OT: to tard or not to tard

[Nolesy]

I have debated for some time about going here but since it is off season and I am not really one to keep my mouth shut.....................
I am totally amazed at how ignorant most people can be. Sure there are some a holes in the world who do things out of sheer meaness but I choose to believe that most actions , when negative , are due to ignorance. Remember ignorance is not a lack of intelligence but a lack of knowledge. With that preface let me get to my point.

In our society, and this board to a significant extent reflects our enculturalzation, we have certian norms about what is appropriate and what is not. Among those is we don't go around dropping N bombs, publically making ethnic slurs and such. How long do you think some one would last around here dropping N bombs?
I have noticed that our society recently has accepted the casual term of Tard, retard, or any other form of its use as part of our venacular. In doing so we slander a percentage of our population who is probably the least deserving of slander. Mentally retarded individuals did not asked to be born mentally retarded. They were and thats thier station in life. I spent 15 years in special education with emphasis on adult mental retardation and I am here to tell you that most of the mentally retarded people I have encountered were really stand up. They want every thing we want in life such as independence, a job, love and respect. What seperates them from the rest of the population is that they generally see the world through much simpiler, trusting, and un jaded eyes. Sadly, we "normal" people use them as a reference base when we try to attack others, point out others short comings, or lack the vocabulary to express dis pleasure with others. What I find even more trajic is the fact that it is considered acceptable behavior by many.
Let me make it clear that I am not a PC nut. In fact, one could say that my views are so far to the right that I would Make Rush Limbaugh look like a new dealer.
Am I on a soap box? Probably but only for this one time. I will not bring this up again. Is it my job to police this board or society as far as venacular goes? Nope. You all have free choice as far as how you conduct yourself.
In addition to my experience in working with mentally retarded adults I also have a special needs child. My son has Aspergers syndrome, a form of autism. I feel this gives me the right to hang this post out here. Others on the board have special needs kids and I am sure they know the struggles of raising a child with special needs.
I suppose thats it.

[the_ouskull]

That post was retar...

...but seriously. I may use the word, but I know what it means, and I respect the trials that those kids have to go through, just to accomplish the menial tasks that so many of us take for granted. There was a time where I, briefly, considered working with special needs children, but I was able to take a long, REAL, look at myself and I realized that I do not have the patience that they require and deserve. Just like with the other word you mentioned, I think that the power of the word "retard" lies within those who are targeted by the word, not those who say it. If you don't believe me, watch The Ringer, and watch Eddie Barbanell call Johnny Knoxville a retard. VERY funny.

I also understand that not everybody has disabilities that allow them to be as highly functional as Eddie Barbanell, et al... those are the people who I feel are slighted the most by the word. Their daily struggle is more effort than most of us put out in a year, and they don't get the sense of reward that they should get for accomplishing the things that they do, because the things that they accomplish are day-to-day for everybody else (tying your own shoes, etc...) and they really only want to be like everybody else.

Good post, Nolesy. If you want me to stop using that word, who am I to tell you no? I'm in.

D

[indyfrisco]

How long do you think some one would last around here dropping N bombs?

Your brethren, Sissyroo, is still around.

[indyfrisco]

Seriously, I have always used the word tard as a putdown. Nolesy brought this up once before and out of respect for him, I don’t use it anymore. I never used it to be hurtful. As he said, it just became a term in society. I’ve also in real life said “That car is retarded!” meaning it kicked ass. It’s all in your perspective. However, I don’t use the term on this board nor do I use it in real life due to the awareness I’ve gleaned from Nolesy on this.

Similarly, I tend to use the term “gay” in the same vain as “retarded” in that whatever I am referring to is “stupid” or “lame”. This one, I still do in real life and it is now biting me in the ass. I’ve recently found out that my neighbor’s kid “thinks” he’s bisexual. I often catch myself saying “That’s fucking gay” and then wishing I could have it back. The other day, his dad and mom, great folks both of them, were in MY back yard helping me dig up a pipe that was buried 3 feet down. My other neighbor walks up and said she had just watched Brokeback Mountain. I say “You mean Bendover Mountain? Did you like the cocksucking scene?”

My neighbor just bows his head…I felt as big as a paramecium’s dick.

As you can see, I’m not a PC person either. [twist this for smack]I live with my foot stuck in my mouth.[/twist this for smack] I hate it. I don’t try to offend anybody, but I’m always the one that cracks the joke here or there. “That guy” will always have to take one for the team sometimes.

At least here on the boards, I am allowed to censor myself. Wish I could do so in real life more.

[King Crimson]

i feel a bit the same way about the use of the word "cripple" as a pejorative. one of my best buddies is a quadripligic from a car accident. before he was hurt he worked as miner and lumberjack in Colorado and was apparently a pretty damn good small district high school football player. since the accident, he's got a Master's degree and a PhD....and has several academic publications.

he pisses in a bag hooked into his cock by a catheter and shits in a bag stapped to his ass and sits with it all day in his chair. in a lot of ways just to get up in the morning and live everyday is a lot more courage than most people will ever have. what Skull says about daily struggle is on the money. just going to the store and being as self-sufficient as possible and maintaining a sense of *your own* sense of pride on *your terms*....is a lot of work.

and yet he's a "cripple".

[Dinsdale]

Sorry, but since MGO isn't here at present, I have to chime in --

Is it my job to police this board or society as far as venacular goes? Nope.

That's probably a good thing. I'll let you figure out why on your own...funny, though.


But, spellingsmack aside, you make a solid, essentially inarguable point. While I'm a long way from being PC, I don't want my words to hurt anyone that I didn't intend them to, and I'm as guilty as a person can be of this offense, both on here(which doesn't amount to a hill of beans), and in real life (where it does matter what I say).

Point noted, and I promise to try and improve this aspect of my personality in my day-to-day life....and I make no promises whatsoever about my conduct on this board, except I might back away from calling Cicero a "tard," since he is one in real life.

[Cicero]

How long do you think some one would last around here dropping N bombs?

Your brethren, Sissyroo, is still around.

But I dont anymore and I havent since I was told it wasnt allowed, have I?

[WolverineSteve]

Check out this karma...

My buddy used to laugh at handicapped folk and loosely throw around the "r" word. I used to just shrug him off and tell him that there would be a nice little spot in hell awaiting him. Another of our group of friends was equally offensive to both the menatally and physically challenged. He was an absolute jackass (my apologies to donkeys everywhere). Both these guys were brutal.

Long story short...buddy number 1 gets married, wifey gets preggers, delivers way prematurely and baby dies. Buddy number 2 finds love, gets married has a son(my God son) ...born with Downs syndrome. Now I don't know if one thing had anything to do with the other, but I think everyone would be better served to treat all people, especially those who suffer from disabilities, with dignity. It's what they and their loved ones want most for them.

Rack Nolesy for the post.

[indyfrisco]

How long do you think some one would last around here dropping N bombs?

Your brethren, Sissyroo, is still around.

But I dont anymore and I havent since I was told it wasnt allowed, have I?

Not on the CFB board, no.

[indyfrisco]

True story…just happened today at lunch.

I’m driving in the parking lot behind this car with a license plate with a wheelchair on it. Stereotype fit here. They were trucking along at 1/3 mph. As we near the front of the restaurant, I see 2 parking spots right up front. One is a handicapped spot. The other a regular spot.

Rack me and my rock star parking I’m about to score!

Car pulls into the open non-handicapped spot. For half a second I started to cuss them. Then I said “Good for you” as they saved the only handicap spot left for someone who needed it.

All this happened before this thread was posted. That behavior, I assure you, I attribute to Nolesy. Rack the old UBB codeless codger.

[T REX]

I thought we retired the word. I did.

[the_ouskull]

Guys, threads like this one are why we've all been together for 5+ years...

...and gay sex. (NTTAWWT) We're all here for that too.

the_ouskull

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

but I’m always the one that cracks the joke here or there. “That guy” will always have to take one for the team sometimes.

In.

It works out most of the time. People can generally tell you're not a genuine "hater". The key is to be as outwardly sarcastic as possible.

BTW - Nolesy, what are you like 16? I think I wrote an essay like that in 7th grade.

Logically, calling a tard a tard has no impact. They don't even realize they're being insulted. When I was 20, I had an after-class job hauling around the mentally/physically disabled on a short bus. On an occasion I'd say things like, "You tards crack me up" and they'd all just start laughing. They don't know the difference. Sure, it was probably insensitive, but deep down, I loved those goofy bastards.

[PSUFAN]

Well..."tard" has become a part of our vernacular that has less and less to do with actual Downs Syndrome, or any other actual real-life scenario. I'm sure that most of us that have used it have done so along those lines.

That said, I undestand how a term can be loaded with significance for other people...and since it's really just a term, it's best to choose another, imo.

That - and I highly respect Nolesy, to the extent that I'm willing to avoid a certain pejorative on the boards for whatever reason he might ask it of me, no questions asked or answers required.

[WolverineSteve]

Check out this karma...



Long story short...buddy number 1 gets married, wifey gets preggers, delivers way prematurely and baby dies. Buddy number 2 finds love, gets married has a son(my God son) ...born with Downs syndrome. Now I don't know if one thing had anything to do with the other, but I think everyone would be better served to treat all people, especially those who suffer from disabilities, with dignity. It's what they and their loved ones want most for them.

Rack Nolesy for the post.

Steve, you might want to check your thinking and how you look at things if you think that your buddy's kid being born with Down Syndrome is bad karma or God getting even with him. I hope to all that's holy that he doesn't look at his kid that way.

Sorry, man, but that rubbed me the wrong way.

I've worked as a volunteer for Special Olympics most of my life. My father was the Director of Special Education for a large urban school district for 20 years, then took a job as the State DOE coordinator of special education, and now runs a consulting business for school district ADA compliance. I'd like to think I'm as sensitive to the mentally challenged as the next guy.

That being said, I'll drop "tard" every so often without any rancor directed at the mentally challenged, just like I'll call someone a spaz without hating the epileptic. Pretty much EVERY name we can call each other or an act has a derivation in something either ethnic or medical. Hell, even calling someone dumb could be construed as being hateful to the mute.

Nolesy, I apologize for giving offense in the past with the word, and I'll go ahead and apologize now for giving offense in the future with it. There is basically no way I can EVER call someone a name that's not going to be offensive to some group somewhere. The best I can do is never use something directly hateful to that person to that person. I'd never call someone with epilepsy a spaz. I'd never call someone with Down's Syndrome a mongoloid. But you can be damn sure that at some point, Cicero or SoCal are going to say something that I'm going to respond to by calling THEM a mongoloid. It probably ain't right, and it probably ain't cool, and there's really nothing I can say to defend it.

BtH,
He's my Godchild and he means the world to me. Nobody (to my knowledge) has ever brought up the karma thing. I just thought it ironic that these things happened to guys who were total jackasses in this area. The little guy is very loved and well taken care of. I think next year we'll take him on his first trip to the Big House, and soon after a trip to a Tigers game. If in fact there is a God I think he brought Nicholas to my friend to help him understand the virtues of dignity and respect, and how to treat all people. I know he's a far better man since the birth of Nick.

[Left Seater]

Rack Nolesy and the light he has shed on this for me. I no longer use the word because of his pointing it out to me.

Much like Frisco though I still use the term gay all the time. That one has been much harder to break, and maybe it is because I really don't care.

[Nolesy]

[quote="MgoBlue-LightSpecial"]

"Logically, calling a tard a tard has no impact. They don't even realize they're being insulted. On an occasion I'd say things like, "You tards crack me up" and they'd all just start laughing. "They don't know the difference." I fear you have missed my point.


Understand that I am no saint or crusader. I was merely trying to raise awarenesss with out having to take pledges and then run, walk, or ride x number of miles
As far as that word getting thrown around here who am I to make that call? Those who don't out of respect for me or they have become somewhat enlightened by what I have said thats great. Those who choose to continue, have at it. As stated before I think most of this crew is pretty stand up and the reaction to this will bear this out.

Frisco, I to am a bad one for letting my toungue cut my throat. If only I could have back a fraction of the things I have said with out thinking....................................

As far as the karma thing, I really don't think God rolls that way.

I don't think it was a God payback thing but I can remeber what my first thought was when they broke the news to us about our son. I thought, Damn after all the years I spent talking to other parents about thier children now some one is putting it in my face. What goes around really does come around.
It hurts a great deal to see your child as "different" especially around other kids. All you can do is suck it up, don't get caught up in your own grief, and go the extra mile for them.

The gay thing, well I could use a lot of improvement there. I guess I always thought it was thier choice as opposed to mentally rtetarded people having no choice. Plus I am a real fan of the mentally retarded and feel very comfortable with them. Gays make me uneasy on several levals.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

What goes around really does come around

Not so sure about this. I think in order for this to be even remotely true, it's gotta hold up at least 90% of the time. And it doesn't at all. I've seen far too many jerks and aholes continue to prosper in all kinds of ways. If the basis of your belief for this philosophy is due to a Higher Being, that's one thing, and your opinion likely won't ever be changed, but how could a "non believer" believe in such a data-less, unsubstantiated theory?

If the "comes around" does happen, it's merely coincidence, and the result of the random probabilites of anything happening.

In short, someone who kills a baby has just as good a chance of winning the lottery as Mother Teresa does.

[MiketheangrydrunkenCUfan]

OK, now I'm confused. Is it gay to use the word "tard," or is it retarded to use the word "gay"?

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

What if they're gay and retarded?

Is gaytard off limits?

[Danimal]

"Logically, calling a tard a tard has no impact. They don't even realize they're being insulted. On an occasion I'd say things like, "You tards crack me up" and they'd all just start laughing. "They don't know the difference." I fear you have missed my point.


Understand that I am no saint or crusader. I was merely trying to raise awarenesss with out having to take pledges and then run, walk, or ride x number of miles
As far as that word getting thrown around here who am I to make that call? Those who don't out of respect for me or they have become somewhat enlightened by what I have said thats great. Those who choose to continue, have at it. As stated before I think most of this crew is pretty stand up and the reaction to this will bear this out.

Frisco, I to am a bad one for letting my toungue cut my throat. If only I could have back a fraction of the things I have said with out thinking....................................

As far as the karma thing, I really don't think God rolls that way.

I don't think it was a God payback thing but I can remeber what my first thought was when they broke the news to us about our son. I thought, Damn after all the years I spent talking to other parents about thier children now some one is putting it in my face. What goes around really does come around.
It hurts a great deal to see your child as "different" especially around other kids. All you can do is suck it up, don't get caught up in your own grief, and go the extra mile for them.

The gay thing, well I could use a lot of improvement there. I guess I always thought it was thier choice as opposed to mentally rtetarded people having no choice. Plus I am a real fan of the mentally retarded and feel very comfortable with them. Gays make me uneasy on several levals.

You honestly think somebody chooses to be gay? It is your choice to accept your gayness and act on it but IMO genetic predisposition and prenatal factors are the main culprits with some environmental factors coming into play during upbringing. Gay is just what you are IMO not something you just up-and-decide-to-be like with a new career, religion, or whatever. For example my boss has a gay brother. He is an older guy that grew-up in small-town Nebraska that didn't even know what gay was as a kid. But he was very effeminate from very early on and was always "different" from the other boys. That dude didn't decide to be queer he just is.

I do have your back on the "retard" thing though. I've always considered picking on them especially low since they, unlike other groups one may be bigoted against, can't even fight back.

[Harvdog]

Rack Nolesy for this topic. I have a 5 year old nephew who was diagnosed with Aspergers. I too am guilty of using the "Tard" word. When I see my nephew I think the world of him. My sister lives in Utah so I see him twice a year. But the way he acts to me you would think I see him every day. Just a total joy to be around. I have an issue with people that like to label children. Now, I am not a religious nut, but I think that god has a plan for these angels. Children with special needs are the closest things to an angel walking this earth. I also think that god only selscts those that are capable of nurturing these kids. RACK you NOLELSY. I have a funny story about my nephew.....

He told me that he used to be the God of Wind in ancicent Egypt. I was like, really. Then he told me how he was mummified. He explanined the entire process. I looked at my sister and she just shrugged. I wondered how he knew the process since he cannot read and he rarely watched TV? His name is John and he also told me that he was in a rock band in Eqypt. I asked him the name of the group and he told me "Johnny and the Rockin' Pharoahs." I damn near fell out of my chair. For x-mas he is getting a poster with his face on the Sphinx and a logo in the background.

[Nolesy]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Aspergers kids have a limited sphere of intrest. Generally they are so engrossed in 1 or 2 subjects that they don't give a rats ass about anything else. Perhaps your lil nep has an " Egyptian thing". My son has a truck thing . if you can hook it up to a trailer watch out.
Never the less the story made me nod and smile.

[Nolesy]

Btw, he did'nt develope his love for trucks until he was about 4. Prior to that he was all over pots and pans. He loved to bang them, pretend he was stirring things in them, ect. There was a few years where we would'nt dare go through the housewares section of wal-mart.
Many times we would go to friends and relatives homes and he would blow by them with out even a greeting, head for thier kitchen, and begin pulling thier pots and pans out and getting busy. Even if he never was in that house before he knew pots and pans were kept in the kitchen and would go in and help himself.