine revulsion?

Also, the genuine achievements and contributions of Jews to Western culture ALL spring from their awakening, as it were, in the great city of Alexandria. Here began the great intellectual tradition. NOT the gabbling infighting we find among the Orthodox of the day--and of course this was the Maccabees, a carbon copy of today's Taliban, ironically.

[SunCoastSooner]

Yo, Whistler, in point of fact, the Wailing Wal is a surviving chunk of the Herodic Temple, not the long-previously demolished temple of David. Herod was the Jewish King of Judea, of course, whose reign coincided with the Roman financed and constructed Temple--which they then chose to destroy in 70 AD, etc.

Question: how can any reasonable person read the chronicles of that tribe (the "Book of Kings," and "Judges" in particular) without feeling a genuine revulsion?

Also, the genuine achievements and contributions of Jews to Western culture ALL spring from their awakening, as it were, in the great city of Alexandria. Here began the great intellectual tradition. NOT the gabbling infighting we find among the Orthodox of the day--and of course this was the Maccabees, a carbon copy of today's Taliban, ironically.

The Hasmoneans/Maccabees were anything but the Taliban. They seized the throne and basically dispelled anyone who wasn't willing to do things the way they wanted so they could turn a profit and had little to do with religion. If they were hard core religious nuts they would have installed a Davidic Heir to the throne and not themselves. And it wasn't an awakening it was the Diaspora and it also wasn't only in Alexandria. Infact a much better argument can be made for the Jews in Modern day Iraq as much as the Jews in Alexandria. The art of banking was was started and put to use by European Jews.

Sounds to me as though there is more than a bit of anti semitism flowing through your words personally.

[SunCoastSooner]

Question: how can any reasonable person read the chronicles of that tribe (the "Book of Kings," and "Judges" in particular) without feeling a genuine revulsion?

The same way I can contain my laughter while reading many of the Pauline letters and epistles.

[Uncle Fester]

My contention is that prior to the Revolutionary War, the economic modalities, especially in the southern colonies, could most aptly be characterized as agrarian precapitalism.

[Diogenes]

Yo, Whistler, in point of fact, the Wailing Wal is a surviving chunk of the Herodic Temple, not the long-previously demolished temple of David. Herod was the Jewish King of Judea, of course, whose reign coincided with the Roman financed and constructed Temple--which they then chose to destroy in 70 AD, etc.

What's wrong with this picture, historians?

[SunCoastSooner]

Yo, Whistler, in point of fact, the Wailing Wal is a surviving chunk of the Herodic Temple, not the long-previously demolished temple of David. Herod was the Jewish King of Judea, of course, whose reign coincided with the Roman financed and constructed Temple--which they then chose to destroy in 70 AD, etc.

What's wrong with this picture, historians?

heh. I just caught it as well. I can't believe I have read that atleast five or six times today and didn't catch it myself. Normally I would have been all over it as well. Herod was long dead in 70AD. And Herod also wasn't a real Jew he was a forced convert who never really accepted the religion. Herod was a contemporary with Mark Antony and Julias Ceasar. The Roman Senate with a strong "push" from Mark Antony gave him the troops to seize the the throne after they had defeated Pompei.

Is this what you were speaking of?.

[Diogenes]

An Edomite (Idumean) to be precise.

Typical Nick Frisco to blame the Jews for Herod.

[Felix]

My contention is that prior to the Revolutionary War, the economic modalities, especially in the southern colonies, could most aptly be characterized as agrarian precapitalism.

Of course that's your contention.You're a first year grad student. You just finished some Marxian historian, Pete Garrison prob'ly, and so naturally that's what you believe until next month when you get to James Lemon and get convinced that Virginia and Pennsylvania were strongly entrepreneurial and capitalist back in 1740. That'll last until sometime in your second year, then you'll be in here regurgitating Gordon Wood about the Pre-revolutionary utopia and the capital-forming effects of military mobilization.

[Uncle Fester]

Well, as a matter of fact I won't because Wood drastically underestimates the impact of social...

[SunCoastSooner]

Normally I would have been all over it as well. Herod was long dead in 70AD.

Is this what you were speaking of?.

That's when the temple was destroyed not when it was built. Herod built the Second Temple circa 20BC.

He also said that Herod was a Jew which he wasn't. Herod was a forced convert to Judaism who never truely accepted the religion. His alliances were not to the Jews either they were to first Mark Anthoney and then to the Roman Empire in General.

[SunCoastSooner]

Herod was a forced convert to Judaism who never truely accepted the religion.

He didn't have to build the temple, did he?

Thanks for pointing out the fact that Jews are worthless ingrates, though. It's a point well worth remembering.

He built the temple and put a statue of Jupiter in it and decorated it with Egyptian Pagen Symbols for them. How kind of him.

[SunCoastSooner]

Sure he did....

That's must explain why modern Jews hold it in such high esteem, right? Oh wait...it doesn't.

You're right it doesn't and I have no explaination for that. But the Jews at the time sure didn't appreciate it and I for one don't blame them. I can't answer for modern judaism as I am not a Jew nor do I hold Herod's temple in high regard. Ezekiels Temple of the mind was the most important temple IMHO.

[SunCoastSooner]

You're right it doesn't and I have no explaination for that.

Well, it just so happens that I do. The explanation is that he didn't put a statue of Jupiter in the middle of it and decorate it with Egyptian hieroglyphics. There was a gold eagle over the main gate. That's it. The inner sanctum or whatever the fuck they call it was forbidden to goyim on pain of death.

You're correct I made a mistake he didn't put a statue of Jupiter he just made sacrifices to him there. And much of the temple was covered in Egyptian Pagan Symbols.

[SunCoastSooner]

No, he didn't sacrifice to Jupiter in the Jewish Temple and it wasn't "decorated with pagan symbols" either.

What the fuck would he do that for?

Because Herod hated the Jews.

[SunCoastSooner]

No, he didn't sacrifice to Jupiter in the Jewish Temple and it wasn't "decorated with pagan symbols" either.

What the fuck would he do that for?

Because Herod hated the Jews.

So he goes to all the trouble and no small expense to build/restore the Temple of Jerusalem and provide Jews with a very swank temple in which to worship only to insult them by sacrificing to an alien god in it? Sorry but that's just stupid. Actually, it's 2,000 year old propaganda. It is a common trap for historians.

Rome funded as much of the temple as Herod did. And Herod spent much more on other temples he produced for other religions. Nice try with you anti-semitic propaganda.

You know that it is frequently claimed around the Muslim world that the Jews were really the ones responsible for the 9/11 attack and that it couldn't be Muslims because Islam forbids such actions. Now fast forward 2,000 years and the only thing that future historians know is that the World Trade Center was destroyed sometime during the early 21st Century. Then somebody makes a spectacular find! A fragment of newspaper found in Baghdad not only implicates the Jews, but absolves Muslims! The thousand year old mystery is finally solved....right?

You have an argument but I don't agree with it. I think you and dio suffer from the same disease, megalomania.

I agree with a lot of what you have to say on a lot of subjects mv, but you have a real problem of just attacking those that don't agree with you 100% of the time and I find that to be disturbing. You strike me as someone who likely has a severe anger management problem in person.

[Diogenes]

No, mvscal's the only megalomaniac.

I actually am all that.

[LTS TRN 2]

You're missing the point, fellas. It doesn't matter who is technically "Jewish" because anyone can be. Sammy Davis Jr., Liz Taylor, Herod, anyone--get it? Any ethnicity, any skin tone, any nationality.

But, I dare you to read the Old Testament objectively--especially "Judges" and "Kings" and tell me you're not reading about a hysterical theocratic tribe of treacherous, deceitful fanatics and rapist/murderers. And, in light of the smorgasbord of Miracles purportedly performed before their very eyes, the most stubborn, robustly stupid people in history. Again, the great Jewish intellectual tradition was born in Alexandria, and was secular. And still is.

WAR Spinoza

[SunCoastSooner]

You're missing the point, fellas. It doesn't matter who is technically "Jewish" because anyone can be. Sammy Davis Jr., Liz Taylor, Herod, anyone--get it? Any ethnicity, any skin tone, any nationality.

But, I dare you to read the Old Testament objectively--especially "Judges" and "Kings" and tell me you're not reading about a hysterical theocratic tribe of treacherous, deceitful fanatics and rapist/murderers. And, in light of the smorgasbord of Miracles purportedly performed before their very eyes, the most stubborn, robustly stupid people in history. Again, the great Jewish intellectual tradition was born in Alexandria, and was secular. And still is.

WAR Spinoza

There story is no different than the stroy of hundreds of civilizations, LTS, you fucking tard, since the dawn of history. Look at what the Elamites did to the Sumerians. Look at what the Alexander did to the Greeks of modern Turkey who would not fight along side him. Look at what Midiaites (sp?) did to the Canaan region throughout the biblical time period. Look at what the Angles, Saxons, Celts, Picts, and Normans did to each other in the British Isles. Look at what the Norse Vikings did throughout the middle ages. Look at what the English of York did to the Scotts. Look at what the Huns did to Western Europe. Nice grasp of world history you have there.

The archaelogical data from the time period that we have, now, shows us that this story was atleast a little exagerated if not greatly in the Books of "Judges" and "Kings".

Also the awakening did not just occur in Alexandiria as you claim. You need to look into the Jewish Academies of moder Iraq, which lasted longer, and were as influential or more influential than the Academies in Alexandria. I'd recopmmend you start learning about with books written by such experts as Paul Johnson "History of the Jews" cause that is written in a manner that a simpleton such as yourself might be able to grasp.

[LTS TRN 2]

Well, just as I can't believe I'm supporting the Chimp on Port-gate, so too I'm in mild disbelief to find myself racking mscval. Herod was a REAL king, as pointed out. That is, a leader who actually made progress. However, we must remember that Judea was a TINY and insignificant shithole in and of itself. Its area encompassed approximately fifteen miles around Jerusalem. That's it. What we now call the West Bank, of course, several centuries earlier, had comprised the brief Kingdom of Israel.

Oh yeah, Sharon's son is still in prison.