Getting Away From Hands

[buckeye_in_sc]

Ok we all have been there...

have a very good starting hand like A/K, JJ, 1010, etc and the flop completely misses you or 2 overs hit the board...how hard or easy is it for you guys to get away from hands like these...of course against our regular crew it is pretty easy since their betting patterns are pretty easy to pick up on or some of their tells...

but early on in your poker education face it you played these hands down to the river hoping you didn't get outflopped or what not...

now a couple of hands guys in our games absolutely hang themselves on is A/Q, A/J and A/10...I have been guilty of overplaying these hands but am starting to understand the nuances of playing some of these hands...obviously the lesser the amount of players the better so hence some strong pre-flop raising is in order especially if you are in position...

any thoughts? discuss...

I am also not afraid to say I folded pocket aces face up at the river a few times...one in particular...I had pocket aces 3 handed and decided to limp (my mistake)...flop comes X/X/9...I bet get one caller other dude folds (this was the last hand of a cash game that had gone from 7 people to 3)...turn is another brick...I bet (stronger than the post flop) as I was confident my aces were still best...guy calls...so now I am like FUCK...i am facing a set or some shit like that...river is a 9...I check to see where dude is...he comes out WHAM with a huge bet...so I think for a second knowing full well my two pair were no good...so I say you got me and folded my aces face up...both of them were like wow...and the dude turns over 8/9 off he hits his trips on the river...nice fold by the way...wish I could do that more often but sadly no...

also have you ever forced someone to lay down a BIG hand preflop? Just by putting betting pressure on them? I had A/10 in mid position in a tourney...blinds were 100/200 and I had about 1700 in my stack...so I figure I'll shake the table up a littlle...I push it all in the center (stupid I know) guy in the SB goes into the tank then decides to fold his queens face up...he says will you show me what you had...I say sure...and show him (I only wish I had 2/7 off at that point)...anyway just some stories from the home games, etc...


now we can get back to the topic at hand...getting away from hands and what you look for or perhaps how do you force people off hands?

[Dinsdale]

JJ, 1010, etc

Those hands are deadly...to the guy holding them. They look sooooo pretty when you get them...and they suck. Quickest way to seperate me(and many, many players) from their chips is to deal them jacks or tens and let them beat themsleves.

I'll fold 9s 10's and Js with q quickness, unless the flop was cheap and I stay ahead, or very close to.

When I decided to parlay my 7 stud experience (game of MEN-btw) to the current "America's sweetheart" game of Hold E'm, it didn't take long to lean what pits of poverty those cards were. If the flop isn't cheap and the pair doesn't get tricked, I'm gone...no regrets, no remorse.

Now, betting people off their big hands....now you're talking complicated. That's something you work on throughout an evening, not during one hand. And possibly the most fun aspect of the game-imo. I tend to try and put on a front that I'm really nervous, but keep betting. Kind of a reverse-psychology thing...if I'm calm the rest of the time, and I suddenly act nervous, or different in any other way, the more astute players are abviously going to notice, and go through the whole "he's obviously putting on an act, but he hasn't been working it very much, and he KNOWS I KNOW he's putting on an act, so he wants me to think he has a weak hand, since from his act, he wants me to think he has a weak hand, and since he knows I know he's acting like he's got a weak hand, and he wants me to think the double opposite, he must have a strong hand...I see him working...when in doubt, fold."


^^^That made no sense...which I think kinda sums up the psychology of sitting at the table fairly nicely -- the less sense you make, the easier it is to exploit the situation. But I think it's important to assess the skill level of your opponents, before deciding how many "I know he knows that I know the he knows" deep you go.

Chess in a different format, basically. Moby's story was an awesome example of going way deep into that shit.

[Adelpiero]

i love 10 10, QQ ( even though they say that the hilton sisters(QQ) get more guys beat)

seems i get a set with 10's on more than 80% of time i get them(or so it seems) Q's i usually get a ragged flop that helps noone, or luck into straight to beat ragged 2 pair.


A10 is my ruin, i have been killed playing that garbage. A10 suited the worst.I get part of the flop, become pot committed and get ran rugged.

[Dinsdale]

I'll throw money at just about any Blackjack, unless some idiot tips their hand as to their high pair (I will never understand overbetting bullets...walk down that hill and fuck them ALL, son).


But, of all the blackjacks, A 10 can be a killer. That bracketd straight just doesn't bump your odds that much.

"Hilton sisters?"

Awesome. Obviously, a "poker slang" thread is in order. Me and mine have always called that "dikes"....AKA "cunts." JJ has always been "fags."

Have some friends who call K 8 the "kobe." If the K 8 is diamonds, it's something like "mrs. bryant's please-don't divorce me ring."

K J is "lebron," also "lebron in threads"(suited).

[Neely8]

Don't get me wrong I love AA but have lost on it a few times. Folded it once at Foxwood's and the guy was pissed as he flopped a set of kings. He wanted to get paid off but I read him pretty easily. Showed it to him and he just about flipped....

I had the table on tilt so bad one night that a guy actually folded to me once just because of the Revo glasses. "Those glasses scare the crap out of me" he says. LOVE THE REVOS!!!

[BBMarley]

My weakness is chasing gutshot straights. I have nothing else on the board... but I keep putting money in waiting for that 10 or J to drop. I know the percentages.. and I know its bad poker when I'm looking at some deadly hands on 4th street.. but I can't help myself some times.

[Dinsdale]

You chase inside straights?


Wanna get together and play cards sometime?


Chase a nut-flush if there's 3 or more people still in. (in hold em...that's just staight-up pot odds calculation))

Chase an outside straight when there's 3 or more people still in.(more straight-up pot odds)

Give or take on these numbers if you're "feeling it." Math is your friend.

Drop a non-nut flush or an insider chase like a bad habit -- your wallet will thank you.

[See You Next Wednesday]

JJ always seems to cost me a lot of money.

The funny thing about chasing is when some guy gets mad at you for chasing when he has been limping in every round. I had this guy who had a pair of KK to my AQ. (I should have raised myself, but if I recall, I was coming off a bad beat and I tend to slow way down after that and not tilt myself into bankruptcy) Flop comes up K7T. He limped in pre-flop, he limps in post flop. The turn comes 2. He limps again. There are 4 of us total in the hand, this guy, me. I keep calling of course, it's cheap! Well I got lucky and the river comes up J. So he finally bets big, I raise all-in (he had me covered), he calls and loses. Fair enough, right, you can slow play and take your chances. You just can't complain when you get sucked out on the river. But this guy did. "Unbelievable. You lucky m'fer. You just keep chasing, I'll take all your money." Me: "Shut up and take your slow-playing ass whooping like a man."

[Dinsdale]

Agreed, SYNW.

If people are going to let you chase for really cheap, they shouldn't bitch when you recoup all of those "chasing expenses" all at once.

Those same tards think they have it all figured out, and will even scold you for playing "bad poker."

Comical.

THEY were the one who let you chase shit, then let you use it to take their money.

THEY were the one who didn't raise when they were ahead.


Yet somehow, in their world, YOU are the one playing bad cards.


My theory...if you won money, you played "good cards." Don't give a shit how you did it. YOU have the dough, YOU have the BODE. I mean, how else do you read a scoreboard?


If you chased a one-in-a-million and got it...it was your time to get paid for all of those shitty chases. Chances are, tomorrow night won't be "your night" if that's how you play...but tonight? The BODE is yours.


I'm not generally one to talk about how much better I am than another player as they're walking away with my money...maybe that's just me. I may be a better player...but obviously not tonight.

[Mook]

Usually when I decide to slow-play anything I wind up kicking myself. Yes it sucks when you raise 4x the blinds with AA and only win the blinds....but it sure sucks worse to limp and lose half your stack to a 4,5,7 flop that hit the BB and his 6 3 off....through no fault of the BB!! Slowplaying should almost never happen. Although I did do it when I flopped quad nine's last night, that worked out well. Of course, I wasn't really worried about anyone "catching up", in fact that's what I wanted!!

[buckeye_in_sc]

great responses...


SC will NEVER NEVER NEVER slow play Aces/Kings/Queens/AK suited or JJ...i am going at least 4-6 times the BB for a raise (obviously the multiplier changes based on blinds if it is a tourney or who or what donkeys are at my table in a cash game)...if you are bold enough to call my raise with garbage and hit...then more power to you...i just pat the table (live) and say good hand...even online I just type in vnh or nh and move on...usually someone says sorry and I say hey you called you won no big deal...no use getting upset...all i can ask is that I have the money in the middle with the best hand...if poker kharma or the poker gods see it differently then so be it...

If I have AA and someone calls with J10 (which by the say is one of two hands that have some pretty good equity against aces according to a odds things I downloaded - preflop)...and the flop comes 10/10/10...hey what am I to do...the flop could have easily come A/A/A...that is what I don't understand that people think AA is invincible and what not...

I have two simple lines I try to live by:

If I don't flop to it...I don't chase it (more often than not of course)

and

Domination is overrated (in many cases)...

these just suit my style and with the guys I play against I have spent a couple of years building a certain image...they see me as tight and very aggressive...but when I change gears on them and go a little loose aggressive then they can't handle that for some reason...oh well BODE me I guess...

rack dins' post...i hate when people get pissed and or whatever...rack SYNW to...way to tell the slow player where to go...

my question is why do so many people slow play...obviously to milk more money...but unless you have the STONE COLD NUTS...why slow play...? why give someone a chance to catch up... or go ahead!

anyway just sayin!

[See You Next Wednesday]

If I have AA and someone calls with J10 (which by the say is one of two hands that have some pretty good equity against aces according to a odds things I downloaded - preflop)...and the flop comes 10/10/10...hey what am I to do...the flop could have easily come A/A/A...that is what I don't understand that people think AA is invincible and what not...

If you had AA and the flop came AAA I don't think I would take that very quietly.

[buckeye_in_sc]

^^^^^^^^^^^^

fucker...

yeah I meant to say AA...my bad...got hung up on the jacks and then just started typing...good lord felt like I was in Ocean's Eleven when Pitt was trying to teach them poker...dude you have 3 pair...you can't have 3 pair in a 5 card game...