Calabasas = Smoking Nazis

[Jimmy Medalions]

I just hate people like you.

[Mikey]

They also don't know what amount of mercury, if any, is safe.

Did you just make that up for effect?

The "safe limit" of mercury is 2.8 micrograms per deciliter in the blood.

You're talking about blood concentration vs. environmental exposure. Completely different animals.

Care to try again?

[Dinsdale]

You're talking about blood concentration vs. environmental exposure. Completely different animals.

Care to try again?

I dunno -- explaining the obvious to someone who isn't catching on again doesn't sound that fun.

Yes, levels of environmental exposure are hard to quanitify, due in part because everybody absorbs mercury at a different rate.

What did that study say about absortion rates of "carcinogens" from secondhand smoke?

Which "carcinogens" were they measuring, anyway? Pretty sweet study when not only did they not actually measure anything, they even go so far as to not cite which things they weren't measuring. Absolute monument to the scientific process, right there...

But while environmental exposure to mercury will produce different blood levels of it, the results of the exposure can be measured, and put in quantitative terms.

Are you still struggling as to why your analogy was a complete pile of crap?

[TenTallBen]

``There is no right to smoke,'' said Calabasas Mayor Barry Groveman, 52, who is chairman of the public law and environment practice at the Los Angeles law firm Musick Peeler & Garrett LLP. ``There is a right to breathe clean air.''

If there is no right to smoke, then stores shouldn't have the right to sell cigarettes and governments should't have the right to collect taxes levied on said cigarettes. Like I said before, if its that bad for everyone then ban it already!

[PSUFAN]

Wow - they sure went yard on you. They have you buying their cigs, paying their taxes, and crying for them to ban said cigs. Good work, NoBrickAtopAnotherBen.

[Jimmy Medalions]

It's safe to say that sucking is an action BlackLungBen has mastered, in several facets of life.

[TenTallBen]

Wow - they sure went yard on you. They have you buying their cigs, paying their taxes, and crying for them to ban said cigs. Good work, NoBrickAtopAnotherBen.

Not quite, PSUskidmark.

I don't live there, remember? I buy my cigs and pay my taxes where I can still go to a bar and smoke them.

[Neely8]

Jimmy if everybody quit smoking and your helthcare costs decreased would you ultimately save money?

[Jimmy Medalions]

Neely8packsaweek, you may think you're being clever and setting some kind of trap, but you're a fool in doing so. Quitting smoking increases lifespans, thus increasing healthcare cost due to people being responsible and living.

I can support and fund a choice to live. On the other hand, I can't support and don't have any desire to fund some dumbfuck's addiction, which only leads to death.

Try again, addict.

[Neely8]

Neely8packsaweek, you may think you're being clever and setting some kind of trap, but you're a fool in doing so. Quitting smoking increases lifespans, thus increasing healthcare cost due to people being responsible and living.

I can support and fund a choice to live. On the other hand, I can't support and don't have any desire to fund some dumbfuck's addiction, which only leads to death.

Try again, addict.

Actually I am thinking of the tax revenue that would be lost due to no sale of cigarettes but the point you bring up is valid too. Longer lives is equal to more healthcare and higher costs. So you would be doubly screwed......

[PSUFAN]

I don't live there, remember?

One could easily forget that, given all of the bitch-screeching you're doing about it.

They have you buying their cigs, paying their taxes, and crying for them to ban said cigs.

Now we can add "they've run your ass out of their state, but they're still getting your cig tax money" to the list, eh, TwoStomaBen?

[Dinsdale]

Quitting smoking increases lifespans, thus increasing healthcare cost

Are you going to eventually make up your mind on these "facts" you're reagling us with, or are you going to continue with "other people smoking increases my healthcare costs.....WAIT! What I meant to say was that other people quitting smoking increases my health care costs...WAIT! I mean that....well, I basically just want other people to live their lives by my rule."



Which is it going to be? You're coming across about as honest and geniune and committed to the truth as that bullshit "study" you posted.

So, were you lying earlier, or are you lying now? You made two contradictory statements, so I was just hoping you could help a brother out deciding which Jimmy Meds to believe....the Page 11 Jimmy Meds, or the Page 9 Jimmy Meds? One of them is lying, and I figured YOU were uniquely qualified to tell us which one it was.

[Uncle Fester]

Dinsdale wrote: See, these "safe limits" were implimented after observational data was observed for literally millennia, which l;ead to studies that used quanitative data observed in millions of subjects, and established a "safe limit" based on measurable data.

Pure fiction.

The "safe limit" for any toxin is a compromise negotiated between those who sell products and those who supposedly regulate them. Money changes hands, deals are made, and "safe limits" are formulated to make people believe they have nothing to worry about.

It's all feel-good bullshit designed to alleviate people from worrying, not to ensure their "safety."

A single asbestos fiber, for example, can start the mesothelioma ball rolling.

[Mikey]

You're talking about blood concentration vs. environmental exposure. Completely different animals.

Care to try again?

I dunno -- explaining the obvious to someone who isn't catching on again doesn't sound that fun.

Yes, levels of environmental exposure are hard to quanitify, due in part because everybody absorbs mercury at a different rate.

What did that study say about absortion rates of "carcinogens" from secondhand smoke?

Which "carcinogens" were they measuring, anyway? Pretty sweet study when not only did they not actually measure anything, they even go so far as to not cite which things they weren't measuring. Absolute monument to the scientific process, right there...

But while environmental exposure to mercury will produce different blood levels of it, the results of the exposure can be measured, and put in quantitative terms.

Are you still struggling as to why your analogy was a complete pile of crap?

If you'd get off your stupid insulting know-it-all arrogant high-horse attitude I might be willing to have a rational discussion on this. I did pull the mercury analogy out of thin air without looking into specifics, but also still think in spite of your blathering that it's completely valid. I'll be back to discuss after my conference calls.

[BSmack]

So, were you lying earlier, or are you lying now? You made two contradictory statements, so I was just hoping you could help a brother out deciding which Jimmy Meds to believe....the Page 11 Jimmy Meds, or the Page 9 Jimmy Meds? One of them is lying, and I figured YOU were uniquely qualified to tell us which one it was.

I think there is a third choice, which is he is blowing smoke out of his ass. Mind you, in doing so, he is exposing all of us to his smoking ass fumes and should be fined and horsewhipped.

[Jimmy Medalions]

Do you need help understanding the choice between living and being a fucking junkie?

Big Tobacco's pole must be giving that esophagus of yours a bruisin'

[See You Next Wednesday]

``There is no right to smoke,'' said Calabasas Mayor Barry Groveman, 52, who is chairman of the public law and environment practice at the Los Angeles law firm Musick Peeler & Garrett LLP. ``There is a right to breathe clean air.''

If there is no right to smoke, then stores shouldn't have the right to sell cigarettes and governments should't have the right to collect taxes levied on said cigarettes. Like I said before, if its that bad for everyone then ban it already!

There is no right to smoke where ever you feel like. The governement has plenty of restrictions on how you can use lots of legal products. You certainly have not right to act as you want in a public place. You have no right to be naked, you have no right to blare your boombox, you have no right to run around waving a gun.

[RadioFan]

Most folks out there are willing to accept basic common sense ...

You mean like smoking bans outside?

Yeah, lots of common sense there. Like I said, you may as well endorse a ban on charcoal grilling because of the "danger" -- it's just as idiotic.

[Dinsdale]

Pure fiction.

The "safe limit" for any toxin is a compromise negotiated between those who sell products and those who supposedly regulate them. Money changes hands, deals are made, and "safe limits" are formulated to make people believe they have nothing to worry about.

Uhm, you DO know where most of the mercury in people's bodies comes from, right?

The main product that are being sold and regulated that cause the overwhelming majority of human mercury exposure is fish. It's a naturally ocurring substance, and has been since long before anybody even knew what mercury is.

Wonder what the average level of mercury was in the blood of the "subjects" of the secondhand smoke "study?" Oh wait -- they didn't mention that.

[Dinsdale]

Do you need help understanding the choice between living and being a fucking junkie?

No, what I need help with understanding is why you first claimed that other people smoking increases your health-care costs, and now you claim people NOT smoking increases your health-care costs.

Regardless, since you've now made two contradictory statements, it's obvious you weren't basing either statement on any sort of fact, leading one to believe you were making the shit up, which you were.

[Uncle Fester]

Uhm, you DO know where most of the mercury in people's bodies comes from, right?

The main product that are being sold and regulated that cause the overwhelming majority of human mercury exposure is fish. It's a naturally ocurring substance, and has been since long before anybody even knew what mercury is.

Wonder what the average level of mercury was in the blood of the "subjects" of the secondhand smoke "study?" Oh wait -- they didn't mention that.

All I'm saying is that the idea of "safe limits" for toxins is more oyxmoron than scientific certainty.

The motivating and mitigating factor behind establishing such limits is money. Period.

[Dinsdale]

The motivating and mitigating factor behind establishing such limits is money. Period.

Not relevant to the topic, but every year, the state department of wildlife publishes a list of bodies of water, and the "safe" limits of what quantities and types of fish can be eaten from a given body of water.

How is this motivated by money, rather than public safety?

[Jimmy Medalions]

what I need help with understanding is why you first claimed that other people smoking increases your health-care costs

Your grasp of Big Tobacco's pole is noted. Your grasp of the differences between responsible choices and bad ones is lacking.

[Dinsdale]

Answer the question, Claire --

Which posts were you lying in while trying to make your point?

[UCant#1]

Dins... weren't you "on your way out the door" like an hour ago?

[Jimmy Medalions]

Doltsdale-- a weaker effort couldn't be served, even by your already-anemic standards. You can continue to press on with this concept of calling me a liar, but the fact remains that both statements are accurate, and neither contradict the other.

Now, inside that TRS80-powered vacuum tube of a brain you have you probably think you have Jimmy Medalions cornered. Sorry dumbfuck, but the only way my posts contradict each other is if I say people don't have a right to living, or I don't support people living. Nice try*

*not really

Douchedale, you couldn't be a bigger moron if you popped a dozen roofies and let JtR impale your dimehole with his short-as-all-his-lines-in-all-movies knuckleprodder.

[Dinsdale]

neither contradict the other.

OK. Thanks for clearing that up.

I guess I got confused when you said "people smoking increases my health care costs," and then later told us that "people NOT smoking increases my health care costs."

I obviously just forgot what the word "contradict" meant.

UCan'tDoItWithoutReregistering800Times -- Yup, and I'm dead serious about it this time...in a few minutes, anyway. Enjoy your weekender.

[rozy]

Seems like there's an AWFUL lopt of fuckups running around this country to be spending this much time worrying about what everybody else is doing, even though it doesn't æffect them, rather than keeping their own backyard clean.

RACK.

Not to mention the idiotic priorities for law enforcement in trying to enforce this ordinance.

Robberies? Assaults? DUIs? Hell no, we've got more important things to worry about in Calabasas! Officer! Officer! Get over here quick! I saw someone smoking outside!

I was going to read this whole thing, as I am an occasional glutton for literary punishment, but I simply have to stop right here and RACK Brothers' RF and Dinesondale...and move along. Nails! Nothing further to see here...

California freaking sucks

[UCant#1]

Enjoy your weekender.

Hit 'em straight.

[Uncle Fester]

Dinsdale: Not relevant to the topic, but every year, the state department of wildlife publishes a list of bodies of water, and the "safe" limits of what quantities and types of fish can be eaten from a given body of water.

How is this motivated by money, rather than public safety?

The DNR publishes advisories about lakes and fish consumption, obviously for purposes of public safety. They do not regulate the industrial and human activities that lead to mercury pollution, which is where money enters the picture.

For those who operate coal-fired power plants, waste incinerators, or landfills, it costs them money to reduce mercury emissions. They hire lobbyists and politicians to help them out.

Thus, when the FDA sets it's standards for "safe" mercury consumption, the health data is only one piece of the puzzle. The obfuscators, corporate whores, and others soul-selling shitbags do their thing to do whatever they can to minimize the effects to somebody's bottom line. It's how the game is played.

So the U.S. FDA sets its "safe" level for mercury and everyone goes away happy. Meanwhile, Canada's safe level is half that of ours, and Japan's and Great Britain's is lower still. Who is right? Which standard is really safe? Who is involved in making the call?

[Dinsdale]

They do not regulate the industrial and human activities that lead to mercury pollution

And there's the (off-topic) catch -- those activities have little to do with the amount of mercury found in fish. There was mercury in fish and the humans who ate them 2000 years ago.

Dinesondale

Still the only even remotely humorous bit of nicksmack ever sent my way. RACK!

California freaking sucks

You've obviously never been there. California is a beautiful place, with some seriously breathtaking shit to its credit (not as cool as where I live, but cool nonetheless).

I think what you meant to say was "CaliforniaNS freaking suck," which would be a Marcus Allenesque statement.

[RadioFan]

I think what you meant to say was "CaliforniaNS freaking suck," which would be a Marcus Allenesque statement.

Damn. Beat me in with an "esque" reference. I was saving my Carrie Nationesque reference the next time I saw a post from the liberals in this thread somehow inferring that they really, really care, about smokers' well-being (as opposed to not wanting everybody else to be just like them, because, after all, that has never, ever entered into any militant or "reformed" nonsmoker's mind), or even their own "skyrocketing health-care costs" argument.

I've still got the "save the sanctamonious bullshit for your kids" blast on deck, but I was hoping to use it in tangent with the Carrie Nationesque reference. Damn spoiler.

[Husker4ever]

So? I don't want to breathe it in and stinks up my clothes.

Tough shit.

Ha ha...mighty tough talk. The problem for you is, most people in this country are willing to move this thing forward. It's happening town by town, according to the will of the people (shh, don't tell TarddowenTallBen, please).

Why the fuck do people laugh at shit that's going to come back and haunt them? Oh, that's right.....they suffer naught in the interim.

[Uncle Fester]

Dinsdale wrote:
And there's the (off-topic) catch -- those activities have little to do with the amount of mercury found in fish. There was mercury in fish and the humans who ate them 2000 years ago.

You're kidding, right? :)

Yeah, mercury is a naturally occurring element (duh), but humans are responsible for nearly two-thirds of the mercury currently circulating in the environment.

You might want to consider confining your "expertise" to threads about beer, wine, and Gracie Jujitsu.

[Diego in Seattle]

Bullshit Diego....

If I owned a place that had hazerdous chemicals and some anti-chemical crusader was dead set on being my employee I would be more than happy to accommadate just as any other employer that deals with chemicals in the workplace but unfortunately that option isn't offered the proprieter of that business when it come to Cigarettes...... Right?

Crazy how there's thousands of jobs that people work in where they are subject to chemicals known to be hazerdous and options are offered to an employer as pertains to job safety, Somehow some do gooder dumbfuck decided it's somehow more caustic working in a bar as a waitress than some guy pouring Baking Soda on Acid spills at Britz Fertilizer.

Check out how MSDS addresses how employees should protect themselves when dealing with dangerous chemicals and let me know how you think bar owners would feel about their employees using the same devices to protect themselves in their workplace.

[Jimmy Medalions]

You might want to consider confining your "expertise" to threads about...wine

I laughed.

[Y2K]

Bullshit Diego....

If I owned a place that had hazerdous chemicals and some anti-chemical crusader was dead set on being my employee I would be more than happy to accommadate just as any other employer that deals with chemicals in the workplace but unfortunately that option isn't offered the proprieter of that business when it come to Cigarettes...... Right?

Crazy how there's thousands of jobs that people work in where they are subject to chemicals known to be hazerdous and options are offered to an employer as pertains to job safety, Somehow some do gooder dumbfuck decided it's somehow more caustic working in a bar as a waitress than some guy pouring Baking Soda on Acid spills at Britz Fertilizer.

Check out how MSDS addresses how employees should protect themselves when dealing with dangerous chemicals and let me know how you think bar owners would feel about their employees using the same devices to protect themselves in their workplace.

I see you're not quite "getting it"...

The Bar owner isn't offered ANY choice in the matter at all.
No ability to alter his property to create special areas to accomodate his staff and patrons. NOTHING.
It's destroyed a whole business sector here in Cali and a loss of revenue via the tax revenue local Mom & Pop watering holes created.
Fuck those people anyway right because they appeased those shitbag smokers, just like the foresaken Walmart Employee you embrace these people have families to feed and bills to pay.
Seig heil.....................

[Diego in Seattle]

Bullshit Diego....

If I owned a place that had hazerdous chemicals and some anti-chemical crusader was dead set on being my employee I would be more than happy to accommadate just as any other employer that deals with chemicals in the workplace but unfortunately that option isn't offered the proprieter of that business when it come to Cigarettes...... Right?

Crazy how there's thousands of jobs that people work in where they are subject to chemicals known to be hazerdous and options are offered to an employer as pertains to job safety, Somehow some do gooder dumbfuck decided it's somehow more caustic working in a bar as a waitress than some guy pouring Baking Soda on Acid spills at Britz Fertilizer.

Check out how MSDS addresses how employees should protect themselves when dealing with dangerous chemicals and let me know how you think bar owners would feel about their employees using the same devices to protect themselves in their workplace.

I see you're not quite "getting it"...

The Bar owner isn't offered ANY choice in the matter at all.

Another hysterical rant absent of facts.

[Y2K]

Check out how MSDS addresses how employees should protect themselves when dealing with dangerous chemicals and let me know how you think bar owners would feel about their employees using the same devices to protect themselves in their workplace.

I see you're not quite "getting it"...

The Bar owner isn't offered ANY choice in the matter at all.

Another hysterical rant absent of facts.

Brilliant Idea!

How considerate of the City Council to offer up outside Designated Smoking Areas for those fortunate enough to actually have that option available. I'm sure neighboring businesses like clothing stores, doctors offices, ect. embrace this grand idea with open arms....
I'm SURE smoke from 20+ smokers huddled into "the zone" couldn't create enough smoke to stream through doorways and windows 20 ft away...
How funny is it that highly trained law officers like mall Security Guards are working so dilligently enforcing this "ground breaking" new law.
I would be so intimidated by Cletus and Pedro's ticket warning.

Can you imagine giving an option to specific businesses to create an enclosed, well ventilated and clearly marked area INSIDE their
own stores? You do understand that these already the norm in many different places outside California and they actually have companies that specialize in building them AND THEY WORK!

I forgot that those options don't fit the real agenda.
Seig Heil.......

[TenTallBen]

For those of you trying to say that people who slam Big Macs and pork rines all day don't affect others around them are full of shit. I just got back from an Allison Krause & Union Station concert (which was most excellent BTW) and the fat tub of gelatinous shit that was sitting next to me was overflowing into my goddamn seat. Any skinny fuck smoking a cig I could politely request them to extinguish it. Dropping a hundred bills from your ass on the spot is not an option. Fuck that Captian Lou Albano bitch and her right to eat the foods she wants. She's driving up my healthcare costs! I hope she doesn't plan on flying Southwest Airlines anytime soon.