Kansas Sucks
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Kansas Sucks
I know I have not posted in here much lately. I plan to start again in spite of the fact the Jayhawks are not good. On to that in a bit.
I have been very impressed with Gonzaga and UConn this year. They look very tough. I haven't really seen Duke or Texas, so I can't comment. Mich State looks like they will be pretty good. Arizona needs a lot of work, this is a team that will fail to impress this year, they just have too many holes. Missouri's travails do make me smile, the simple fact that they are six point underdogs to Davidson speaks volumes as to where the program not only is, but is perceived to be....it's unbelievable. I bought in to the Quin Snyder hype when he was hired.......my bad!!
On to my beloved alma mater, Kansas. I knew the year would be a struggle. I knew they were very young and inexperienced. I THOUGHT they had talent, and perhaps they do, but I am not very impressed with this team. I've only seen four games, so I haven't seen every one, but the only people who have semi-impressed me in every game are Kaun, Rush and Downs and perhaps Robinson to a smaller degree. The rest of the team has really disappointed me.
I have never seen seen a Kansas team who values the ball any less than this squad, and I've been watching them since the late 70's. They turn the ball over an obscene amount in every game. The team shoots poorly, they rebound poorly, their free throw shooting is horrific and they top all that off by being a below average defensive team. The end of game plays they run look like something you would see in a pickup game, not designed plays out of timeouts.....the Bill Self offense has looked awful for two years and it looks like year three is going to be the worst of all. This team is not good in any area, including coaching. They do try hard, but hell, I'd try hard if I was playing. They are just really depressing to watch. A lot of other teams in the country are young, and don't look as disorganized and pathetic as this Jayhawks squad........anyway, I need to stop.
Lest anyone be confused, I don't think Bill Self should be fired or be on the hot seat. In my opinion, college coaches need five years to prove/disprove themselves at a school. I do think there is hope, these kids must have some talent and are just struggling early on against a relatively tough schedule. They have dominated the patsies, and they aren't getting dominated in any games, so that gives me encouragement. I just don't recollect a team looking this inept in every facet of the game.
I'm not sure what to do. Personally, with the athletes Kansas has, I'd prefer to see them try to make the games faster, trap more defensively, press more. On offense it doesn't appear anyone moves without the ball, they practically never screen for shooters, nobody moves. The last shot of the St. Joseph game, nobody and I mean NOBODY went to the glass, they all stood around watching the shot. Sad.
I'll keep watching and hoping, but I'm not encouraged for this year and unless I see a dramatic turnaround, I'm not terribly encouraged for the immediate future after that. Hopefully I'm wrong, although that isn't frequently the case!!
I have been very impressed with Gonzaga and UConn this year. They look very tough. I haven't really seen Duke or Texas, so I can't comment. Mich State looks like they will be pretty good. Arizona needs a lot of work, this is a team that will fail to impress this year, they just have too many holes. Missouri's travails do make me smile, the simple fact that they are six point underdogs to Davidson speaks volumes as to where the program not only is, but is perceived to be....it's unbelievable. I bought in to the Quin Snyder hype when he was hired.......my bad!!
On to my beloved alma mater, Kansas. I knew the year would be a struggle. I knew they were very young and inexperienced. I THOUGHT they had talent, and perhaps they do, but I am not very impressed with this team. I've only seen four games, so I haven't seen every one, but the only people who have semi-impressed me in every game are Kaun, Rush and Downs and perhaps Robinson to a smaller degree. The rest of the team has really disappointed me.
I have never seen seen a Kansas team who values the ball any less than this squad, and I've been watching them since the late 70's. They turn the ball over an obscene amount in every game. The team shoots poorly, they rebound poorly, their free throw shooting is horrific and they top all that off by being a below average defensive team. The end of game plays they run look like something you would see in a pickup game, not designed plays out of timeouts.....the Bill Self offense has looked awful for two years and it looks like year three is going to be the worst of all. This team is not good in any area, including coaching. They do try hard, but hell, I'd try hard if I was playing. They are just really depressing to watch. A lot of other teams in the country are young, and don't look as disorganized and pathetic as this Jayhawks squad........anyway, I need to stop.
Lest anyone be confused, I don't think Bill Self should be fired or be on the hot seat. In my opinion, college coaches need five years to prove/disprove themselves at a school. I do think there is hope, these kids must have some talent and are just struggling early on against a relatively tough schedule. They have dominated the patsies, and they aren't getting dominated in any games, so that gives me encouragement. I just don't recollect a team looking this inept in every facet of the game.
I'm not sure what to do. Personally, with the athletes Kansas has, I'd prefer to see them try to make the games faster, trap more defensively, press more. On offense it doesn't appear anyone moves without the ball, they practically never screen for shooters, nobody moves. The last shot of the St. Joseph game, nobody and I mean NOBODY went to the glass, they all stood around watching the shot. Sad.
I'll keep watching and hoping, but I'm not encouraged for this year and unless I see a dramatic turnaround, I'm not terribly encouraged for the immediate future after that. Hopefully I'm wrong, although that isn't frequently the case!!
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Re: Kansas Sucks
Damn right you need to stop. You're a walking contradiction. You knew they were young & experienced... yet you're whining like you're still expecting an undefeated start?Mook wrote:On to my beloved alma mater, Kansas. I knew the year would be a struggle. I knew they were very young and inexperienced. I THOUGHT they had talent, and perhaps they do, but I am not very impressed with this team. I've only seen four games, so I haven't seen every one, but the only people who have semi-impressed me in every game are Kaun, Rush and Downs and perhaps Robinson to a smaller degree. The rest of the team has really disappointed me.
I have never seen seen a Kansas team who values the ball any less than this squad, and I've been watching them since the late 70's. They turn the ball over an obscene amount in every game. The team shoots poorly, they rebound poorly, their free throw shooting is horrific and they top all that off by being a below average defensive team. The end of game plays they run look like something you would see in a pickup game, not designed plays out of timeouts.....the Bill Self offense has looked awful for two years and it looks like year three is going to be the worst of all. This team is not good in any area, including coaching. They do try hard, but hell, I'd try hard if I was playing. They are just really depressing to watch. A lot of other teams in the country are young, and don't look as disorganized and pathetic as this Jayhawks squad........anyway, I need to stop.
Why the fuck did you think Roy Williams bailed when he did?
It's because he saw that the recruits he had coming in were not going to be anywhere near as good as he'd hoped, and he was losing three of his best seniors ever.
The "Bill Self" offense will pan out... it's just going to take some time to teach these freshmen how to play defense, and the free throw difficulties will go down once the overall team confidence goes up.
And quit expecting Christian Moody and Sasha Kaun to carry this team... one's a fucking walk-on and the other's a project. Melting down over Jeff Hawkins, who is little more than a Roy Williams leftover scrub, is a waste of time as well. Put your faith in Bill Self and the freshman class that he's recruited, and you can expect to see some of the greatest KU basketball moments ever played over the next four years.
I'm glad you clarified that... cuz it sure looks like you're lobbying for his dismissal with everything else you're posting.Lest anyone be confused, I don't think Bill Self should be fired or be on the hot seat.
Once again, you're a walking contradiction. Inept teams get dominated. If they're not inept, they're not getting dominated.In my opinion, college coaches need five years to prove/disprove themselves at a school. I do think there is hope, these kids must have some talent and are just struggling early on against a relatively tough schedule. They have dominated the patsies, and they aren't getting dominated in any games, so that gives me encouragement. I just don't recollect a team looking this inept in every facet of the game.
"What to do"? Does the state of Kansas basketball really leave you wandering in the wilderness of despair? That comment makes you sould like you're suicidal a la Toddowen.I'm not sure what to do.
They're learning by experience... and things like that will teach them quickly.Personally, with the athletes Kansas has, I'd prefer to see them try to make the games faster, trap more defensively, press more. On offense it doesn't appear anyone moves without the ball, they practically never screen for shooters, nobody moves. The last shot of the St. Joseph game, nobody and I mean NOBODY went to the glass, they all stood around watching the shot. Sad.
You make Whitey's "frontrunner Kansas fan" smack look legitimate.I'll keep watching and hoping, but I'm not encouraged for this year and unless I see a dramatic turnaround, I'm not terribly encouraged for the immediate future after that. Hopefully I'm wrong, although that isn't frequently the case!!
Sad to say, but Mizzoufan gets the KU plan better than KU fan.Bizzarofelice wrote:Rush looks young but good. I hope he bolts for the NBA really early like JaRon and not take his time like Kareem.
You guys have great talent but aren't a team yet. Mizzou fan prays the talent bolts for the NBA before they congeal.
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Re: Kansas Sucks
OK - Let's clear up a couple of things here. One I most definitely am not a frontrunner Kansas fan. And I'm sure most on this board would agree with me on that. Secondly, the state of Kansas basketball does not concern my day to day life, don't worry, I'm not going suicidal, it's a pleasant diversion and something fun to talk about. Thirdly, I never said I expected an undefeated start....the losses are not what I was complaining about....in fact KU could very easily be looking at a one loss start. The wins and losses are not the issue at all, it is the way the team looks. Fourthly, I have witnessed some of the "greatest moments in KU basketball history" and let's say I'm not convinced we will be seeing them anytime soon and that is my concern. I have also witnessed some of the greatest players in KU history, and right now, I don't see any on this team. Can that change? Certainly. Do I think it will change? I have no idea, but I'm concerned. And, at no point in any post have I ever said I expected Christian Moody, Jeff Hawkins or Sasha Kaun to dominate, I have no idea where that came from. Finally, as I mentioned in my original post, my concerns for this team do not really concern wins or losses or even talent or a lack thereof. What I am really mortified by is the complete lack of fundamentals this team exhibits on a nightly basis, a trend that has carried over from last year. I can absolutely deal with the wins and losses, but the stupid play and careless turnovers are problems not as easily corrected as the frontrunning Kansas faithful would have you believe. I've seen some losing teams at Kansas and I've seen some winning teams at Kansas, but I haven't seen any teams this fundamentally unsound since the final couple of years of the Ted Owens era. Once again, I hope I'm wrong, I am a fan and enjoy Kansas basketball, but I've seen enough teams and watched enough games that I can be fairly objective. Sometimes I'm wrong, sometimes I'm right but it isn't because I'm Chicken Little or Pollyanna in my assessment of the current situation.JHawkBCD wrote:Mook wrote: Damn right you need to stop. You're a walking contradiction. You knew they were young & experienced... yet you're whining like you're still expecting an undefeated start?
Why the fuck did you think Roy Williams bailed when he did?
It's because he saw that the recruits he had coming in were not going to be anywhere near as good as he'd hoped, and he was losing three of his best seniors ever.
The "Bill Self" offense will pan out... it's just going to take some time to teach these freshmen how to play defense, and the free throw difficulties will go down once the overall team confidence goes up.
And quit expecting Christian Moody and Sasha Kaun to carry this team... one's a fucking walk-on and the other's a project. Melting down over Jeff Hawkins, who is little more than a Roy Williams leftover scrub, is a waste of time as well. Put your faith in Bill Self and the freshman class that he's recruited, and you can expect to see some of the greatest KU basketball moments ever played over the next four years.
Once again, you're a walking contradiction. Inept teams get dominated. If they're not inept, they're not getting dominated.In my opinion, college coaches need five years to prove/disprove themselves at a school. I do think there is hope, these kids must have some talent and are just struggling early on against a relatively tough schedule. They have dominated the patsies, and they aren't getting dominated in any games, so that gives me encouragement. I just don't recollect a team looking this inept in every facet of the game.
They're learning by experience... and things like that will teach them quickly.Personally, with the athletes Kansas has, I'd prefer to see them try to make the games faster, trap more defensively, press more. On offense it doesn't appear anyone moves without the ball, they practically never screen for shooters, nobody moves. The last shot of the St. Joseph game, nobody and I mean NOBODY went to the glass, they all stood around watching the shot. Sad.
You make Whitey's "frontrunner Kansas fan" smack look legitimate.I'll keep watching and hoping, but I'm not encouraged for this year and unless I see a dramatic turnaround, I'm not terribly encouraged for the immediate future after that. Hopefully I'm wrong, although that isn't frequently the case!!
Sad to say, but Mizzoufan gets the KU plan better than KU fan.Bizzarofelice wrote:Rush looks young but good. I hope he bolts for the NBA really early like JaRon and not take his time like Kareem.
You guys have great talent but aren't a team yet. Mizzou fan prays the talent bolts for the NBA before they congeal.
Racks for Baceferrice.
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Thanks for the recognition, JHawk. I need it now.
I was in class last night and would occassionally log in to check the Mizzou score. Pathetic. Went home and didn't bother watching the recording I made of the game.
I think my last "let's give Quin a chance" thought just came and went leaving nothing but "FIRE QUINNY! BRING BACK THE HALEY TWINS!"
I was in class last night and would occassionally log in to check the Mizzou score. Pathetic. Went home and didn't bother watching the recording I made of the game.
I think my last "let's give Quin a chance" thought just came and went leaving nothing but "FIRE QUINNY! BRING BACK THE HALEY TWINS!"
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Cal is nothing special. and Mook is far from a newbie in these parts. i haven't been sold on Self as a coach (no doubt the guy can recruit) at the highest level. in 2003 when KU got first and second round games in KC and STL due to the magic of the "pod" system.....there was a whitewash of the way that KU team finished the year. they were 7-5 or something in the last 12....with losses to Nebraska and such. that the "team finally bought into Self's system" was one of the biggest media revisionist history myths i've ever seen.
i saw that team in Boulder, and they looked woefully disorganized on O compared to the Roy Williams teams. but they had Simien and Langford and CU can't guard a chair or a stopsign on the perimeter.
i saw that team in Boulder, and they looked woefully disorganized on O compared to the Roy Williams teams. but they had Simien and Langford and CU can't guard a chair or a stopsign on the perimeter.
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JHawk - luckily I don't live in KC anymore, so I don't have to hear the sports radio psychos. I simply say what I think, I'm in Arizona now, so KU basketball ain't such a big deal down here.
In fairness, my initial post did come off a bit whiny..didn't intend for it to.
I didn't see the game today, but from what I've heard the first half looked like more of the same and second half was markedly improved.
Nobody wants to be wrong about all this more than me!
In fairness, my initial post did come off a bit whiny..didn't intend for it to.
I didn't see the game today, but from what I've heard the first half looked like more of the same and second half was markedly improved.
Nobody wants to be wrong about all this more than me!
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Thank God I live out of state and only get to see the national games....if I had to watch Kansas play every game I would be forced to drink a 44oz glass of hemlock. This team is painful to watch. This is without question the most fundamentally un-sound Kansas team of the last 20 years. Simply depressing.
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WhyTF was Moody, a 50% FT shooter, in the game at that point?Mook wrote:Thank God I live out of state and only get to see the national games....if I had to watch Kansas play every game I would be forced to drink a 44oz glass of hemlock. This team is painful to watch. This is without question the most fundamentally un-sound Kansas team of the last 20 years. Simply depressing.
Bill Self=tool.
From the moment we leave the forest, Dan, it's all a givin' up and adjustin'.
That's a brilliant reply....I'm sure most schools look at KU's tourney record with disdain and consider themselves fortunate to not have Kansas' record.Diogenes wrote:Actually they do something dumbass every March.
It usually involves getting punked by a team rated waaaaay lower then them.
Hell in the last five years alone they've been to two final fours and an elite eight......shitty record, I know...
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Next year just remember the formula.PrimeX wrote:Bullshit!Diogenes wrote:Liar.PrimeX wrote:BRACKET BUSTER OMG!!!!
I had them in the final four! :PISSED OFF MUCH?:!
Nobody's that retarded.
i am. :?
Or WAS.
Damnit. I was sooo in the money, too.
Kansas+March=Choke.
And don't go all menstrual on me Jayhawkfan, I don't make the rules, just point them out.
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One final question just for clarification - you don't think Kansas has any impressive tournament history? It's fine if you don't, but I want to know what you would consider an impressive track record. Obviously a five year run of two final fours, one elite eight and one championship game appearnce is unacceptable and deemed "chokeworthy".
I understand you won't answer and you are only baiting. I just would like to hear you articulate what it takes not to be considered "chokers". And I'd prefer facts, not snappy little one-liners that do nothing to support an argument, although I sincerely doubt you are able or willing to respond to such a simple request.
I understand you won't answer and you are only baiting. I just would like to hear you articulate what it takes not to be considered "chokers". And I'd prefer facts, not snappy little one-liners that do nothing to support an argument, although I sincerely doubt you are able or willing to respond to such a simple request.
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UTEPMook wrote:One final question just for clarification - you don't think Kansas has any impressive tournament history? It's fine if you don't, but I want to know what you would consider an impressive track record. Obviously a five year run of two final fours, one elite eight and one championship game appearnce is unacceptable and deemed "chokeworthy".
I understand you won't answer and you are only baiting. I just would like to hear you articulate what it takes not to be considered "chokers". And I'd prefer facts, not snappy little one-liners that do nothing to support an argument, although I sincerely doubt you are able or willing to respond to such a simple request.
RHODE ISLAND
BUCKNELL
BRADLEY
ETC.
ETC.
ETC.
ku just has a history of losing to inferior opponents in the tourney. Hell, Roy had four future NBAers on his squad and couldn't win it! It's not that ku as a team sucks, it is just that ku fan is mostly an asshole and most fans enjoy watching those idiot fans melt when ku underachieves.
I'm not lumping you in with the asshole ku fan, btw. You seem pretty level-headed and realistic. It just seems to me that the majority of ku fan is not like that.
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HOLY SHITE!!!Kansas City Kid wrote:
ku just has a history of losing to inferior opponents in the tourney. Hell, Roy had four future NBAers on his squad and couldn't win it! It's not that ku as a team sucks, it is just that ku fan is mostly an asshole and most fans enjoy watching those idiot fans melt when ku underachieves.
I'm not lumping you in with the asshole ku fan, btw. You seem pretty level-headed and realistic. It just seems to me that the majority of ku fan is not like that.
A Kaley post that wasn't either a stalking invective or a "Hey look, guys...watch me separate the peanuts from my shit" attention getter.
Concur...ku fans are bandwagon riding assholes to the nth degree. The ones I've come in personal contact with for the most part are, anyways.
This one truck driver who delivers us raw materials is a BIG ku fan, always running smack on Mizzou. Last month after the Texas beatdown, he drops by wearing a fucking Longhorns hat.
Par for the course.
And most KU fans assume that most Mizzou fans "are bandwagon riding assholes to the nth degree".......clearly most fans of either team can't have a rational discussion about this and for that matter rarely do. I could site the magnificent attendance figures from the Paige Center this year to support my bandwagon argument, but honestly that's not what this post was about. Sorry....as an asshole Kansas fan I couldn't resist.War Wagon wrote:HOLY SHITE!!!Kansas City Kid wrote:
ku just has a history of losing to inferior opponents in the tourney. Hell, Roy had four future NBAers on his squad and couldn't win it! It's not that ku as a team sucks, it is just that ku fan is mostly an asshole and most fans enjoy watching those idiot fans melt when ku underachieves.
I'm not lumping you in with the asshole ku fan, btw. You seem pretty level-headed and realistic. It just seems to me that the majority of ku fan is not like that.
A Kaley post that wasn't either a stalking invective or a "Hey look, guys...watch me separate the peanuts from my shit" attention getter.
Concur...ku fans are bandwagon riding assholes to the nth degree. The ones I've come in personal contact with for the most part are, anyways.
This one truck driver who delivers us raw materials is a BIG ku fan, always running smack on Mizzou. Last month after the Texas beatdown, he drops by wearing a fucking Longhorns hat.
Par for the course.
But that wasn't what this thread was about, it was about the choker rep Kansas has. I can admit that they have lost to inferior opponents and yes, that sucks. However, I also recall people saying Kansas "choked" the year they lost the title game (as a #3 seed) to Syracuse. People say Kansas chokes when they don't win the whole tournament. I am simply arguing that 99% of the teams in college basketball would give anything to have the tourney history Kansas has. Hell KU hadn't lost a first round game for 22 consecutive tournaements prior to last year. And truthfully, I don't care if people say they choked or think that, it's fun. That's what makes Mizzou/Kansas a rivalry, we laugh at the expense of each other. I just can't stand dildos who come in here and act like this is expected. If you say any team will "choke" every single year, some years you'll be right and you can act like a genius and that's fine. Just be sure to show your face when your wrong, which doesn't happen. Whatever, to each their own.
Who are the Tigers bringing in as a coach? I hope they get somebody to get some of the excitement back in the program, it would certainly make the rivalry a lot more fun again.
This post was not meant as a shot at the Tiger nation. Just to get some insight into your thoughts.
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Mook - ku choked to Syracuse because they couldn't sink a free throw to save their ass. It's funny when MU fans point out or even answer the question you posed about why ku is perceived as chokers, asshole ku fans starts piling on about MU's record.
Yes, MU has a history of not playing well or not even making the tourney, but ku fan has an inflated version of their team each year and it is funny to see the bubble burst. I just miss Roy's tear-filled end to each disappoiting season!
Again, I AM NOT SAYING MU IS GREAT - it's obvious they are not! I'm just saying ku is not as great as ku fan thinks and they DO choke! In fact, since the tourney went to 64 teams I believe ku has the most finishes in the TOP 20 WITHOUT winning a title. They are underachievers. Hell, just look at some of the sorry ass MIZZOU squads who have beaten superior-talented ku squads over the years.
Yes, MU has a history of not playing well or not even making the tourney, but ku fan has an inflated version of their team each year and it is funny to see the bubble burst. I just miss Roy's tear-filled end to each disappoiting season!
Again, I AM NOT SAYING MU IS GREAT - it's obvious they are not! I'm just saying ku is not as great as ku fan thinks and they DO choke! In fact, since the tourney went to 64 teams I believe ku has the most finishes in the TOP 20 WITHOUT winning a title. They are underachievers. Hell, just look at some of the sorry ass MIZZOU squads who have beaten superior-talented ku squads over the years.