Bolts - Duhs

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 10:30 pm

Once again the Chargers look like shit in the first half. Defense can't tackle and the offense can't do anything.
If not for the Raiders lameness and the long KO return they'd be behind 10-0 at least.

Maybe they can make the right adjustments at halftime again, but damn they can't keep pulling this crap every week. I don't think it will work so well after week 16.

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 10:37 pm

<------ Big Raiders fan right about now.

Go Duhs Go! LT held in check for 60 minutes is the goal.

I'm sure they'll find a way to implode in the 2nd half, though.

Shoalzie · Post by **Shoalzie** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 10:43 pm

At least they don't have to come from behind like previous weeks. I think they'll light it up in the second half. The Raiders have a decent defense but LT will get his before it's all said and done.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 10:47 pm

Oakland's been out-coached in the 2nd half on a pretty regular basis this season.

Tie game ..... ?

Looks to me like you've got 'em where you want 'em, Mikey.

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 11:04 pm

Touchdown Raiders!!!

drummer · Post by **drummer** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 11:57 pm

Does LT have more passing TD's than Walter this season?

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 12:03 am

It was a stupid mistake by Jackson, and maybe they *deserved* to lose the ball, but the call was absolutely correct.
Randy Cross should STFU and leave interpreting the rules to those who know WTF they're talking about. He really made himself look like a fool there.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 12:04 am

LT just improved his average per carry a little there.

godzilla2002 · Post by **godzilla2002** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 12:19 am

As much as I want the Raiders to win I'm laughing my ass off, only the Raiders can find and get screwed by fucked up rules that no one has ever seen called.

Cross Traffic · Post by **Cross Traffic** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 12:21 am

Pwned the Raiders yet again!

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 12:22 am

The league pulled another 'rule' out of it's ass this week ... ?

Oh ......

drummer · Post by **drummer** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 12:37 am

~edit~

I think the 49ers got hosed on a couple of calls today too. :? :?

Raydah James · Post by **Raydah James** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 12:43 am

godzilla2002 wrote:As much as I want the Raiders to win I'm laughing my ass off, only the Raiders can find and get screwed by fucked up rules that no one has ever seen called.

How's that fucking backlash taste, Al?

You know that daiper shitting old faggot took this one extremely hard. Anything that pushes that old sopping cunt closer to death is RACKable in my book.

In other news, Al's worthless ass cant fucking win in court anymore, either.

Beautiful. Enjoy the spoils of what you built, Alvis-no doubt every fucking opponent is.

The Assassin · Post by **The Assassin** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 1:22 am

Id just like to say that Aaron Brooks stinks. Thank you.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 5:49 am

James, your anger is misdirected, but ........ oh well.

The call was a total fuck-job.
Every so often the league's 'subtle' officiating fuckings of Oakland won't get the yob done, and a call such as this is slipped in to git'er done.

League lackey Mike Periera is out there spinning this play hard .... again.
Some sheep will nod their head yes.

NFL lackey says Jackson 'intentionally fumbled the ball forward.'

False.
What is the root word of intentional ... ?
Was it Jackson's intent to fumble the ball forward ... ?

Who the fuck do these league twats think they're talking to when they spin their theft ... ?

Mike Carey, Mike Periera, ...... eat fucking shit and die, punks.

It was a fumble, friends -- no fucking doubt about it.

"It was just one call, poptart, and Oakland should have overcome it."

Ok, fine.
If it's just one call then let's turn it around.
With Oakland up 14-7 and driving deep in SD territory, let's take away Jammer's INT.
It's just one play, after all.
Oakland either kicks a FG, or takes it in for a score.
17-7, or 21-7.
Sounds fair, eh ... ?

Oakland v. the other team is challenge enough, obviously.
Oakland v. the other team + the striped shirts ..... week in and week out ..... ?

Naaah, I expect it, but when a blatant hosing like this comes up .... again, it's about time to say bye bye to the NFL for this fan.

Shysters.

chargerfan · Post by **chargerfan** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:31 am

poptart wrote:it's about time to say bye bye to the NFL for this fan.

Shysters.

Not like the NFL is going to suffer from any economic impact from losing a fan of the Raiders but might drive up unemployment in the spiked shoulder pad/Darth Vader mask industry.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:58 am

They won't suffer any direct economic loss from losing me, true.
I haven't spent a dime on the NFL for at least 20 yrs.

That trend won't be changing.

You've got to have the mentality of a pro wrestling fan believah not to see the league for what it is.

Sincererly,

Troy Polamalu

drummer · Post by **drummer** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 7:17 am

The Refs are who you think they are.

Raydah James · Post by **Raydah James** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 8:01 am

poptart wrote:James, your anger is misdirected, but ........ oh well.

How the fuck is my anger misguided?

Did Alcula not build this team?

He didnt fucking sign/trade for the players currently on the roster?

His arm was twisted in hiring this coaching staff? Also into running 'his' laughable outdated offense?

Horseshit.

Take away the 'hangover' year after the SB appearance and its still a 3 year rebuild project that has amounted to jack shit.

If Aso walks after this season, so does this Raiderfan until Al fucking dies or sells the team. Period.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 8:24 am

You mocked Al because of the 'backlash' (officiating screwings) he's receiving.

Sounded like you blame him for getting hosed by the league year-in and year-out.

I dunno, maybe I read you wrong.

I don't think they'll let Aso walk.
I don't think he'll want to walk.
He's part of a real nice defense that is coming together.
That unit could be a real force for a while.

trev · Post by **trev** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 3:03 pm

Poptart, I challenge you to quit the NFL. Despite their weaknesses and imperfections you can't quit.

Cuda · Post by **Cuda** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 5:39 pm

mvscal wrote:
poptart wrote:The call was a total fuck-job.
Either that or you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

Fumble defined, Rule 3, Section 2, Article 4:

A fumble is any act other than a pass or legal kick which results in loss of player possession. The term Fumble always implies possession. (8-4-2 Exc.1)

Note: If a player pretends to fumble and causes the ball to go forward, it is a forward pass and may be illegal. (8-1-1 Pen. a, c).

Pass defined, Rule 3, Section 21, Article 1:

A Pass is the movement of the ball caused by the handing, throwing, shoving (shovel pass), or pushing by a runner (3-27-1). Such a movement is a pass, even though the ball does not leave his hand or hands, provided a teammate takes it (hand to hand pass).

Note: The term is also used to designate the action of a player who causes a pass as in, "He will pass the ball."

Forward pass defined, Rule 3, Section 21, Article 2:

A Forward Pass is a pass that:

(a) initially moves forward (to a point nearer the opponent's goal line) after leaving the passer's hands and before touching another player; or

(b) is handed (regardless of the direction of movement of the ball) to a player who is in advance of a teammate from whose hands he takes or receives it.

.

It's too bad you wasted a "you don't know what the fuck you're talking about" on this subject, mvs.

That clearly was not a pass of any kind and it was totally by chance that the ball happened to bounce forward. For it to be a pass, he'd have had to be trying to pass it to someone. Who the fuck would that have been? Everybody else on his team was behind him. He wasn't intending to advance the ball, he was intending to taunt the defense. The refs initially got it right but then pussed out and changed the call when the home crowd didn't like it. (either that, or the crew chief had money bet on the game). I'm guessing the NFL will quietly just not re-hire those refs next season.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 5:53 pm

Too bad Cuda never learned to read.

A Pass is the movement of the ball caused by the handing, throwing, shoving (shovel pass), or pushing by a runner (3-27-1). Such a movement is a pass, even though the ball does not leave his hand or hands, provided a teammate takes it (hand to hand pass).

A Forward Pass is a pass that:

(a) initially moves forward (to a point nearer the opponent's goal line) after leaving the passer's hands and before touching another player; or...

Where does it say anything about to someone?

Idiot.

atomicdad · Post by **atomicdad** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:09 pm

Gotta love the irony on that play, seeings how that rule was put in the rule book because of the Raiders and Dave Casper.

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:25 pm

Yet another example of how a technically correct ruling makes absolutely no fucking sense whatsoever.

Also, why does the NFL allow players to spike the ball in the field of play? God forbid that 2 players do the funky chicken after scoring a TD, but it's OK for a player to spike the ball and beat his chest after making a fucking first down?

jiminphilly · Post by **jiminphilly** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 7:29 pm

BSmack wrote:Yet another example of how a technically correct ruling makes absolutely no fucking sense whatsoever.

Also, why does the NFL allow players to spike the ball in the field of play? God forbid that 2 players do the funky chicken after scoring a TD, but it's OK for a player to spike the ball and beat his chest after making a fucking first down?

I know.. I'm getting tired of seeing the Steelers do that too.

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 7:37 pm

jiminphilly wrote:
BSmack wrote:Yet another example of how a technically correct ruling makes absolutely no fucking sense whatsoever.

Also, why does the NFL allow players to spike the ball in the field of play? God forbid that 2 players do the funky chicken after scoring a TD, but it's OK for a player to spike the ball and beat his chest after making a fucking first down?
I know.. I'm getting tired of seeing the Steelers do that too.

Every team does it. And it's fucking stupid and unprofessional.

Cuda · Post by **Cuda** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 7:54 pm

mvscal wrote:
Cuda wrote:For it to be a pass, he'd have had to be trying to pass it to someone.
Wrong answer, dimwit. Who is the intended receiver when a QB spikes the ball to stop the clock?
You do realise that that is an incomplete forward pass, don't you?

It was a pass by rule. You don't have to like it. You just have to suck on it.

The spike rule is strictly for a special, specific situation. Prior to the rule, it was correctly called.... a fumble

Mikey wrote:Too bad Cuda never learned to read.

A Pass is the movement of the ball caused by the handing, throwing, shoving (shovel pass), or pushing by a runner (3-27-1). Such a movement is a pass, even though the ball does not leave his hand or hands, provided a teammate takes it (hand to hand pass).

A Forward Pass is a pass that:

(a) initially moves forward (to a point nearer the opponent's goal line) after leaving the passer's hands and before touching another player; or...

Where does it say anything about to someone?

The applicible wording would be the part where it says "provided a teammate takes it"

mvscal wrote:
BSmack wrote:Yet another example of how a technically correct ruling makes absolutely no fucking sense whatsoever.

A play of sheer boneheaded idiocy such as that makes for a technical ruling that would appear to defy sense. The call of an illegal forward pass is the closest proximity in the book to what happened on the field and Jackson was duly penalized for it.

The closest ruling "in proximity" would be that it was a fumble- which, by the fucking way, was what they initially ruled it was.

Even assuming the "illegal forward pass" call was correct, they got the penalty wrong.

NFL Rulebook wrote:3. The passer must be behind his line of scrimmage (Loss of down and five yards, enforced from the spot of pass).

It was 4th down. Loss of down in that case automatically gives possession to the other team

Cuda · Post by **Cuda** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 8:18 pm

mvscal wrote:Wrong again, idiot. An intentional fumble forward is a forward pass.

That is not a twisted interpretation of the rule. That is the rule.

Cuda wrote:
Even assuming the "illegal forward pass" call was correct, they got the penalty wrong.

NFL Rulebook wrote:3. The passer must be behind his line of scrimmage (Loss of down and five yards, enforced from the spot of pass).
It was 4th down. Loss of down in that case automatically gives possession to the other team

Some part of that you didn't understand?

Cuda · Post by **Cuda** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 8:27 pm

The penalty the refs gave the Chargers on the play was incorrect.

The correct penalty for an illegal forward pass that happens beyond the line of scrimmage is 5 yards from the spot of the pass & LOSS OF DOWN

The penalty they gave the Chargers was for an illegal forward pass from behind the line of scrimmage.

Sirfindafold · Post by **Sirfindafold** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 8:43 pm

mvscal wrote:I've got the rule book in hand right now.

and your 2" popcock in the other.

you're a fuckin' jerkoff.

Cuda · Post by **Cuda** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 8:52 pm

mvscal, this is one time that you clearly don't know what the fuck you're talking about

the play happened on 4th down- loss of down on 4th down means loss of possession, regardless of how many yards were gained.

if, for instance, he'd done it on 3rd down, of course they'd get to keep the excess yardage. it happens all the time- same as if he'd have caught a 25 yard pass and then grabbed a defender's face mask to keep from being tackled. 25 yards for the catch, minus 15 yards for the personal foul; The offensive team still gets the net yardage.

Cuda · Post by **Cuda** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 9:08 pm

http://www.nfl.com/fans/rules/forwardpass

Digest of Rules

Forward Pass
1. A forward pass may be touched or caught by any eligible receiver. All members of the defensive team are eligible. Eligible receivers on the offensive team are players on either end of line (other than center, guard, or tackle) or players at least one yard behind the line at the snap. A T-formation quarterback is not eligible to receive a forward pass during a play from scrimmage.

Exception: T-formation quarterback becomes eligible if pass is previously touched by an eligible receiver.

2. An offensive team may make only one forward pass during each play from scrimmage (Loss of 5 yards).

3. The passer must be behind his line of scrimmage (Loss of down and five yards, enforced from the spot of pass).

4. Any eligible offensive player may catch a forward pass. If a pass is touched by one eligible offensive player and touched or caught by a second offensive player, pass completion is legal. Further, all offensive players become eligible once a pass is touched by an eligible receiver or any defensive player.

5. The rules concerning a forward pass and ineligible receivers:

(a) If ball is touched accidentally by an ineligible receiver on or behind his line: loss of five yards.

(b) If ineligible receiver is illegally downfield: loss of five yards.

(c) If touched or caught (intentionally or accidentally) by ineligible receiver beyond the line: loss of 5 yards.

6. The player who first controls and continues to maintain control of a pass will be awarded the ball even though his opponent later establishes joint control of the ball.

7. Any forward pass becomes incomplete and ball is dead if:

(a) Pass hits the ground or goes out of bounds.

(b) Pass hits the goal post or the crossbar of either team.

8. A forward pass is complete when a receiver clearly possesses the pass and touches the ground with both feet inbounds while in possession of the ball. If a receiver would have landed inbounds with both feet but is carried or pushed out of bounds while maintaining possession of the ball, pass is complete at the out-of-bounds spot.

9. On a fourth down pass an incomplete pass results in a loss of down at the line of scrimmage.

10. If a personal foul is committed by the defense prior to the completion of a pass, the penalty is 15 yards from the spot where ball becomes dead.

11. If a personal foul is committed by the offense prior to the completion of a pass, the penalty is 15 yards from the previous line of scrimmage.

If you're going to go with the ruling that it was in illegal forward pass, then you can't get around the fact that it happened beyond the line of scrimmage and the penalty for an illegal forward pass that happens beyond the line of scrimmage includes loss of down.

THAT is end of motherfucking story

ChargerMike · Post by **ChargerMike** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 9:09 pm

Birth of a Dynasty...The Hater Nation

The Patriots rose to prominence on the wings of a "tuck rule," as they turned a controversial call against the Raiders into three Super Bowls. Could the Chargers do the same with Vincent Jackson's illegal forward pass? You really have to hand it to referee Mike Carey, whose strict interpretation of the rules was as baffling as it was rewarding to the Chargers. Like he went to the Greg Brady "exact words," card. A forward pass? Even Vince Young's throwing motion isn't that bad. And really, if you are going to be that literal with the rules, shouldn't Jackson have been flagged for intentional grounding?

While it was great to screw the Raiders, the call really let Jackson off the hook when he shouldn't have been. You would think that being around LaDainian Tomlinson day after day would give you a little humility, but you would be wrong in Jackson's case. LT is closing in on the all-time single-season scoring record, but he doesn't celebrate after touchdowns. And here’s Jackson, spiking the ball, err, illegally passing forward, after a 13-yard reception. Against the Raiders. Not only are you taunting after a first down, you are doing it against one of the worst teams in the league. Stay classy, Jackson.

Sirfindafold · Post by **Sirfindafold** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 9:22 pm

ChargerMike wrote: Even Vince Young's throwing motion isn't that bad. And really, if you are going to be that literal with the rules, shouldn't Jackson have been flagged for intentional grounding?

Ask mvscunt, he has a rule book in hand right now.

Cuda · Post by **Cuda** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 9:51 pm

And it is a loss of down for a pass attempt from beyond the LOS.

The link I posted takes you right to the motherfucking NFL website.

Do you seriously believe the NFL doesn't know it's own fucking rules?

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 9:59 pm

Loss of down means that you don't replay the previous down. If you advance the ball far enough to make the first down even after the penalty, you get the first down. It's always been that way and it still is, no matter how much you wish it wasn't.

Your own post says "enforced from the spot of the pass".

Idiot.

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 10:02 pm

Cuda wrote:And it is a loss of down for a pass attempt from beyond the LOS.

The link I posted takes you right to the motherfucking NFL website.

Do you seriously believe the NFL doesn't know it's own fucking rules?

This is a league that employed Phil Luckett. Anything is possible.

ChargerMike · Post by **ChargerMike** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 10:04 pm

Mikey wrote:Loss of down means that you don't replay the previous down. If you advance the ball far enough to make the first down even after the penalty, you get the first down. It's always been that way and it still is, no matter how much you wish it wasn't.

Idiot.

...righty oh Mikey...this must be the part that some of these squids are missing!

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:13 am

ChargerMike wrote: ...the call really let Jackson off the hook when he shouldn't have been.

More like, the call really let the Blots off the hook, when they shouldn't have been. San Diego should have to forfeit the game, basely solely on the sheer stupidity of one of the punks it provides with a paycheck.

Ruling of a forward pass be damned, there is no rule in place to cover being a dumbfuck who flips the ball to the ground in taunting celebration... when he wasn't even touched down.

Speaking of dumbfucks, no surprise was that the referee in that fiasco was Mike Carey. He of calling a roughing the QB penalty against Cincy that cost them the game at Tampa earlier this season.

Affirmative action be damned also, that mvscal is the worst referee in NFL history.