UNC-Duke I: Call it!

Shoalzie · Post by **Shoalzie** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:27 pm

Even with this game in Cameron, I don't feel that strongly about Duke's chances of beating the 'Heels tonight...

North Carolina 85, Duke 81

Gotta hope for Redick to shoot to the lights out and for Williams to stay out of foul trouble and be productive in the paint...which is pretty much their approach to every game. It'll be interesting to see who Coach K puts on Felton. Dockery is a better defender over Ewing but do you sacrifice scoring for defense? I just think Carolina has too much speed and athleticism...Duke doesn't have the depth to hang with them.

helmet · Post by **helmet** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:37 pm

Agreed. And unlike last year, this Carolina team has bought into Ole Roy.

I'm more worried about guarding the Williamses than Felton....but I think the real defensive focus has to be on stopping the break. Duke can't get into a track meet.

UNC 80
Duke 73

SunCoastSooner · Post by **SunCoastSooner** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 7:01 pm

Duke 77 UNC 73

I can't bring myself to ever give UNC or its fans credit for anything other than being pricks. Besides I went to a few games at Cameron early in HS with some friends of mine and it was always a great atmosphere. I guess I am one of the few non haters of Duke but I have a small affinity for them in basketball since those days.

the_ouskull · Post by **the_ouskull** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:32 pm

Wish I could watch this one... f'in' Spanish test. Sorry, Pinchea examen a Espanol.

I think that Duke wins the game. No score prediction though. Not very high scoring.

the_ouskull

moon · Post by **moon** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:34 pm

Heart says: Duke 92
UNC 50

Head says: Duke 87
UNC 86

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 2:09 am

One thing's for sure. No matter what happens, Dickie V will blast a load on the underside of the scorer's table on the floor.

Kinda like the father of twins that play each other. Can't root for either one and will be dissapointed and elated no matter the outcome.

Cicero · Post by **Cicero** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 3:47 am

Duke 70

UNC 68

Cicero · Post by **Cicero** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 4:19 am

In the words of Lil Jon:

YEAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!!!

JHawkBCD · Post by **JHawkBCD** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 4:31 am

BWAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

gasp

wheeze

BWWWAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Fuck Roy Williams!

Nice no-shot to end the game, Tar Heels.

RACK the looks on the faces of the UNC fans in that bar on the ESPN live camera shot. Classic.

helmet · Post by **helmet** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 5:12 am

IndyFrisco wrote:One thing's for sure. No matter what happens, Dickie V will blast a load on the underside of the scorer's table on the floor.

the TV guys in Cameron sit up in a crows nest kind of thing, not down on the scorer's table.

Shine · Post by **Shine** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 5:32 am

JHawkBCD wrote: RACK the looks on the faces of the UNC fans in that bar on the ESPN live camera shot. Classic.

Kinda like the look you must have gotten used to during the Final Four with Roy.

Shine · Post by **Shine** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 5:33 am

I've gotta give TONS of credit to the Dookies this year. I really thought they were gonna struggle this year, and it's a credit to them to be doing as well as they are.

MuchoBulls · Post by **MuchoBulls** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 2:17 pm

JHawkBCD wrote:Nice no-shot to end the game, Tar Heels.

Looked like there was still time on the clock when the ball was out of bounds and it had clearly gone off a Duke player. Aren't the refs supposed able to look into a situation like that?

JHawkBCD · Post by **JHawkBCD** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 2:35 pm

Shine wrote:
JHawkBCD wrote: RACK the looks on the faces of the UNC fans in that bar on the ESPN live camera shot. Classic.
Kinda like the look you must have gotten used to during the Final Four with Roy.

Nah, I didn't get that look when he made the Final Four... that look usually surfaced when he went one & done, or two & bbqjones, in the tourney.

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 3:31 pm

helmet wrote:
IndyFrisco wrote:One thing's for sure. No matter what happens, Dickie V will blast a load on the underside of the scorer's table on the floor.
the TV guys in Cameron sit up in a crows nest kind of thing, not down on the scorer's table.

Must have been "raining" goo then after the game...

rozy · Post by **rozy** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 5:38 pm

Shine wrote:I've gotta give TONS of credit to the Dookies this year. I really thought they were gonna struggle this year, and it's a credit to them to be doing as well as they are.

Gotta give props to that kind of a classy post!

helmet · Post by **helmet** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 6:25 pm

MuchoBulls wrote: Looked like there was still time on the clock when the ball was out of bounds and it had clearly gone off a Duke player. Aren't the refs supposed able to look into a situation like that?

The ref called it out of bounds to Duke. Don't you think Roy would have put up more of a fight if it were UNC's ball with even a fraction of a second left?

MuchoBulls · Post by **MuchoBulls** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 7:27 pm

helmet wrote:The ref called it out of bounds to Duke. Don't you think Roy would have put up more of a fight if it were UNC's ball with even a fraction of a second left?

Roy was probably still awestruck by the fact that his player didn't drive the lane when it was wide open.

I didn't see the ref call it out of bounds to Duke. Looked like it went out of bounds off of them.

JHawkBCD · Post by **JHawkBCD** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 8:30 pm

rozy wrote:
Shine wrote:I've gotta give TONS of credit to the Dookies this year. I really thought they were gonna struggle this year, and it's a credit to them to be doing as well as they are.

Gotta give props to that kind of a classy post!

Marcus Allen agrees.

RadioFan · Post by **RadioFan** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 3:17 am

JHawkBCD wrote:BWAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

gasp

wheeze

BWWWAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Fuck Roy Williams!

Nice no-shot to end the game, Tar Heels.

RACK the looks on the faces of the UNC fans in that bar on the ESPN live camera shot. Classic.

Question for you JHawk.

Do you truely hate Roy Williams more than Duke?

Honestly, I was surprised, given all the KU-UNC connections. Hell, I became KU fan living in Lawrence, with a close second going to UNC, given all the ties.

Btw, incredible game last night, even though Duke got lucky. :twisted:

I just hope the intensity of that game can be imitated in every game this year in the tournament.

Cueball · Post by **Cueball** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 6:38 am

Good regular season game. I can't stand it when the media had to hype the rivalry games and call them great games just so they can jusity all the hype. Bottom line, the game was sloppily played with poor shooting from start to finish. Yeah I'm pissed about the loss, but it's not March so I won't sweat it.

JHawkBCD · Post by **JHawkBCD** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 2:40 pm

RadioFan wrote:Do you truely hate Roy Williams more than Duke?

Honestly, I was surprised, given all the KU-UNC connections. Hell, I became KU fan living in Lawrence, with a close second going to UNC, given all the ties.

Hate? No...

Disrespect? Yep. The way he promised the KU team, student body, faculty, and alumni, that his heart was in Lawrence, and that he had unfinished business, yet one year later, he went to UNC for more money, despite the fact that he lost in the final game that season.

I don't have any respect for a coach that considers his business "finished" by merely taking his team to the championship game, only to lose it. If I were Tar Heel Fan, I would be suspect of that move as well.

The real reason is that Roy was pissed that the new athletic director wasn't giving 100% of the athletic department's resources to his basketball program. His ego is legendary in Lawrence. Meanwhile, Mark Mangino is expected to have to deal with a shit ball for a football team at KU? Fuck that... I'd like to have a respectable football program in Lawrence again, as well. Putting the hurt on KSU this year, as well as Mizzou, sure indicates that it's happening. Who knows... maybe a good bowl game is in the cards this coming season?

Huckleberry Hound sez - "Second playce is good enuff fer me!"

SunCoastSooner · Post by **SunCoastSooner** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 2:41 pm

JHawkBCD wrote:
RadioFan wrote:Do you truely hate Roy Williams more than Duke?

Honestly, I was surprised, given all the KU-UNC connections. Hell, I became KU fan living in Lawrence, with a close second going to UNC, given all the ties.
Hate? No...

Disrespect? Yep. The way he promised the KU team, student body, faculty, and alumni, that his heart was in Lawrence, and that he had unfinished business, yet one year later, he went to UNC for more money, despite the fact that he lost in the final game that season.

I don't have any respect for a coach that considers his business "finished" by merely taking his team to the championship game, only to lose it. If I were Tar Heel Fan, I would be suspect of that move as well.

The real reason is that Roy was pissed that the new athletic director wasn't giving 100% of the athletic department's resources to his basketball program. His ego is legendary in Lawrence. Meanwhile, Mark Mangino is expected to have to deal with a shit ball for a football team at KU? Fuck that... I'd like to have a respectable football program in Lawrence again, as well. Putting the hurt on KSU this year, as well as Mizzou, sure indicates that it's happening. Who knows... maybe a good bowl game is in the cards this coming season?

Huckleberry Hound sez - "Second playce is good enuff fer me!"

Do Kansas Fans live in their own little world? What is Roy's alma mater again?

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 4:41 pm

SunCoastSooner wrote:Do Kansas Fans live in their own little world?

Honestly, I've never seen more of a "Pot Meet Kettle" comment.

In college sports, don't we all?

SunCoastSooner · Post by **SunCoastSooner** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 5:01 pm

IndyFrisco wrote:
SunCoastSooner wrote:Do Kansas Fans live in their own little world?
Honestly, I've never seen more of a "Pot Meet Kettle" comment.

In college sports, don't we all?

What does this infer? When KS was offered the NC State job a few years ago I thought he was as good as gone.

Thats not even his alma mater but just a return to his home state.

Mook · Post by **Mook** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 5:19 pm

[quote="JHawkBCD"]

Hate? No...

Disrespect? Yep. The way he promised the KU team, student body, faculty, and alumni, that his heart was in Lawrence, and that he had unfinished business, yet one year later, he went to UNC for more money, despite the fact that he lost in the final game that season.

I don't have any respect for a coach that considers his business "finished" by merely taking his team to the championship game, only to lose it. If I were Tar Heel Fan, I would be suspect of that move as well.

The real reason is that Roy was pissed that the new athletic director wasn't giving 100% of the athletic department's resources to his basketball program. His ego is legendary in Lawrence. Meanwhile, Mark Mangino is expected to have to deal with a shit ball for a football team at KU? Fuck that... I'd like to have a respectable football program in Lawrence again, as well. Putting the hurt on KSU this year, as well as Mizzou, sure indicates that it's happening. Who knows... maybe a good bowl game is in the cards this coming season?

Huckleberry Hound sez - "Second playce is good enuff fer me!"[/quote]

Here is my philosophy on this....I'm happy for what Roy Williams did for Kansas basketball. I truly do think he was torn between KU and UNC. Ultimately he chose UNC. Did he handle everything perfectly, no. Are KU, UNC and Roy Williams all fine? Yes.

Good for everyone involved. People have to make decisions in their life and they aren't always easy or popular. It doesn't make them wrong. I know some KU fans will never get over this and will hate UNC and Roy Williams. I feel none of that. I have no different feelings for UNC now than I did before Roy went there. I realy don't wish bad on Roy either, in fact, I hope he gets his title one day (not this year of course!!) because I think he is a great coach and deserves it.

Was Roy a bit of a control freak? Certainly. You tell me the coach that, to some degree, isn't.

Anyway - I think KU actually got the better end of this deal because I think Bill Self is a recruiting monster. And don't forget that KU basically did the same thing to Illinois that UNC did to them.....then UI did the same thing to SIU and so on down the line. That's the way it goes.

Good luck to Roy Williams and better luck to the Jayhawks.

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 5:33 pm

SunCoastSooner wrote:
IndyFrisco wrote:
SunCoastSooner wrote:Do Kansas Fans live in their own little world?
Honestly, I've never seen more of a "Pot Meet Kettle" comment.

In college sports, don't we all?
What does this infer?

I was inferring that, especially on this board, SoonerFan very much so "lives in ther own world."

Read the fine print. We're (college fans) all guilty of this to a certain level.

SunCoastSooner · Post by **SunCoastSooner** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 5:43 pm

IndyFrisco wrote:
SunCoastSooner wrote:
IndyFrisco wrote: Honestly, I've never seen more of a "Pot Meet Kettle" comment.

In college sports, don't we all?
What does this infer?
I was inferring that, especially on this board, SoonerFan very much so "lives in ther own world."

Read the fine print. We're (college fans) all guilty of this to a certain level.

Okay, gotcha. Oklahoma does have more than its fair share of homers, most appeared after the 2000 football season BtH pointed out on the football board. I can't controll that anymore than USC fan can controll his bandwagoners. As far as coaching jobs are concerned though I am pretty realistic as I stated I thought Kelvin was gone when NCState came calling.

JHawkBCD · Post by **JHawkBCD** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 7:35 pm

SunCoastSooner wrote:Do Kansas Fans live in their own little world?

In a world where you live up to promises to others, verbal or otherwise?

I guess we do, eh?

By this logic, should I assume in Sooner World, that your word doesn't mean shit?

JHawkBCD · Post by **JHawkBCD** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 7:39 pm

Mook wrote:Was Roy a bit of a control freak? Certainly. You tell me the coach that, to some degree, isn't.

When said coach starts dictating to other sports (football, baseball, track & field, etc.) how they are to run their program, and costs those programs funding, said coach is getting into territory that he has no business poking around in. Apparently, though, you're not much of a KU fan; otherwise, Roy's affect on all other KU sports might mean something to you.

Like I said, I've been wanting KU to be competitive in football for years... this past season, the first one that Roy had no impact on, was the most successful season since Glen Mason took the team to the Holiday Bowl in 1995. KU football is interesting again, thankfully... maybe I should be thanking Roy for jetting, who knows... but the fact that he played it up to the masses, only to take the money and run, makes me lose tremendous respect for the man, UNC being his alma mater or not.

SunCoastSooner · Post by **SunCoastSooner** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 8:21 pm

JHawkBCD wrote:
SunCoastSooner wrote:Do Kansas Fans live in their own little world?
In a world where you live up to promises to others, verbal or otherwise?

I guess we do, eh?

By this logic, should I assume in Sooner World, that your word doesn't mean shit?

Is he still coaching at Kansas? Sounds like the job is done to me.

Mook · Post by **Mook** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 8:49 pm

[quote="JHawkBCD"][quote="Mook"]Was Roy a bit of a control freak? Certainly. You tell me the coach that, to some degree, isn't. [/quote]

When said coach starts dictating to other sports (football, baseball, track & field, etc.) how they are to run their program, and costs those programs funding, said coach is getting into territory that he has no business poking around in. Apparently, though, you're not much of a KU fan; otherwise, Roy's affect on all other KU sports might mean something to you.
[/quote]

Trust me JHawk - I'm a KU fan...I'm sure most on this board will attest to that. I grew up in Kansas, graduated from KU and continue to contribute to the University. I've been following KU sports for the better part of the last 30 years....but, what do I know. Anyway, Roy Williams could not dictate what happened with other sports anymore than you or I could. He may have wanted to, but if he was truly able to do so, then that is a problem for the AD or the University President, if they can't run their University and Departments then that is their fault.

KU football has basically sucked for years, Roy Williams did not run them into the ground and in fact wasn't Roy there in those bowl years of Glen Mason?? And by the way, it was the Aloha Bowl, not the Holiday Bowl. Of course, I'm not a real fan, what would I know. :wink:

Quit blaming Roy Williams for all the shit that is wrong with KUAD. Did he make some mistakes? Of course. Should somebody with the success he had at KU be as despised as he is? NO.....Did he bring many of his problems upon himself? Certainly.

Bottom line, people need to get over it. Roy Williams isn't Kansas. Kansas basketball is a tradition, Roy was a small part of the tradition. The tradition will live on.

Oh well, I'll leave it to you true fans to really worry about it. :P

SunCoastSooner · Post by **SunCoastSooner** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 8:54 pm

Mook wrote:
Bottom line, people need to get over it.Roy Williams isn't Kansas. Kansas basketball is a tradition, Roy was a small part of the tradition. The tradition will live on.

RACK Mook

JHawkBCD · Post by **JHawkBCD** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 10:14 pm

Mook wrote:Trust me JHawk - I'm a KU fan...I'm sure most on this board will attest to that. I grew up in Kansas, graduated from KU and continue to contribute to the University. I've been following KU sports for the better part of the last 30 years....but, what do I know. Anyway, Roy Williams could not dictate what happened with other sports anymore than you or I could. He may have wanted to, but if he was truly able to do so, then that is a problem for the AD or the University President, if they can't run their University and Departments then that is their fault.

Apparently, you don't know much.

It was a well known fact that, while Al Bohl was the AD at KU, that Roy Williams held more power than Al, and pretty much controlled Al. Went as far as cockblocking Al from doing anything with the football program. So much for the AD keeping ol' Roy in line.

More on the story

As far as the Chancellor's involvement, he was pretty much in Roy's pocket, so that didn't help Al Bohl's case, either.

KU football has basically sucked for years, Roy Williams did not run them into the ground and in fact wasn't Roy there in those bowl years of Glen Mason??

What in the fuck are you smoking? Roy was most certainly there in 1995, right in the middle of the Jacque Vaughn/Greg Ostertag/Jerod Haase era. Well after the Adonis Jordan era. Fucking idiot.

And by the way, it was the Aloha Bowl, not the Holiday Bowl. Of course, I'm not a real fan, what would I know.

Score one point for the bandwagoner... but that's the only point you'll score.

Quit blaming Roy Williams for all the shit that is wrong with KUAD. Did he make some mistakes? Of course. Should somebody with the success he had at KU be as despised as he is? NO.....Did he bring many of his problems upon himself? Certainly.

I think I made it quite clear that it wasn't a "hate" thing... it was disrespect for weaseling out on his own "unfinished business". If he wasn't planning to stay, then perhaps he shouldn't have blown sunshine up KU's ass.

SunCoastSooner · Post by **SunCoastSooner** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 10:18 pm

JHawkBCD wrote:
Mook wrote:KU football has basically sucked for years, Roy Williams did not run them into the ground and in fact wasn't Roy there in those bowl years of Glen Mason??
What in the fuck are you smoking? Roy was most certainly there in 1995, right in the middle of the Jacque Vaughn/Greg Ostertag/Jerod Haase era. Well after the Adonis Jordan era. Fucking idiot.

I don't know what they teach you in Lawerence but my english comprehension skills tell me that you just stated the same thing he did whiz kid.

JHawkBCD · Post by **JHawkBCD** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 10:24 pm

SunCoastSooner wrote:
JHawkBCD wrote:
Mook wrote:KU football has basically sucked for years, Roy Williams did not run them into the ground and in fact wasn't Roy there in those bowl years of Glen Mason??
What in the fuck are you smoking? Roy was most certainly there in 1995, right in the middle of the Jacque Vaughn/Greg Ostertag/Jerod Haase era. Well after the Adonis Jordan era. Fucking idiot.
I don't know what they teach you in Lawerence but my english comprehension skills tell me that you just stated the same thing he did whiz kid.

Must've reversed the words "wasn't" & "Roy" in the translation.

KMOA on that one, I did.

Fucking idiot indeed.

still doesn't change the fact that Roy welched

RadioFan · Post by **RadioFan** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 10:31 pm

When I lived in Lawrence ('89-'99), there seemed to be an understanding among many KU fans that there was always a chance Roy would end up going back to UNC, no matter how much he talked about his love of KU. I was surprised he didn't go the first time the job was offered. Why anyone would be pissed about his "breaking a promise" or whatever is surprising.

Nothing is ever set in stone with a lot of these guys, no matter what they say. It would be like Bob Stoops deciding to take a job in the NFL. Has he said he's not interested? Yep, repeatedly. Has he said he's happy at OU, one of the premier programs in the country? Yep, many times. Would I be surprised if he left, given an offer that he deemed was the right one for him? Nope.

Mook · Post by **Mook** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 10:48 pm

JHawk - I agree Roy may have wielded some power, but I think you misunderstood my point about this. My point was that of course Roy would try to gain power and leverage but it is the job of the AD and Chancellor to control their people. If the AD/Chancellor don't do this, then what happens is their fault.

Most coaches will try to get as much power/leverage as they can. If they succeed in gaining too much it is the fault of others, in this case Hemenway and Bohl.

Also - Roy was there with Adonis Jordan as well. Jordan was the first recruit Roy signed at Kansas, he committed even though KU was on probation. For that reason he was always near and dear to Roy and the KU nation. Roy came to KU for the 1988/89 season, the year after they won the championship.

Now, JHawk, this is a question and I'm not trying to be insulting. Did you start following KU before Roy Williams got to KU or during his tenure? I ask this question because I have some nephews who are really incensed about Roy and overestimate his importance at KU. That is because he is all they knew as a coach and therefore totally associated KU and Roy Williams. Having followed KU since the Ted Owens era, I have seen changes and it makes it easier to roll with things. Hell, Larry Brown did damn near the same thing that Roy did, in 1988, but nobody jumped his ass. Anyway, in my opinion KU is better off with Bill Self than Roy Williams for the following reasons, Self is younger, a better recruiter and an equal coach. Anyway, I'm not slamming you on the how long you've been following KU question, I'm just curious.

And I am very aware of the goings on in Lawrence...just remember, everything you hear and read isn't necessarily gospel.

Mook · Post by **Mook** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 11:00 pm

And one final thing - I think Roy did intend to stay at Kansas when he turned down UNC the first time. He obviously did not think the opportunity would come again. When it did, he changed his mind and "went back on his word". BFD. Like I said, I think everyone is better off for it, so I'm happy.

Anyway, my two cents.

JHawkBCD · Post by **JHawkBCD** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 11:15 pm

Mook wrote:it is the job of the AD and Chancellor to control their people. If the AD/Chancellor don't do this, then what happens is their fault.

Most coaches will try to get as much power/leverage as they can. If they succeed in gaining too much it is the fault of others, in this case Hemenway and Bohl.

Agreed.

Also - Roy was there with Adonis Jordan as well. Jordan was the first recruit Roy signed at Kansas, he committed even though KU was on probation. For that reason he was always near and dear to Roy and the KU nation. Roy came to KU for the 1988/89 season, the year after they won the championship.

Well aware of all of that.

Now, JHawk, this is a question and I'm not trying to be insulting. Did you start following KU before Roy Williams got to KU or during his tenure? I ask this question because I have some nephews who are really incensed about Roy and overestimate his importance at KU. That is because he is all they knew as a coach and therefore totally associated KU and Roy Williams.

I moved from Connecticut to Kansas in 1987, still in high school. Got caught up in the whole "Danny & The Miracles" team that won the championship in 1988, so I got to watch Larry Brown's last season. Been a fan ever since, strengthened by my time at KU as an engineering student from 91-93.

As far as Roy's importance... I don't see KU as having lost both legs because Roy Williams left... but you have to admit that Roy was a charismatic representative of a legendary hoops program for close to 15 years, so it was really easy for the KU fan base to want to take him for his word.

Having followed KU since the Ted Owens era, I have seen changes and it makes it easier to roll with things. Hell, Larry Brown did damn near the same thing in 1988, but nobody jumped his ass.

I remember Larry Brown getting quite a bit of shit, though probably not as severe as Roy... mostly because Brown got KU the big prize, and Roy did not. I can safely say that Roy would have not gotten quite as much shit if he didn't cry a river in the middle of The Phog and tell everyone how he had "unfinished business", only to have a different idea of what finishing the business than what the fan base did.

Anyway, in my opinion KU is better off with Bill Self than Roy Williams for the following reasons, Self is younger, a better recruiter and an equal coach.

Agree with almost all of that, except the part about being an "equal coach". Self coaches the physical side of the game that Roy Williams never fully grasped. It shows in the way that KU no longer gets beaten up in the paint like they used to under Roy. It also shows in the way that UNC got bullied around at times in the Duke game, especially when they tried to get to the inside to trigger a final shot, only to be battered around the perimeter and frustrated into running out the clock without even firing up a desperation fling.

I'll never forget the way that Greg Ostertag and Scot Pollard, two of KU's "biggest guys" during the Roy Williams era, got beaten down and bullied in the tournament against a more physical University of Virginia team in 1995. That was a microcosm of the Roy era. Sure, the up-tempo style is great fanfare, and some of those fast break scores make the Sportscenter highlights, but the hard fought points in the paint were not being scored by KU, they were being scored by the stronger teams. KU only went deeper into the last two tournaments under Roy because Roy finally started geting some guys in Nick Collison, Paul Pierce, and Wayne Simien, and even Kirk Hinrich's slashing at times, that could bang around in the paint and not get the shit knocked out of them.

I am very aware of the goings on in Lawrence...just remember, everything you hear and read isn't necessarily gospel.

True dat, but I didn't necessarily drink the Huckleberry Hound Kool Aid, either.

The truth is somewhere in between, and that's why I don't hate Roy Williams, but I do have some disrespect for him for the way he left. I'll go back to respecting him about the time he loses a few games and starts having to take the heat from the Tar Heel faithful.