So, you want to get teacher certification in NY?

[Mike the Lab Rat]

Just jumped through the final hurdle for my permanent NYS teacher certification - a "pass" grade on the 30-minute video of myself teaching a class.

My wife and I sat down to figure out how much the whole job switch to teaching cost us:

LAST (Liberal Arts & Sciences Test) :
(this is a general knowledge test, taken over 3 hours): $88

ATS-W (Assessment of Teaching Skills - Written)
(this is a written, 3-hour long, comprehensive test of education theory and practice): $88

Content Speciality Test (CST):
(a 3-hour, written, comprehensive test of material within your certification area): $88

ATS-P (Assessment of Teaching Skills - Performance)
(this is a 30-minute videotape of yourself teaching a class, which is sent off to a panel of teachers who grade your content mastery and techniques): $145

Fingerprinting: $99
Provisional (initial) Certification fee : $100
Permanent Certification fee: $100 x 2 (I have two content areas I teach - bio & general science, so I need a certificate for each one)

So, a total of $808 in NYS fees,

This is in addition to tuition for mandatory Master's degree, books, and the loss of income during mandatory full-time 10 weeks of student teaching.

When I decide to pick up the certificate for teaching chemistry, I'll have to pay another $188 ($88 for that CST plus another $100 for the chem certificate).

Personally, I don't have a problem with most of this, since I knew the costs prior to switching careers. A lot of undergrads, however, don't research this stuff and get "sticker shock."

I also slapped this up there to educate the occasional numbnut who makes a drive-by comment on how "easy" it is to become a teacher. Not in New-York-frigging-State it isn't. And now they've shitcanned permanent certification for newbie teachers in favor of "professional certificates" which will require them to accrue 135 hours (clock time) of professional development every five years or they lose certification. It's not a bad idea, but you know damned well that the taxpayer will wind up footing the bill one way or the other. That sucks.

Despite the costs to get in and the pay cut I took to switch, I gotta say that I don't regret a minute of it, even if some (rare) days are an absolute migraine-inducing nightmare. Teachers who don't feel the same way should frigging STFU and go flip burgers.

[Mister Bushice]

So what exactly are the pluses for going to all that trouble?

[Mike the Lab Rat]

So what exactly are the pluses for going to all that trouble?

Well, there is the whole "really digging what I do" aspect, but my own personal "upgrades" from my career switch include:

- better (i.e., more family friendly) hours. My old job at the U of R became 40 hours plus "on call" time, thanks to state reg's that require HIV viral load results in some circumstances (accident, childbirth) to be given to physicians w/in 8 hours of blood draw.

- more stability. Part of my old job was clinical (the viral load testing) and part was research (HIV genotyping). The latter aspect of my job depended upon NIH funding, which needed rebewal every three years. My boss was a raving bitch when grant renewal time came up, since we were competing against dozens of other sites. We honestly didn't know if any of us would have full-time jobs every three years, since it all depended on bean-counters in DC and Bethesda as well as political crap.

- safety. In my current district, a bad day means a headache. In my old job, a bad day might mean exposure to highly-concentrated HIV.

- recognition. In 11 frigging years at the U of R, I was treated like a pawn. No recognition at all for going above expectations. It was an intellectual plantation, with throughput of data and gaining $$$ as the only goals, with someone else gaining the publicity most of the time. I just loved being treated like crap by people with half my education. In my current position, the kids, their parents, school board members, my bosses & colleagues have all given me support, recognition, etc.

I have a passion for science and I love getting the kids to also love at least some aspects of science. Teaching allows me to share that passion.

Does the paperwork suck? Yep. Does dealing with mandates from clueless fucks in Albany and Washington suck? Big time. Are the kids/parents/other assorted humans pains in my ass sometimes? Yeah, but that's true of any job.

I can't speak for other teachers, but I know it was worth it for me.

[Cuda]

So what exactly are the pluses for going to all that trouble?

Sex with Students.

How obvious does the motivation have to be why any adult would choose a career that has him surrounded by adolescents for several hours a day? Certainly not for the intellectual stimulation

[Luther]

Speaking of teaching, when do you go back to educating our youth, LabRat? Sure, tease us with some great posts during the summer and now slink back to school. Maybe post once a month until June.

We'll be left only with mvscal to beat down all the government conspiracies, all the Marty hating the Zionists talk etc. Is this how it's going to be? Is it?

Rip City
:wince:

[Mike the Lab Rat]

My first day back is the day after Labor Day, a wonderful day of "in-service:" a general teacher assembly welcoming us back and then going into - introduction of new staff, changes in policies and procedures, new attendance software, yadda-yadda. Then we get small-group tutorials on the aforementioned new software, break into grade-level or subject area groups for whatever crap we have to discuss in those areas. The we are given lunch and the rest of the day to pull supplies, posters, etc. out of mothballs and get our rooms ready for the kiddies coming in the next day.

I'll try to keep posting every now and again during the week, after work, if a subject moves me. I absolutely refuse to post from school. Never gonna happen. I'll also post on weekends.

I'm sure that even in my return to work, that there'll be enough folks of entertaining and educational value to keep you happy, Luth.

[Mister Bushice]

So what exactly are the pluses for going to all that trouble?

Well, there is the whole "really digging what I do" aspect, but my own personal "upgrades" from my career switch include:

- better (i.e., more family friendly) hours. My old job at the U of R became 40 hours plus "on call" time, thanks to state reg's that require HIV viral load results in some circumstances (accident, childbirth) to be given to physicians w/in 8 hours of blood draw.

- more stability. Part of my old job was clinical (the viral load testing) and part was research (HIV genotyping). The latter aspect of my job depended upon NIH funding, which needed rebewal every three years. My boss was a raving bitch when grant renewal time came up, since we were competing against dozens of other sites. We honestly didn't know if any of us would have full-time jobs every three years, since it all depended on bean-counters in DC and Bethesda as well as political crap.

- safety. In my current district, a bad day means a headache. In my old job, a bad day might mean exposure to highly-concentrated HIV.

- recognition. In 11 frigging years at the U of R, I was treated like a pawn. No recognition at all for going above expectations. It was an intellectual plantation, with throughput of data and gaining $$$ as the only goals, with someone else gaining the publicity most of the time. I just loved being treated like crap by people with half my education. In my current position, the kids, their parents, school board members, my bosses & colleagues have all given me support, recognition, etc.

I have a passion for science and I love getting the kids to also love at least some aspects of science. Teaching allows me to share that passion.

Does the paperwork suck? Yep. Does dealing with mandates from clueless fucks in Albany and Washington suck? Big time. Are the kids/parents/other assorted humans pains in my ass sometimes? Yeah, but that's true of any job.

I can't speak for other teachers, but I know it was worth it for me.

I pretty much know why you do it, and understand from your personal experiences why it is an improvement, but really, given all that crap you have to go through what would make anyone wanting to make a decent wage go that route? It most Certainly would not get you a house out here in cali, and in some cases not even a living wage. It seems to me that if the school system wanted to have intelligent, well educated people working in it they wouldn't set up so many barriers to get there.

I made a conscious decision NOT to go into teaching because of all the people I've known who did and not only struggle to get by but constantly bitch about their jobs (paperwork, politics, parents, shitty unmotivated students, etc. ) No thanks.

[Mike the Lab Rat]

but really, given all that crap you have to go through what would make anyone wanting to make a decent wage go that route? It most Certainly would not get you a house out here in cali, and in some cases not even a living wage.

Part of the reason a lot of college kids get into teaching is that colleges and the media are outright lying to them about the scope of the alleged teacher shortage and making idiotic claims based on that alleged shortage. Kids in teacher education programs are being told that there is a critical shortage of teachers across disciplines and across the nation and that they'll be able to run the table when asking for wages and benefits. There is actually a shortage of SOME subjects in SOME areas of the country (and many of those areas are poor).

The kids don't know that they're being lied to until it's too late.

Some kids get into teaching because one or both parents are teachers. Those kids know what they're getting into and have no excuses.

It seems to me that if the school system wanted to have intelligent, well educated people working in it they wouldn't set up so many barriers to get there.

I have no problem with making the candidates thoroughly know their content area. Hell, if I were "King of the World," prospective high school teachers would have to have a Master's degree in the subject they teach in addition to a Master's in teaching.

What is unconscionable is the seemingly endless series of fees that the government charges for each piddling step. The state is not honestly adding these steps for any other reason than to generate more income - New York is infamous for its mountain of licensing/certification fees for professional & skilled trades.

Some districts are well-off (or desperate) enough to reimburse their new teachers for credit hours earned and fees paid. That's great for the teachers, but once again, a lousy deal for taxpayers, who will ultimately foot the bill.

I made a conscious decision NOT to go into teaching because of all the people I've known who did and not only struggle to get by but constantly bitch about their jobs (paperwork, politics, parents, shitty unmotivated students, etc. ) No thanks.

Very few teachers are destitute. People who make a career of teaching usually wind up firmly middle class. It has pretty much always been that way, so IMNSHO, any teacher who bitches about how little they make has very little legitimate basis from which to complain. No one forced them to stay in teaching. It's OK for teachers to say they want more $$$ (same goes for ANY job...), but to act like they didn't know that teachers don't get rich is disingenuous.

You made an educated choice that worked for you. I made one that worked for me (teaching a subject that is required for high school graduation in NYS also gives me security). I have little patience for the lifelong teachers who don't have a grip on how the "real world" works and who bitch about their perqs as if they're God-given rights.

[Terry in Crapchester]

What is unconscionable is the seemingly endless series of fees that the government charges for each piddling step. The state is not honestly adding these steps for any other reason than to generate more income - New York is infamous for its mountain of licensing/certification fees for professional & skilled trades.

Word.

I get quite a nice birthday present from New York every other year -- a $350 fee to renew my law license for two years. That's on top of the 24 CLE hours I need every two years (a very worthwhile requirement, imho, but the CLE courses aren't free -- not most of the time, anyway), the bar examination fee (I don't remember exactly how much that was, since I took it in 1994, but I'm sure it was in three digits anyway) and the tuition for the bar review course I took prior to taking the bar (over $1,000). Oh, and did I mention I also have to pay a fee to renew my notary commission?

[Mister Bushice]

Sorry Terry, but Lawyers don't get much sympathy, fee wise. :)

I have no problem with making the candidates thoroughly know their content area. Hell, if I were "King of the World," prospective high school teachers would have to have a Master's degree in the subject they teach in addition to a Master's in teaching.

What is unconscionable is the seemingly endless series of fees that the government charges for each piddling step. The state is not honestly adding these steps for any other reason than to generate more income - New York is infamous for its mountain of licensing/certification fees for professional & skilled trades.

I didn't mean the education end of it. I agree that teachers should know their content area. I was speaking specifically about the fees and certification hoops they have to jump through that have nothing to do with subject knowledge.

Very few teachers are destitute because they are second incomes in heir family. That is what it is out here, anyway. A high percentage of the teachers here are married females with husbands who make real money. The ones starting out who are single aren't living very far above the mendoza line.

[Mike the Lab Rat]

Basically, NYS makes a point of "nickel and diming" folks to death. If there's any way to break down a license/certification/application/registration into sub-parts, they'll do it and then get more money by charging for the newly broken-down version. Can't break it down into smaller chunks? Well, then, NYS will reduce the amount of time the license/certification/application/registration is good for, forcing you to renew it more often.

Hell, NY just abolished permanent certification for new teachers. They'll now get a "professional" certification that must be kept active by accruing 135 clock hours of professional development every five years (failure to do so results in loss of certification). Ostensibly, the idea is to keep teachers up to speed in techniques, pedagogy, etc., but the REAL reason for it is to continually generate income for the "beast" (since the professional development programs ultimately get approval and fees from....NYS).

What really sucks about the whole thing is that it builds resentment within the profession. More and more people agree with you, Bushice, and basically say "screw it."

It won't get better until so many prospective teachers jump ship that a real (and not manufactured) crisis develops. Districts won't be bending over backwards to raise salaries, give signing bonuses, etc. because their hands are tied by the voters - who, for all their vocal support of more money for schools and teachers, backpedal when they realize that more $$$ for schools means a bigger tax bite. The realistic option to make teaching more attractive would be to ease the government fees for teachers.