The pope just named four new saints. Isn't a miracle required to be named a saint, unless they were "martyrs"? And if that's the case, why is it that there are never any clear cut miracles that can be 100% verified as true by the non religious sector of society? If miracles did exist, they shouldn't only happen on remote farms in the 1800's. but just like UFO's, you never see any in or near a major city.
And why are popes all saint happy? JPII canonized 464 people into sainthood, 63 without martyrdom as an entry ticket. He beatified 1299, mostly labeled martyrs. How in hell does he know they all made it into "Heaven"? does a list get published somewhere?
It's these kind of mumbo jumbo practices that just crack me up about religion. Make up a bunch of rules and then get everyone to buy into them si what it boils down to. People need a reason to believe.
This "Saint" Crap
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Mister Bushice
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Mister Bushice
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Shlomart Ben Yisrael
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Re: This "Saint" Crap
Pope JP2 put on his hairnet and served up a heaping order of "Feelgood Blue-Plate Special" to all the Cafeteria Catholics.Mister Bushice wrote:The pope just named four new saints. Isn't a miracle required to be named a saint, unless they were "martyrs"? And if that's the case, why is it that there are never any clear cut miracles that can be 100% verified as true by the non religious sector of society? If miracles did exist, they shouldn't only happen on remote farms in the 1800's. but just like UFO's, you never see any in or near a major city.
And why are popes all saint happy? JPII canonized 464 people into sainthood, 63 without martyrdom as an entry ticket. He beatified 1299, mostly labeled martyrs. How in hell does he know they all made it into "Heaven"? does a list get published somewhere?
It's these kind of mumbo jumbo practices that just crack me up about religion. Make up a bunch of rules and then get everyone to buy into them si what it boils down to. People need a reason to believe.
I'm surprised he didn't introduce paintball games during Mass.
What that church will do to get people's minds off all the kiddie fucking and Vatican avarice is mind-boggling.
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Why don’t you just STFU.
Why are there saints anyway? I have never understood this at all, coming from a Protestant background. I did go to a pre-canonization mass years ago in St. Louis for the person that started Opus Dei because I was invited by a friend who was in that order, and it was beautiful...but I didn't have any idea why there are saints, asked then and got no answer, and still don't know.
My mother in law is Catholic, and saints are important to her. I have asked her why, but all she says is they are to be respected and at times will help in prayer.
I still don't get it. If prayer is to God, why have saints? They sound a bit too departmental to me...like one is over something and another is over something else. Then again I believe in angels working in our lives and miracles as well, so I might not be the right person to be banging on anyone for a belief in saints :)
My mother in law is Catholic, and saints are important to her. I have asked her why, but all she says is they are to be respected and at times will help in prayer.
I still don't get it. If prayer is to God, why have saints? They sound a bit too departmental to me...like one is over something and another is over something else. Then again I believe in angels working in our lives and miracles as well, so I might not be the right person to be banging on anyone for a belief in saints :)
Angels help serve in fulfilling God's Word and intentions.
They also serve in helping believers.
The Bible clearly shows these things.
No 'saint' does diddly freaking SQUAT in helping with prayer.
1 Timothy 2:5: For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus
Prayer is from the believer to God in the name of Jesus Christ.
They also serve in helping believers.
The Bible clearly shows these things.
No 'saint' does diddly freaking SQUAT in helping with prayer.
1 Timothy 2:5: For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus
Prayer is from the believer to God in the name of Jesus Christ.
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JCT
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Ang wrote:Why are there saints anyway?
From Catholiconline.com
When did the Church start honoring saints?
By the year 100 A.D., Christians were honoring other Christians who had died, and asking for their intercession. Many people think that honoring saints was something the Church set up later, but it was part of Christianity from the very beginning. As a matter of fact, this practice came from a long-standing tradition in the Jewish faith of honoring prophets and holy people with shrines. The first saints were martyrs, people who had given up their lives for the Faith in the persecution of Christians.
Do Catholics pray TO saints?
We pray with saints, not to them.
Have you ever asked anyone to pray for you when you were having a hard time? Why did you choose to ask that person?
You may have chosen someone you could trust, or someone who understood your problem, or someone who was close to God. Those are all reasons we ask saints to pray for us in times of trouble.
You can all carry on with the Catholic hate speech.
Man took knowledge of the risen Christ and perverted it, as he does everything.JCT wrote:By the year 100 A.D., Christians were honoring other Christians who had died, and asking for their intercession. Many people think that honoring saints was something the Church set up later, but it was part of Christianity from the very beginning.
Nowhere in the Bible is it indicated that believers in Christ should ask for 'intercession' from the dead.
Asking another believer(s) to pray for you makes perfect sense.Those are all reasons we ask saints to pray for us in times of trouble.
Asking a dead person to pray for you is not Biblical and it is straight up WACK.
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Terry in Crapchester
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As I understand it, there are actually two classes of saints.
The lower-case s saints are part of the communion of saints. This group includes pretty much everyone who died in the Catholic faith. It could include your parents and grandparents, for example.
The upper-case S Saints are people who have been canonized, which is what this topic is about. Why are there Saints? I suspect that, at least initially, Saints served a few purposes. Saints were well-known people whom the Church determined had lived exemplary lives. Thus, canonization actually had a theologically instructive purpose, at least in early days. Many of the earliest Saints were martyrs. It could be said of the martyrs that canonization was the reward for their sacrifice, although the more cynical undoubtedly would tend toward the argument that canonization was a way to placate the masses who may have feared for their lives on the basis of their faith.
Some Saints are patrons of certain people or things. For example, St. Jude is the patron saint of lost causes. St. Patrick is the patron saint of Ireland. And I believe St. Joseph is the patron saint of fathers.
As for Poptart's argument, it should be noted that the Catholic Church has never required anyone to seek intercession of the Saints, although it has taught that it is available of one who asks. Of course, from a theological point of view, all Christian faiths agree that there is nothing wrong with asking another living person to pray for you. Whether it is acceptable to ask a dead person to pray for you is a source of theological disagreement between Catholics and non-Catholic Christians.
The lower-case s saints are part of the communion of saints. This group includes pretty much everyone who died in the Catholic faith. It could include your parents and grandparents, for example.
The upper-case S Saints are people who have been canonized, which is what this topic is about. Why are there Saints? I suspect that, at least initially, Saints served a few purposes. Saints were well-known people whom the Church determined had lived exemplary lives. Thus, canonization actually had a theologically instructive purpose, at least in early days. Many of the earliest Saints were martyrs. It could be said of the martyrs that canonization was the reward for their sacrifice, although the more cynical undoubtedly would tend toward the argument that canonization was a way to placate the masses who may have feared for their lives on the basis of their faith.
Some Saints are patrons of certain people or things. For example, St. Jude is the patron saint of lost causes. St. Patrick is the patron saint of Ireland. And I believe St. Joseph is the patron saint of fathers.
As for Poptart's argument, it should be noted that the Catholic Church has never required anyone to seek intercession of the Saints, although it has taught that it is available of one who asks. Of course, from a theological point of view, all Christian faiths agree that there is nothing wrong with asking another living person to pray for you. Whether it is acceptable to ask a dead person to pray for you is a source of theological disagreement between Catholics and non-Catholic Christians.
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There is one mediator between God and man, and that is Jesus Christ.
If a person says to me, "I wish you well, poptart," I can hear those words and that's it.
If they wish me ill, I can hear those words and that's it too.
Karma .... ?
No such thing.
Prayers ... ?
If a believer prays to God for me, I'm all for it.
God honors and answers believer's prayers ..... that are offered in Jesus Christ's name.
........ not in someone's dead aunt's name.
There is a spiritual reality.
The Bible gives repeated warnings from God that man absolutely ought not engage in idol worship.
Reason being, doing so puts him directly into the influence from demons.
Harm is on the way.
Dead people are DEAD, and they can not pray.
If you are speaking to them, who do you think you are speaking to ... ?
If a person says to me, "I wish you well, poptart," I can hear those words and that's it.
If they wish me ill, I can hear those words and that's it too.
Karma .... ?
No such thing.
Prayers ... ?
If a believer prays to God for me, I'm all for it.
God honors and answers believer's prayers ..... that are offered in Jesus Christ's name.
........ not in someone's dead aunt's name.
There is a spiritual reality.
The Bible gives repeated warnings from God that man absolutely ought not engage in idol worship.
Reason being, doing so puts him directly into the influence from demons.
Harm is on the way.
Dead people are DEAD, and they can not pray.
If you are speaking to them, who do you think you are speaking to ... ?
