More HOF talk...Randall Cunningham?

[Van]

So says Warren Moon, anyway...

I say fine, Randall's in, provided the HOF has a special wing for QB's who were the greatest ever at throwing exactly the wrong pass at exactly the wrong time to doom their team in yet another big game.

Randall had one of the league's best defenses. He often had a good running game. He had a great home field advantage.

He was also a League MVP.

He also was a Pro Bowler only 4 times in a very long career.

It can be argued that Randall was the innovator, the guy that changed the position...

He changed it, yeah, and he and made it worse, if anything. Thanks for giving us Michael Vick there, Randall.

Randall's numbers were singularly unspectacular and he has zero rings or SB appearances.

Warren Moon himself only got in for three reasons:

1-His CFL career
2-Sticking around long enough in a pass crazy system to amass huge numbers while never being a serious threat
3-His skin color

...and you can decide how much of a factor #3 played in his enshrinement. I say, nearly all of it. Being black was his difference maker, his "tie breaker". If Moon is white he doesn't get the politically motivated/politically correct "make up" HOF acceptance phone call. He just wasn't that special of a player, otherwise.

Randall? Not a chance.

What about Kurt Warner?

Two League MVPs, a ring and a SB MVP. Automatic then, as a Glamour Boy QB, right?

No way. He was just a product of his system and the huge beneficiary of otherworldy talent at the RB and WR positions. He also flamed out just as quickly as he exploded into dominance.

Art Monk? Gotta be in. When he retired he was #1. Unlike, say, a Don Sutton, who only amassed huge numbers through longevity but who also was never #1 at anything in any point in his career, Monk ended up being #1. Also, he has the "tie breaker" factor, the ring. He's gotta be in.

Dan Hampton? How in the hell did that happen??

Endlessly entertaining topic, the various HOFs and their picks/exclusions...

[jtr]

How about this one Van:
http://www.wwe.com/superstars/halloffam ... e/profile/
The all-time hit king of Major League Baseball, Pete Rose has established a legacy unforgettable to fans of America’s pastime. For fans of WWE, he created another extraordinary legacy with some of the most memorable celebrity appearances of all time. His appearances at WrestleMania XIV, WrestleMania XV, and WrestleMania 2000 are classic moments that stand among the celebrity highlights of WWE’s annual spectacular. Who can forget his repeated run-ins with Kane, which once featured Rose disguised as the Famous Chicken, as well as a skirmish where he found himself in a very unfortunate position courtesy of Rikishi? The ongoing relationship between Rose and WWE is the product of mutual respect—Rose’s respect for the unique entertainment form that is WWE, and WWE’s respect for Rose’s incredible athletic accomplishments. In a career that spanned 1963 to 1986, he compiled 4,256 hits, which broke the all-time record previously held by Ty Cobb. He was named National League Rookie of the Year in 1963 with the Cincinnati Reds, and went on to become an integral part of the famous “Big Red Machine” of the 1970s, playing in four World Series and winning two. In 1975, he was named World Series MVP in the Reds’ stirring seven-game victory over the Boston Red Sox. He enjoyed continued success with the Philadelphia Phillies, where he led the team to its first World Championship in 1980 and another National League pennant in 1983. He returned to the Reds in 1984 and served as manager from 1985 to 1988, leading his team to four consecutive second-place finishes

[Atomic Punk]

I imagine there will be a wave of parasympathetic reactions from sports writers to start dumping in Doug Williams at some point. Why not?

Why have a rule to only induct 5 at a time? If you have to go waaaay back to bring someone in, then you know it's political and not based on performance.

In Randall's case, he was a black QB. Why should he be a HOF'er? Why not Slash? He's black. How about putting in Michael Vick as an active player? Standards of the position don't mean anything. Being athletic and being a RB taking snaps shouldn't matter right?

[Qbert]

Hey! whoever is AWAKE......

Move this Thread please!!!!!

NFL MOD

this could be good!

[poptart]

Not much time, so I'll give quick answers to the names you dropped, Van.

Cunningham - No. Dynamic player, and DID have a few very good years. Hall of Good member.

Warner - No. Resume is just toooo short. If he could put up a couple more seasons like his '99 and '01 seasons he could get in as a 'Gale Sayers' type of case.

Monk - Yes. The NFL's all-time reception leader at the time of his retirement.

Hampton - No. VERY tough no vote though. The guy was a GREAT player for a few years. 'Only' made 4 pro bowls though, so when push comes to shove I'd have to give a thumbs down.

[poptart]

Bledsoe is 5th all-time in completions, and 7th all-time in passing yds.

Pretty heavy duty stuff.

Like Moon, he gets a NO vote from me though.

Bledsoe is this generation's Dan Fouts, who I also would have given a thumbs down.

[smackaholic]

So says Warren Moon, anyway...

I say fine, Randall's in, provided the HOF has a special wing for QB's who were the greatest ever at throwing exactly the wrong pass at exactly the wrong time to doom their team in yet another big game.

Randall had one of the league's best defenses. He often had a good running game. He had a great home field advantage.

He was also a League MVP.

He also was a Pro Bowler only 4 times in a very long career.

It can be argued that Randall was the innovator, the guy that changed the position...

He changed it, yeah, and he and made it worse, if anything. Thanks for giving us Michael Vick there, Randall.

Randall's numbers were singularly unspectacular and he has zero rings or SB appearances.

Warren Moon himself only got in for three reasons:

1-His CFL career
2-Sticking around long enough in a pass crazy system to amass huge numbers while never being a serious threat
3-His skin color

...and you can decide how much of a factor #3 played in his enshrinement. I say, nearly all of it. Being black was his difference maker, his "tie breaker". If Moon is white he doesn't get the politically motivated/politically correct "make up" HOF acceptance phone call. He just wasn't that special of a player, otherwise.

Randall? Not a chance.

What about Kurt Warner?

hate to break it to you van, but, he's pretty damn white.

Two League MVPs, a ring and a SB MVP. Automatic then, as a Glamour Boy QB, right?

No way. He was just a product of his system and the huge beneficiary of otherworldy talent at the RB and WR positions. He also flamed out just as quickly as he exploded into dominance. and he's white.

ftfy, nc.

Art Monk? Gotta be in. When he retired he was #1. Unlike, say, a Don Sutton, who only amassed huge numbers through longevity but who also was never #1 at anything in any point in his career, Monk ended up being #1. Also, he has the "tie breaker" factor, the ring. He's gotta be in.

wasn't aware than don even played in the nfl or that he was in the
hof.
pretty sure he's also not black.

Dan Hampton? How in the hell did that happen??

he's bl... ahhhh fuggit, never mind.

Endlessly entertaining topic, the various HOFs and their picks/exclusions...

Here's a question for you. Would RUSH be in the RRHOF if they were black?

Yer damn right they would. Hell, they'd be in some sort of HOF by being the only black folk to evah come from Canada.

[smackaholic]

hey, how'd I get in this shit forum? kinda like drinking too much and waking up next to an ugly beast.

[jiminphilly]

RC in the HOF? No way.

[Cicero]

No way Cunningham gets in. 4-5 good seasons doesnt make you a Hall of Famer. We are going to go thru this same shit in say 12-13 years w/ Mr. Vick.

[BSmack]

No way Cunningham gets in. 4-5 good seasons doesnt make you a Hall of Famer. We are going to go thru this same shit in say 12-13 years w/ Mr. Vick.

Has Vick even HAD 4-5 good seasons?

Just sayin.

As for Cunningham, he was a human highlight reel and a borderline HOFer.

[smackaholic]

No way Cunningham gets in. 4-5 good seasons doesnt make you a Hall of Famer. We are going to go thru this same shit in say 12-13 years w/ Mr. Vick.

Has Vick even HAD 4-5 good seasons?

Just sayin.

As for Cunningham, he was a human highlight reel and a borderline HOFer.

He was a human highlight reel. Had he had a bit more staying power, he'd be a shoe-in. The brotha factor might get him there. The only thing warren had on him was longevity.

[velocet]

hey, how'd I get in this shit forum? kinda like drinking too much and waking up next to an ugly beast.

SHIT FORUM?

Them's fightin' words, American Idol fanboy.




velocet

[poptart]

Vick's had one season that you could say was really good ('02).

Bri's right about Cunningham, btw.
It IS possible to make a reasonable case for him making the hall.
He had 6 seasons in Philly that were better than any of Vick's seasons to date.
Then he had a helluva year with Minnesota in '98.

He's closer to a HoFamer than a lot of people might think.

Bottom line is that he ought not get in though, IMO.

[Terry in Crapchester]

Here's a question for you. Would RUSH be in the RRHOF if they were black?

Yer damn right they would. Hell, they'd be in some sort of HOF by being the only black folk to evah come from Canada.

We're getting off topic, but . . .

If you believe that, you've obviously never been to Toronto.

[Felix]

hey, how'd I get in this shit forum? kinda like drinking too much and waking up next to an ugly beast.

SHIT FORUM?

Them's fightin' words, American Idol fanboy.




velocet

kick his ass seabass......

[Joe in PB]

Bri's right about Cunningham, btw.

It IS possible to make a reasonable case for him making the hall.

He had 6 seasons in Philly that were better than any of Vick's seasons to date.

Since when is Ron Mexico the bench mark for the HOF?

Then he had a helluva year with Minnesota in '98.

So did Jeff George when he played for Minni, as did Guss Frerotten when he got his chance. It's called the Randy Moss factor.

He's closer to a HoFamer than a lot of people might think.

Nah......he's not even in Don Williams’s league, as in poised in the pocket, a good surveyor of the field and accurate when it counted. He was an exciting player but continues to get too much credit for the Carl Banks highlight reel.

[jiminphilly]

RC did shit in the playoffs, skipping passes like rocks on water when it mattered.

He had a defense that ranked in the top 10 of all time yet did nothing on the otherside of the ball to win games.

He was a loop job who truly could not read a defense. He was a circus act with his ability to throw the ball 70 yards or leap defenders like hurdles on a track.

But he was not a leader. He was f'd up in the head and it showed in big games.

[DallasFanatic]

Rack jimbo for telling it like it is....errrrr was.

[Headhunter]

Yep, RC deserves to be in the hall of damn good.

He was a damn good player. He brought lots to the table. He could run, throw, punt. Even as an Eagle I respected him. And that says a lot.

But HOF? ehh. Not for me. I wouldn't riot if he got in, I just think he's a bubble kind of guy who didn't quite do enough to make it past damned good, to become an All-timer.

[Terry in Crapchester]

Gut reactions on the names floated in this thread:

Randall Cunningham: A very good career, but not quite HOF worthy.

Kurt Warner: Resume too short, and too much of a flash in the pan.

Art Monk: Retired as the NFL's all-time leading receiver. Definitely.

Dan Hampton: While I realize some disagree, I'll give him the nod. I was never a fan, but the '85 Bears have attained something of a mythical status, especially on the defensive side of the ball, and Hampton was one of their stars.

Drew Bledsoe: Also belongs in the Hall of Very Good. I'll admit to being surprised as to his career numbers, but he accumulated them to a major extent by hanging around for awhile -- I would suspect he ranks very high in terms of most starts among NFL QB's all-time. Disclaimer: I may not be an entirely fair evaluator in this matter -- the local fishhacks through everything at Bledsoe but the kitchen sink to run him out of town, and perhaps I was somewhat influenced by that. But one of his drawbacks to me is a relatively scant number of playoff appearances -- if memory serves, only four in 14 NFL seasons.

[Terry in Crapchester]

Drew Bledsoe: Also belongs in the Hall of Very Good. I'll admit to being surprised as to his career numbers, but he accumulated them to a major extent by hanging around for awhile

i could see that arguement if he'd thrown for 2500 yards for 17 years straight but nine years passing over 3000 yards, breaking 4000 in three of those are HOF numbers. he may fall into the archie manning category of having great numbers because he had to throw a lot late in games but even if that's the case, you can't argue with the yardage.

I didn't cross-reference to Bledsoe's starts, but his teams' career records are only 107-101. No other position is tied in so directly to his team's success as is the quarterback, if only in the public perception. His teams' relative lack of success is not entirely on Bledsoe, of course, but a 107-101 mark, or thereabouts, as a starting QB is not HOF-worthy.

Also, the only season he was on a Super Bowl winner, he was injured relatively early on, and never regained the starting QB position.

Other negatives: a TD-INT ratio of only slightly better than 1:1, and rather sub-par postseason career numbers.

Bledsoe is a class act as a person, particularly among pro football players, but he's not a Hall of Famer on the basis of on-field performance.

edit...check that. upon further review, archie had shitty numbers.

Certainly, I would expect Bledsoe to have better numbers than Archie Manning. The rules today favor the passing game much moreso than they did when Archie played.

[Terry in Crapchester]

Bledsoe is a class act as a person, particularly among pro football players, but he's not a Hall of Famer on the basis of on-field performance.

He isn't done yet.

Of course, not, and my analysis earlier is based on what he has done to date. Having said that, he's now 34 years old, and a relatively high-mileage 34 at that (178 career starts), so it becomes a little less likely that he'll upgrade his career stats significantly. Truth be told, although I can't root for Dallas, I always thought he got a raw deal in Buffalo, and I'd like to see him do well for that reason.

His best shot at the HOF would be to win a Super Bowl, imho.

[BSmack]

Also, the only season he was on a Super Bowl winner, he was injured relatively early on, and never regained the starting QB position.

Of course were it not for Bledsoe's play in the AFC Championship game, the Pats would have never made the Super Bowl.

Fucker

[DallasFanatic]

Also, the only season he was on a Super Bowl winner, he was injured relatively early on, and never regained the starting QB position.

Of course were it not for Bledsoe's play in the AFC Championship game, the Pats would have never made the Super Bowl.

Fucker

Ahhhhhh....now I see where the bitterness comes from.