Pat Gillick doesn't know it

[jiminphilly]

but I'm working on behalf of him and the Phillies to trade Bobby Abreu. I've had it with this lazy piece of shit. Dude always puts up nice offensive numbers by the end of the season and as a result people who don't see him play every day wonder why his name is always mentioned as the player the Phillies need to trade. What you don't know is he refuses to bat anywhere else in the lineup by 3rd despite being a perfect lead off hitter because of his OBP. He works the count pretty well and usually generates the most walks.

His fielding is awful and yes I know he won a Gold Glove last year. If you're lucky enough to have seen one of the greatest catches of all time and I am referring to Rowand's catch and crash in CF a few weeks ago then you might want to try and catch the highlights of last nights Phillies/Mets game in which Bobby takes the wrong track on a file ball heading to the wall. In doing so stops a good 5-6 feet short of the wall because he has reached the dreaded warning track (he treats that area like it's the edge of a cliff) and avoids making any attempt at catching the ball.

This is not a new occurrance. In fact it's typical Bobby. What is more extraordinary is that after Rowand's catch Bobby mentioned how a catch like that would motivate him to be more aggressive in the field.



It was a joke that he won the Gold Glove last year and it proved what a joke that award has become.

So I'm taking offers. Delucci can probably take Abreu's spot so I'm looking for front line pitching and a bench OF or a prospect from your farm you don't have room for.

We might be willing to eat some of Bobby's inflated salary, depending on the offer.

[helmet]

This is the problem with PhillyFan. They'd rather have a league average guy who will run into a wall than an All-Star who won't - and that's why the Phillies haven't won shit since 1993.

Do you want Howard to take a header into the seats going after a foul ball?

[jiminphilly]

This is the problem with PhillyFan. They'd rather have a league average guy who will run into a wall than an All-Star who won't - and that's why the Phillies haven't won shit since 1993.

Do you want Howard to take a header into the seats going after a foul ball?

If you knew anything about the team from 1993 you'd know that every player on that team was an Aaron Rowand type.. They would all crash into the wall, crash into the catcher or do whatever it took to win a ball game. It was the only reason they made it to the World Series to begin with. There were no true all-stars on that team.

Abreu is a marginal all-star at best, who should be playing DH in the American League. He is hurting the team with his non-chalant attitude in the outfield. You'd never see Jim Edmonds back away from the wall or Scott Rolen avoid the rail for a ball. They just play the game the right way. They hustle, they play hurt and those results show in the standings.

If philly fan's are at fault for demanding the players for their teams play the right way then so be it.

[BBMarley]

Rack Jim for this! Abreu is a joke. He refuses to go hard after balls, hardly ever dives to get something out of his reach, refuses to bat lead off b/c it will hurt his RBI stats, etc... But Jim- try and get rid of Manuel as well. He is a fucking moron. Used up his bull-pen over an inning and a half- making it neccesary to leave Mdson in for 105 pitches... Asshole!

Helmet- I don't consider someone an Allstar if they refuse to give 100%. Trade Abreu- and move Victorino to right field.

[jiminphilly]

Rack Jim for this! Abreu is a joke. He refuses to go hard after balls, hardly ever dives to get something out of his reach, refuses to bat lead off b/c it will hurt his RBI stats, etc... But Jim- try and get rid of Manuel as well. He is a fucking moron. Used up his bull-pen over an inning and a half- making it neccesary to leave Mdson in for 105 pitches... Asshole!

Helmet- I don't consider someone an Allstar if they refuse to give 100%. Trade Abreu- and move Victorino to right field.

I like Victorino off the bench.. I think he gets exposed if he starts. Delucci has decent numbers as a starter so I'd be ok starting him.

As for Uncle Charlie.. I've already said my piece about him. All the Phillies need to do is look at the Tigers and who is managing them and then shoot themselves in the foot for not hiring Leyland.

[rozy]

RACK H

What a stupid freaking thread. Not that I am surprised coming from fans that booed Santa. Stick to making Bonds signs.

Abreu in the leadoff spot?

[Roofer]

Bill Stoneman says he'll give you...errrr....Gillick Juan Rivera, JC Romero and a PTBNL for Abreu and Fultz.


Deal.......or no deal?

[jiminphilly]

RACK H

What a stupid freaking thread. Not that I am surprised coming from fans that booed Santa. Stick to making Bonds signs.

Abreu in the leadoff spot?

The ignorance continues.. Santa was booed in 1967 or something like that.. long before I was born and few thousand other fans. He was also drunk off his ass and half dressed (beard falling off, stumbling etc..).

Abreu has the best on base % and most walks on the team. He looks to walk almost every time he is up to the plate. Considering the Phillies don't have a legit lead off hitter (forget Rollins he's an admitted free swinger at the plate) he makes the most sense.


You were saying Rozy?

[rozy]

You were saying Rozy?

Exactly what I said before.

Berkman leads the Stros in OBP and is continually in the top 5 in walks.
Pujols leads the Cards in OBP.

You are trying to make some kind of point. Care to mix some common freaking baseball sense in?

Abreu has topped 100 RBIs in the last 4 out of 5 years.

Leadoff hitter? Because he walks? With Pat "the Bat" hitting behind him?

He has scored over 100 runs in 5 of the last 6 years. The time he missed he scored 99.

Leadoff hitter? With Pat hitting behind him?

Like I said, stick to cheering Wide Receivers with neck injuries...

So he's not Big Papi. Who is? Should Barry have been a leadoff hitter?

Dumbass...

[jiminphilly]

You're looking at it from the wrong perspective, Rozy. At least the Cardinals have a lead off hitter in Eckstein who knows that role and the expectations of batting in that location and Pujols is the best player in baseball so his ALL of his stats look good compared to anyone right now.

The Astros are ranked 21st in the league in runs scored so whether they use Berkman or someone else they might want to address that issue soon. (for the record Ensberg has a better .OBP than Berkman but he is also among the leaders in HR and seems to be doing just fine in the 4 hole).

The Phillies are ranked 18th in the league in runs scored. With the lineup they have, it should not be difficult for them to score runs but the stats say otherwise. Why do you think that is? Could it be that Rollins has a paltry .310 OBP and for his career it's .327? If you've followed Rollins career you'd know that he is a free swinger with absolutely no idea what it means to bat lead off. The argument to have Abreu bad lead off is not a new one. Anyone with a brain can look over the Phillies lineup and see the only person on that team who knows how to work a count, and get on base it's Abreu. The Phillies could easily fill the #3 whole with Utley who would probably put up better stats than Abreu.

So unless someone on the Phillies suddenly develops the mindset that you need in a leadoff hitter, the best option at this point is to put the one player that can produce from that spot in the lineup without adversely taking anything away from the #3 hole.

Incidently, the Phillies and Astros are both struggling to score runs, neither one is getting consistent pitching and their records are almost identical. I'm suprised you don't see the similarities.

[jiminphilly]

Bill Stoneman says he'll give you...errrr....Gillick Juan Rivera, JC Romero and a PTBNL for Abreu and Fultz.


Deal.......or no deal?

No deal. Rivera is a nice OF but with the loss of Hammels I need pitching. Will you trade me a bag of balls for Cory Lidle?

[rozy]

You're looking at it from the wrong perspective, Rozy. At least the Cardinals have a lead off hitter in Eckstein who knows that role and the expectations of batting in that location and Pujols is the best player in baseball so his ALL of his stats look good compared to anyone right now.

The Astros are ranked 21st in the league in runs scored so whether they use Berkman or someone else they might want to address that issue soon. (for the record Ensberg has a better .OBP than Berkman but he is also among the leaders in HR and seems to be doing just fine in the 4 hole).

The Phillies are ranked 18th in the league in runs scored. With the lineup they have, it should not be difficult for them to score runs but the stats say otherwise. Why do you think that is? Could it be that Rollins has a paltry .310 OBP and for his career it's .327? If you've followed Rollins career you'd know that he is a free swinger with absolutely no idea what it means to bat lead off. The argument to have Abreu bad lead off is not a new one. Anyone with a brain can look over the Phillies lineup and see the only person on that team who knows how to work a count, and get on base it's Abreu. The Phillies could easily fill the #3 whole with Utley who would probably put up better stats than Abreu.

So unless someone on the Phillies suddenly develops the mindset that you need in a leadoff hitter, the best option at this point is to put the one player that can produce from that spot in the lineup without adversely taking anything away from the #3 hole.

Incidently, the Phillies and Astros are both struggling to score runs, neither one is getting consistent pitching and their records are almost identical. I'm suprised you don't see the similarities.

I'm looking at one of the top and most consistent run producers over the last 6 years in the NL. You don't put a run producer in the lead off spot. The ONLY argument in your favor is his propensity for stealing bases. I guess that means Vlad and Bonds should have been leadoff hitters... And I'll send a note to Don Baylor that he screwed Larry Walker's career up by not batting leadoff.

It is NICE to have a leadoff hitter that can draw walks. It is also very rare. The right guy is at the top of your order. Funny how Nomar set the record for RBIs by a leadoff hitter.........and then was SWIFTLY moved out of the leadoff spot.

[jiminphilly]

The right guy is at the top of your order.

He is?

Rollins has a career .326 OPB. That's terrible.

The goal of your lead off hitter is to get on base, whether it by hit or walk. Rollins' max walks in a season is only 57. He is far too agressive at the plate and hardly works the count. I can't tell you how many times I've seen him swing and miss at a 3-0 fastball that's out of the strikezone. Don't let a 40 game hitting streak make you think he's a great hitter because he's not.

Abreu doesn't have to be the RBI man in this lineup anymore. With the emergence of Ryan Howard and Chase Utley, Abreu would be the perfect guy to lead off for this team simply because he is the only one with the correct mindset. He's not the long term solution but neither is Rollins and based on the Phillies offensive production this year, things are not looking too good.

[helmet]

Seriously. Do you want Ryan Howard to take a header into the stands to catch a foul ball?

[BBMarley]

I want to see every player on my team give 110%.

Abreu shied away from a play yesterday becasue he didn't want to hit the PADDED WALL! That is unacceptable...

[jiminphilly]

Seriously. Do you want Ryan Howard to take a header into the stands to catch a foul ball?

Why not? Phils pitching is so bad they need every out they can get.

But seriously, when you start asking players to not go all out you're asking them to put themselves above the team. Injuries are apart of the game and can happen in the freakiest circumstances so I'm not going to expect players to avoid being aggressive.

(and a player taking a header into the stands for a ball happens a whole lot less than an outfielder going for a ball against the wall).


With Scott Rolen being so injury prone are you going to expect him to become more of a statue on 3rd or not be the aggressive base runner? Or would you prefer he play the game the only way he knows how which gives the Cardinals the best chance to win?

You're lying if you say you want Rolen to back off.

[rozy]

Sorry but that's a crock. I don't want any Stro to "get hurt" (other than Preston Lane). Rowand has missed how much time now? Over 1 out? Go all out, sure, but excersize some common sense in the process. There are 162 games.

Ever heard of Carlos Hernandez? Yeah, he went all out diving back into second base and ruined his freaking career. How's Griffey done the last few years? Bet the Reds would have liked to have had that bat in the lineup. Don't get me wrong, I admire Rowand now, as before I viewed him as an overated doofus that looked more like Ron Cey with broom up his ass than a major league hitter. I respect the effort but the results were a stint on the DL. For one freaking out.

You DON'T move your best run producer into the leadoff spot just because he is good at taking walks. Dumbass argument, Jim. Even in Swahili...

[jiminphilly]

Sorry but that's a crock. I don't want any Stro to "get hurt" (other than Preston Lane). Rowand has missed how much time now? Over 1 out? Go all out, sure, but excersize some common sense in the process. There are 162 games.

The bases were loaded with 2 outs. If he pulls up short like Bobby would have, the Mets score 3 runs in the first inning. Based on the Phillies inability to score runs this year, it was more than just an out. It kept 3 runs off the board. BTW.. the Phillies went on to win that game 2-0.

Ever heard of Carlos Hernandez? Yeah, he went all out diving back into second base and ruined his freaking career.

Sounds like he needs to learn how to stretch before a game.

How's Griffey done the last few years? Bet the Reds would have liked to have had that bat in the lineup.

Griffey is a pussy. Seattle and Reds fans will tell you that. Griffey gets hurt jogging to first on a walk.

Don't get me wrong, I admire Rowand now, as before I viewed him as an overated doofus that looked more like Ron Cey with broom up his ass than a major league hitter. I respect the effort but the results were a stint on the DL. For one freaking out.

I already explained the significance of the catch.

You DON'T move your best run producer into the leadoff spot just because he is good at taking walks. Dumbass argument, Jim. Even in Swahili

He isn't the team's best run producer anymore. As I said, Utley and Howard have taken over that role. I don't begrudge anyone that looks at Abreu's stats and wonders why Philly fans dislike this guy so much. But watch a few games and you'll understand.