Are the russkies now joining the coalition of the willing?

[Tom In VA]

.... or here in Northern Virginia, we could quickly resolve the overpopulation issue ...

No way man, not here.

[Bizzarofelice]

I've read great stuff by people who go out to Chernobyl and wander around. Native plants a plenty and nobody around.

[Smackie Chan]

Yep. Much more tidy and reliable than waiting around for another racist hurricane.

Better yet, the two can be combined if we can get cooperation from the weatherman. A classic example of how the synergy of nature and human ingenuity can be used to benefit mankind. Double the pleasure, double the fun.

[Smackie Chan]

.... or here in Northern Virginia, we could quickly resolve the overpopulation issue ...

No way man, not here.

See, it's NIMBY mentality like yours that stifles progress. Can't you envision an uncongested 5:00pm weekday commute on the Beltway, Columbia Pike, or Route 7? C'mon, man ... get with the program!

[Tom In VA]

.... or here in Northern Virginia, we could quickly resolve the overpopulation issue ...

No way man, not here.

See, it's NIMBY mentality like yours that stifles progress. Can't you envision an uncongested 5:00pm weekday commute on the Beltway, Columbia Pike, or Route 7? C'mon, man ... get with the program!

I see you working, sure. I grew up here so I've seen the growth. Of course there always WAS traffic, but I suppose that's what you get when you start off in Arlington, move to Fairfax and now I'm in Manassas.

Even Manassas, 28 north, JUST TO GET to points east is sometimes a 40 minute committment.

[Tom In VA]

Just heard something on fox news about russkie spec forces being told by Putin to do whatever it takes to find the arseholes that killed four russkies in Iraq.

Back on topic, hopefully we will indentify and destroy these Russians without too much trouble.

I'm interested. Why ?

[Smackie Chan]

Just heard something on fox news about russkie spec forces being told by Putin to do whatever it takes to find the arseholes that killed four russkies in Iraq.

Back on topic, hopefully we will indentify and destroy these Russians without too much trouble.

I'm interested. Why ?

Yeah, I'm interested in why we should get back on topic, too.

[Tom In VA]

Who do you think propped up the Baathists for 35 years? You can bet that it does not serve our purposes to permit Russian intelligence operations in Iraq let alone paramilitary operations.

If the Russians were seriously interested in helping they would end their material support of Iran's nuclear program.

"Diplomats"? Yeah....right. The Russians are not allies. They are not partners. They are enemies.

Nice take.

[Mister Bushice]

I've read great stuff by people who go out to Chernobyl and wander around. Native plants a plenty and nobody around.

50 pound tomatoes, and their teeth have never been whiter?

[BSmack]

Who do you think propped up the Baathists for 35 years? You can bet that it does not serve our purposes to permit Russian intelligence operations in Iraq let alone paramilitary operations.

If the Russians were seriously interested in helping they would end their material support of Iran's nuclear program.

"Diplomats"? Yeah....right. The Russians are not allies. They are not partners. They are enemies.

Nice take.

When does he say he's not going to drink with any Russian son of a bitch?

[Mikey]

Who do you think propped up the Baathists for 35 years?

Not sure but this guy looks vaguely familiar.

[Eaglebauer]

If the Mega Powers were to collide, and both countries were allowed to fight the way they could, we could end this thing. Welcome to the game, Russia.

Meet Cicero's foriegn policy team.

[Mikey]

Who do you think propped up the Baathists for 35 years?

Not sure but this guy looks vaguely familiar.

Yes, truly "meaningful" support right there. The Soviets provided Iraq with ten thousand tanks and APCs, thousands of aircraft, thousands of artillery tubes and millions of small arms...but Don Rumsfeld shook his hand.

Dumbfuck.

Got your head in the sand much? "Just" shaking hands...right. Dumbfuck.

But it was Donald Rumsfeld's trip to Baghdad which opened of the floodgates during 1985-90 for lucrative U.S. weapons exports--some $1.5 billion worth-- including chemical/biological and nuclear weapons equipment and technology, along with critical components for missile delivery systems for all of the above. According to a 1994 GAO Letter Report (GAO/NSIAD-94-98) some 771 weapons export licenses for Iraq were approved during this six year period....not by our European allies, but by the U.S. Department of Commerce.

There were few if any reservations evident in the range of weapons which President Ronald Reagan, and his successor George W. H. Bush were willing to sell Saddam Hussein. Under the Arms Export Control Act of 1976, the foreign sale of munitions and other defense equipment and technology are controlled by the Department of State. During the 1980s, such items could not be sold or diverted to Communist states, nor to those on the U.S. list of terrorist-supporting countries. When Iraq came off that list in 1982, however, some $48 million of items such as data privacy devices, voice scramblers, communication and navigation equipment, electronic components, image intensifiers and pistols (to protect Saddam) were approved for sale during 1985-90.

But it was through the purchase of $1.5 billion of American "dual-use items," having, sometimes arguably, both military and civilian functions, that Iraq obtained the bulk of it weapons of mass destruction in the late 80s. "Duel-use items" are controlled and licensed by the Department of Commerce under the Export Administration Act of 1979. This is where the real damage was done.

In 1992 and again in1994, hearings were conducted by the Senate Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs Committee, which has Senate oversight responsibility for the Export Administration Act. The purpose of the hearings was the Committee's concern that "tens of thousands" of Gulf War veterans were suffering from symptoms associated with the "Gulf War Syndrome", possibly due to their exposure to chemical and biological agents that had been exported from the U.S. during that brief period of "normalisation" of relations with Iraq in 1985-90.

At the opening of the second round of hearings on May 25,1994, Chairman Donald Riegle and Ranking Member Alphonse D'Amato released a detailed staff report which constituted a searing indictment of U.S. arms export policies during the Reagan/Bush Administrations, linking those exports to the health problems of Gulf War veterans, and excoriating the then current (Clinton) Administration for denying that such a link existed.

According to the hearing reports (which are available on a current website: http://www.chronicillnet.org/PGWS/tuite/default.htm) among the chemical weapons which had been sold to Iraq were some of the very most lethal available: Sarin, Soman, Tabun, VX, Lewisite, Cyanogen Chloride, Hydrogen Cyanide, blister agents and Mustard Gas. Some of the powerful biological agents sold included anthrax, Clostridium Botulinum, Histoplasma Capsulatum (causes a tuberculosis-like disease) , Brucella Melitensis, Clostridium Perfringens and Escherichia Coli.

http://www.rense.com/general35/rums.htm

[Smackie Chan]

Brucella Melitensis

Wasn't she a member of the East German Olympic swim team?

Rense? Total horseshit.

[zyclonesdale]I "ran the board" for Jeff Rense a couple times when he aired his radio show out of a station I was working for in Santa Barbara. Pretty much a poor man's Art Bell.[/zyclonesdale]

[Mikey]

Rense? Total horseshit.



You do understand that the Iraqis didn't buy chemical weapons, don't you? They produced them locally and lab samples of common pathogens are not biological weapons.

I have no idea who Rense is. Are you going to deny the content or just lol at the source?

What's the source for your statement:

The Soviets provided Iraq with ten thousand tanks and APCs, thousands of aircraft, thousands of artillery tubes and millions of small arms.

or is it just your well documented memory?

[titlover]

Rense? Total horseshit.



You do understand that the Iraqis didn't buy chemical weapons, don't you? They produced them locally and lab samples of common pathogens are not biological weapons.

I have no idea who Rense is. Are you going to deny the content or just lol at the source?

What's the source for your statement:

The Soviets provided Iraq with ten thousand tanks and APCs, thousands of aircraft, thousands of artillery tubes and millions of small arms.

or is it just your well documented memory?

if you don't even know who or what your source is, wtf should he even acknowledge it?

[Mikey]

Rense? Total horseshit.



You do understand that the Iraqis didn't buy chemical weapons, don't you? They produced them locally and lab samples of common pathogens are not biological weapons.

I have no idea who Rense is. Are you going to deny the content or just lol at the source?

What's the source for your statement:

The Soviets provided Iraq with ten thousand tanks and APCs, thousands of aircraft, thousands of artillery tubes and millions of small arms.

or is it just your well documented memory?

if you don't even know who or what your source is, wtf should he even acknowledge it?

WGARA who the source is. The fact is that the US provided substantial military aid to Iraq in the 80s and early 90s. The original source of the information was documented in quote. Are you going to try and refute it (something mvscal has completely failed to do), or just continue fondling mvscal's nutsack while proving what an ignorant horse's ass you are?

[Mikey]

What's the source for your statement:

The Soviets provided Iraq with ten thousand tanks and APCs, thousands of aircraft, thousands of artillery tubes and millions of small arms.

or is it just your well documented memory?

Yeah...my memory and the memory of everyone else who has ever served in the Gulf.

Show me a picture of any piece of destroyed Iraqi equipment from the Gulf War and I'll show you a Soviet weapon system.

You might as well be asking for a source to support the claim that water is wet.

ten thousand tanks and APCs, thousands of aircraft, thousands of artillery tubes and millions of small arms

You've posted some pretty big numbers there. Let's see the documentation, or STFU.

[Mikey]

nothing

[Van]

[zyclonesdale][/zyclonesdale]

Cracked me up. Dins must really hate knowing he's now being lumped like that.

Great to see Smackie back.

[titlover]

I have no idea who Rense is. Are you going to deny the content or just lol at the source?

What's the source for your statement:
or is it just your well documented memory?

if you don't even know who or what your source is, wtf should he even acknowledge it?

WGARA who the source is. The fact is that the US provided substantial military aid to Iraq in the 80s and early 90s. The original source of the information was documented in quote. Are you going to try and refute it (something mvscal has completely failed to do), or just continue fondling mvscal's nutsack while proving what an ignorant horse's ass you are?

doesn't mean shit if the source isn't trustworthy. how do you know the quote is right or even real?

I'm sure Dan Rather THOUGHT his source was credible.

ooops.

[Goober McTuber]

mvscal is probably right. We didn’t sell Iraq a bunch of weapon systems. Just a few little things like anthrax, VX nerve gas, West Nile fever germs and botulism cultures.

American research companies, with the approval of two previous presidential administrations, provided Iraq biological cultures that could be used for biological weapons, according to testimony to a U.S. Senate committee eight years ago.

West Nile Virus, E. coli, anthrax and botulism were among the potentially fatal biological cultures that a U.S. company sent under U.S. Commerce Department licenses after 1985, when Ronald Reagan was president, according to the Senate testimony.

The Commerce Department under the first Bush administration also authorized eight shipments of cultures that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention later classified as having "biological warfare significance."

Between 1985 and 1989, the Senate testimony shows, Iraq received at least 72 U.S. shipments of clones, germs and chemicals ranging from substances that could destroy wheat crops, give children and animals the bone-deforming disease rickets, to a nerve gas rated a million times more lethal than Sarin. Disclosures about such shipments in the late 1980s not only highlight questions about old policies but pose new ones, such as how well the American military forces would be protected against such an arsenal -- if one exists -- should the United States invade Iraq.

http://foi.missouri.edu/terrorintellige ... germs.html



Also see:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.inf ... le3887.htm

http://www.sundayherald.com/27572

http://ahrp.org/infomail/05/08/14.php


oops.

[Mikey]

Yeah, but it was only a little bit of that stuff. And besides, he only used on Kurds and Iranians, so who cares anyway.

[Bizzarofelice]

So America sent chemical weapons overseas?

If God blesses America, God must be a douchebag.

[Goober McTuber]

Whatever you say, Pollyanna.

[Goober McTuber]

We didn't sell them VX nerve agent. We sold them nerve agent antidote which they claimed can be reverse engineered to produce nerve agent.

According to a number of links, we sold them both.

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/enti ... 46767-3748

Along with those lab samples of common agricultural pathogens (botulism, anthrax, etc).

[Neely8]

We didn't sell them VX nerve agent. We sold them nerve agent antidote which they claimed can be reverse engineered to produce nerve agent.

According to a number of links, we sold them both.

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/enti ... 46767-3748

Along with those lab samples of common agricultural pathogens (botulism, anthrax, etc).

Which is it lefties? WMD's were in Iraq or not? No matter where they came from if these stories are true then Bush's reason for going to war is validated. If not true then it shows you guys don't know what the hell your talking about. No win/No win.......

[Mikey]

What kind of a traitor are you, ya commie bastard?

How dare you criticize any Republican administration, or disagree with mvscal. Either on is tantamount to treason. Go back to your commie friends in Iran where you belong.

[Goober McTuber]

We didn't sell them VX nerve agent. We sold them nerve agent antidote which they claimed can be reverse engineered to produce nerve agent.

According to a number of links, we sold them both.

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/enti ... 46767-3748

Your "number of links" all refer back to the same source.

No they don't, dumbfuck.

http://foi.missouri.edu/terrorintellige ... germs.html

Between 1985 and 1989, the Senate testimony shows, Iraq received at least 72 U.S. shipments of clones, germs and chemicals ranging from substances that could destroy wheat crops, give children and animals the bone-deforming disease rickets, to a nerve gas rated a million times more lethal than Sarin.

http://democracyrising.us/content/view/30/74/

In December 2002, Iraq 's 1200 page Weapons Declaration revealed a list of Western corporations and countries -- as well as individuals -- that exported chemical and biological materials to Iraq in the past two decades. Many American names were on the list. Alcolac International, for example, a Maryland company, transported thiodiglycol, a mustard gas precursor, to Iraq . A Tennessee manufacturer contributed large amounts of a chemical used to make sarin, a nerve gas implicated in Gulf War diseases.

Also see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran-Iraq_War

[BSmack]

Not advocating Nukes b/c that isnt good for the environment and for people's safety, but we have enough bombs and technology to do more damage than we are doing.

Yeah! We'll drop those bombs that are AWESOME for people's safety and the environment!

Damn straight. The FDA has even included MOABs on the food pyramid.

[OCmike]

Going into Iraq, you weren't warned of Hussein's ability to hit you with:

sarin, soman, tabun, VX, lewisite, cyanogen chloride, hydrogen cyanide, blister agents, mustard gas, anthrax, clostridium botulinum, histoplasma capsulatum, brucella melitensis, clostridium perfringens or escherichia coli?

I thought you said you were briefed before going into battle.

In the Navy we were briefed on those chemical weapons prior to going into battle in the Gulf, and were also briefed on the soviet SCUD missle that'd be used as a delivery system.

[Mikey]

I thought those were among the WMDs he was *supposed* to have. If they're nothing to be concerned about, then why were we there in the first place?

Oh yeah, that got changed to bestowing democracy (at the end of a gun) on a deserving population. Something about flowers and stuff, too, if I recall.

[Tom In VA]

I thought those were among the WMDs he was *supposed* to have. If they're nothing to be concerned about, then why were we there in the first place?

Oh yeah, that got changed to bestowing democracy (at the end of a gun) on a deserving population. Something about flowers and stuff, too, if I recall.

Well Mikey, thank you for your service in the military. While I would love to refute you, I don't think it would be proper for me, a non military serving hack, to comment.

But I do respectfully disagree. That is of course, if that's okay with General Sudden Sam.

[Mikey]

I thought those were among the WMDs he was *supposed* to have. If they're nothing to be concerned about, then why were we there in the first place?

Oh yeah, that got changed to bestowing democracy (at the end of a gun) on a deserving population. Something about flowers and stuff, too, if I recall.

Well Mikey, thank you for your service in the military. While I would love to refute you, I don't think it would be proper for me, a non military serving hack, to comment.

But I do respectfully disagree. That is of course, if that's okay with General Sudden Sam.

Suck that gut in soldier!!
Shoulders back!!

This squad is pathetic - can't even stand at attention correctly!!

You act like a bunch of old men!!!

[Tom In VA]

Nice melt Mikey. You're melting.

[Mikey]

Thanks trev.

[OCmike]

Evidently there can only be one, single reason for going to war. I must missed that memo, but if whiny liberal pantloads say so...

You can lay that one right at the doorstep of the Bush Administration. They put all of their eggs in the WMD basket and when none were found tried to switch gears and sell everyone a different bill of goods.

It was fine that we were going to now depose a vicious dictator, but we're not all so stupid that you can suddenly pretend that that was the original purpose for going to war.

I know Colin Powell laid out a multi-layered argument for war, but everything other than eliminating Saddam's WMDs was second or third on down the list.

[Bizzarofelice]

OH SNAP! Aluminum tubes!!!

[Goober McTuber]

No they don't, dumbfuck.

http://foi.missouri.edu/terrorintellige ... germs.html

Between 1985 and 1989, the Senate testimony shows, Iraq received at least 72 U.S. shipments of clones, germs and chemicals ranging from substances that could destroy wheat crops, give children and animals the bone-deforming disease rickets, to a nerve gas rated a million times more lethal than Sarin.

Yes, they do...dumbfuck. The above propaganda piece was written a mere two weeks after the Sunday Herald article. Coincidence? I think not.

Are you disputing the fact that it was based on Senate testimony?

I never said that other countries didn’t play a larger role, but to suggest that we provided nothing more than agricultural samples is a wee bit disingenuous.

One other thing. Considering the tens of thousands of Gulf War veterans who suffered mysterious debilitating illnesses, it’s probably too early to say that zero American soldiers were/will be killed by Iraq's chemical weapons. Dumbfuck.

[Goober McTuber]

Considering the tens of thousands of Gulf War veterans who suffered mysterious debilitating illnesses, it’s probably too early to say that zero American soldiers were/will be killed by Iraq's chemical weapons. Dumbfuck.

Funny how known survivors of chemical attacks do not share their symptoms. I suppose I'll just have to chalk that one up to you not knowing what the fuck you're talking about again.

Although there is not yet a case definition for Gulf War Illness, the chronic signs and symptoms loosely fit the clinical criteria for Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and/or Fibromyalgia Syndrome. Some patients have additionally what appears to be neurotoxicity and brainstem dysfunction that can result in autonomic, cranial and peripheral nerve demyelination, possibly due to complex chemical exposures. Often these patients have been diagnosed with Multiple Chemical Sensitivity Syndrome (MCS) or Organophosphate-Induced Delayed Neurotoxicity (OPIDN). Chemically exposed patients can be treated by removal of offending chemicals from the patient's environment, depletion of chemicals from the patient's system and treatment of the neurotoxic signs and symptoms caused by chemical exposure(s). A rather large subset (~40%) of GWI patients have transmittible infections, including mycoplasmal and possibly other chronic bacterial infections, that have resulted in the appearance of GWI in immediate family members and civilians in the Gulf region. It is likely that veterans of the Gulf War who are ill with GWI owe their illnesses to a variety of exposures: (a) chemical mixtures, primarily organophosphates, antinerve agents and possibly nerve agents, (b) radiological sources, primarily depleted uranium and possibly fallout from destroyed nuclear reactors, and (c) biological sources, primarily bacteria, viruses and toxins, before, during and after the conflict. Such exposures can result in poorly defined chronic illnesses, but these illnesses can be treated if appropriate diagnoses are forthcoming.

http://www.immed.org/illness/gulfwar_il ... earch.html