Cheers, to a great man...

BlindRef · Post by **BlindRef** » Tue Aug 01, 2006 12:07 pm

A great man has passed:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=2535251

Former Ohio State president Harold Enarson, who fired Woody Hayes after the football coach slugged an opposing player in a 1978 bowl game, has died. He was 87.

Enarson presided over Ohio State during the anti-war demonstrations and helped the university hire more minorities and women.

But he fired Woody Hayes, and for that, I salute him.

Sky · Post by **Sky** » Tue Aug 01, 2006 2:13 pm

Well of course you are happy. Of course you would want to get rid of a coach who was beating your team most of the time. It is kind of like you hated Prez Kirwan for firing Cooper.

L45B · Post by **L45B** » Tue Aug 01, 2006 3:34 pm

Just like we'll hate the asshole that fires LLLLoyd.

WolverineSteve · Post by **WolverineSteve** » Tue Aug 01, 2006 5:36 pm

Yes Woodrow had a winning record against Michigan, however....

He lost the last three.
Was bested by Bo in the "Ten Year War" 5-4-1

Rack Enarson for waking up and smelling the dementia.

I miss Coop.

Jimmy Medalions · Post by **Jimmy Medalions** » Tue Aug 01, 2006 7:41 pm

L45B wrote:Just like we'll hate the asshole that fires LLLLoyd.

The Seer · Post by **The Seer** » Tue Aug 01, 2006 10:46 pm

I liked Woody and what he brought to college football. He was just misunderstood.

Cicero · Post by **Cicero** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 1:26 pm

Woody lost it there at the end. But he is arguably the second best coach of the past 50 years, next to The Bear.

Nolesy · Post by **Nolesy** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 2:03 pm

Woody punches like a bitch.

Sincerely, Clemson defensive back.

L45B · Post by **L45B** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 3:36 pm

What few people know is Woody flew to Clemson the week after the game and spent a whole day with Charlie Bauman. What Seer said.

Sky · Post by **Sky** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 4:57 pm

Nolesy wrote:Woody punches like a bitch.

Sincerely, Clemson defensive back.

Before you start dropping questionable smack, do you at least want to take the time and look up the players name and positon???? A little big for a DB I think.

Nolesy · Post by **Nolesy** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 7:12 pm

Sky wrote:
Nolesy wrote:Woody punches like a bitch.

Sincerely, Clemson defensive back.
Before you start dropping questionable smack, do you at least want to take the time and look up the players name and positon???? A little big for a DB I think.

Actually no, I don't want to waste the time looking up the players name, number, or position. I am working off memory here. As I recollect, one of the greatest coaches in the history of college football ruined a glorious carrer by melting down when an opposing player intercepted a pass.

Sky · Post by **Sky** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 7:24 pm

By ruining a great career you mean he is revered by the vast majority of OSU fans and by many other fans? Yes we all make mistakes but he paid his dues and remedied the problem with the player.

But of course, you are right, a single mis-step is much worse than the years of corruption your coach has committed.

Woody made better men and ran his program by the rules, he made a mistake but didn't corrupt whole generations of young men.

Nolesy · Post by **Nolesy** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 7:31 pm

Sky wrote:By ruining a great career you mean he is revered by the vast majority of OSU fans and by many other fans? Yes we all make mistakes but he paid his dues and remedied the problem with the player.

But of course, you are right, a single mis-step is much worse than the years of corruption your coach has committed.

Woody made better men and ran his program by the rules, he made a mistake but didn't corrupt whole generations of young men.

So are you Jon= bitches new troll? Corrupt generations of young men?
Link, proof, or some simbalence of rational for that statement please.
and as far as being revered are you refering to the first thing coming to ones mind out side of Ohio when Woody's name is mentioned is the fact that he went Jackie Chan on some 20 year old kid? Sorry don't want to waste the time looking up the kids age.

Nolesy · Post by **Nolesy** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 7:34 pm

Try scanning through past threads to find posts by a fellow named 88. Now theres a rabid buckeye fan who knows of what he speaks. Perhaps you could pick up a few pointers.

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 7:42 pm

Sky, eject. A single misstep?

Hayes' volatile temper was often on display during key football games, an emotional flaw that often overshadowed his coaching ability, with one acquaintance saying of Hayes, "Woody's idea of sublimating is to hit someone." In 1956, Hayes attacked a television cameraman following a defeat to the University of Iowa, which was followed three years later by an incident in which Hayes took a swing at Los Angeles Examiner sportswriter Al Bine, but missed and instead struck the brother of Pasadena Independent sports editor Bob Shafer. The scuffle had followed a 17-0 shutout loss to the University of Southern California.

Another loss to Iowa in the 1960's resulted in Hayes cutting his face with the large ring on his left hand. Hayes' rage with that team stemmed from his feud with the Hawkeyes' head coach and athletic director, Forest Evashevski, which in a May 1965 meeting of Big Ten Conference athletic directors and coaches saw Hayes nearly come to blows with this rival.

In two instances at arch-rival Michigan, his fury also got the best of him: in 1971, he tore up sideline markers following what he thought was a missed defensive pass interference call against Michigan and six years later, a late fumble caused him to charge an ABC television cameraman who had recorded his frustration. The latter incident resulted in Hayes being put on probation by the Big Ten Conference.

In between those incidents, Hayes' deportment during two separate Rose Bowl appearances also created headlines. Just prior to the 1973 contest, Hayes pushed a camera into the face of a news photographer, screaming, "That'll take care of you, you son of a bitch." Three years later, after UCLA had stunned the Buckeyes and cost them a national championship, Hayes refused to let anyone speak to the media following the game.

This "anger management" problem eventually resulted in a heart attack in June 1974, and four years later, brought an end to Hayes' career. On December 29, 1978 in the team's Gator Bowl contest against the Clemson Tigers, middle guard Charlie Bauman's interception in the closing seconds of the game caused Hayes to strike him as he got up. ESPN later named this the most unsportsmanlike play of all time. Just hours after returning to Columbus, Hayes was informed of his dismissal.

The irony in the situation was that Hayes had seen his reputation damaged just as his idol, Gen. George S. Patton had in 1944 when he allegedly struck a soldier. After the incident, Hayes reflected on his career by saying, "Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach." Nonetheless, Coach Hayes was viewed as a "tragic figure."

He was an ass and should be an embarrassment to OSUFan despite his on field success.

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 7:46 pm

btw, Bowden has more class in his turds than Woody Hayes ever had.

Mr T · Post by **Mr T** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 7:57 pm

Sky wrote: But of course, you are right, a single mis-step is much worse than the years of corruption your coach has committed.

Woody made better men and ran his program by the rules, he made a mistake but didn't corrupt whole generations of young men.

FSU is in this fools dome for real.

This is his third post in a week about how bad FSU is.

My lord. We havent even had any big issues this offseason. Two former players broke into Bookers apartment....I believe that is all.

Nolesy · Post by **Nolesy** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 8:48 pm

T, were up though :x . UF had thiers, 4 Miami players suspended for the opener yesterday. Were up in the rotation.

I don't know if sky is pissed because Woody slugged like a bitch or Bowden has won over 360 games without striking any one.

Mr T · Post by **Mr T** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 9:09 pm

I think he is pissed because Ginn Jr and Troy Smith are only driving 06 models and not an 07.

And the Buckeyes are 0-3 against FSU. Two of those being in the shoe.

Cicero · Post by **Cicero** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 9:18 pm

People in glass houses shouldnt throw stones, fellow Noles.

Nolesy · Post by **Nolesy** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 9:20 pm

If you can't keep up crown stay on the side line.

Cicero · Post by **Cicero** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 9:24 pm

Not Crown, dickbag. I'll call you out as long as you look like an assclown when accusing Buckeye fan of shady program behavior, when the Noles have nothing to brag about.

Mr T · Post by **Mr T** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 9:34 pm

Only responding to him calling out FSU over the past week in about 3 posts.

If you got a problem with me defending FSU, I understand considering you are a duke fan.

Cicero · Post by **Cicero** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 9:45 pm

Ahhh the tired response.

Nolesy · Post by **Nolesy** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 11:11 pm

Read the ENTIRE thread Crown. Again, if you can't keep up stay on the sidelines.
Btw, you say you are not crown but you fail to demonstrate that fact.

Cicero · Post by **Cicero** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 3:59 am

How do you want me to demonstrate mother fucker? He posts on here. Get a clue. BTW, I read the thread and you started to flame when you called out their program for giving money and gifts.

buckeye_in_sc · Post by **buckeye_in_sc** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 10:04 am

06 vs 07 models...that was funny rack...

0-3 against FSU...rack

nice comebacks...rack

there have been a lot of shady dealings in many programs over the years...Nolesy kind of hit the nail on the head...it is cyclical if you ask me...i mean tOSU has been pretty much not in the news since the Clarett debacle (Football wise)...so actually yeah it is nice hearing about USC, OU, etc...hell even duke had some kids suspended for plagerism, and some other shit...what is this world coming to...

it's all good with me Nole fans...we can trade barbs about this stuff...but yawn...I would rather try and get the record to 1-3 and hopefully if the cards fall right we might get the chance this year...

L8

Sky · Post by **Sky** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 12:29 pm

IndyFrisco wrote:Sky, eject. A single misstep?

Hayes' volatile temper was often on display during key football games, an emotional flaw that often overshadowed his coaching ability, with one acquaintance saying of Hayes, "Woody's idea of sublimating is to hit someone." In 1956, ...

Come on Frisco, quoting without links, you are better than that. And for every one of those disparaging comments, there twice as many proud comments.

However, I will concede, there was more than one mistake but I think you guys make a unfair comparison when you compare a coach's behavior from the 50's - 70's versus today's coaches. The "rules and guidelines" are different. I think things changed after Woody and they are evident with coaches like Bob Knight. Their methods aren't tolerated today...but back then, I don't think they were seen as horrible as we might see them today. Still, he had his anger management issues.

But, he was and is loved by OSU fans and many many others respect him for the type of man he was. As much as he blew a gasket now and then and ultimately made one huge mistake, he was a great asset to tOSU and the players under him.

Woody Hayes was often quoted as saying "You can never pay back; but you can always pay forward." Paying forward was a foreign concept to me at first; but the more I thought about it, I understood what Woody meant. If good things have been done for you, you really can't pay them back, but you can pay them forward by doing good things for someone in need.

The book You Win With People! gives examples of Woody Hayes paying forward:
- made four trips to Vietnam to visit American service men, without being asked, and spent hundreds of his own dollars on calling families of GIs he had never met
- accepted a portable TV as a personal gift from the Dispatch and took it directly to the hospital room of an OSU student paralyzed in a touch football accident
- reportedly turned down raises on many occasions, hoping to stem the tide of inflationary spiral

Hayes combined a warm family nature with a quick wit and a sense of humor, and many remember his broad grin that could "win over any crowd." Hayes also had a tender side, often taking his football players to visit young patients at the Columbus Children's Hospital.

Hayes truly loved Ohio State, serving as a great friend and teacher to many of its graduates and former students. He delivered an emotional Commencement Address at the institution in early 1986 in which he noted that it was not shameful to have been fired, citing Gen. Douglas MacArthur

Hayes was passionate about education and insisted that the football players were students first and athletes second. Hayes was known to conduct English classes with the players and he closely monitored their academic progress.

Although remembered today primarily for this incident and his impressive record, there was more to Coach Hayes than football. He maintained a good relationship with the university, and in retirement was in great demand on the speaking circuit. Hayes cared little about money and was known to frequently refuse speaking fees or to donate them to charitable causes. Hayes was inducted in to the Football hall of Fame in 1983, the same year he had the honor of "dotting the i" for the Ohio State band's signature script Ohio.

Students first, oh what is that bull shit. He should really look to FSU and see how a real program is run.

How did Woody's players feel about his antics? Some did not like it, but others loved Woody Hayes. Archie Griffin said, "The way Coach Hayes showed he cared about you was to get on you for your mistakes, but then build you up afterward. That's what players loved about him." Quarterback Rod Gerald, who Woody helped to kick a drug abuse habit, said "Next to my father, he was the greatest man I ever knew."

Like Vincent Lombardi, the legendary coach of the Green Bay Packers, Hayes drove his players mercilessly. At practices he would often pound on their helmets and let loose a stream of invectives when they did something wrong. Yet few would say a word against him because of the bond between this volcanic, yet deeply caring man, and the young men who played for him.
Archie Griffin, former tailback at OSU and a two-time Heisman Trophy winner, felt that bond. When he learned of Hayes' death, Griffin said, "It hit Me like a bomb. It feels like my father had passed away. He was like a father to us Maws-"
One of Hayes' greatest stars, Archie stresses how close the coach was to his players and how he stressed teamwork. Asked if it was Hayes' prodding that propelled him to two Heismans, Griffin says no - it was a team effort.

Mr T wrote:And the Buckeyes are 0-3 against FSU. Two of those being in the shoe.

Thats cool, we haven't played since '98 but I would like to meet you guys this year. Just remind me again, how many national championships has Bowden won and how many did Woody win?

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 2:17 pm

Sky,

I got my info from wikipedia, one of the sites you also quoted from. They were all facts, not "comments".

The rest of yours look mostly to be OSU fan sites which I'm sure have SOME objectivity.

Listen, I know times are different. I look at Coach K though as an example. Look who his mentor was. Does Coach K have ANY of those qualities, and I use ther term qualities loosely? Coach K began coaching in an era where this "behavior" was more tolerated as well, but he chose a different route, a civil one.

Saying Woody's violent behavior is OK because it was tolerated is like saying racism is OK because it was tolerated. While racism is a much deeper cut, Woody's philosophy of "hit first and ask questions later" was wrong too.

He was a great coach as far as the W column is concerned. He was a horrible human being on the sidelines. Just because he did some good things off the field did does not excuse the bad things he did on it.

Nolesy · Post by **Nolesy** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 2:37 pm

Cicero wrote:How do you want me to demonstrate mother fucker? He posts on here. Get a clue. BTW, I read the thread and you started to flame when you called out their program for giving money and gifts.

Crown, just where did I call out thier program for giving money and gifts. Now I did call them out because of Woody swining at the Clemson player.
Let me suggest to you crown that you look in the left hand margin of each post. There you will find what is called a moniker. This allows you to discern WHO posted WHAT.

Nolesy · Post by **Nolesy** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 2:41 pm

buckeye_in_sc wrote:06 vs 07 models...that was funny rack...

0-3 against FSU...rack

nice comebacks...rack

there have been a lot of shady dealings in many programs over the years...Nolesy kind of hit the nail on the head...it is cyclical if you ask me...i mean tOSU has been pretty much not in the news since the Clarett debacle (Football wise)...so actually yeah it is nice hearing about USC, OU, etc...hell even duke had some kids suspended for plagerism, and some other shit...what is this world coming to...

it's all good with me Nole fans...we can trade barbs about this stuff...but yawn...I would rather try and get the record to 1-3 and hopefully if the cards fall right we might get the chance this year...

L8

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Gets it.

Let me say that most of the Buck fans on here Have shown me alot. I would be happy to roll with any one of them. However, I do get off the train when some one trys to sell the fact that striking an opposing player is some how acceptable or a "one time thing" that should be over looked.

Sky · Post by **Sky** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 2:50 pm

IndyFrisco wrote:The rest of yours look mostly to be OSU fan sites which I'm sure have SOME objectivity.

Listen, I know times are different. I look at Coach K though as an example. Look who his mentor was. Does Coach K have ANY of those qualities, and I use ther term qualities loosely? Coach K began coaching in an era where this "behavior" was more tolerated as well, but he chose a different route, a civil one.

Saying Woody's violent behavior is OK because it was tolerated is like saying racism is OK because it was tolerated. While racism is a much deeper cut, Woody's philosophy of "hit first and ask questions later" was wrong too.

He was a great coach as far as the W column is concerned. He was a horrible human being on the sidelines. Just because he did some good things off the field did does not excuse the bad things he did on it.

Well, 2 of my 5 quotes were buckeye sites. I don't really think that deserves this

.

And I think you could argue Coach K either way. It could be your explanation that he chose not to coach that way or...because he had a aggressive yet caring teacher that he became the best of both worlds. Realistically it is probably a combination of both but to say "look at how he turned out" without conceding that Knight undoubtedly influenced the situation is unfair.

And no, I don't think Woodys behavior was OK because it was tolerated. I was just saying it is unfair to compare a coach's behavior and interactions in the 1950's with one from the present. He did cross the line by today's standards but back then they also paddled kids in school and children were made to respect their elders.

And how can you call him a horrible human being on the sideline????? Beyond the punch, what are you pointing to here? That he tore up some yard markers or swung at a camera man? That makes him a horrible human being? Sure he got mad and overreacted but I think that would equal someone with anger issues and not a horrible human being.

Did you read any of the quotes? There were guys who felt like their dad died when Woody passed away...is that really the sign of a horrible human being? My uncle Vic Stottlemyer played under Woody for four years and has nothing but good things to say about him. He says he was always hard on them but only to make them better at life. So if you have some personal vendetta because you saw a coach punch a player and you formed your opinion right there, we don't really need to continue this conversation. We all make mistakes but he atoned for that punch and the overall legacy if positive from where I stand.

Sky · Post by **Sky** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 2:56 pm

Nolesy wrote: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Gets it.

Let me say that most of the Buck fans on here Have shown me alot. I would be happy to roll with any one of them. However, I do get off the train when some one trys to sell the fact that striking an opposing player is some how acceptable or a "one time thing" that should be over looked.

Oh, well thanks so much almighty moral compass. What would we ever do without someone of your discerning opinion. And what the fuck are you talking about, I never once said his punch was acceptable and I agreed with Indy that there was more than one incident...but the punch was the most severe incident.

But is this how you get by with your team and your coach? "Well, Bowden may corrupt many players and he lets them break rules and commit crimes but at least he hasn't punched a player." Get off it you no-class fool. Woody made a mistake and got fired. Done, he paid his dues and apologized. It isn't like he committed numerous offenses over a long period of time without penalty.

Nolesy · Post by **Nolesy** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 3:19 pm

" Bowden is the seat of all corruption and crime in college football." When you are forced to play that card you clearly have no argument.

Since you are a big fan of looking things up go to google and search:
Warrick Dunn
Derrick Brookes
Brad Johnson
Kieth Jones
Corey simon, just to name a few. You will find how much of a "corruptive influence" Bowden has had on them.

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 4:03 pm

Sky,

I'm as objective as objective can be as far as Woody Hayes and OSU are concerned. Overall, I respect the HELL out of OSU, their school, their football program and their tradition.

However, I call a spade a spade. Woody, in my mind, ruined his legacy with all the shit he did. Bobby has done the same. I still think both Hayes and Knight are top notch coaches who have done many good things. However, the bad things they have done have overshadowed the good things. You've heard the cliche "Two steps forward and threee steps back". Sorry, but that is how the world works, at least the one I live in.

I'm not trying to change your opinion of the man. I was just giving you mine...which won't be changed no matter how many quotes you give me. I can assure you, Shine could give me just as many from Knight and I will not change my opinion of that asshole either.

Sky · Post by **Sky** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 4:05 pm

Nolesy wrote:" Bowden is the seat of all corruption and crime in college football." When you are forced to play that card you clearly have no argument.

Since you are a big fan of looking things up go to google and search:
Warrick Dunn
Derrick Brookes
Brad Johnson
Kieth Jones
Corey simon, just to name a few. You will find how much of a "corruptive influence" Bowden has had on them.

Dude, get off your fucking high horse. You don't respond to my questions and provide a list of "adimirable" players for me to look up? Ok, while I am looking those up :wink:, could you put together a little essay covering these fine players:

Sebastian Janikowski
Derrick Gibson
Laveranues Coles
Peter Warrick
A.J. Nicholson
Chris Rix
Craphonso Thorpe
Adrian McPherson
Wyatt Sexton
Cornelius Lewis
Derrick Harvey
Fred Rouse
Kenny O'Neal
Ernie Sims
Etc.....

Sky · Post by **Sky** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 4:10 pm

IndyFrisco wrote:Sky,

I'm as objective as objective can be as far as Woody Hayes and OSU are concerned. Overall, I respect the HELL out of OSU, their school, their football program and their tradition.

However, I call a spade a spade. Woody, in my mind, ruined his legacy with all the shit he did. Bobby has done the same. I still think both Hayes and Knight are top notch coaches who have done many good things. However, the bad things they have done have overshadowed the good things. You've heard the cliche "Two steps forward and threee steps back". Sorry, but that is how the world works, at least the one I live in.

I'm not trying to change your opinion of the man. I was just giving you mine...which won't be changed no matter how many quotes you give me. I can assure you, Shine could give me just as many from Knight and I will not change my opinion of that asshole either.

Well, fair enough. I understand your opinion and obviously I am bound to be biased toward Woody. And I agree with you when it comes to Knight and Hayes...had they not overreacted they would both be widely respected coaches. Their decisions tarnished their rep. Still, IMO their good deeds and their affect on their players will last well beyond their lives. Agree to disagree?

I guess your "Bowden has more class in his poop" comment threw me for a loop.

BlindRef · Post by **BlindRef** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 4:11 pm

I love how this thread started as a Michigan v Ohio State and the became everyone vs Nolesy thread.

Classic.

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 4:19 pm

Sure, disagree.

And I still think Bowden is very classy. I put him up there with Joe-Pa. Yeah, he sounds like a "Southern Dummy", but he runs a good program. He has problems with boosters and his kids making dumbass mistakes. That reflects on his program, but HIS actions have ALWAYS reflected well on his program and not the opposite.

So, that's where the "Bowden poop" comment came from.

Cicero · Post by **Cicero** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 4:58 pm

Sky wrote: Craphonso Thorpe
Ernie Sims

They dont belong on the lsit. Everyone else does.