Bad news for Thumpers

RadioFan · Post by **RadioFan** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 6:18 pm

Finches named for Darwin are evolving

WASHINGTON - Finches on the Galapagos Islands that inspired Charles Darwin to develop the concept of evolution are now helping confirm it — by evolving.

A medium sized species of Darwin's finch has evolved a smaller beak to take advantage of different seeds just two decades after the arrival of a larger rival for its original food source.

The altered beak size shows that species competing for food can undergo evolutionary change, said Peter Grant of Princeton University, lead author of the report appearing in Friday's issue of the journal Science.

Grant has been studying Darwin's finches for decades and previously recorded changes responding to a drought that altered what foods were available.

It's rare for scientists to be able to document changes in the appearance of an animal in response to competition. More often it is seen when something moves into a new habitat or the climate changes and it has to find new food or resources, explained Robert C. Fleischer, a geneticist at the Smithsonian's National Museum of Natural History and National Zoo.

This was certainly a documented case of microevolution, added Fleischer, who was not part of Grant's research.

Grant studied the finches on the Galapagos island Daphne, where the medium ground finch, Geospiza fortis, faced no competition for food, eating both small and large seeds.

In 1982 a breeding population of large ground finches, Geospiza magnirostris, arrived on the island and began competing for the large seeds of the Tribulus plants. G. magnirostris was able to break open and eat these seeds three times faster than G. fortis, depleting the supply of these seeds.

In 2003 and 2004 little rain fell, further reducing the food supply. The result was high mortality among G. fortis with larger beaks, leaving a breeding population of small-beaked G. fortis that could eat the seeds from smaller plants and didn't have to compete with the larger G. magnirostris for large seeds.

That's a form of evolution known as character displacement, where natural selection produces an evolutionary change in the next generation, Grant explained in a recorded statement made available by Science.

The research was supported by the National Science Foundation.

---------

Now hold on a second here. How do we know that these birds just didn't spontaneously develop smaller beaks, through a miracle by a creator?

-- Creation "scientist"

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 6:28 pm

And here I thought he was going to say that Bambi is back and boy is he pissed off.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 6:31 pm

This is going to cut into our profits, isn't it?

Sin,
Organized Religion

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 6:45 pm

Who is Galapagos? Is that an Abramoff contributor?

--Thumpers

mothster · Post by **mothster** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 6:48 pm

darwin was just doing what god instructed---------

thumpers

Rich Fader · Post by **Rich Fader** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 7:32 pm

Exhibit A for the proposition that Darwin was full of shit:

viewforum.php?f=2

If we are the end result of millions of years of random mutation and natural selection geared toward the survival of the fittest traits...damn, we're screwed.

Eaglebauer · Post by **Eaglebauer** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 8:00 pm

Actually, atheism is more incompatible with evolution than theism.

-Dio

KatMode · Post by **KatMode** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 8:45 pm

The jury's still out on this one.

-Sin,

George W. Bush

rozy · Post by **rozy** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 2:44 am

Tom In VA · Post by **Tom In VA** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 2:45 am

rozy wrote:

HPOTD, RACK ROZY

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 4:09 am

~ A medium sized species of Darwin's finch has evolved a smaller beak to take advantage of different seeds just two decades after the arrival of a larger rival for its original food source ~

Microevolution is nothing to start a topic about.

Trampis · Post by **Trampis** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 4:24 am

I thought this was going to be about four-stroke motorcycles,have they evolved too?

Mister Bushice · Post by **Mister Bushice** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 4:30 am

Hold up a minute, pop. Microevolution occurred in my house last summer.

A 10 year old, a foil wrapped burrito, voila. Microwave oven evolved into large paperweight.

Come to think of it there was some big bang theory involved in the mix, too.

Don't try this at home.

Diogenes · Post by **Diogenes** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:29 am

Sounds like bad news for large-beaked finches.

Aside from fundie atheists, I doubt anyone else gives a flying fuck.

Terry in Crapchester · Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:42 am

Dinsdale wrote:This is going to cut into our profits, isn't it?

Sin,
Organized Religion

Depends on what organized religion you're talking about. Many organized religions, and yes, organized Christian religions, don't require a literal reading of Genesis, and therefore, are compatible with evolution.

Eaglebauer wrote:Actually, atheism is more incompatible with evolution than theism.

-Dio

You haven't paid much attention to what Dio has to say about evolution, have you?

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 1:35 pm

Here goes...

Any time a religion does require a literal reading, it has exposed itself as a sham.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 1:45 pm

Hem, Sham, and Japheth walked into a bar .............

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 1:56 pm

http://www.earlyjewishwritings.com/text ... ook12.html

Tom In VA · Post by **Tom In VA** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 2:57 pm

Sure it looks like a yawn ...... eyes closed mouth open ....

Eyes closed mouth open ....
Eyes gently shut and the mouth open ....

I don't think it takes an anthropologist to see how that image could easily evolve from a perception of a beautiful woman yawning .....

BRB, hope nobody put any Sea Monkies in my toilet, I might cause Darwin to roll over in his grave.

Diogenes · Post by **Diogenes** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 1:42 am

PSUFAN wrote:Here goes...

Any time a religion does require a literal reading, it has exposed itself as a sham.

Leave The descent of man out of this.

TIA.

Bucmonkey · Post by **Bucmonkey** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 2:01 am

End of Days...........

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 2:26 am

PSUFAN wrote:Here goes...

Any time a religion does require a literal reading, it has exposed itself as a sham.

Here goes?

Here goes what?

You spouting nonsense?

I already got that.

No need to further the demonstration.

RadioFan · Post by **RadioFan** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 4:19 am

War Wagon wrote:
PSUFAN wrote:Here goes...

Any time a religion does require a literal reading, it has exposed itself as a sham.
Here goes?

Here goes what?

You spouting nonsense?

I already got that.

No need to further the demonstration.

Actually, in the context of this thread, what he probably was referring to was the literal interpretation of the Earth being made in 6 days, 10,000 years ago, or so.

Evolution, Bud-san. Check into it with a Sam Adams ultra light sometime.

Diogenes · Post by **Diogenes** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 12:43 pm

Actually it was the entire universe being created in 6 days, 10,000 years ago.

Which of course has nothing to do with the devolution of finches. Besides, it's all still relative.

smackaholic · Post by **smackaholic** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:41 am

I was expecting to read something about kawasaki discontinuing the KLR.