Atrocities at Haditha

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Wed May 31, 2006 12:43 am

Nope, nothing like this ever happens in a war time environment:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/05/28/ ... index.html

And surprise, surprise...CNN and John Murtha are trying to milk it for all it's worth.

These bleeding heart cunts need to stuff a sock in their gaping twats.

Civilian casualties are part and parcel of war...that's why we fight it on foreign soil, you dumbfucks. Don't want that nastiness spread at home.

So a few Marines got pissed and went postal when their buddy got blown to bits? Color me shocked and appalled, if that salves your irritated labia.

bbqjones · Post by **bbqjones** » Wed May 31, 2006 1:40 am

mvscal, youve turned into quite the pussy this year. if there were a war here at home* , you think the camelfuckers would think twice about killing innocent civilians"./>>l,

*bwahahahaha

Dr_Phibes · Post by **Dr_Phibes** » Wed May 31, 2006 2:49 am

mvscal wrote:
If true Murtha's story of an "unprovoked massacre" is complete garbage, though.

This looks grim. Just wondering how bucketloads of little girls shot in the back of the head might be construed as a 'provoked massacre'.

Anyway, I'll go ahead and RACK Joachim Piper, always been a serious fan and felt he got the short end of the stick. Hopefully all this 'heat of battle' stuff will help history put him in the proper context.

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Wed May 31, 2006 2:57 am

mvscal wrote:
War Wagon wrote:So a few Marines got pissed and went postal when their buddy got blown to bits?
If true and it's a big 'if', it would be a problem. Murder is a serious crime regardless of circumstance. Murtha's story of an "unprovoked massacre" is complete garbage, though.

I can wait for the report. These guys have earned the benefit of the doubt.

Mebbe so, but war is fucking hell. We don't need some panty waist on CNN, or some politician looking to score brownie points, decrying the inhumanity of it all and passing pre-mature judgement on some fed up Marines.

Tom In VA · Post by **Tom In VA** » Wed May 31, 2006 3:04 am

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 46_pf.html

Sunday, May 28, 2006; B06

A year ago I was charged with two counts of premeditated murder and with other war crimes related to my service in Iraq. My wife and mother sat in a Camp Lejeune courtroom for five days while prosecutors painted me as a monster; then autopsy evidence blew their case out of the water, and the Marine Corps dropped all charges against me ["Marine Officer Cleared in Killing of Two Iraqis," news story, May 27, 2005].

So I know something about rushing to judgment, which is why I am so disturbed by the remarks of Rep. John P. Murtha (D-Pa.) regarding the Haditha incident ["Death Toll Rises in Haditha Attack, GOP Leader Says," news story, May 20]. Mr. Murtha said, "Our troops overreacted because of the pressure on them, and they killed innocent civilians in cold blood."

In the United States, we have a civil and military court system that relies on an investigatory and judicial process to make determinations based on evidence. The system is not served by such grand pronouncements of horror and guilt without the accuser even having read the investigative report.

Mr. Murtha's position is particularly suspect when he is quoted by news services as saying that the strain of deployment "has caused them [the Marines] to crack in situations like this." Not only is he certain of the Marines' guilt but he claims to know the cause, which he conveniently attributes to a policy he opposes.

Members of the U.S. military serving in Iraq need more than Mr. Murtha's pseudo-sympathy. They need leaders to stand with them even in the hardest of times. Let the courts decide if these Marines are guilty. They haven't even been charged with a crime yet, so it is premature to presume their guilt -- unless that presumption is tied to a political motive.

ILARIO PANTANO

Jacksonville, N.C.

The writer served as a Marine enlisted man in the Persian Gulf War and most recently as a platoon commander in Iraq.

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Wed May 31, 2006 3:12 am

KC Paul 3.0 wrote:Murtha is a fucking jerkoff- he's shooting his cakehole off as if he KNOWS exactly what happened there. He DOES know than as Americans we are innocent until PROVEN guilty, right???

Apparently, a Marine serving in Iraq is not accorded this trivial custom.

Dr_Phibes · Post by **Dr_Phibes** » Wed May 31, 2006 3:13 am

mvscal wrote:
Dr_Phibes wrote:Just wondering how bucketloads of little girls shot in the back of the head might be construed as a 'provoked massacre'.

Shot by whom?

Sorry, there's no way in hell a platoon of Marines just rolled out of the rack one morning and decided to massacre 24 civilians for kicks. Especially when those murders would make their jobs decidedly more difficult and dangerous.

"Insurgents", on the other hand, routinely murder civilians in cold blood.

I've read the bit about the man killed by the IED - thus the massacre. Also, numerous articles by marines saying that you require permission to clear houses, for what that's worth.

And none of this 'insurgents' crap, unconventional means belong to an unconventional army - from a propagandist standpoint, the fact that an organised, professional army operating under the premise of the moral highground is smashed. It knocks down the 'all mussies are mad' nonsense in a flash.

Atomic Punk · Post by **Atomic Punk** » Wed May 31, 2006 3:22 am

Phibes is a piece of shit. Next topic.

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Wed May 31, 2006 3:23 am

Dr_Phibes wrote: the fact that an organised, professional army operating under the premise of the moral highground is smashed...

Huh?

You had best tell the Marines that.

mothster · Post by **mothster** » Wed May 31, 2006 3:28 am

murtha is not an idiot

unfortunately he doesn't lock step with the ultra right

Dr_Phibes · Post by **Dr_Phibes** » Wed May 31, 2006 3:28 am

mvscal wrote:
Dr_Phibes wrote:I've read the bit about the man killed by the IED - thus the massacre. Also, numerous articles by marines saying that you require permission to clear houses, for what that's worth.
Yes, you typically do unless of course you're taking fire from those homes. You do understand that using occupied civilian homes as firing positions is a war crime, don't you? Or is your concern for war crimes selective?

from a propagandist standpoint...
Now we're getting somewhere. That is what this is all about.

Sorry, I should put that first bit in context - they were making the point that the men couldn't have gone in shooting without higher up permission, thus the worries about an organised massacre as they weren't taking fire from the houses. And I think Murtha is a cunt, but he was on BBC today saying that he had spoken to people involved so he probably does have some superior insight.

"That is what this is all about."

exactly.

FLW Buckeye · Post by **FLW Buckeye** » Wed May 31, 2006 3:31 am

With Murtha being an ex-Marine, you think he would STFU until the facts are out.

Too bad that the Marines isn't using that POS as a Polish IED detector.

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Wed May 31, 2006 3:41 am

Dr_Phibes wrote:And I think Murtha is a cunt, but he was on BBC today saying that he had spoken to people involved so he probably does have some superior insight.

Case closed then.

Based on what Murtha told the BBC, I'd say that these Marines should receive one of the following by the court administering the UCMJ:

a: Firing Squad
b: Dishonorable Discharge
c: Article 15
d: Medal of Valor

'scuse the fuck outta' me, but I'll always give the boys the benefit of the doubt.

"d" it is.

Dr_Phibes · Post by **Dr_Phibes** » Wed May 31, 2006 3:49 am

88 wrote:Has there been any credible news reporting on the incident yet? Seems most of the stuff written so far has been very vague. How many were killed? Anyone got a good link? I haven't read up on this one yet.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0526/dailyUpdate.html

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Wed May 31, 2006 3:57 am

Dr_Phibes wrote:
88 wrote:Has there been any credible news reporting on the incident yet? Seems most of the stuff written so far has been very vague. How many were killed? Anyone got a good link? I haven't read up on this one yet.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0526/dailyUpdate.html

he asked for "credible" news reporting, dumbfuck.

See that Red X in the upper right hand corner of your screen?

Get there.

WhatsMyName · Post by **WhatsMyName** » Wed May 31, 2006 5:11 am

War Wagon wrote:
Dr_Phibes wrote:
88 wrote:Has there been any credible news reporting on the incident yet? Seems most of the stuff written so far has been very vague. How many were killed? Anyone got a good link? I haven't read up on this one yet.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0526/dailyUpdate.html
he asked for "credible" news reporting, dumbfuck.

See that Red X in the upper right hand corner of your screen?

Get there.

Solid.

RadioFan · Post by **RadioFan** » Wed May 31, 2006 5:23 am

Just because TV and talk radio are just now on this story doesn't make it new, Wags. It was first reported in March. Apparently, the White House wasn't aware of it until it was about to be reported, either.

Bush learned of Haditha deaths from press

WASHINGTON - President Bush learned of reports that U.S. Marines killed two dozen unarmed Iraqi civilians only after reporters began asking questions, the White House said Tuesday.

Asked when Bush was first briefed about the events in Haditha, an insurgent stronghold in western Iraq, White House press secretary Tony Snow replied Tuesday: "When a Time reporter first made the call."

Time magazine was first to report, in March, that the U.S. military was investigating a dozen Marines for possible war crimes in the November incident. The killings, which included women and children, came after a bomb rocked a military convoy on Nov. 19, killing a Marine.

Marines then shot and killed unarmed civilians in a taxi at the scene and went into homes and shot other people, according to Rep. John Murtha, D-Pa., a decorated Marine war veteran and prominent critic of Iraq policy who has talked with military officials.

Bush was briefed on the incident and investigation by his national security adviser, Stephen Hadley, Snow said. He would not detail Bush's personal involvement since.

"I think anybody who's heard the story has a personal interest and it's impossible not to," he said. "But the president also is allowing the chain of command to do what it's supposed to do in the Department of Defense, which is to complete an investigation. The Marines are taking an active and aggressive role in this."

Snow said that he has been assured by the Pentagon that "all the details" will be given to the public once the investigation is over. "We'll have a picture of what happened," Snow said.

Bizzarofelice · Post by **Bizzarofelice** » Wed May 31, 2006 12:55 pm

Lt.WilliamCalleyscal wrote:Sorry, there's no way in hell a platoon of Marines just rolled out of the rack one morning and decided to massacre 24 civilians for kicks.

Cicero · Post by **Cicero** » Wed May 31, 2006 1:12 pm

Oh well. Next.

Derron · Post by **Derron** » Wed May 31, 2006 1:41 pm

With Murtha being an ex-Marine, you think he would STFU until the facts are out.

I am not a Marine, nor a veteran. I have 2 boys in the Corps, and I have sat through 4 graduation ceromony's at MCRD San Diego in the last year.

One thing that is stressed is that once a Marine, always a Marine. Murtha should keep his pie hole shut and let due process take its path. By his statements he wants to deny these soliders that due process.

wait for higher up permission to clear the houses

Righttttt... dime up HQ boys, we need to make sure none of these Iraqi cocksuckers hit us with another RPG while we wait for "permission" to make sure we don't get hit again.

Portions of this war are being fought in the field, not by the REMF's that fucked it all up in Nam.

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Wed May 31, 2006 2:03 pm

mvscal wrote:
Dr_Phibes wrote:Just wondering how bucketloads of little girls shot in the back of the head might be construed as a 'provoked massacre'.

Shot by whom?

Sorry, there's no way in hell a platoon of Marines just rolled out of the rack one morning and decided to massacre 24 civilians for kicks. Especially when those murders would make their jobs decidedly more difficult and dangerous.

"Insurgents", on the other hand, routinely murder civilians in cold blood.

Nah, that kind of shit never happens.

sin

Long term systematic abuse of prisoners at Abu Ghraib.

Why to you fuckers think that the prisoner abuse scandal was such a big horking deal to begin with? Because rational sane humans understand that once the process of dehumanizing the people you are ostensibly trying to help sets in, that it is not exactly a big leap from being Lyndie England to William Calley.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Wed May 31, 2006 2:12 pm

Bri, I've decided that you're just a hopeless idiot.

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Wed May 31, 2006 2:17 pm

poptart wrote:Bri, I've decided that you're just a hopeless idiot.

Having decided that, why don't you go fuck a tennis racquet.

PS: Here's what Rueters is reporting.

mothster · Post by **mothster** » Wed May 31, 2006 2:33 pm

White House: All details on Haditha to be made public
The results of an investigation into the killings last year of 24 Iraqi civilians in Haditha will be released to the public when the Marine Corps' probe is complete, the White House says. Military investigators suspect a small number of Marines snapped after one of their own was killed by a bomb and went on a rampage, sources say

Bizzarofelice · Post by **Bizzarofelice** » Wed May 31, 2006 2:44 pm

mothster wrote:Military investigators suspect a small number of Marines snapped after one of their own was killed by a bomb and went on a rampage, sources say

Obviously those investigators are stupid liberals with no balls and hate America.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Wed May 31, 2006 2:50 pm

Bizzarofelice wrote:
mothster wrote:Military investigators suspect a small number of Marines snapped after one of their own was killed by a bomb and went on a rampage, sources say
Obviously those investigators are stupid liberals with no balls and hate America.

No, but any American still wringing hands and posting Abu Ghraib pics on message boards has no balls.

Hates America ... ?

Hmmmmm..........

Cicero · Post by **Cicero** » Wed May 31, 2006 2:53 pm

Bizz has roast beef drapes.

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Wed May 31, 2006 3:00 pm

poptart wrote:No, but any American still wringing hands and posting Abu Ghraib pics on message boards has no balls.

What's yer problem 'tart? Still not able to compose a coherent post?

Simply put, Abu Ghraib is the logical evolutionary precursor to this kind of massacre. Back when Abu Ghraib first went down, people with common sense said that if this pattern of abuse was not checked that it would be a stepping stone to even worse abuse.

Oh that's right. The jury is still "out" on evolution down where you live.

Luther · Post by **Luther** » Wed May 31, 2006 3:02 pm

Never having been in a war, but, numerous times while being in some shithole neighborhood...late at night...and you're trying to arrest somebody and the people turn on you...the most common reaction is, "Fuck these son of a bitches, go to hell, die you mofo's for all I care."

It takes great restraint to keep things in perspective. Trying to help people and then having it shoved back in your face is one thing, but having some of your friends killed just warps the mind. I know the early reports are that this could be tragic, but I just hope the truth makes it to the top when it is all said and done.

I have a feeling that this one is "going to leave a mark."

Rip City

Bizzarofelice · Post by **Bizzarofelice** » Wed May 31, 2006 3:03 pm

poptart wrote:No, but any American still wringing hands and posting Abu Ghraib pics on message boards has no balls.

I think those pics are an excellent example of how the soldiers are not above doing something stupid.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Wed May 31, 2006 3:14 pm

Nobody said that some of our soldiers are above stupidity, Bace.

They're prone to being .... human.
That's a fucking given.

Why does the media (and over-thinking pseudo-intellectual douchebags like BSchlepp) see a need to keep ramming the Abu Ghraib bullshit down the throats of Americans ... ?

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Wed May 31, 2006 3:16 pm

mvscal wrote:It wasn't. It becamce a "big horking deal" because our media made it one.

It became a big story because it WAS a big story. US soldiers violating the laws of decency and humanity will ALWAYS be a big story. If you don't like it, tough shit.

The people in Abu Ghraib aren't the people we're trying to help. The people in Abu Gharaib are murdering the people we are "ostensibily trying to help".

The people we are "trying" to help think this about us.

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Wed May 31, 2006 3:18 pm

poptart wrote:Why does the media (and over-thinking pseudo-intellectual douchebags like BSchlepp) see a need to keep ramming the Abu Ghraib bullshit down the throats of Americans ... ?

How surprising that "over-thinking" would be a problem in your world.

Tom In VA · Post by **Tom In VA** » Wed May 31, 2006 3:18 pm

BSmack wrote:
The people we are "trying" to help think this about us.

Nice sweeping generalization there BSmack. I can find burners on the concrete walls in and around D.C. that are as condemning of our government.

Luther · Post by **Luther** » Wed May 31, 2006 3:19 pm

[align=center]

[/align]

I haven't even finished my first cup of joe, but mvscal qualified for the penalty box and will serve 7 minutes for "hurting feelings." I doubt Bsmack was really hurt, but the mvscal's effort nonetheless still qualifies him for row 2, seat 3.

Rip City

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Wed May 31, 2006 3:20 pm

Tom In VA wrote:
BSmack wrote:
The people we are "trying" to help think this about us.

Nice sweeping generalization there BSmack. I can find burners on the concrete walls in and around D.C. that are as condemning of our government.

It's called responding in kind Tom. How about you start by smacking your own and get back to me when they stop making sweeping generalizations.

I look forward to never seeing you post again.

Tom In VA · Post by **Tom In VA** » Wed May 31, 2006 3:20 pm

BSmack wrote:
poptart wrote:Why does the media (and over-thinking pseudo-intellectual douchebags like BSchlepp) see a need to keep ramming the Abu Ghraib bullshit down the throats of Americans ... ?
How surprising that "over-thinking" would be a problem in your world.

Well you can over think something and there is such a thing as "paralysis by analysis". Feed your head.

Tom In VA · Post by **Tom In VA** » Wed May 31, 2006 3:22 pm

BSmack wrote:I look forward to never seeing you post again.

Oh puhleeeze I'll match my record of objectivity and intellectual integrity over yours any day of the week.

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Wed May 31, 2006 3:22 pm

Tom In VA wrote:
BSmack wrote:
poptart wrote:Why does the media (and over-thinking pseudo-intellectual douchebags like BSchlepp) see a need to keep ramming the Abu Ghraib bullshit down the throats of Americans ... ?
How surprising that "over-thinking" would be a problem in your world.

Well you can over think something and there is such a thing as "paralysis by analysis". Feed your head.

Sorry dude, I gave that shit up for the 90s.

OK, maybe the mid 90s.

Tom In VA · Post by **Tom In VA** » Wed May 31, 2006 3:28 pm

mvscal wrote:It's nothing but enemy propaganda that you are enthusiastically perpetuating.

RACK

T1B

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