How Will We Know When We've Won?

[Tom In VA]

respect throughout the Arab world.

We didn't start a war in Iraq to gain respect throughout the Arab World. Nor will we have gained it among any that aren't on our payroll...and among those that are, "respect" probably isn't the right word.

Credibility is the better word. Credibility in terms of .....

"Success will provide us with a powerful ideological weapon against Islamo-fascism and introduce a new, positive revolutionary dynamic into the region.

Failure will turn Iraq into large scale Lebanon and lead to decades of warfare, oppression and dangerous religious fanaticism. "


The whole goal of the enemy, was to get the U.S. into a ground war. Then get the American public to get wobbly kneed, which would in turn get the U.S. to withdraw.

RACK mvscal BTW.

[Rich Fader]

When Iraq's a stable, peaceful, ongoing free society, Iran's in the process of becoming one, and this twat is dead or in custody...we'll be well on the way there.

[Cicero]

And why is optimism a bad thing? The Left are the biggest bunch of pessimistic fucksticks on the planet. They cant see anything further than 3 feet in front of their face. Its not a bad thing to be forward thinking and take chances. Its very difficult and politicians put their ass and their legacy on the line. What's easy to do, is to sit back and bitch & moan when things dont go as planned, when they had nothing to contribute in the first place.

[PSUFAN]

Its not a bad thing to be forward thinking and take chances.

Fuck you, liberal faggot.

[Cicero]

Typical dumbfuck response from you.

[Rich Fader]

When Iraq's a stable, peaceful, ongoing free society, Iran's in the process of becoming one, and this twat is dead or in custody...we'll be well on the way there.

So you and mvscal think that Shi'ites, Kurdish Sunnis, and Arab Sunnis are going to suddenly become brothers and, just as suddenly, they will respect the United States, who they view as crusaders on a mission to destroy their religion?

WOW! Y'all are some serious optimists!

Never underestimate the power of the words "Be nice or I'll kill you."

[Cicero]

Its not a bad thing to be forward thinking and take chances.

Fuck you, liberal faggot.

RACK!!!

Sad thing is, he doesn't even get it.

Oh really? That is the problem w/ your kind. Your arrogance is your biggest detriment.

[Terry in Crapchester]

mvscal, you got those numbers ready for me yet? I'm waiting patiently over here.

I already called my wife and told her not to worry, that we're gonna win the Mega Millions jackpot tomorrow night. I told her that you have the ability to see into the future, and I gave her a brief rundown of your predictions in Iraq so far. She has the utmost confidence in you.

So now, if I go home without the numbers, I'll really be in the doghouse. Help a brother out.

[Terry in Crapchester]

Really, it's OK to be a dull-witted slob and wrap yourself up in inane conspiracy theories. I'm sure it is much easier for you than actual thought.

Pot, meet kettle.

[Allah Akbar]

We here at al Qaeda would like to thank all you homosexual infidels in America for siding with us over your own leader. You have helped Allah's cause immensely. Once we move in, you will be the first to have your throats cut because we have even less respect for liberal pussies than we do Bush.

Allah Akbar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Terry in Crapchester]

We here at al Qaeda would like to thank all you homosexual infidels in America for siding with us over your own leader. You have helped Allah's cause immensely. Once we move in, you will be the first to have your throats cut because we have even less respect for liberal pussies than we do Bush.

Allah Akbar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Weak.

Ankle meet retarded liberal douchebag.

As weak, if not weaker.

[Allah Akbar]

We here at al Qaeda would like to thank all you homosexual infidels in America for siding with us over your own leader. You have helped Allah's cause immensely. Once we move in, you will be the first to have your throats cut because we have even less respect for liberal pussies than we do Bush.

Allah Akbar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Weak.

"Weak" is what we here at al Qaeda count on from homosexuals like you.

Allah Akbar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Terry in Crapchester]

We here at al Qaeda would like to thank all you homosexual infidels in America for siding with us over your own leader. You have helped Allah's cause immensely. Once we move in, you will be the first to have your throats cut because we have even less respect for liberal pussies than we do Bush.

Allah Akbar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Weak.

"Weak" is what we here at al Qaeda count on from homosexuals like you.

Allah Akbar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Leave it to one of the board's righties to troll as an al-Qaeda member.

You guys really are two sides of the same coin.

[Cicero]

Spin, spin, spin Terry.

[Terry in Crapchester]

Spin, spin, spin Terry.

Read the posts and tell me that's not a rightie trolling.

Then again, you swallow the Bush talking points hook, line and sinker, so you probably think it's a real al-Qaeda member.

[Allah Akbar]

We here at al Qaeda DO have more in common with American Infidel right-wingers than liberal homosexuals in the sense that we are men with testicles. We respect strength and power, not homosexual wimpering, though we must admit the homosexual liberals are assisting the will of Allah in ways almost unimaginable. We will use them for the ends of Allah, then behead them for their perverted sex practices and feminine weakness.

Allah Akbar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Allah Akbar]

This is no joke. We here at al Qaeda pay close attention to what the infidels are saying to see if our propaganda is working. We are happy to see the homosexuals are helping to spread dissention regarding your leader. Our work is done here. Now if we could only be successful in starting a civil war in Iraq. Problem is there are not nearly as many homosexuals in Iraq to help us as there are in infidel America. This is why you all will die!

Allah Akbar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Terry in Crapchester]

We here at al Qaeda . . . are men with testicles. We respect strength and power, not homosexual wimpering,

Then why do you hold hands with other men, fag?

Arab men are the biggest butt pirates in the world: fact.

[Allah Akbar]

You have made a good point, Infidel. Maybe we here at al Qaeda DO have more in common with liberal pussies under the surface. The difference is we do not openly accept the gay lifestyle in our culture. We are forced to tag each other in the butts because our women are ugly and in burquas, which is what we plan to do to your women when you homosexuals help us destroy your leader.

Allah Akbar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Terry in Crapchester]

Not to mention that you're the biggest cowards on the face of the earth, attacking innocent women and children.

[Allah Akbar]

Perhaps al Qaeda should stay off the message boards and just observe - you were being such a liberal pussy before, now you have channeled your anger in the right place - this is not good for the cause of Allah - keep bashing your leader.

Allah Akbar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mississippi Neck]

I was hoping to get at least one serious answer.

Here's one:

It will never be over.

We kill them and they'll just make more.

Alternative is to tighten our borders as much as possible..and they will still find a way in.. then what? Oh yeah, we go back out into the big bad world and kill some more..

Me, I'd rather go out there and kick some ass rather than be a puss bag and wait for them to come here. Just my choice..not saying its better or worse ..just my choice. Feel free to vote someone in who will do different.

See the never ending cycle?

Next..

[Diego in Seattle]

And still...not a single answer as to what we will see as "victory" in Iraq.

Maybe if you quit crying like a bitch and actually pay attention to what has been said about thousand times.

When the new Iraqi government is capable of defending itself against its foreign and domestic enemies, our job there will be successfully completed.

Interesting that the repugnantcans left that part out of their piece of shit political parading bill yesterday.

[TenTallBen]

Interesting that the repugnantcans left that part out of their piece of shit political parading bill yesterday.

Repugnantcans, Democraps, who gives a shit?

Lots of name calling going on here. How very third grade of everyone.

[RadioFan]

Personally, if the US gets an opportunity to leave the region on its own terms, with a new Iraqi government in place, I'll think things turned out as good as they could have.

Agree, along with mvscal's comments.

That's assuming, of course, democracy can ever work in an Arab country. Never has before.

I've lived through the administrations of Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush I, Clinton and Bush II, and only Bush II had the stones to take on the Middle East with something stronger than Madeleine Albright's yap and pen, which was really effective by the way.

Peace treaty between Jordon and Israel was signed during the Clinton administration. 'sayin.



Oh, and Cissyroo is either a brilliant troll an absolute fucking moron, just in case it hasn't been stated on this particular day, for the record.

[Van]

"How will we know when we won?"

By any usual measure of conflict we already won a long time ago, when Baghdad was captured, Saddam was caught and, finally, when the last substantive pocket of Iraqi resistance in Fallujah was destroyed.

Oh, and in case nobody noticed, despite countless threats and a burning desire to make it happen there also has been no repeats of 9-11 (of any size or magnitude) whatsoever on U.S. soil.

Lest we fool ourselves here, hey, bottom lining it, let's try to remember what this is all about: Job One post 9-11...No further large scale attacks by terrorists on U.S. soil.

We're simply now in the process of implementing a latter day Marshall Plan (of sorts), whereby we're restructuring the playing field more to our liking.

People these days apparently expect victory in this shit to appear like it does in the game of Risk, with one side covering the board and the other side completely wiped out of pieces.

This is real life. In real life (especially involving modern day U.S. and world politics) "winning" isn't that cut and dried. Nonetheless, by any reasonable historical measure the U.S. has defeated Saddam's regime in Iraq and the enemies of the U.S. in that region are now literally on the run and in exile, getting killed one by one in between hiding in caves and living under rocks.

We already won. That's a done deal. We're now trying to extract as much political mileage as possible from this victory, is all.

[RadioFan]

Nice post, Van. I don't agree with all of it, but RACK, nonetheless.

Lest we fool ourselves here, hey, bottom lining it, let's try to remember what this is all about: Job One post 9-11...No further large scale attacks by terrorists on U.S. soil.

And had we been/if we are attacked, it would have been/will be political hay from the left. Not initially, but later.

Just like if we are attacked in the future, and a Democrat were in office, it will be political hay from the right. Not initially, but later.


The fact that we haven't been attacked has very little to do with the current administration in power. But don't tell Cicero and the legion of other complete fucking tards who post and read in here that. Don't tell them that most of the military and intelligence community -- i.e. "soldiers" and "spies," aren't political appointments and don't change with administrations ... shhhhhh.

[Y2K]

That's assuming, of course, democracy can ever work in an Arab country. Never has before.

mmmmkay
Name this Arab Democracy that's never worked............... :P

The Constitution was put into force after the XXXXXX people approved the document in a referendum on September 11, 1971.

The Constitution includes 211 articles as follows.

I: Part One of the Constitution is entitled "The State" and includes a number of articles (1-6).
These articles state that the XXXXXX people are part of the Arab Nation and Islam is the religion of the state and Arabic is its official language.
They also pronounce that Islamic Law (Sharia'h) is the principal source of legislation, the XXXXX people are the source of authority and political system of XXXXX is a multiparty one.

II: Part Two of the Constitution is entitled "Basic Constituents of The Society" and includes the articles (7-39), which are divided into Social, moral and economic Constituents:.
These articles tackle the following constants:
-Social solidarity is the basis of the society
-The State shall guarantee the people's right to work and education, which is obligatory in the primary stage and the State shall work to extend obligation to other stages
-The State guarantees safeguarding the interests of the people.

III: Part Three of the Constitution is entitled "Public freedoms, rights and duties". It includes articles (40-63) to tackle the following:
-All citizens are equal before the law and have equal public rights and duties without discrimination between them due to race, ethnic origin, language, religion or creed.
- Individual freedom is a natural right and shall not be touched.
-The freedom of belief and the freedom of practice of religious rites are guaranteed.
- Freedom of opinion is guaranteed.
- No citizen may be prohibited from residing in any place and no citizen may be forced to reside in a particular place, except in the cases defined by the law.
- The extradition of political refugees is prohibited.
-Citizens shall have the right to vote, nominate and express their opinions according to the provisions of the law.

IV: Part Four of the Constitution is entitled "Sovereignty of the Law" and includes articles (64-72) and tackles the following:
-Sovereignty of the law shall be the basis of rule in the State.
- Penalty shall be personal and there shall be no crime or penalty except by virtue of the law.
- Any defendant is innocent until he is proved guilty before a legal court, in which he is granted the right to defend himself.
- The right to litigation is inalienable for all, and every citizen has the right to refer to his competent judge.
- The right of defense in person or by mandate is guaranteed.
- Refraining to execute sentences or obstructing them on the part of the concerned civil servants is considered a crime punishable by law.

V: Part Five of the Constitution is entitled "System of Government" and includes eight chapters.

I: Chapter One includes articles (73-85) and tackles the election of the President, presidential term and his authorities. In addition, this chapter tackles the Legislative Authority and its powers.

II: Chapter Two includes articles (86-136) and tackles the People's Assembly, its competences, the members and their tenure.

III: Chapter Three includes articles (137-164) and tackles the Executive Authority; the President, the Cabinet, local administration and local councils, and their authorities.

IV: Chapter Four includes articles (165-173) and tackles the judicial authority.

V: Chapter Five includes articles (174-178) and tackles the Supreme Constitutional Court and its competences.

VI: Chapter Six includes article 179 and tackles the Socialist Public Prosecutor.

VII: Chapter Seven includes articles (180-183) and tackles the Armed Forces and the National Defense Council.

VIII: Chapter Eight includes article 184 and tackles the Police.

VI: Part Six of the Constitution is entitled "General and Transitional Provisions" and includes articles (185-193) and tackles the following:
-The city of Cairo shall be the capital of the Arab Republic of Egypt.
-The law shall prescribe the national flag and the State emblem and the provisions relating thereto.
- All the provisions of the laws and regulations prior to the proclamation of this Constitution shall remain valid and in force.


VII: Part Seven of the Constitution is entitled "New Rulings" and includes articles (194-221) divided into two chapters:

I: Chapter One tackles the Shura Council and its formation, members and their tenure.

II: Chapter Two tackles The Press as follows:
-The Press is a popular, independent authority exercising its revocation in accordance with the stipulations of the Constitution and the law.
- The freedom of the press is guaranteed and press censorship is forbidden.
- A Supreme Press Council shall deal with matters concerning the press.
The law shall define its composition, competencies and its relationship with the State authorities.

In addition, a number of laws were enacted as complementary:
-Law no. 73 of 1956 on regulating the practicing of political rights.
-Law no. 38 of 1972 on the People's Assembly.
-Law no. 37 of 1972 on amending some law provisions to guarantee freedoms of the citizens.
-Law no. 40 of 1977 on the system of political parties.
-Law no. 33 of 1978 on protection of home front and social peace.
-Law no. 48 of 1979 on the enactment of law of the Supreme Constitutional Court.
-Law no. 120 of 1980 on the Shura Council.
-Law no. 145 of 1980 on funds of the Arab Socialist Union


Not gonna do it!!!!!!!!!!!

[LTS TRN 2]

Van, you are totally full of shit with you're ridiculous bluster. What, do you really share the Dulles brothers' imperialistic view of the world? Or do you even know who they are and what they did?

And Bab's is his usual pathetic self, mouthing pure Rovisms ad naseum.

Fact: Saddam was perfectly willing to sell us--and everyone--all the oil we wanted at a good price. There was nothing whatsoever threatening about him or any other Arab state.

Fact: the utterly vile and criminal Project For The New American Century is chocked with fanatical supporters of Israel and its demented apartheid state vision. This remains the central tenet in the entire War On Terror, and it's bogus--just like Israel.

Fact: the collosal expense of this invasion, coupled with the already gigantic national debt, means that this insane operation is totally unfeasible beyond another year or so. Or what?

Fact: the Iraqi puppet government now "okayed" by the Chimp n' Cheney is about as solid as George Tenet's "slam dunk."

Fact: Victory will come when the guilty verdicts are read for Cheney, Rummy, Chimp, Rice, Bolton, Libby, Perle, Wolfowitz, and all ther other seething and really cold-blooded murderers that comprise the current (unelected) cabal in Washington. And a sweet victory it will be.

[poptart]

Fact: There was nothing whatsoever threatening about him (Saddam) or any other Arab state.

You're a complete fuckin' 'tard, man.

[Van]

Fact: Nick is a pathetic weeble with a tinfoil propeller beanie.

[LTS TRN 2]

Typical of Van and Punktart to snip and duck.

Tell the ten thousand young American men in VA hospitals with NO LEGS that "we've already won." Tell the soldiers who are murdering civilians with wanton savagery--it's called MURDER--tell them in their cells that we've already won.

What, do you own shares in Haliburton? Think maybe Jesus is going to Surprise you real soon?

[Van]

Lemme guess...

You got a free toy when you dug inside the box and found your take?

[poptart]

Typical of Van and Punktart to snip and duck.

Dude, there's no sense in doing anything more than a drive-by-punking of someone who would offer such an outlandish take as, "There was nothing whatsoever threatening about him (Saddam) or any other Arab state."


Reality is fundamental.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

Fact: There was nothing whatsoever threatening about him (Saddam) or any other Arab state.

You're a complete fuckin' 'tard, man.

Actually, Saddam was a threat to Israel, and therefore by extension, a threat to an American client.

Just reminding you of who's bags you're carrying.

[Terry in Crapchester]

Perhaps al Qaeda should stay off the message boards and just observe - you were being such a liberal pussy before, now you have channeled your anger in the right place - this is not good for the cause of Allah - keep bashing your leader.

Allah Akbar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm not, nor have I ever been, a fan of either one of you. Like I said earlier, two sides of the same coin.