Euro, your comments...

[Van]

B, you also seem to be forgetting the obvious: Uninsured or not, people in this country still receive treatment when they show up at the hospital.

That's just one of the cost issues with illegal aliens that keeps driving up the cost of healthcare for those of us who do pay for our own...

[socal]

B, you also seem to be forgetting the obvious: Uninsured or not, people in this country still receive treatment when they show up at the hospital.

That's just one of the cost issues with illegal aliens that keeps driving up the cost of healthcare for those of us who do pay for our own...

When they show up seriously ill at the hospital. Could they not benefit from some preventative care outside of an overflow county hospital that you'd never step foot in?

[BSmack]

B, you also seem to be forgetting the obvious: Uninsured or not, people in this country still receive treatment when they show up at the hospital.

That's just one of the cost issues with illegal aliens that keeps driving up the cost of healthcare for those of us who do pay for our own...

When they show up seriously ill at the hospital. Could they not benefit from some preventative care outside of an overflow county hospital that you'd never step foot in?

DING!!!

Hit the nail on the head.

Also, the costs associated with uninsured people using ERs as primary care services get passed on to all of us in the form of higher insurance premiums and co-pays. So we're paying the tax wether we like it or not. We just aren't getting the service we could be getting in return.

[smackaholic]

Also, I have already posted (and you have ignored) evidence showing that even those who are insured, but who are of lower income, also have lower levels of care than those in nationalized systems.

What evidence might that be? I guess it's the catch all life expectancy figures.

Where I work, VPs have the same choices of health insurance plans as the 8 dollar an hour flunky. And, I would be willing to bet that the flunky is gonna whine more about it since paying the copays is gonna hurt him more.

One question for the socialize med crowd. Why stop there. How 'bout putting food distribution in the hands of the gubmint. Is it fair that rich folk be allowed to eat better than poor? Wouldn't we all eat healthier, and perhaps even raise the life expectancy if some gubmint dietician saw to it that I ate better?

[BSmack]

What evidence might that be?

Even when insured, below-average-income Americans under the age of 65 were more likely to report access problems and delays than insured, above-average-income adults.

BTW: You work for a place that pays people 8 dollars an hour? How the fuck do you people sleep at night?

[Mikey]

I guess Van has never been to the Carribbean, if he thinks there's no poverty on any of those islands.

Hong Kong, Macao and Singapore as well.

[smackaholic]

What evidence might that be?

Even when insured, below-average-income Americans under the age of 65 were more likely to report access problems and delays than insured, above-average-income adults.

BTW: You work for a place that pays people 8 dollars an hour? How the fuck do you people sleep at night?

That link states that poor folks in the US are less satisfied than rich folks in the US. I won't argue this. I think this has to do with a few different factors.

I think that higher income folks, as a rule are a bit brighter more insistent that they be well served by the system. They know that they can make the system work. Poor folks on the other hand are more likely to just bitch and whine about how bad it is.

The poor also tend to have shittier diets and excercise less. They are less healthy and therefore it would be normal to expect that they are less satisfied. Healthy people tend to be satisfied with theur care as they don't need much. This link doesn't mention the correlation between satisfaction with service and income amongst socialized medicine countries. I think this is the case because this website has an axe to grind. I suspect that they are pro socialized medicine.

[Van]

B, you also seem to be forgetting the obvious: Uninsured or not, people in this country still receive treatment when they show up at the hospital.

That's just one of the cost issues with illegal aliens that keeps driving up the cost of healthcare for those of us who do pay for our own...

When they show up seriously ill at the hospital. Could they not benefit from some preventative care outside of an overflow county hospital that you'd never step foot in?

DING!!!

Hit the nail on the head.

Also, the costs associated with uninsured people using ERs as primary care services get passed on to all of us in the form of higher insurance premiums and co-pays. So we're paying the tax wether we like it or not. We just aren't getting the service we could be getting in return.

Agreed.

SoCal, how many of us actually go to hospitals (good, bad or otherwise) for preventative care? I know I sure as hell don't and I'm guessing you don't either. I don't go to the hospital until it's....time to go to the fucking hoispital.

:-)

Mikey, yes, I've been to the Caribbean. Jamaica, to be precise. Lots of poverty there, obviously.

Look at my list. I listed a decent number of factors. I didn't limit it to poverty or to who's paying the healthcare bill...

[socal]

Well, duh.

I'm talking doctor visits outside hospital visits. Lots of peeps are clogging up hospital ER's with health issues that can be handled elsewhere.

[Van]

And how much extra above and beyond the already absurdly high prices we pay now are you willing to pay for them to have that ability?

Look, in theory I have no problem with nationalized healthcare.

In theory. However, if it's going to be like Britain's system and if we're to find ourselves in the 50% Plus tax bracket in order to make such a program work then no thanks.

Personally, yep, call me heartless but I really don't wish to subsidize the poor and indigent anymore than I already am. My taxes are already too high and I sure as fuck don't wish to begin paying even more for the welfare class....

[socal]

No one wants to pay more taxes, Van. Of course, I'm sure you don't want more of your income allocated to your own skyrocketing medical insurance either. What say we find a better way to use our resources.

[Van]

Sooo, it's legalized prostitution you're espousing then, eh?

Sweet.

:-)

[socal]

That Impala upholsterer in Amsterdam just swooned.

[Van]

That guy? He swooned?

Had to be the mescaline.