FAA Grounds LA Police Drone

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FAA Grounds LA Police Drone

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FAA Grounds L.A. Sheriff's Drone Air Force
Federal officials say the sheriff didn't have the OK for a media demonstration of his surveillance drone.
By Lynn Doan and Ashraf Khalil, Times Staff Writers
June 22, 2006


The Federal Aviation Administration has temporarily shot down Los Angeles County Sheriff Lee Baca's plans to launch unmanned surveillance drones to monitor crime.

The Sheriff's Department has been working for seven years with a defense contractor to build SkySeer, a 3-foot-long remote-controlled model airplane with a 6 1/2 -foot wingspan and tiny video cameras that can fit in the back of a patrol car when disassembled.

Baca and other officials had seen the drones as a major advance in law enforcement, providing deputies with a bird's-eye view of standoffs and other surveillance operations without the noise and high visibility of helicopters.

The project hit a milestone last week when the Sheriff's Department performed its first demonstration for the media — showing the plane take off, beam its video images 250 feet to deputies below and then landing.

But the test raised the ire of FAA officials, who said they had told the Sheriff's Department a week earlier that it could not fly the drones without receiving a certificate of authorization from the agency.

"I wouldn't want to term us as peeved, but we were definitely surprised," FAA spokeswoman Laura Brown said. Sheriff's officials were told "that we were more than willing to sit down and talk about a certificate — but that was before their first flight."

The FAA is now investigating Friday's demonstration to determine whether the Sheriff's Department should face disciplinary action.

Until the investigation is over, Brown said, the agency will not authorize the county's use of the drones.

Sheriff's officials dismissed the conflict as a misunderstanding that would soon be cleared up. But they were incredulous about what they consider red tape getting in the way of their law enforcement tool.

"A private citizen can go to the store and buy one of those model airplanes and fly them around. But because we're doing it as a public service, we have to deal with the FAA?" said Sheriff's Cmdr. Sid Heal. Once they "take a deep breath and realize there was no malice intended, it will get back on track."

Baca said Wednesday that he was unaware of the FAA investigation but downplayed the dispute.

"There's no reason for the FAA to be concerned," he said, calling the drones "non-invasive and nearly silent."

The Sheriff's Department has been developing the drone in conjunction with La Verne-based defense contractor, Octatron.



The drones are still in the testing stages. But if they prove effective, the department planned to buy 20 SkySeers at a cost of $20,000 to $30,000 each.

Backers say the drones are much cheaper to operate than helicopters and are virtually silent, something that can be an advantage in undercover surveillance.

But that silence worries privacy advocates, who fear the Sheriff's Department will spy on people.

"Drones are far more nimble and silent; at least with a helicopter, you know you're being looked at," said Beth Givens, founder of the Privacy Rights Clearinghouse in San Diego. "The use of drones steps over the line."

Heal said the department has no plans to spy on people. Rather, they would most likely be used to track fleeing suspects, monitor hostage situations and search for missing children and hikers, he said.

The drone would fly about 300 feet above the ground, much lower than small planes and helicopters.

Still, the FAA said it tightly regulates all drones and other "unmanned aerial vehicles" because they could interfere with other aviation activity.

"We've already got certain lanes designated in the sky out there," Brown said. "There are certain ways that UAVs must operate so that they have less impact on other types of things."

The FAA is especially concerned about drones in Los Angeles, which has very congested airspace and where certain types of planes and helicopters are assigned specific "air corridors."

But it's not unheard of for the FAA to reserve airspace for drones.

The FAA recently created such a zone in New Mexico to accommodate a Homeland Security drone that patrolled the U.S.-Mexico border in search of illegal border crossings.
You can bet the FAA was fucking PISSED.

1. UAV's aren't just RC model planes- they're legally required to be certificated the same as any manned airplane, and with good reason: they pose a collision danger to other aircraft- more of a hazard than a plane with a pilot on board poses. Might not bring down a 737, but sure as fuck could drop a cessna- or a news helicopter.

2. Highly congested traffic areas- and LA probably qualifies in anybody's book- are pretty much ALL controlled airspace. Some places it's controlled down to 750ft, other places the airspace is controlled all the way down to the ground, and in that kind of area, you don't fly without a specific clearance from a controller- at least not without really pissing off the FAA. And when the FAA is pissed, they can take your pilot's license (which is also required to operte a UAV), they can impound your aircraft, and in certain circumstances, they can have your ass arrested. Not even cops can fuck with the FAA and get away with it
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Post by Uncle Fester »

The FAA is also concerned that the plane operator, who is holding a string and twirling around and around, could become dizzy and disoriented and possibly fall down.
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Post by Bizzarofelice »

The police did not have proper authority to take the drone off any sweet jumps.
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Post by Cuda »

Uncle Fester wrote:The FAA is also concerned that the plane operator, who is holding a string and twirling around and around, could become dizzy and disoriented and possibly fall down.
spatial disorientation is a serious concern for pilots
WacoFan wrote:Flying any airplane that you can hear the radio over the roaring radial engine is just ghey anyway.... Of course, Cirri are the Miata of airplanes..
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Post by BSmack »

Cuda wrote:
Uncle Fester wrote:The FAA is also concerned that the plane operator, who is holding a string and twirling around and around, could become dizzy and disoriented and possibly fall down.
spatial disorientation is a serious concern for pilots
You are familar with the concept of a "drone" being something other than one of your C&P jobs?
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Post by Jerkovich »

You can bet the FAA was fucking PISSED.

1. UAV's aren't just RC model planes- they're legally required to be certificated the same as any manned airplane, and with good reason: they pose a collision danger to other aircraft- more of a hazard than a plane with a pilot on board poses. Might not bring down a 737, but sure as fuck could drop a cessna- or a news helicopter.

2. Highly congested traffic areas- and LA probably qualifies in anybody's book- are pretty much ALL controlled airspace. Some places it's controlled down to 750ft, other places the airspace is controlled all the way down to the ground, and in that kind of area, you don't fly without a specific clearance from a controller- at least not without really pissing off the FAA. And when the FAA is pissed, they can take your pilot's license (which is also required to operte a UAV), they can impound your aircraft, and in certain circumstances, they can have your ass arrested. Not even cops can fuck with the FAA and get away with it

Did you do your home work?

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Very little airspace is controlled under 300'. Any ding dong knows not to fly model planes in Ingelwood.
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Post by Uncle Fester »

spatial disorientation is a serious concern for pilots
Tell me about it. I had my Cox Stukka going round and round on the playground before I started to get really dizzy. I ended up flinging it skyward like someone doing the hammer throw and it crashed into Brian Grimstad's bicycle.

The NTSB investigated and ruled "pilot error," which got me teased by some of the 5th graders.
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Post by Cuda »

Jerkovich wrote: Any ding dong knows not to fly model planes in Ingelwood.
Apparently, the LA Sheriff isn't your ordinary ding-dong
WacoFan wrote:Flying any airplane that you can hear the radio over the roaring radial engine is just ghey anyway.... Of course, Cirri are the Miata of airplanes..
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Post by Jerkovich »

Cuda wrote:
Jerkovich wrote: Any ding dong knows not to fly model planes in Ingelwood.
Apparently, the LA Sheriff isn't your ordinary ding-dong
Seriously, I have over 1200 hrs single engine time and I have never flown less then 1000' in the LA area unless it was on a final or take off. I doubt that the Sheriff pilot is not of a caliber to know where he can and cannot fly. Even though, I'm glad the FAA is holding them to standard and letting them know that they are not above the FAR.

The Sheriff here is shiftless twat, nice to see him get bitch slapped. :lol:
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Post by Cuda »

1. The sheriff pilot probably thinks he's playing x-plane.

2. The only posible dumber person than the sheriff's commander would have to be the sheriff himself

3. Rack! the FAA anytime it can both protect it's turf, AND make things safer for real pilots & real aircraft.

4. UAV's are a fucking menace and should be strictly confined to the battlefield
WacoFan wrote:Flying any airplane that you can hear the radio over the roaring radial engine is just ghey anyway.... Of course, Cirri are the Miata of airplanes..
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Post by Jerkovich »

Cuda wrote:1. The sheriff pilot probably thinks he's playing x-plane.

2. The only posible dumber person than the sheriff's commander would have to be the sheriff himself

3. Rack! the FAA anytime it can both protect it's turf, AND make things safer for real pilots & real aircraft.

4. UAV's are a fucking menace and should be strictly confined to the battlefield

No, I disagree on all accounts. The pilot of the drone is probably a licensed pilot, or should be so. Drones of that caliber are no more a menace then the hundreds of model airplane that enthusiasts fly everyday. Are you saying that we should ban those also? Besides, it sure beat the hell out of flying a $1,000 + per hour machine around for a looking for shit head toad.
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Post by Rootbeer »

Bizzarofelice wrote:The police did not have proper authority to take the drone off any sweet jumps.
The drone didn't have any shocks and pegs.
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Post by Cuda »

Jerkovich wrote:
Cuda wrote:1. The sheriff pilot probably thinks he's playing x-plane.

2. The only posible dumber person than the sheriff's commander would have to be the sheriff himself

3. Rack! the FAA anytime it can both protect it's turf, AND make things safer for real pilots & real aircraft.

4. UAV's are a fucking menace and should be strictly confined to the battlefield

No, I disagree on all accounts.
[mvscal] Of course you do, you're a dumb fuck [/mvscal]

Drones of that caliber are no more a menace then the hundreds of model airplane that enthusiasts fly everyday.
RC model flyers rarely fly their toys even as high as 100'. That's because they need to be able to SEE their fucking toys so they can control them. How is that anywhere near as hazardous as Barney Fife flying his toy at an altitude where he can barely see it & can't hear it? Being quiet & difficult to see are two of the main fucking selling points of the goddam things. And don't tell me you haven't seen any of the fucking car-chase videos from LA where the scene is shot from a helicopter obvoiusly lower than 500' and at least one other helicopter flies through the scene 50 to 100 feet lower than the one with the camera. Not that video of a police drone colliding with a news chopper wouldn't be interesting to see, but I doubt anybody in the helicopter or anybody on the ground who got hit by flaming debris would see the humor in it.
Besides, it sure beat the hell out of flying a $1,000 + per hour machine around for a looking for shit head toad.
Even at 1/10th of the cost, police aircraft have proved many times to be not worth the money they eat up. That's why nearly every police ægency around the country that ever had one got rid of it.
WacoFan wrote:Flying any airplane that you can hear the radio over the roaring radial engine is just ghey anyway.... Of course, Cirri are the Miata of airplanes..
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Post by Mister Bushice »

Bizzarofelice wrote:The police did not have proper authority to take the drone off any sweet jumps.
These are not the drones you are looking for.
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Post by Jerkovich »

Cuda wrote:
Jerkovich wrote:
Cuda wrote:1. The sheriff pilot probably thinks he's playing x-plane.

2. The only posible dumber person than the sheriff's commander would have to be the sheriff himself

3. Rack! the FAA anytime it can both protect it's turf, AND make things safer for real pilots & real aircraft.

4. UAV's are a fucking menace and should be strictly confined to the battlefield

No, I disagree on all accounts.
[mvscal] Of course you do, you're a dumb fuck [/mvscal]

Drones of that caliber are no more a menace then the hundreds of model airplane that enthusiasts fly everyday.
RC model flyers rarely fly their toys even as high as 100'. That's because they need to be able to SEE their fucking toys so they can control them. How is that anywhere near as hazardous as Barney Fife flying his toy at an altitude where he can barely see it & can't hear it? Being quiet & difficult to see are two of the main fucking selling points of the goddam things. And don't tell me you haven't seen any of the fucking car-chase videos from LA where the scene is shot from a helicopter obvoiusly lower than 500' and at least one other helicopter flies through the scene 50 to 100 feet lower than the one with the camera. Not that video of a police drone colliding with a news chopper wouldn't be interesting to see, but I doubt anybody in the helicopter or anybody on the ground who got hit by flaming debris would see the humor in it.
Besides, it sure beat the hell out of flying a $1,000 + per hour machine around for a looking for shit head toad.
Even at 1/10th of the cost, police aircraft have proved many times to be not worth the money they eat up. That's why nearly every police ægency around the country that ever had one got rid of it.
I call bullshit. News helicopters are restricted to 1,000' AGL and need special permission to enter areas where police activity is taking place or in special use airspace. If they are using the drone, WTF would they call in a fucking noisy ass helicopter? Besides, I'm not sure where your disrespect for the police harbors from, but my assumption is the those fuckers are more competent then your back water, hooker honken, Festus.

I say let the cops get the right FAA certs and clearances and let them make their job easier and more cost effective.
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Post by Shlomart Ben Yisrael »

Apparently, the FAA is completely staffed by latte drinking liberals that are soft on crime, and dream of nothing better than hugging rapists and murderers.

If an unmanned drone isn't buzzing your next barbeque, the terrorists win.
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Post by Cuda »

Martyred wrote:Apparently, the FAA is completely staffed by latte drinking liberals that are soft on crime, and dream of nothing better than hugging rapists and murderers.

You could probably count the numbers of rapists & murderers that have been caught on account of the LA police airforce on one finger...


















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WacoFan wrote:Flying any airplane that you can hear the radio over the roaring radial engine is just ghey anyway.... Of course, Cirri are the Miata of airplanes..
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Post by Shlomart Ben Yisrael »

mvscal wrote:Don't you have a country of your own to worry about? Why are you always obsessing over ours? It's kinda weird and creepy.
You're not the boss of me.

Opinions are like assholes. I have an opinion, and you are an asshole.
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Kierland drop-kicking Wolftard wrote: Aren’t you part of the silent generation?
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Post by Mister Bushice »

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Post by Van »

The Sheriff's Department has been developing the drone in conjunction with La Verne-based defense contractor, Octatron
Shit's gonna drag on forever now, since dude and his brother Purvcicle fell through the ice...
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Post by Shlomart Ben Yisrael »

Van wrote:
The Sheriff's Department has been developing the drone in conjunction with La Verne-based defense contractor, Octatron
Shit's gonna drag on forever now, since dude and his brother Purvcicle fell through the ice...
I hope that while the young princes are soaring with eagles, they don't have a mid-air collision
with one of the drones.
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Felix wrote:you've become very bitter since you became jewish......
Kierland drop-kicking Wolftard wrote: Aren’t you part of the silent generation?
Why don’t you just STFU.
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Post by Van »

...can't stop laughing...
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Post by Shlomart Ben Yisrael »

Your laughter is inappropriate.

:wink:
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Felix wrote:you've become very bitter since you became jewish......
Kierland drop-kicking Wolftard wrote: Aren’t you part of the silent generation?
Why don’t you just STFU.
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Post by Van »

"Dude must be buttah 'cause..."

:-)
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Re: FAA Grounds LA Police Drone

Post by Smackie Chan »

The Sheriff's Department has been developing the drone in conjunction with La Verne-based defense contractor, Octatron.
Shirley, you jest.
Cuda wrote:they're legally required to be certificated
Keep expressionating yourself like that, and you, too, can someday become President.
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Post by Cuda »

That's aviation lingo, earthbound stoner.

It means they're required to have an Airworthyness Certificate (i.e. certificated)
WacoFan wrote:Flying any airplane that you can hear the radio over the roaring radial engine is just ghey anyway.... Of course, Cirri are the Miata of airplanes..
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Post by Van »

"certified"...
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Post by Smackie Chan »

Van wrote:"certified"...
That's where I was going, too, but, as much as I hate to admit it, certificated is a verb transitive.
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Post by Van »

"licensed"

"koshered"

"checked out"

"a-okayed"

"bamboozled"
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Re: FAA Grounds LA Police Drone

Post by ADAM »

Cuda wrote:

The Sheriff's Department has been working for seven years with a defense contractor to build SkySeer, a 3-foot-long remote-controlled model airplane with a 6 1/2 -foot wingspan and tiny video cameras that can fit in the back of Cudas' ass when fully assembled.


I found this part most disturbing!
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Post by Cuda »

Oh, don't worry, Adumb. I'm sure they can fabricate an adapter so it'll fit in your ass.
WacoFan wrote:Flying any airplane that you can hear the radio over the roaring radial engine is just ghey anyway.... Of course, Cirri are the Miata of airplanes..
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Post by Uncle Fester »

I've got a remote controlled one of these that I enjoy taking down to the beach:
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