Poker sites. can you REALLY win?

[Moby Dick]

i havent played online in a while..so i figured i'd check out a few of the sites and see if any decent tournies were going on late-night.

i spot one on Ultimatebet..1000$guarantee , 25$ buy in.

was about 1am when i saw it...started at 1:30 and only ONE person was signed upf or it...so i figured what the hell...1000 guaranteed and , including me 2 people with half an hour to go. i liked my odds...

at about 1:20 there were only 4 of us signed up with , at that time 3 spots paying out....still feeling good about making some cash...

1:25 about 10 folks come in ...and then at 1:28 25 poepel sign up for the tourney all of a sudden....

WTF??? it balloned from about 15 to close to 45 in a matter of 2 seconds...kinda pissed me off...but anyhow i was pretty confident i could still make the final table (which at that time 8 places then paid out).


first hand i get pocket 9s..someone raises it to 200...so of course i fold...woudlnt have gotten anyhelp anyhow...

for about the next 13 hands in a row i get shit like 6,2 10,4 and once ina while an A,5 or a Q,8...none of which i ever played cause of the bets before it got to me...

i get pocket Qs so i figure i'd raise 200..i get 3 poeple to call..flop is 3,4,8....raised 400 (by raising i went down to about 1000 chips) got 2 peple to fold and one called....10 was 4th street..i bet 400 again...dude calls....Ace on river...i check, he checks....and what do you know...fucker has Ace-3.

i was pretty pissed ...tho i know there are ALOT of poeple that'll stay in just cause of an ace...basically shrugged it off and still felt i had a good shot if i played tight...

once again about 5 more hands in a row i get shit hands like 6,3 or 8,5.... until i get 77..i raise to 200 (400 chips left) i get one to call...flop 4,5,6......so i go all in.

dude calls with J,4.....jack on the river to put my ass out of the fucking tourny.



WHAT THE FUCK.

i think this is the end of me playing online.
sticking to the casinos from now on..

i thought it was kinda fishy all the people getting into the 1000$ guarantee tourny at the LAST second..but when shit liek that happens....who's to say the site you're playing on is being honest? (oxymoron?)



GG ultimate bet.

[Dinsdale]

until i get 77..i raise to 200 (400 chips left) i get one to call...flop 4,5,6......so i go all in.

I'm not tring to be a dick, but...


You pulled a complete DONK move, and it's somehow UB's fault you lost?


Every online site I've ever dealt with has the dealio where everyone waits until the last second to register...even moreso if it's a guaranteed payout tourney.




You know how certain people/groups of players have certain names for certain hands? You know, like some people call A Q "big bitch," and Q Q is "dykes"?

Well, in certain circles, there's a name for 7 7...



They call that a "losing hand."

[Moby Dick]

until i get 77..i raise to 200 (400 chips left) i get one to call...flop 4,5,6......so i go all in.

I'm not tring to be a dick, but...


You pulled a complete DONK move, and it's somehow UB's fault you lost?


Every online site I've ever dealt with has the dealio where everyone waits until the last second to register...even moreso if it's a guaranteed payout tourney.




You know how certain people/groups of players have certain names for certain hands? You know, like some people call A Q "big bitch," and Q Q is "dykes"?

Well, in certain circles, there's a name for 7 7...



They call that a "losing hand."

well..me being in 48th place outta 52 when i only had 600 chips left...i get pocket 7s...why WOULDNT i play it?

maybe i should have just gone all in pre-flop?

i had enough chips for 2 more BBs.

[Mook]

The answer to your original question is YES.

[Dinsdale]

The answer to your original question is YES.

Your thoughts, Eaglebauer?

[Eaglebauer]

The answer to your original question is YES.

Your thoughts, Eaglebauer?

[chico escuela]"UB been very, very good to me."[/chico escuela]

$10,000 Aruba package and all.

Of course last night I played in a 220 person, $100 buy-in there. Down to 60 people left, top 30 cash. Stack is kind of low but I pick up KK and get all-in with 77. 7 hits on the turn. Doh.

That's variance for ya.

[Eaglebauer]

i get pocket Qs so i figure i'd raise 200..i get 3 poeple to call..flop is 3,4,8....raised 400 (by raising i went down to about 1000 chips) got 2 peple to fold and one called....10 was 4th street..i bet 400 again...dude calls....Ace on river...i check, he checks....and what do you know...fucker has Ace-3.

i was pretty pissed ...tho i know there are ALOT of poeple that'll stay in just cause of an ace...basically shrugged it off and still felt i had a good shot if i played tight...

once again about 5 more hands in a row i get shit hands like 6,3 or 8,5.... until i get 77..i raise to 200 (400 chips left) i get one to call...flop 4,5,6......so i go all in.
.

Depending on what the blinds were, you probably should've just went all-in preflop on both these hands. Second hand for sure, with only 600 chips. You should be happy to take the blinds and maybe get lucky and double up. You're a favorite against any non-paired hand.

First hand you should have been all-in on the flop with at least 700 in the pot and 1,000 chips behind. Dipshit Ace-Rags probably won't hang around then, and if they do they're handing you chips most of the time and bad beating you just occasionally.

To win you must be prepared to die.

[Dinsdale]

Second hand for sure, with only 600 chips. You should be happy to take the blinds and maybe get lucky and double up. You're a favorite against any non-paired hand.

Don't have the odds calculator handy(but I'll bet someone does, and will prove me wrong), but I believe his 7 7 was about a 50/50 against any two higher cards...less for suited connectors and whatnot.

First hand you should have been all-in on the flop with at least 700 in the pot and 1,000 chips behind.

I think we've actually discussed q q before on here.

Such a tough, tough hand.

A K is going to beat you half the time...but what are you going to do...let Q Q go by without trying to move with them?

For myself...depending on my mood and whether I'm "feelin it" -- with Q Q, I'll either limp in, or toss them all...nothing in-between.

If I'm out of position, I'll often just go for broke and push them(depending on stack size, to an extent). Hopefully, I just get to keep the blinds.

If I'm in good position, I'll limp...then overs and opponent reads determine my next moves. No overs, no more than two of a straight or flush...I'll bet the pot, or more. Two overs, or too many straight/flush outs...


Buh-bye. Live to fight another day.

Tough, tough hand to play, those queens. I've found I'm more successful if I can get past the psychological block that most of us have with folding queens. Very hard hand to let go of, but it's often for the best.

To win you must be prepared to die.

Sweeeeet.



Good luck in Aruba. We're all counting on you.

[buckeye_in_sc]

I am done with online for a while...

Sunday Full Tilt $5 + $.50 SNG...

I am in about 3rd chip position with about 1800 in chips and 5 left out of 6 when I get dealt 44 and it is checked around to me in the BB (blinds were 20/40)...I check and the flop comes...A (red)/4(red)/K (spade)...check, check, guy bets 120 in front of me...of course I flop a set and am ready to bust anyone with AK, AQ, etc...I re-raise to $760...he then re-raises me all in...I call he turns over A/4 (which his Ace being a spade)...the third card on the flop is the K of spades, turn spade, river spade and SC is done to runner, runner, runner spade after flopping a set...

i just am done with online for a while...I think I have gotten burned out...i am playing live more in the neighborhood and have begun to concentrate more on my live game and reading hands...in fact Friday and Saturday I played and had the best nights reading hands I ever had...it's just too bad in a couple of those spots I was on short stack had to push and had someone outflop me...one instance i had 66 on a short stack...pushed all in got a caller and told him AQ? to which he says yes...i am about 53/47 here...queen hits the door but I pick up a back door straight draw with a 5 and 7 along with the queen...8 on the turn so now I am open ended as well...but alas the river is a brick...so I felt good just got outflopped...

i think in order to be successful online you have to play the higher limit ring games and tourneys just my opinion though...

good discussion let's keep it going and I am by no means crying or what not just saying I am taking a break and am burned out a little...

[Eaglebauer]

Good luck in Aruba. We're all counting on you.

Thank you, brother. You know I'm going to try my best.... I need that million dollar first prize so I can quit my job. :o

Don't have the odds calculator handy(but I'll bet someone does, and will prove me wrong), but I believe his 7 7 was about a 50/50 against any two higher cards...less for suited connectors and whatnot.

Yeah, 77 is about 55% against AKo. About 52% against AKs. Even 22 is about 53% against AKo.

Basically, shortstacked I'm pushing with any pocket-pair in any un-raised pot. Although it can be viewed as a "coin-flip", you at least do have a slight edge... plus you gain "first-in vigorish"-- always have the chance everyone will fold. When blinds are high relative to stacks, this is a good thing. But if someone calls you with AK, all the better, cause that's about as good a chance you can ask for to double-up when you only have enough chips left for 2 more orbits (actually, I will play this strategy as soon as I fall below 10 orbits worth of blinds/antes). You don't have the luxury of waiting to flop a monster anymore. Plus, if you do get called and double-up, you'll now have much more ammo to take advantage of the opportunity when you eventually do flop that monster.

[Eaglebauer]

I am done with online for a while...

Sunday Full Tilt $5 + $.50 SNG...

I am in about 3rd chip position with about 1800 in chips and 5 left out of 6 when I get dealt 44 and it is checked around to me in the BB (blinds were 20/40)...I check and the flop comes...A (red)/4(red)/K (spade)...check, check, guy bets 120 in front of me...of course I flop a set and am ready to bust anyone with AK, AQ, etc...I re-raise to $760...he then re-raises me all in...I call he turns over A/4 (which his Ace being a spade)...the third card on the flop is the K of spades, turn spade, river spade and SC is done to runner, runner, runner spade after flopping a set...

Losing monster hands to one-card runner-runner flushes is about the most infuriating thing there is.

[buckeye_in_sc]

^^^^^^^^rack

[Dinsdale]

good discussion let's keep it going and I am by no means crying or what not just saying I am taking a break and am burned out a little...

Well, actually, you are crying a little...but anyone who doesn't at least cry...more likely yell and scream and beat up his monitor after taking what's essentially a bad beat isn't human.

I whine like a bitch when I get runned-out like that...even if I'm the only person around.


But, therein lies the difference in the online game...while it's easy to push them chips around in a freeroll(large freerolls are luck AND skill dependent), it's not always so wise in a money game.

And there's the catch -- not everybody knows this.

I've found I've had the most success(not that I ever play for more than a couple of bucks online), by doing the "unspeakable" of competitive games...playing not to lose.

OK, I'll qualify that...I play to "not lose" early in the game. Unless I'm nutty, I won't bet my wad.

You're all-in? Cool, enjoy that pot.

The reason I play this way(except in freerolls), is you avoid, to an extent, the "online-donk-suckout-factor" that can be so prevalent online, particularly early-on in low-dough games. While I'll call most extreme-donkishness in a freeroll, it's just not worth the odds when I'm trying to cash a money game.

Basically, what I'm saying (pooorly, might I add), is that if you call five hands, even though your odds are 80%, if you do it enough times, that 20% is going to hit and send you packing(if that makes sense?).

If you keep it low-key early, and swallow your math and your pride early in the game, I feel you have less of a chance at a stupid bad beat, for two reasons --

- Because chances are somebody will eventually knock out the donk. Let the other players do your light work, and collect the chips from them when the opportunity presents.

- Because you've had a chance to watch the donks and the skilled players in action, and hopefully can tune your game a little bit accordingly.


I'm not stating this as fact. I'm just saying, that for myself, that since I've taken this attitude, I'm taking a lot less bad beats/nasty suckout/donk victimization.

I think erring on the side of caution is very important at 6-10 player S-n-G's. Mistakes KILL in a small S-n-G.

[Adelpiero]

online is tough


i'm ready to crack the losers in chicago this weekend. saturday is arlington million day, and sat night i hit their poker rooms.

i played agaisnt some illinois wankers in vegas, they love to play crap hands and try to draw out, you have to bet your hands, and only trap with the nutz. i got caught trying to trap, guy had 95 off and board turned a set for him. etc

[Eaglebauer]

Just to clarify, my comments are mainly in regards to Multi-Table Tournaments, which is where I have most of my experience.

One table sit n go's are an entirely different creature. As are cash games.

But of course, when you're short stacked in either an MTT or a SnG, they don't play that differently.

[Adelpiero]

playing in a 5$ multitable tourney.

AJ4 rainbow flop. i bet out 400, guy goes allin. i hesitate, thinking a set, i call:

he has a7 off

i have ak off. he rivers a 7 then gets cocky

[buckeye_in_sc]

^^^^^^^^^^^

That is where it gets stupid...getting cocky...um ok...A/7 off huh...that is what happened when the online boom hit...many more chasers live and online (from what the "pros" have said)...

I have had moderate success with the medium to bigger buy in MTT's...in fact in the last 5 Full Tilt MTT's I bought into

$10 + 1 Speed (finished 14th - $35)
$10 + 1 Speed (no cash)
$10 + 1 Regular - finished 4th ($276 - and had 88 vs A/10 in a major pot about $80K and the guy turned a 10 to beat me)
$50 + 5 out early when my AK ran into pocket 4's
$24 + 2 Regular (21st - $51 - was getting severly short stacked and should have pushed earlier with a 10/J off would have rivered a straight to triple up but started to get blinded off and was in the BB with 10/2 and decided to push and got one caller with A/Q...sure donk move but I only had like 2 BB's left so oh well)...

so in the MTT's I have had more success lately than SNG's or cash tables...maybe that's would I should play then??? who knows...

[Mook]

so in the MTT's I have had more success lately than SNG's or cash tables...maybe that's would I should play then??? who knows...

I think you've answered your own question.

The biggest key to success is determining the game type and level you have success at and stick with it. It's different for everyone. Good luck in the MTT's!

[See You Next Wednesday]

I can handle folks sucking out, winning from behind, etc. I don't even get upset when I lose to a donk move. I just take that as part of playing in online, and figure evenutally I will take their money (although I am not above making a stupid play every once in a while, we all have done it).

What really gets me going is when somebody decides they need to talk trash after winning with crap play. My favorite, "I was feeling it". Or, "That's why they call it gambling."

I don't know why, but I am writing a poker blog. I have no special insights or talents. I am not a particularly gifted writer, but I figured, what the hell, it is kind of cathartic.

But you can read about how I played a 124 hands heads-up in a 9 player SnG, where my AA was busted by 92o on hand 115. Good times.

[buckeye_in_sc]

^^^^^^^^

nice blog and a good read...


played Saturday morning (just after midnight) a party ends and we head to a neighbors house to play a cash game...we play $.50/$1 NLH...first hand at an 8 person table...i am BB which is $1 (we play basically 1 SB, 2 BB) hence the $.50/$1 (yeah I know I didn't have to explain it in that great of detail)...so it goes fold, fold, to an older gentleman (who we love having in the game because he is an ATM)...he calls the BB, then fold, fold, fold, whatever to the SB (an aggressive player who plays a lot of pocket pairs aggressively and hands like AK - AJ almost too aggressively)...so he makes a standard 2X BB raise for these stakes...I look down (i haven't looked at my cards yet to follow the action)...and see SIGFRUIT and ROY (yes QQ)...i re-reaise him to 14 total chips or $7 (since each chip is worth $.50)...the older gentleman folds...it comes back around to the SB he goes into the tank and I am thinking AK, JJ, 1010 or perhaps AQ...KK or AA really didn't factor at this moment just because of the way he normally plays...well he re-reaises me all in (mind you first hand), and i INSTA CALL...as soon as I said call i knew I was in trouble...he flips AA and of course nothing higher than a 10 hits the board...oh well...i was tired, long day and I thought I had it read right but alas I didn't...quick $20 down the drain...some would say I should have laid it down when he re-raised but honestly how many times have you gotten away from QQ??? Had I been holding 10 10 or JJ probably could have thought a sec...

anyway any thoughts on how you guys would have played the hand?

[Dinsdale]

anyway any thoughts on how you guys would have played the hand?

Well, you know...hindsight is always 20/20.


But, that said...first hand of the night...some dude donking hard...


I'm guessing if it was me in your shoes, on that hand...

I probably would have got my ass handed to me on a platter.

That's probably how I would have played it.

Did I mention what a great hand Q Q is?


...for separating you from your money.

[buckeye_in_sc]

two things...

1) Thanks Dins always count on you for the wonderful insights...I guess I didn't think of my ass on a platter but hey it is what it is...I like the QQ separating you from your money hand...only 2 hands are dominating you pre-flop but like JJ this hand can go horribly wrong...I should never play a hand named after to homos...good lord...

2) Yes the blog is awesome...i loved the 7/2 entry as well and your description of the PokerStars SnG...good stuff...

i to second a link to T1B...

[Eaglebauer]

Dins-- Sorry, but you need to quit flapping your gums about QQ. It's the 3rd or 4th best possible starting hand in all of Hold Em.

Sure we'd all like to sit around and play nothing but AA but then there's no game anymore.

Even AA is good at separating your from your money if you can't learn when to lay it down.

[See You Next Wednesday]

two things...

1) Thanks Dins always count on you for the wonderful insights...I guess I didn't think of my ass on a platter but hey it is what it is...I like the QQ separating you from your money hand...only 2 hands are dominating you pre-flop but like JJ this hand can go horribly wrong...I should never play a hand named after to homos...good lord...

2) Yes the blog is awesome...i loved the 7/2 entry as well and your description of the PokerStars SnG...good stuff...

i to second a link to T1B...

Thanks for the kudos everybody. I dutifully added a link to this particular forum and added a new post about a very interesting hand of Omaha H/L I was involved in.

[Dinsdale]

Dins-- Sorry, but you need to quit flapping your gums about QQ. It's the 3rd or 4th best possible starting hand in all of Hold Em.

Kinda fits with my point(which I may not have made very well).


Being the 4th best starting hand is what makes it tough. It tends to bring about an air of false confidence(or at least among many players).

Jacks? I'll lay them down in the blink of an eye.


10's? Sheee...hard to even check that shit down with a straight face.

9's? What are 9's? Isn't that what donks throw their stack at?


But...Queens. Solid, solid down cards. Way too easy to get way too many chips in with QQ. If you're ahead post-flop, it's easy to start getting stupid with them. I believe it's important to either slam everybody off the pot early, or limp the hell out of them until you're ahead after the river...I guess.


I just think QQ is one of the toughest hands to play. You know some jackass is chasing an A or K(if blinds are cheap), and if it comes on the last card...ouch. You're prone to bluffers more at that point too-imo.


I dunno...for me, it's hard to lay down QQ or KK, unless the beating I'm about to take is obvious. It's just that one hand(for me) that blurs the judgement. I don't know why. And I know it's not just me -- seems like I watch a lot of other players...good ones, even...lose more than they should have with QQ.

[Mook]

I agree that QQ can be tough and definitely tough to get away from. I tend to play them pretty hard before the flop thus giving me a relatively decent read on what the one or two people left might be holding. After that it depends on the board and the players I'm playing with. It's kind of a funny hand, I've laid it down pre-flop on quite a few occassions and didn't really worry about it.......I've also been stacked with this hand when any reasonable freakin' donk would have folded after the flop.

It does depend on the table but I do think QQ can be difficult to play, especially after the flop.