Since the bill of rights has already been stomped on

[Dr_Phibes]

Oh I don't know - what part of internationally accepted terms of war conduct for over 5 decades are you failing to get?

Accepted by whom? Certainly not the Koreans and Chinese in the Korean War. Damn sure not by the North Vietnamese in the Vietnam War or the Iraqis in Desert Storm.

You might have noticed that hezbollah and israel followed it.

This is the kind of moronic statement that gets you rightly blasted as a completely clueless dumbfuck.
Hezbollah observed the GC? Guess again, dipshit. Hostage taking is a war crime. Endangering civilians by locating military assets in civilian areas is a war crime.

So save your bullshit about Hezbollah observing the GC. You don't what the fuck you're talking about.

The North Vietnamese and North Korean postion was that as there was no formal declaration of war, the Geneva Convention did not apply to American troops - it was a terrorist attack (and this seems to annoy Americans to this day). The situation in the war on 'terror' is similar, I don't understand what all the fuss is about other than innocent people being pulled off the street - it's going to happen anyway.

And what you have accused Hezbollah of commiting was also commited by jews, there is no reason to be selective.

[Mister Bushice]

Since when has ANY enemy of the US actually complied with the Geneva Conventions, dumbass?

The Germans in WWII did with POWs, despite the fact the GC had not been ratified yet a form of it has been around since near the turn of the century. Didn't you watch Hogans heroes? ;)

Also, North Korea did although not very well in the beginning but they did try with Chinas help to improve the mortality rate caused by lack of food and medicine after the first year or so.

Same in Vietnam, although the NVA tried to dance around the GC, and there were torture camps but not all of them were that way.

The point here is that with the GC as it stands, more prisoners survived because there was a reason to keep them alive, a set of guidelines everyone knew existed and that they would be held accountable for after the war. It became a major negotiating point in both the Korean war and the Vietnam war.

You fuck with those rules, and they go away. That will not make things better in future conflicts.

Besides, the Senate bill handles the whole issue without violating the existing terms of the GC. All bush wants to do is get the green light to enable the use of thumbscrews and allow holes to be drilled in teeth.

He's so full of shit. He spews about how successful the CIA has been in getting info form prisoners, then says he needs these changes made in the way prisoners are handled in order to get info from them.

WTF? talk about double speak.

[Dr_Phibes]

If we descend to their level, then what will be left to make us "better" than them?

Sanctions? Then you can kill a million and a half people with nary a choped head or spot of blood in sight.

'Leftist' my arse - shut up, Mikey.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

If we descend to their level, then what will be left to make us "better" than them?

Sanctions? Then you can kill a million and a half people with nary a choped head or spot of blood in sight.

'Leftist' my arse - shut up, Mikey.

Whoah.

[Cuda]

Since when has ANY enemy of the US actually complied with the Geneva Conventions, dumbass?

The Germans in WWII did with POWs, despite the fact the GC had not been ratified yet a form of it has been around since near the turn of the century. Didn't you watch Hogans heroes? ;)

Above -- The bodies of 81 American soldiers from Battery B of the 285th Field Artillery Observation Battalion, killed by Waffen SS troops, Dec. 17, 1944, during the Battle of the Bulge near the Belgian town of Malmedy. (Photo credit: U.S. Army)

On the second day of the 'Battle of the Bulge,' a truck convoy of Battery B of the 285th Field Artillery Observation Battalion was intercepted southeast of Malmedy by a regiment of the 1st SS Panzer Division of the Leibstandarte-SS, under the command of 29 year old SS Lt. Col. Jochen Peiper. His troops had earned the nickname "Blowtorch Battalion" after burning their way across Russia and had also been responsible for slaughtering civilians in two separate villages.

Upon sighting the trucks, the Panzer tanks opened fire and destroyed the lead vehicles. This brought the convoy to a halt while the deadly accurate tank fire continued. The outgunned Americans abandoned their vehicles and surrendered.

The captured U.S. soldiers were herded into a nearby field. An SS tank commander then ordered an SS private to shoot into the prisoners, setting off a wild killing spree as the SS opened fire with machine guns and pistols on the unarmed, terrified POWs.

Survivors were killed by a pistol shot to the head, in some cases by English speaking SS who walked among the victims asking if anyone was injured or needed help. Those who responded were shot. A total of 81 Americans were killed in the single worst atrocity against U.S. troops during World War II in Europe.

KYOA, much?

[Cuda]

Is it ok if I continue to laugh like a motherfucker at the " North Korea & the NVA tried- AT FIRST- to comply with the Geneva Conventions" line?

[Mister Bushice]

during the Battle of the Bulge

There are always violations during a war, and during battles in a war. We've done it too. My Lai, anyone?

But again, if you take away the GC you take away all restrictions to it everywhere, and the consequences of that means we would go back to a time when NO prisoners were taken ALL were killed or tortured.

and misquoting me for your own vapid amusement is just as funny, btw.

and nice job on picking the exception to the rule. There were over 95,000 US POWs in german stalags. Prisoners from Great Britain and the U.S. were generally treated better by the Germans than the Germans' treated Soviet prisoners. When American or British were made to work, they were compensated, and British officers, as per their regulation, were not forced to work.

Without the GC, why would they bother?

[Cuda]

and nice job on picking the exception to the rule.

Tears, Jerry. Tears

[Mister Bushice]

Ease up, Cuda. It was only 81 guys. They were trying their best, OK?

--Mister Excuseice

^
That from a guy who has been touting the iraq war casualties as "insignificant"

hypocrite.

[Cuda]

Babshice, every time I think you couldn't be dumber, you prove me wrong. I give up

[Mister Bushice]

Because your limited intellect does not comprehend the reason for a document like the geneva convention to remain unaltered by any one country without approval by all parties involved you get a pass on this topic.

You aren't one who tries to see the logic in any subject, anyway. I swear most of the time you get into a discussion just to fling shit into the wind to see who it lands on.

[Cuda]

By no coincidence, Babshice, it always seems to land on you.

You say "unaltered", I say "ignored"

When I ask who, exactly, has ever adhered to the Geneva Conventions when it came to American prisoners, you tossed up 2 monkey-shit examples (North Korea & North Vietnam), and one easily disproved laugher (Germany).

Point is, dumbfuck, NOBODY has ever adhered to GC with American captives- which is a pretty good indication that nobody ever WILL adhere to the GC when it comes to American captives.

Even fucknuts-Phibes has a better grasp of the topic than you do.

[Mister Bushice]

When I ask who, exactly, has ever adhered to the Geneva Conventions when it came to American prisoners, you tossed up 2 monkey-shit examples (North Korea & North Vietnam), and one easily disproved laugher (Germany).

You bring up ONE WWII atrocity that represents LESS THAN .01 percent of the total number of POWs that were in the dozens of stalags where the GC WAS followed as an example of what the standard practice was in WWII?

Talk about monkey shit.

feel free to gloss over, as you usually do, any facts or information that doesn't suit your point and focus in on those that do.

and this just in - Bush has now opened the door for a compromise on this issue, because he now knows his point of view, like yours and mvscals, is complete and utter bullshit that won't get through congress.

[Mister Bushice]

No, I realize that the GC is not now nor has it ever been fully complied with. What you're saying is that it is entirely unnecessary because of that fact.
That is like saying that since so many people fail to follow posted speed limits that we shouldn't bother to have any.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

... we don't have a hope in hell of winning this fight ...

You're planning on beating "terrorism", huh?

While you're at it, could you also declare war on "bad vibes" and "the Monday blahs".

TIA.

[Mister Bushice]

The bottom line facts here are that we don't have a hope in hell of winning this fight without coercive interrogation techniques. If you're too squeamish for some of the more unpleasant realities we face, I suggest you change your station and shut the fuck up.

Not at all squeamish. But torturing people who are willing to strap on bombs and blow themselves to bits for the glory of becoming a martyr is a waste of time.

We'd be better off force feeding them pig meat for all the good thumbscrews would do.

[Cuda]

But torturing people who are willing to strap on bombs and blow themselves to bits for the glory of becoming a martyr is a waste of time.

Dumbfuck- a bomb is quick & irreversable and only takes momentary committment. A good waterboarding is very æffective at clearing the mind and rids it of all that high-school pep-rally bullshit their handlers feed them before sending them off to meet the virgins

We'd be better off force feeding them pig meat for all the good thumbscrews would do.

A blowtorch and a pair of pliers works better than both of those

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

We'd be better off force feeding them pig meat for all the good thumbscrews would do.

A blowtorch and a pair of pliers works better than both of those

Only mv can "do" mv, clowny.

Put daddy's tools down kid, and go play with your Legos.

[Cuda]

-50 for missing a blatant Pulp Fiction reset

-50 for fucking up the ubb code

You're on a roll

[titlover]

A blowtorch and a pair of pliers works better than both of those

Only mv can "do" mv, clowny.

Put daddy's tools down kid, and go play with your Legos.

So you're saying mvscal is your daddy?

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

So you're saying mvscal is your daddy?

You're some kind of retard, aren't you?

[Cuda]

He's just trying to communicate on your level

[titlover]

So you're saying mvscal is your daddy?

You're some kind of retard, aren't you?

D P D