It's easy, just pull yourself up by your bootstraps

[Bizzarofelice]

but the taxpayers footed the bill for it.

So fucking what?

Game and match. Thanks for the sparring.

[PSUFAN]

Are you saying this school couldn't have just decided to grow a fukking garden on it's own?

What you're not understanding is that the actual assistance given was utterly minimal. It hardly matters particularly that it was a gardening project that they undertook...the point is that these kids were/are afforded an opportunity to go through the learning process in a way that really drew them in.

On the one hand, we have folks demanding change and better results from our educational system. Then, when something innovative...and successful is undertaken, some of the same folks have nothing but derision.

To KCTRL-Paul a Hannityism...it's as if they want this to fail.

[RadioFan]

Explain exactly how you would have them "rise above their condition" without some kind of help,

You start by taking responsibility for children. You teach them the value of education. You work with them at home. You instill a work ethic in them. If you can do these simple things, you will have prepared you child to succeed in this country. There is no government program that can or ever will do this for you.

People who do nothing for themselves but wait around for the government to come riding to their rescue like those Katrina assholes a year later simply aren't worth saving. They are nothing more than human shit.

Sink or swim. It's your responsibility not the government's. I really don't expect hand wringing pussies like you to ever understand and don't really care. Idiots like you are the problem not the solution.

Actually, I agree with everything you typed, save your idiotic assumption in bold, since I'm the one who asked and you're the one who made an incorrect assumption.

I never said it was the "government's responsibilty" to instill anything in anybody. I asked what options are available for bettering yourself and how it could be done without at least a little help from the government or a relative.

Most of us on this board have had to work our fucking asses of for what we have today and everybody here, including you, has had some kind of help at some point.

PSU is right, some of you simply want others to fail, especially if they're not following your particular formula for getting ahead.

Btw, I've never taken one cent from taxpayers via loans or any other form of assistance, unlike you. So you can take your assumption and stick it up your ass.

[Y2K]

All arguments aside
I think that schools districts that ran away from vocational education has hurt our country for quite some time now.
Illegals have as much hands on experience as most graduating seniors from way to many schools. People who want to acheive
can do so in so many ways and not offering basics in workshop and assembly work in Jr and High School is fucking totally stupid.
sad really.......

[PSUFAN]

As the son of a professor of vocational ed, I must agree heartily.

Voc Eds were and often still are stigmatized. You mention basics in wood and assembly...many schools still require those, but what they don't have are actual in-depth vocational training in high school. That was available in my district growing up, but it was not a realistic option.

[smackaholic]

Are you saying this school couldn't have just decided to grow a fukking garden on it's own?

What you're not understanding is that the actual assistance given was utterly minimal. It hardly matters particularly that it was a gardening project that they undertook...the point is that these kids were/are afforded an opportunity to go through the learning process in a way that really drew them in.

On the one hand, we have folks demanding change and better results from our educational system. Then, when something innovative...and successful is undertaken, some of the same folks have nothing but derision.

To KCTRL-Paul a Hannityism...it's as if they want this to fail.

whatyou're not understanding is that the fukking school, all by it's fukking self could have carried out that program. It didn't require some over fukking paid school "advisor" to think it up and lobby the gubmint for a grant to do it. Or, atleast it shouldn't have.

[Terry in Crapchester]

but the taxpayers footed the bill for it.

So fucking what?

The GED strikes again. That was my entire fucking point, if you were paying attention.

Evidently you also are too fucking stupid to comprehend the difference between compensation for services rendered and a handout.

No, it's you who are too stupid, or ideologically bound, to recognize that most of us need some type of help from the government to get a college education. In fact, what you suggested would fall into that category.

[Atomic Punk]

All arguments aside
I think that schools districts that ran away from vocational education has hurt our country for quite some time now.
Illegals have as much [or] more[/b] hands on experience as most graduating seniors from way to many schools. People who want to acheive
can do so in so many ways and not offering basics in workshop and assembly work in Jr and High School is fucking totally stupid.
sad really.......

Most kids for a few decades have had it pretty easy and don't know what they want to do in life. If anyone, especially kids aren't motivated or driven, they will fuck off and be lazy since someone or some entity will take care of them.

I talk to a few construction guys around here and even back in NJ. The said with basic skills in construction, you can make pretty damn good money depending on the learned skill. I see illegals or basic construction guy cashing weekly paychecks at my local liquor store and it's at least 3 times as much as your burger flippers working minimum wage. Two fellow classmates in this journey to the nursing field (one big fat guy that is a manager at Carl's Jr/Hardees, and this girl who is a manager at McDonalds) both tell me they make in the upper $7/hr range... as a manager!

These fucking ard working Mexicans that cash out are kicking their asses. The only Voc Ed stuff I see out here is technology related and it's not like there are billions of people in New Dehli going to work for much less in US dollars right?

I've been working for this one company for over a year (they transfered me back home so I could go back to school) and it's a fun job. I'm around people of all ages so it's cool to get all kinds of perspectives. Most young people don't know what they want to do so they are driven. I've seen it in my own classes I just finished. Amazing how many failed the classes due to not showing up or not studying.

So the bottom line is this... one has to be driven whether its instrinsical or extrinsical to achieve goals. I think government programs are designed for those that are motivated for their own success. However, as we've seen in society, many want a free meal ticket and that's the difference between Terry and mvscal's viewpoints.