UFO at O'Hare

[LTS TRN 2]

Hold on, Jay, your horse is foaming and running blindly through the streets...

First, you suggest that the Nazca Lines --and the 100-mile-long plumb-straight roads discovered in the Ohio Valley--are "art"?

Second, you suggest that a commercial airline pilot cannot be trusted to distinguish between a saucer and a..cloud?

Third, you suggest that Dennis Miller is anything but a phony scum-sucking punk.

Fourth, you insist that the astronaut was just seeing "detrius"?

Fifth, you consistently point your argument at ME in a hollow ad hominem attack, when I've claimed nothing as to the veracity of the pilots' accounts, but rather posed questions as to trusting such pilots in the future.

Sixth, the idea of primitive natives having no "reference point" means what?...that they didn't see it?

Seventh, the fact that we are prepared for the IDEA of UFO's--unlike a Mexican seeing a man on a horse for the first time--has a direct bearing on a witness NOT being confused or necessarily led along to a conclusion. What, do you really compare a pilot to "people who haven't the capacity for a single rational thought? Smearing brain-dead crazies who still harbour their Star Trek fantasies sadly into adulthood?"

Really?

I'm not necessarily buying the pilots' story, but the question of why not remains. Rather, I'm pounding the smug (phony) rationalist perspective that you so readily trot out.

And indeed, the weird skulls were a bluff.

[Jay in Phoenix]

Maybe, though I wonder how they came by this alleged knowledge. In any event, the Aztecs and Incans were far from primitive. They were extraordinarily skilled engineers and astronomers.

It's unfortunately been several months since the article came out, and I didn't save it. However, if memory serves, I believe they did studies with indigenous, isolated tribes in the South Pacific. Don't recall which specifically. Putting that aspect of the post aside, the point was about perception, and how the mind can see what it chooses to see, or not.

Just like LTS can't see past his own troll job.

[Jay in Phoenix]

First - I offer art as a possibility. Since you're the expert here, you tell us what they are.

Second - I never once said the pilot couldn't differenciate between a saucer and a cloud. I "suggested" his perception was "foggy". Go back and re-read.

Third - Dennis Miller is what he is...a smart smart-ass. And he's a whole lot funnier than you.

Fouth - If by those little bits of dust floating around the capsule you mean detritus...yes.

Fifth - The "argument" if you will, has to do with your rallying cry behind "Pale Horse" as some sort of "key" to explaining UFO's. The rest just fell naturally into place, right on top of that pin-head of yours and your girlfriend Daisy in that photo.

Sixth - It means they had never seen a ship on the very far horizon, and had no way to perceive it as beeing a seperate part of the horizon. It wasn't until it was very close before they knew something "alien" was approaching. Funny how it wasn't Gods, or little gray men with giant domes or some slimy eight-foot spider-thingy...nope, just some dudes on a boat.

Think about that.

Seventh - We. That's funny nerdling. What's the name of your Saucer Club? The Galaxy Questors?


By Grabthar's hammer, this LTS TuRD really sucks!

[poptart]

One of the witnesses gave a radio interview and it's up on youtube.
He's a mover of grounded planes.
His account was that the object was visible for nearly 20 minutes.

20 minutes, multiple witnesses, and nobody got a pic .... ?

[War Wagon]

Did you ever stop to think, maybe they don't want their picture taken?

I've seen some shit that can't be simply explained away as a natural phenomena, and I'm from the Show me State. I don't believe a damn thing unless you can prove it.

But I know what I saw. Lights moving incredibly fast, darting to and fro across the sky, as if they were playing a game of tag. Nothing of this Earth moves the way those things did.

This was just east of KCI airport just after sundown about 10 years ago. Right in the flight path that incoming and outgoing planes normally take. Strangely enough, at that time there were zero flights going that direction. Hell, I don't know, maybe they had them all going north and south at the time. Pulled my car over on the shoulder off U.S. 169 and watched these fuckers frolic for a good ten minutes. Other cars were pulling over as well to watch this show. Just jaw dropping, amazing antics. I mean, shooting across entire quadrants of the sky in the blink of an eye. They were fucking playing, I tell you. I've seen the Blue Angels and the Thunderbirds airshows. Amatuers!

So anyways, I won't discount anybody telling me they saw something really strange as it regards UFO's. They're out there, but I think they have a really great sense of humor.

[Jay in Phoenix]

...sigh...

WW...consider what you just said. "Maybe they don't 'want' their picture taken?" Are you serious? Okay, let's roll with that for a second. If "they" don't want to be photographed, why are "they" going to all the trouble of being "seen" in the first place? If they can cloak themselves from radar or video or photographs, wouldn't this also apply to the naked eye?

Now then, as to your tag-playing lights. That story is almost a mirror match to the one concerning the so-called "Phoenix Lights" that were witnessed in Nevada, Arizona primarily, and California in March of 1997. One hot-spot was in the area of 7th Ave. and Indian School Road here in Phoenix. I know, I was working in that exact area that night and I was one of many that saw them live. It was freaky to say the least. They seemed to move in patterns, some in formation, others by themselves. They accelerated, turned and faded.

The crux of the story is here.

The truth behind the "lights" was far more mundane than imagined. They were simply flares that had been fired during a military training mission from an A-10 Warthog, aka, the A-10 Thunderbolt 2. If you have ever seen the video of the lights in direct contrast to footage of the flares themselves, the lights and patterns are nearly identical.

UFO Case # 069-511A is closed. Nothing further to see here. Move along.

Move along.

[Goober McTuber]

Come on, Jay, have you seen Whitey Wagon’s picture? Rock solid proof that aliens have not only visited the earth, they have mated with chimpanzees.

WAR "Whitey Wagon phone home".

[Tom In VA]

UFO Case # 069-511A is closed. Nothing further to see here. Move along.

Move along.

So it wasn't a space craft of alien nymphomaniac Marisa Tomei clones looking for me ?



FUCK. :twisted:

[War Wagon]

...sigh...

Why the ...sigh... Jay? This subject obviously interests you. Does it mess with your sock drawer to have these things discussed?

WW...consider what you just said. "Maybe they don't 'want' their picture taken?" Are you serious? Okay, let's roll with that for a second. If "they" don't want to be photographed, why are "they" going to all the trouble of being "seen" in the first place? If they can cloak themselves from radar or video or photographs, wouldn't this also apply to the naked eye?

Who knows? What I saw doesn't apply to any basic laws of physics as we understand those laws.

Gravity? Speed of Light? Ha! What I saw totally defies conventional theory. And what the fuck difference would a picture make anyway? You'd just say it was doctored. Moses needed a burning bush. Thomas needed to stick his hand in the wound. What do you need?

Not that I care what you believe.

Now then, as to your tag-playing lights. That story is almost a mirror match to the one concerning the so-called "Phoenix Lights" that were witnessed in Nevada, Arizona primarily, and California in March of 1997. One hot-spot was in the area of 7th Ave. and Indian School Road here in Phoenix. I know, I was working in that exact area that night and I was one of many that saw them live. It was freaky to say the least. They seemed to move in patterns, some in formation, others by themselves. They accelerated, turned and faded.

Here's what I saw:

Several (at least 6 or 7) bright red lights darting almost instantaeneously from one point to another across the night sky. Up, down, diagonally, over immense distances. I have no idea their approximate altitude, but I'd guess they were in the Earth's atmosphere. Hell, I don't know.

One would go and "tag" the other, and then that one would dart someplace else and "tag" another. All the while I could see the one's who just did the "tagging" remain stationary, waiting, as it were, for their 'turn' again. It was almost like a cosmic game of red rover.

The crux of the story is here.

The truth behind the "lights" was far more mundane than imagined. They were simply flares that had been fired during a military training mission from an A-10 Warthog, aka, the A-10 Thunderbolt 2. If you have ever seen the video of the lights in direct contrast to footage of the flares themselves, the lights and patterns are nearly identical.

A wikipedia article? I'm supposed to bow down before that?

Umm, no. Those weren't flares from A-10 Warthogs, and last I checked, the military doesn't conduct exercises 5 miles from an International airport. Wouldn't matter if they did. Flares don't behave that way.

Before you start accusing me of wearing a tin-foil hat, know that I don't give a flying fuck what you believe or don't believe. I'm just reporting what I saw. Take it for what it's worth. I'm not trying to convince you of anything, or dis-abuse any notion that you've pre-conceived.

But I'll tell you what I believe. I believe that there are more things under this sun, and this universe, than any of us can possibly imagine. The thought that a technologically superior race of beings exist which make our puny little existence negligible doesn't upset me in the least.

Go re-arrange your sock drawer. If you're feeling really adventurous, completely swap out your sock drawer with your underwear drawer.

[Goober McTuber]

Gravity? Speed of Light? Ha! What I saw totally defies conventional theory.

I would suggest that your understanding of "conventional theory" (whatever that's supposed to mean) is pathetically inadequate.

He saw flying ships that defied gravity. He saw lights that moved faster than the speed of light. He saw forklifts with factory-installed air conditioning. What part of Whitey World do you not understand, dumbfuck?

[Jay in Phoenix]

Why the ...sigh... Jay? This subject obviously interests you. Does it mess with your sock drawer to have these things discussed?

...sigh...

Whitey, are you actually trying to be a bigger dumbass than TuRD? The sigh was for a continuation of a discussion that was finished...at least for anyone with a degree of rational common sense. You and your Saucer Soulmate obviously enjoy basking in the droning glow of your "In Search Of" tapes, so feel free to disconnect yourself from reality within the fetid closet of conspiricy theory and munch one of my nice clean socks.

What I saw doesn't apply to any basic laws of physics as we understand those laws. Gravity? Speed of Light? Ha! What I saw totally defies conventional theory. And what the fuck difference would a picture make anyway? You'd just say it was doctored. Moses needed a burning bush. Thomas needed to stick his hand in the wound. What do you need?

You're conviction is slightly admirable, but it doesn't mean you saw E.-freakin'-T. Did you even once, just once, bother to consider that instead you were watching some form of military testing? Have you just tossed that out the window along with the bathwater and the baby? Or perhaps, what you saw could just possibly have been an optical illusion of lights from the ground reflected into the sky? Shit, it does happen.

If I saw a photo or video of something that looked just a little better than an out-of-focus hubcap, I might just give it a tinkers chance of being something less than an obvious hoax. Provide the photo and we'll judge it. Believe it or not, my mind is open to the "possibility" of alien existence, but as of this moment, there is NO PROOF WHATSOEVER of said existence. Find it and we can talk, otherwise stuff a sock in it.

Not that I care what you believe.

Because your a dumbass....I know.

Here's what I saw:

Several (at least 6 or 7) bright red lights darting almost instantaeneously from one point to another across the night sky. Up, down, diagonally, over immense distances. I have no idea their approximate altitude, but I'd guess they were in the Earth's atmosphere. Hell, I don't know.

One would go and "tag" the other, and then that one would dart someplace else and "tag" another. All the while I could see the one's who just did the "tagging" remain stationary, waiting, as it were, for their 'turn' again. It was almost like a cosmic game of red rover.

You haven't said where you were, or what the atmospheric conditions were like. Those are a factor, a critical one, in what you saw. Or perhaps, you're just conveniently omitting that part.

A wikipedia article? I'm supposed to bow down before that?

Okay, fair enough on that. I just used that because it was fairly all inclusive with it's information. Remember shitstain, I was there. I KNOW now what I saw. It makes perfect sense. Unlike you and LTS, who wish to perpetuate your dreamscape of fantasy. Just Google the Phoenix Lights, the story is there, in all of it's silly, boring nothingness.

Umm, no. Those weren't flares from A-10 Warthogs, and last I checked, the military doesn't conduct exercises 5 miles from an International airport. Wouldn't matter if they did. Flares don't behave that way.

Oh, so you're an expert in Air Force technology now? I can't and won't speak for where you live, but here in Phoenix, in the Papago Buttes area, within a 5-mile radius of Sky Harbour, military testing occurs.

Before you start accusing me of wearing a tin-foil hat, know that I don't give a flying fuck what you believe or don't believe. I'm just reporting what I saw. Take it for what it's worth.

I will, as it's worth nothing.

I'm not trying to convince you of anything, or dis-abuse any notion that you've pre-conceived.

No preconceptions. Just faith and knowledge in facts. For a Show-Me state guy, you sure seem to enjoy buying into that which cannot be proven. Whitey, your tin-foil hat is getting pretty damn dull. Might want to polish that bad boy up, 'cause your reception if fucked.

But I'll tell you what I believe. I believe that there are more things under this sun, and this universe, than any of us can possibly imagine. The thought that a technologically superior race of beings exist which make our puny little existence negligible doesn't upset me in the least.

Nor does it me. I've never, not once, denied the "possibility". And there are things in this universe we have yet to discover or ascertain in full, like dark matter for example. Or black holes. Or alien life. In a universe as vast and expanding, (or is it now contracting?) one has to acknowledge that life on Earth is probably not exclusive. I really do hope that one day, we find it. Or it finds us. But until we do, Mr. Show-Me-Guy, it's all speculation and myth.

Nothing more.

Go re-arrange your sock drawer. If you're feeling really adventurous, completely swap out your sock drawer with your underwear drawer.

Ugghh, that's a really unhealthy fascination you have with my socks and undies. Next thing you're going to be telling us how you wanna whack off in my briefs while watching re-runs of Star Trek.

Sicko.

[LTS TRN 2]

C'mon Jay, first it's "swamp gas" and now it's "military testing"? And anyone who diverges from this matter-of-fact analysis is a "tin-foil" wearing "saucer club" member"?

The reason you sigh is because you're a phony, a tired and tedious close-minded twit who automatically goes for the cheap smear (and as noted, fake analogies and false comparisons) while evading any real issues or questions.

Check this out, and try not to embarrass yourself further.
URL

[Jay in Phoenix]

So I seem the Dumbass Duo's charter member is back. And this represents his..."argument." Fuggin pathetic.

C'mon Jay, first it's "swamp gas" and now it's "military testing"? And anyone who diverges from this matter-of-fact analysis is a "tin-foil" wearing "saucer club" member"?

What exactly in the hell are you babbling about 'tard? Could you at least be specific? I mentioned swamp gas like what, once? And that was in a list at least ten different things that have been attributed to and confused for UFO's. The military testing is EXACTLY what happened here in Phoenix. I don't know about Whitey's deal, as he hasn't been any more forthcoming other than to say he saw twinkle lights in the sky. And no, anyone who diverges from this analysis, as you put it, doesn't fall into the fanatical fringe. However, dinks like you who are falling head over heels over ridiculously obviously phony photos deserves the rubber room and stack o' sedatives.

The reason you sigh is because you're a phony, a tired and tedious close-minded twit who automatically goes for the cheap smear (and as noted, fake analogies and false comparisons) while evading any real issues or questions.

Check this out, and try not to embarrass yourself further.
URL

The reason for the gimmick of the sigh is that you are a tiresome dullard. And yet, it's just so much fun to use you as a punching bag, and Whitey as the spitoon. Fake analogies and false comparisons?

Excuse me for a moment....

BWAAAAA-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Thank you, that feels better.

Dipshit, the first time you post anything resembling proof, any sort of reasonable shred of analysis or theory beyond that which you've been spoon-fed by comic books and cheap sci-fi serials, well...it will be the first time. I'm waiting, no rush. Take your feeble time, you'll need it.

And as to those old and horrible pictures from that link? Jesus-effing-fuck are you an idiot. Or still trolling, as I'm sure that's all it is. Each and every one of those pics has been long, long debunked. But go ahead and join Whitey in a Cylon circle-jerk and shoot for the stars.

And spanks for nothing.

[War Wagon]

The sigh was for a continuation of a discussion that was finished...at least for anyone with a degree of rational common sense.

So you get to decide when a discussion is finished, huh? Forgive me if I don't follow your rules here. If you noticed, I didn't even chime in with my thoughts or experience on this subject until two or three days after the thread was started. That's because I knew this was the re-action it'd get.

Like I said, I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. I don't care whether you believe in ET life, or not. Hell, I don't care that much myself. Doesn't affect my life in the least. My taxes and mortgage are still fucking due either way.

Just relating what I saw which was quite remarkable, and what I believe it was not. Not of this Earth. Who the fuck are you or any of the other schmucks here to tell me what it was and that what I believe is wrong?

You and your Saucer Soulmate obviously enjoy basking in the droning glow of your "In Search Of" tapes, so feel free to disconnect yourself from reality within the fetid closet of conspiricy theory and munch one of my nice clean socks.

Huh? In trying to separate the lame-ass "smack" from your "point" in that run on sentence, I'm left with the word "conspiracy". So you think that I believe there's some sort of conspiracy afoot to hide the prescence of UFO's? Where did I suggest that? That's right, I didn't, and you know why? Because I don't give a fuck if there is or not. I saw what I saw, I believe what I believe. Matters not to me what anyone else thinks.

You're conviction is slightly admirable, but it doesn't mean you saw E.-freakin'-T. Did you even once, just once, bother to consider that instead you were watching some form of military testing? Have you just tossed that out the window along with the bathwater and the baby? Or perhaps, what you saw could just possibly have been an optical illusion of lights from the ground reflected into the sky? Shit, it does happen.

Considered, discarded. No earthly explanation either natural or man made exists.

If I saw a photo or video of something that looked just a little better than an out-of-focus hubcap, I might just give it a tinkers chance of being something less than an obvious hoax. Provide the photo and we'll judge it. Believe it or not, my mind is open to the "possibility" of alien existence, but as of this moment, there is NO PROOF WHATSOEVER of said existence. Find it and we can talk, otherwise stuff a sock in it.

I didn't have a camera, but I had my eyes. Obviously, that's not good enough for you. But it is for me. It's not like I was calling the police or the media at the time. It was interesting, to say the least, but they weren't bothering me, so I moved on.

It get's good here. From the previous post I said:

"Not that I care what you believe." And then you responded with this gem:

Because your a dumbass....I know.

Oh goody! This is where i get to point out that you can't spell or use an apostrophe in the right place... in a sentence in which you call me a dumbass. Cha-Ching!

But nevermind that faux pas Jay and let's address the wieghtier issue. Please explain how me not caring what you believe makes me a dumbass?

Or don't, and we'll leave it at you're a dumbass. Fair enough?

You haven't said where you were, or what the atmospheric conditions were like. Those are a factor, a critical one, in what you saw. Or perhaps, you're just conveniently omitting that part.

I did say where i was (gratuitous use here of) dumbass. Five miles east of KCI airport off U.S. 169. Maybe you conveniently omitted reading that part of my account? As for the weather, it was crystal clear and chilly at the time.

No preconceptions. Just faith and knowledge in facts. For a Show-Me state guy, you sure seem to enjoy buying into that which cannot be proven.

A Show me state guy got shown, man. That's what I'm trying to relate. I saw it with my own fucking eyes. I'm not "buying" into anything or "enjoying" it either. I saw what I saw.

No preconceptions? Right. Then how come you're so eager to discount anybodies personal experience out of hand? Either you do have preconceived notions, or you just revel in trying to be an argumentative message board dweeb trying (and failing badly) to get over.

I've never, not once, denied the "possibility". And there are things in this universe we have yet to discover or ascertain in full, like dark matter for example. Or black holes. Or alien life. In a universe as vast and expanding, (or is it now contracting?) one has to acknowledge that life on Earth is probably not exclusive. I really do hope that one day, we find it. Or it finds us. But until we do, Mr. Show-Me-Guy, it's all speculation and myth.

Whatever. For a guy who really "hopes" we find it or it finds us, you sure like to overtly play the it's all a "hoax" card. Seems to me you're talking out of both sides of your mouth.

I, on the other hand, don't give a fuck. See, Death and Taxes.

[War Wagon]

Considered, discarded. No earthly explanation either natural or man made exists.

You stack objects on top of each other with a forklift. What the fuck do you know about physics?

Actually, I don't drive a forklift. I graduated to engineeering and management years ago.

But even if I did drive a forklift still (no shame in that) I'd know that what I saw had no earthly explanation.

But do tell, mvgrunt. What the fuck do you know about physics?

What do you do for gainful employment, besides racking up enormous post totals on your employers dime?

Fuck off, you worthless piece of shit.

[Jay in Phoenix]

Lets boil this down to this discussions essential equation:

[quote="War Wagon" and"LTS TuRD"][/quote]

And with that out of the way, there's this:

In trying to separate the lame-ass "smack" from your "point" in that run on sentence, I'm left with the word "conspiracy". So you think that I believe there's some sort of conspiracy afoot to hide the prescence of UFO's?

Whitey, that line was for the benefit of LTS TuRD, not you. I don't connect you with being a conspiricy theorist other than in a joking way. Point of fact, my first response to your initial post in this thread was without any smack or putdowns of any sort. You started the insults, you came in pissed off, though god knows why. I just returned the favor. Can't take the heat, stay the fuck out of the thread.

No earthly explanation either natural or man made exists.

And so ends any credibility you were grasping onto. No earthly explanation. Public intoxication much?

Oh goody! This is where i get to point out that you can't spell or use an apostrophe in the right place... in a sentence in which you call me a dumbass. Cha-Ching!

But nevermind that faux pas Jay and let's address the wieghtier issue. Please explain how me not caring what you believe makes me a dumbass?

Or don't, and we'll leave it at you're a dumbass. Fair enough?

Oh goody! Apostrophe smack! Genius! Encore, encore! Let the genius continue! :golfclap:

No preconceptions? Right. Then how come you're so eager to discount anybodies personal experience out of hand? Either you do have preconceived notions, or you just revel in trying to be an argumentative message board dweeb trying (and failing badly) to get over.

Or, to be more precise:

I didn't dismiss your tale out of hand dumbest-ass, I merely asked you to consider any other earthly source. You're the one dimissing any other possible explanation, except good ol' little gray men.

Hypocrite much?

Pot and kettle much?

Delusional much?

You're dismissed Whitey. Nothing more to see here. Move along.

Move along.

[poptart]

Wagon, I'm not gonna crack you for your take.
I didn't see what you did -- none of us did.
Hey, you saw what you saw, and it made the impression on you that it did.

BUT, plenty of folks who saw that 'Phoenix Lights' deal were also convinced that what they saw had no earthly explanation.

[Tom In VA]

Considered, discarded. No earthly explanation either natural or man made exists.

You stack objects on top of each other with a forklift. What the fuck do you know about physics?

Are you fucking kidding me ?

[Jay in Phoenix]

Poptart, that is exactly what I've been trying to say to Wagon. He saw what he saw, and none of the rest of us did. Maybe it wasn't what the Phx. Lights were, maybe it was. The point being, the acknowledgement of all possible explanations, not just one and done and end of story.

To paraphrase an old quote, it's only when all logical probability is eliminated than the impossible, or the most fantastic, should be considered.

Thanks for your rationality. It's a breath of fresh air.

[War Wagon]

To paraphrase an old quote, it's only when all logical probability is eliminated than the impossible, or the most fantastic, should be considered.

Actually, the old saw goes more like this:

When you've eliminated all probable cause, whatever's left, no matter how fantastic, is the explanation.

Thanks for playing, Sherlock.

[Jay in Phoenix]

Actually, the old saw goes more like this:

When you've eliminated all probable cause, whatever's left, no matter how fantastic, is the explanation.

Thanks for playing, Sherlock.

And thus the reason I paraphrased it ya' goofball. And of course you've missed the obvious...again...in that the reason for using that quote, is that you threw all logical considerations out from the very beginning. Are you arguing just for sake of arguing?

What the hell does this remind me of....oh yeah.


Whitey Wagon: I'd like to have an argument, please.
Receptionist: Certainly sir. Have you been here before?
WW: No, I haven't, this is my first time.
R: I see. Well, do you want to have just one argument, or were you thinking of taking a course?
WW: Depends, what is the cost?
R: Well, It's ten dollars for a five minute argument, but only fifty dollars for a course of ten.
WW: Well, I think it would be best if I perhaps started off with just the one and then see how it goes.
R: Fine. Well, I'll see who's free at the moment.

Pause

R: Mr. Jay is free, but he's a little bit conciliatory. Ahh yes, Try Mr. Logic; room 12.
WW: Thank you.

(Walks down the hall. Opens door.)

Logic: WHAT DO YOU WANT?
WW: Well, I was told outside that...
Logic: Don't give me that, you snotty-faced heap of parrot droppings!
WW: What?
Logic: Shut your festering gob, you tit! Your type really makes me puke, you vacuous, coffee-nosed, maloderous, pervert!!!
WW: Look, I CAME HERE FOR AN ARGUMENT, I'm not going to just stand...!!
Logic: OH, oh I'm sorry, but this is abuse.
WW: Oh, I see, well, that explains it.
Logic: Ah yes, you want room 12A, Just along the corridor.
WW: Oh, Thank you very much. Sorry.
Logic: Not at all.
WW: Thank You.
Logic: (Under his breath) Stupid git!!

Well gee Whitey, it's no wonder you ignore all logic, as it's been abusing you from the very beginning.

[LTS TRN 2]

We'd love to debate..er..explain things to you, but we had a little problem entering your atmosphere. Hold on, our follow up crew will be along in a day or two...uh..which is approximately eight-thousand of your puny earth years.

[War Wagon]

... you threw all logical considerations out from the very beginning. Are you arguing just for sake of arguing?

No Jay, I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing. I don't have that much free time on my hands. I simply stated what I saw and what I believed it was not. I never dismissed all logical explanation either. What I saw defies all logical explanation, despite your rather lame efforts to discredit my testimony.

Where's your horse in this race? You're just hell bent on throwing cold water on any theory that doesn't fit in neatly with your notions of how the universe really operates on the one hand, and then saying that you hope you're wrong on the other. This does not compute, and thus the earlier statement that you talk from both sides of your mouth.

Remember, you're the guy who just had to prove what an astute observer of all ET phenomena you were, and jumped on my observation. I'd say that you're the one just arguing for the sake of arguing.

Whatever. We can rehash this topic until the mods send this to Trots. My take isn't changing. Not so sure about yours, since by your posts you don't seem too sure about what you'd like to believe youself.

[Mister Bushice]

I graduated to engineeering

AKA "cleaning the shitter".

and management

AKA "Getting co worker to clean shitter."

[War Wagon]

I graduated to engineeering

AKA "cleaning the shitter".

and management

AKA "Getting co worker to clean shitter."

And you just graduated to the Goober McTuber ankle biting level.

Wait, that was a demotion.

Bitchshice, why do you continuously strive to be an idiot?

[Solo]

I graduated to engineeering

AKA "cleaning the shitter".

and management

AKA "Getting illegal alien to clean shitter."

ftfy

[Jay in Phoenix]

Jay, I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing. I don't have that much free time on my hands. I simply stated what I saw and what I believed it was not. I never dismissed all logical explanation either. What I saw defies all logical explanation, despite your rather lame efforts to discredit my testimony.

Alright Wags, I have said numerous times now, I didn't see what you claim to have seen. If I've discredited you, well come on now, it is a smackboard. Set something up, somebody is going to knock it down. That aside, all I did was give you a comparative (as best as it can be, given the parameters of the discription of your "sighting") example of a similar experience, one I saw myself. From the beginning, you insist that what you saw seemed to defy physical law. However, for one who hasn't dismissed "all logical explanation either", you sure do seem to have your head stuck into the stars of the improabable. Remeber one still very critical thing here. What I saw that night in Phoenix, at the time based on the fact that I had never seen anything like it before (hint-hint...this goes back to that pesky perspective thingy!), seemed to qualify as a UFO.

'Twas flares quoth the Raven, nothing more.

Where's your horse in this race?

Gate 5, Turf Paradise. Paid 15 to 1 to win. Sweet.

You're just hell bent on throwing cold water on any theory that doesn't fit in neatly with your notions of how the universe really operates on the one hand, and then saying that you hope you're wrong on the other. This does not compute, and thus the earlier statement that you talk from both sides of your mouth.

Wrong wrong and wrong. Again. I'm not going to splash ice water on every theory, just the ones that have been debunked so far. Niether you nor LTS TRoLL have posted anything, any photo, that isn't a hoax. Your stance behind your story, no matter how impassioned, only qualifies as that...a story. It's a shame you haven't got something more concrete than your word, but dude, no proof...no truth, not when it pertains to this highly speculative and suspect subject.

What you seem to have is faith, blind as it seems to be. Faith and truth are two different animals and you know it.

Remember, you're the guy who just had to prove what an astute observer of all ET phenomena you were, and jumped on my observation. Whatever. We can rehash this topic until the mods send this to Trots. My take isn't changing. Not so sure about yours, since by your posts you don't seem too sure about what you'd like to believe youself.

Where and when did I say I was an "astute observer of all ET phenom"? You're reading things into things there sporto, so yes, whatever indeed. I know your "take", whatever the hell it is, isn't changing. Mine never has, no matter how hard you whine that it did.

Last time...it would be just swell to think that we aren't the only intelligent life in the universe. It would be swell if that in our lifetime, proof of extraterrestrial existence came to pass. Heretofore, history dictates it hasn't and it probably won't. So I ain't holdin' my breath brah.

It's nice to dream about "what if", it's much better to live in what is.

Open your eyes Wags. And move along.

[Goober McTuber]

Goober McTuber

I am so far into your dome, I no longer have to rip your head off to shit down your neck.

[War Wagon]

Sorry, Jay... little gnat here that needs to be shooed away.

I am so far into your dome....

That's what all ankle biting board bitches have to say when caught in the act of being an ankle biting, no game having, board bitch.

You're dismissed. Go climb a tree and try not to fall out and break your neck.

wait...

[War Wagon]

However, for one who hasn't dismissed "all logical explanation either", you sure do seem to have your head stuck into the stars of the improabable.

What I saw was very improbable Jay, else I wouldn't have commented on it. My head isn't stuck anywhere. It's not like i run around just looking for reasons to scream "we are NOT alone".

I'm not going to splash ice water on every theory, just the ones that have been debunked so far. Niether you nor LTS TRoLL have posted anything, any photo, that isn't a hoax.

Don't associate me with LTS. Thanks.

As for a hoax. Do you seriously believe I'm wasting my time in here trying to perpetrate or perpetuate some hoax? I stated what I saw, and what I believe it wasn't. Nothing more. Take it for what it's worth and fucking deal with it.

Your stance behind your story, no matter how impassioned, only qualifies as that...a story. It's a shame you haven't got something more concrete than your word, but dude, no proof...no truth, not when it pertains to this highly speculative and suspect subject.

Impassioned? You should see me carry on over the Chiefs.

As for proof, I don't need no steenkin' proof to post my tale. I'm not some shit troll trying to get a rise out of anybody. My word is all that I have here... that's all any of us have.

Open your eyes Wags. And move along.

They're open all the time, and I'm moving right along. Did the same that night ten years ago as I had ten pins to go crash. I wasn't thinking much about it by the 3rd frame and the 1st pitcher halfway drained.

But I haven't forgotten, either.

[Goober McTuber]

Sorry, Jay... little gnat here that needs to be shooed away.

I am so far into your dome, I no longer have to rip your head off to shit down your neck.

That's what all ankle biting board bitches have to say when caught in the act of being an ankle biting, no game having, board bitch.

You're dismissed. Go climb a tree and try not to fall out and break your neck.

wait...

Tard Wagon,

When you’re addressing Bushice but can’t help mentioning my name, well, it just seems that I must be on your mind.

“Go climb a tree”? That’s some biting smack you got there, Cletus. Thank God you didn’t break out your “I am rubber, you are glue” blast.

[Jay in Phoenix]

Wags, last thougths from me here...(I hope)...and I'm done with this.

What I saw was very improbable Jay, else I wouldn't have commented on it. My head isn't stuck anywhere. It's not like i run around just looking for reasons to scream "we are NOT alone". -- Don't associate me with LTS. Thanks.

WW, I cannot stretch the point of 'perspective' any more than I have. So I'll bring it down to it's basics. Nobody could possibly know what an extraterrestiral craft looks like. Sure, we can imagine what one might, but never know for sure unless it is right in front of us. Kind of like what a person who has never seen a ship, or better yet, a helicopter before, who has no basis of experience as to what a ship or chopper would even be, let alone exist, look like. Taking that a step further, what is their reaction when they see one for the first time? They see it as alien, so to speak, for they have no reference point in their knowledge or culture that would explain its' existence on a logical level. Therefore, once again, it is alien.

Just like a new and mysterious light in the sky (like a never before seen comet back in pre-history for example) might be explained as an unidentified flying object, or even a god, to an eye and mind that has no reference point to explain what the hell it is. With me so far? (long winded run-on sentence bastard, I know! :wink: ) Sci-fi, television, movies, hell..even legitimate science have all speculated, maybe even reasonably as to what a real UFO might look like, but we are constricted by our imaginations based on terrestrial physical truths and laws. That's why my untrained eye imagined, as did a hell of a lot of other folks, I had seen UFO's one night in March of '97.

Maybe your story is different. Maybe your sighting was different. Just think about it now, from an updated...'perspective'.

As for a hoax. Do you seriously believe I'm wasting my time in here trying to perpetrate or perpetuate some hoax? I stated what I saw, and what I believe it wasn't. Nothing more. Take it for what it's worth and fucking deal with it.

Actually, I didn't mean to imply you were perpetrating a hoax. That was directed at LTS, you got caught in the cross-fire.

Impassioned? You should see me carry on over the Chiefs.

I'll bet. I get the St. Louis blues all the time.

As for proof, I don't need no steenkin' proof to post my tale. I'm not some shit troll trying to get a rise out of anybody. My word is all that I have here... that's all any of us have.

Fair enough. Our word(s) are what we carry onto this board. So no, you don't need to have proof. The other side of the coin is that you leave yourself open to criticism with a stroy like yours, so don't get upset when somebody tries to poke holes in it. That's what healthy skepticism is for.

They're open all the time, and I'm moving right along. Did the same that night ten years ago as I had ten pins to go crash. I wasn't thinking much about it by the 3rd frame and the 1st pitcher halfway drained.

But I haven't forgotten, either.

And I haven't forgotten about that night of March of '97. I just see it more clearly now.

Cheers.

[War Wagon]

Wags, last thougths from me here...(I hope)...and I'm done with this.

Good enough. I'm done too. Nice give and take discussion.

You're an asset to T1B, Jay.

Now what's this stuff JSC is talking about?