? for functional alcoholics

[Adelpiero]

He is complaining about a drink he got at t.g.i.o'malleys or whatever the fuck.

What the fuck is he expecting from it?

mr t, most of the alkies i know, drink hard stuff. not nightrain, md2020, thunderbird, boonemill, etc.

many drink jack n cokes or crown n coke. others drink expensive ,shitty tasting imports.


many believe the only drunks, are the bums chugging cheap wines or stag. very untrue!

[Dinsdale]

As usual, Dins, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about

You know.....


I'll just leave this at...


BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!


And call it good.


Alcoholism is a physiological condition.


Period.


EOS.


Hence, why the medical profession refgers to it as a "disease."


But, by all means, feel free to think whatever you like.


And yes...rates of alcoholism are very clearly linked to ethnicity. I'll give you a hint to get you started down the road to enlightenment -- Native Americans are born with alcoholism at approximately a 90% clip. Middle Eastern Jews are born with an alcoholism rate very close to 0%. This is because alcoholism is slowly being "bred out" of humans. Middle Eastern Jews have been consuming alcohol for thousands of years. Native Americans have been consuming alcohol for about 300.


But that's just coincedence, of course. Genetics and ethnicity have NOTHING to do with it.


You should really have some clue what you're talking about before you decide to ramble on about it.


To make a long, complicated story short -- alcoholism is a genetic condition that has to do with liver function. The common misnomer that people seem to have is in assuming that alcoholism is the only cause of excessive/problem drinking, which it very definitely is not.


Matter of fact -- I'm done with you. My final words on the subject are...I am right, and you are wrong.

Hope that clears things up for you. If not, I don't really care.


Educate yourself.


Wait...aren't you the guy that said Hep B was fatal? You'll excuse me if I continue to laugh at your knowledge of diseases.

[Adelpiero]

Educate yourselves, people. Statements like police officers and other people in professions with high levels of stress" are fucking asinine.

must not know many people in the police profession(oh, im sure you will say you know hundreds), i grew up the son of a police officer(protecting foofoo drinkers like bace from the bruthas), and police officers not only drank at rediculous rates, they would drink on the job, drink before, after, and anytime they could get their hands on it. 905's had drive up windows and gave the police free beer on many occasions, why not, noone robbed any in the districts they gave away free beer. Beer was easily accessable, and was easy to polish off many, while sitting behind a building waiting for calls. Shit, the stories my father tells me are hilarious, sad, but funny, when it came to cops being drunk and shit on, before, and after the job.

It was an escape from their shitty shift, shitty lives, shitty wives, and the shit they had to see, Which is why police officers have a high percentage of off'ing themselves. depression,alkie, the job add up to dangerous mix.


Luckily, my old man kept his drinking to a few with the guys, then home. Many of his friends were complete alkies(sun up to sundown).

[War Wagon]

Just because a guy doesn't go to the meetings or admit he's an alcoholic doesn't mean he isn't one. It's called denial.....part of being an alcoholic.

Ok, what I meant to say is that whether an alcholic openly admits that he indeed, is one, deep inside they know if they are or not. But yes, in order to get help for their condition, they are the only one who can say that they are. That's why I call it a condition that must be self-diagnosed.

Dins and yourself both make some very valid points about alchoholism, although you come at it from different angles. Din's believes it's genetic in nature, and you believe it's a personality trait, or as the AA honks call it, a "character flaw". Fuck that AA terminology, btw.

Hell, I don't know for sure either way. Could be some of both, but that doesn't really matter to me. What matters to me is how people overcome their "disease", if that's what it really is.

One thing that I think all 3 of us can agree on (even though this will pain Dins) is that for an alcoholic, 1 drink is too many and 100 isn't enough. Once they start drinking, they simply can't control how much they take, or their actions while under the influence.

[Tom In VA]

Isn't it funny I spout off at the mouth about shit I have no experience with ... fighting wars, running countries, coaching teams, etc.. etc.. and the ONE thing that I actually really do know and have first hand experience in ... I get a little shy.


Now I've been told that's alcoholic.



It's not my job to come in here and explain the ins and outs of alcoholism to the people on this board. It's not what it's here for. Actually, the truth is, that's my only job. "To stay sober and help another alcoholic achieve sobriety". If of course the alcoholic in question, wants to get sober.

Sharing my experience here, is tantamount to me running into a bar and trying to "save drunks" from themselves. I am not about that. It also opens me up to whole bunch of shit to people on this board who already know a little too much about me to begin with. It's not a case of "pearls to swine" as much as it's a case of "I don't feel like hearing it or opening myself up in that way".

Actually, everyone in here is correct about alcoholism. Even Mr. T's little blurb isn't all that untrue.

Whatever. If you think you might be then there's a solution, seek it out in your town. This board and the mirror might be able to offer you glimpses of the problem, I know it did for me, but the solution ain't here.

I believe I have a mental obsession .... that would be the "preoccupation" part .... and a physical allergy .... that would be the physiological part and it implies that my body doesn't respond normally to alcohol. I tried for years and years .... obsessed with the delusion that I could drink like a normal person ... hell even a normal heavy drinker .... I could not.

I also believe I am a human being with character flaws and weaknesses that need to be worked on and addressed. That makes me human because everyone has those.

What I will tell you is that I have spent the past 4.5 years of my life without a drink and I have yet to wake up in the morning and say "Man I wish had that drink the night before"

I still get "thirsty" every now and again, but through the grace of and of a few people who share the same desire to not drink; with their help I have found a life that is far beyond any I could imagine.

That's all I really have to say, don't know if it sheds any light or not, then again did anybody want any light shed on the matter ? Probably not.

The bottom line, my income rose throughout my drinking. My bottom, I chose because it was solid enough for me to plant my feet and look around. Perhaps one of those many "moments of clarity" a drunk gets on his way down.

Either way, there's two kind of alcoholics .. men and women. They're butchers, bakers, and Indian Chiefs(although the one I met just wanted you to believe he was an Indian chief), retired deputy police chiefs, former CIA ops, LRRPS .... this guy has a hell of a story in fact one of his stories of over in "Nam is on the net and has been referenced in several books, lawyers, cops, plumbers, former Pagan biker members .... and

IT guys with too much time on their hands and a compulsion to post on smack boards.

I obviously value the interaction that takes places on these boards or I wouldn't still be here posting after 7 years. I hope if any of you are alcoholic like me, you go and get whatever it is you need ... wherever that might be and are able to see that there is a hell of a life out there "after booze". Living life without ever taking another drink can be an overwhelming notion, ergo the whole "one day at a time". Shit I know I get thirsty every once in awhile still.

But I've yet to wake up in the morning and say "Whew, really wish I went out and got drunk last night" or "Whew, I fucked up by not drinking that shot of Jack Daniels" since I've stopped drinking.

There were numerous times waking up when I was drinking when it was ..... "Whew, didn't mean to drink that much last night, I didn't intend on getting drunk" or "Whew, I fucked up bad, got drunk and said some pretty shitty things to my wife when she was nagging me about drinking" or whatever. Then it's all like ....

"I'm sorry" and your family is like ... "Yes you are".

Today it's all like "You know I feel like I have my son back, I actually enjoyed hanging out with you son".

Fuck, my Dad and I didn't hang out and laugh for almost 20 years.

Hey man, it's all good. I'm not what I ought to be, and I'm not what I want to be, but I damn sure ain't what I used to be.

Suddenly I feel as if I'm suspended on the Catherine wheel, with that on the board, but if any of you got anything out of that, good. I know I did.

Good karma to you all.

[RadioFan]

Bace,

Yes.

[SaladTosser]

Tom, that's one of the best posts I've read. Ever. [Ali G] Much respect. [/Ali G]

[socal]

Much respect, Tom in VA. Keep enjoying those laughs with pops.

[velocet]

This book seems to agree with Dins.





I didn't know Tom's story. Damn dude.




velocet

[velocet]

Have you read the book, velo? If so, what's their "scientific evidence" that would support Dins' ethnicity theory? Dins' stats about Native Americans and Jews from the Middle East could be more rationally be attributed to cultural rather than ethnic causes.

Mace

Yeah, Dins' post reminded me of the book, I read it a while ago. Plus I wouldn't cite a source if I hadn't.
So ya had to make me go dig it up, FINE then.


In chapter 3, "What makes an alcoholic: predisposing factors" there is, on page 45, a chart showing ethnic groups, their time exposure (to alcohol), susceptibility to the disease and rate of alcoholism.

Group Time susceptibility rate

Jews and Italians 7000 yrs low low

Scandinavians, 1500yrs medium medium
Irish, French

N. American 300 yrs high high
Indians, Eskimos


The reason for this is explained as differing biochemical reactions to alcohol in the ethnicities studied. The studies cited to back this up are from these sources: the New England journal of medicine, the Canadian Medical association Journal, Science, and American Journal of Psychiatry.
The only thing I have against this book and its sources is the fact that its all pretty dated (early '80s, sources from the 70's). Research marches on, but maybe the principle has stood up to later testing.



velocet

[Tom In VA]

Mace,

When I was 19-20 or so my mother and grandfather asked me to go to a doctor about my drinking. I don't remember what kind of doctor it was, what I do remember is this. He mentioned "ethnicity" and told me that as I was of Irish ethnic background I had a higher percentage of having the alcoholic "thing" be it a gene or what. He also mentioned Native American Indians and African Americans.

Turns out he was right, in my case, although it took me 12 years or so to "get it".

I'm not so sure I disagree with claims that it's ethnic.

While I don't believe that it's being "bred out" of humans .... the case Dins' brings is very compelling. ? I think with today's information and support and more and more alcoholics seeking the help they need and getting it ..... they'll still pass the gene on if there is a gene. In the old days, alkies were destined to ugly death and existence. Anyone remember the scene from Caligula when he catches the drunk guard ? Nasty.

Part of my story, here I go again, more board fodder is in looking into why my wife and I weren't having children. She, has some issues, but when it came my turn I was told ....

"Your count is fine but there's some issues with the acrisome factor and the morphology of your sperm".

When I asked how I could correct that, the doctor's only question was .... "Are you a drinker ...."

To which my standard alcoholic response was ... "Oh I drink a few here and there, about one or two every couple of days".

I was told to lay off the sauce for three months and then go back for another test ....... that was in 2001.

Never went back and I didn't even make it a month, my alcoholic mind said "How many kids are conceived during drunken one night stands, this doctor is full of shit".

Bode Darwin ?


There's so much that is genetic that it would shock me if conclusive evidence were found that alcoholism isn't genetic. While habit and other social factors will play a part, the underlying theme, I believe is this odd physiological trait passed down through genetics. The alcohol, once in my system, would determine if I was to drink 5 or drink 25 beers. I knew heavy drinkers and I can see how they were not alcoholic even though at a time they might have consumed more than me, that night.


One other thing is that allergies, which is how the physiological aspect has been described to me is that abnormal reaction to something. I understand this. I was never allergic to pollen or almonds in my life, but I seem to have developed those allergies.

Alcoholism has been described as progressive and perhaps people aren't "born" alcoholic but born with a predisposition to develop that abnormal reaction and after a period of drinking, they cross the line over to alcoholism.

That I don't know, it doesn't matter. I know I crossed the line at some point and the only thing I know is I'm pretty sure I was drunk when I crossed over it.

Going back to the Middle Eastern people, one of my brothers has attended gatherings of our fellowship all over the world, including places like UAE. And I've met several Eastern Indian and Pakistani people. So it's a global deal and does not discriminate on race, even if data points out trends in ethnicity.

[Tom In VA]

P.S. Thanks for the kind words too, I wish I could claim I did something, I didn't .... not really. Desparation rather than virtue brought me to the point where I was willing to admit the booze got the best of me. I didn't put it down as much as it kicked my ass in a fair fight.

If I ever get a little down about not being to drink normally, I recall that scene in "Lethal Weapon" where Danny Glover tells his dying friend ....

"You got off light motherfucker".

I did and to hope to continue to, by not drinking.

[War Wagon]

Told ya' Tom knew something about alcoholism.

Rack you, ya' sorry bastard.... and RACK! me for dragging that out of you. You WILL help people with your experience. More than you know. Keep doing what you're doing, brah.

Me? I just popped another cold one... ahhh... that's some good shit. I haven't reached my bottom yet, and don't know if'n I ever will until it's 6 feet under.

Meanwhile, it's stay the course. Might as well enjoy this ride.

[Tom In VA]

It's cool. Like I said it's the only real "experience" I have to offer so that's the only reason I chimed in.

To me, it doesn't matter much, I got it. I'm also Irish, with a pinch of Italian, Bavarian and something else. But mostly Irish, one of them papists too .... lol

[War Wagon]

What's important is that you're doing something it...

One day at a time.

Congrats on the 4.5 years, but I hope that Tom realizes that sobriety is as tenuous as not swallowing pipe smoke.

[Atomic Punk]

Tom talked about his alcoholism and AA years ago. That issue of his past is what is on my mind every time he posts. I always think about his past and how AA is working for him. For that I never crack on him because alcohol affects people different ways.

I hit rock bottom in New Jersey as I realized I was fucking up everything and ALL of my problems were due to piss poor drunken decisions.

A buddy took me to an AA meeting and gave me the book. In the 1st chapter a doctor's take was what Tom has stated above. He equates the effects of alcohol between someone that can have a drink and shut it down versus an alcoholic that takes one drink and can't stop being like an "allergic reaction." The cause from what I remember is really unknown but there are risk factors.

I can talk about this because I am pretty damn sure many on this board are in denial about their own situations but would rather smack someone before coming correct. In this situation I, like Tom, don't give a shit what others think. This is real and challenging issue to many.

For me, it took me to live a tough year in New Jersey to either survive or quit. I still drink, but not nearly as much as I used to. My body has changed back to the way it was prior to my drunken Sophomore year of college.

Drunk driving:

I did it every day for years. I was just lucky as I drive like I am the most perfect technical driver in my mind... like flying an airplane scanning instruments, keeping my head on a swivel. I pride myself on my driving skills but if some asshole ever hit me... I would be caught and off to jail for ole zz.

I don't drive drunk anymore after hearing how many people I know have a DUI or 2 and even guys that admit it on these boards. I was lucky due to just focusing on driving.

Spermies: (from the Dinsatomy wiki page)

Tom as there are a few well-known homosexuals on this board, they now may be thinking their problem with procreation is because of their "acrosome" levels being too low also. Acrosome produces enzymes in the anterior (front/forward) part of the sperm head that "aids" penetration of the ova (female egg).

Anyway, back to the subject, I don't think anyone can pinpoint why from all of the aforementioned posts... it doesn't matter. What matters it destroys not only the alcoholic in denial, but those few remaining that care about that individual.

After seeing all kinds of people: rich, poor, blacks, whites, all types of backgrounds... man, you got me why it kicks some people's asses harder than it does others.

I DO remember that "rock bottom" day very vividly in New Jersey when I decided to get my shit together again. I'll never forget it. Do I still fuck up? You betcha. Do you that are about to break out the shit trolls on me because you are pussies? You betcha. Tom won't take the heat, but I will because I've smacked a whole host of these shitty losers in the past. I won't respond, and the shitbirds will chime in. I'm pretty sure I'll hear about it in December from a few reach-arounders.

Anyway Tom, Mace, Aldepiero, Dins, Wags, and... (Salad Tosser from his past shit that was pretty much what I went through), it is good to hear all of the opinions.

With this collective crowd of know-it-alls, it can be said that nobody can say WHY people are alcoholics. It is what it is and hopefully everyone can self-evaluate themselves and see if it effects their "off board" real lives.

[Tom In VA]

Good luck AP. I've met a few squids, subbies here and there and a few airedales, all walks of life.

As for me, the whole "maybe I could just have one" was always a lie. I never had one, ever.

Driving over the limit is like speeding. A very small percentage get caught. Those who get caught more than one time are probably doing it a hell lot more than your average bear and that might indicate a problem.

[Bizzarofelice]

Can we get this thread back to its original intent:
gin is super-duper yummy.

[Tom In VA]

Would you prefer to pay for expensive gin and get the cheap stuff ?

Or jailhouse gin ?

[Bizzarofelice]

Would you prefer to pay for expensive gin and get the cheap stuff ?

Or jailhouse gin ?

Sometimes I want to drink the nicey-stuff. In fact, if I'm getting gin its usually nicer stuff. Not that tanq is top of the top, but I can't fade the Congress in any way. Whiskey I don't care so much, and vodka I doun't touch at all.

Sometimes I feel like a really good drink. After a long day of doing the work that the president of the company won't do, I deserve it.

[Tom In VA]

And you do deserve it. You also deserve to get what you pay for and starving people deserve to eat something, women who don't want to kill their babies deserve babies, and the world deserves peace.

What were we talking about again ?



Oh, you like gin. You pay for good gin, you get cheap gin ... what to do.

a) Beat the wife
b) Beat the waiter/waitress
c) Burn the bar down
d) gyjo
e) Wipe cock on drapes
f) all of the above


OR

Go to the bar when it's not crowded and sneak in your own bottle of Tanqueray. Order the bar's Tanq.

Do a taste test. If there's a discrepency, call the bartender over. See what the manager says. If, like Mick, you get no satisfaction ....

I suggest you go the passive agressive route. Leave a steamer in the toilet AFTER you've clogged it with toilet paper.

You can avoid "jailhouse gin" this way.

Good luck.

[Biggie]

Good thread, I'd like to put my 2 cents in, and also offer a few thoughts about West Side Story and the Warriors and draw a few distinctions between the two:

1. Riff seems, to me, to be a lot more interested in dancing than fighting until the climactic rumble scene. And even then, he wasn't even supposed to be fighting, having selected Ice as his warrior. I mean, he's got Bernardo alone and trapped early on, and never lays a glove on him. Instead, he's leaping this-a-way and that.

2. I was baffled by Bernardo's opening salvo during the War Council. 'Nardo gets to make the first suggestion as to weapons, and I figured he would say either "Skin" or "Knives". Either shows strength - the former meaning, we're tougher than you and will kick your ass, and the latter indicating that you're not afraid of the rough stuff. But dude blurts out, "Rocks". Are you fucking kidding me? Don't do mushrooms before coming to war council. Fucking rocks? What are you, 10 years old? Jesus, B.

3. Maria and Tony are idiots, and deserved their brutal fate. If Maria would have just kept her fat mouth shut, Ice and Bernardo would have slugged it out, and maybe accomplished something. Instead, she (a) bullies Tony into breaking up the rumble (causing the death of her brother and her boyfriend's best friend), and (b) sends Anita to Doc’s to tell Tony that she would be like 5 minutes late (causing the death of her boyfriend). Of course Anita's going to be play-raped, that’s a given. And she's a little bit of a hothead, not to mention that her boyfriend just got murdered. Selfish and stupid move by the heroine.

4. Do you really think that the Jets are going to let the Sharks help carry Tony’s dead body out of the playground? Come on…

5. Action Boy is a fucking stud, pure and simple.

6. Rembrandt is a total pussy. Are you telling me that out of 120 members, plus affiliates, Rembrandt makes the top 9 just because of his spray-painting ability? We've seen his artwork, on the Warriors home turf special edition director's cut, and he's no Headhunter, not even a chowd103. Cowboy is also a pussy. I'd hate to see the other 111 vest-wearers.

7. The Riffs (no relation) and the Turnbulls are the only gangs that are worth a shit. The Hi-Hats and the Boppers are clearly populated by homosexuals, and there's way too much face-painting going on, generally.

8. Why were the Orphans so afraid of the burning car? Not only did they let the Warriors pass, they didn’t even follow them to the train station. It’s not like their parents needed them to come inside to brush their teeth and get their footies on, they’re ORPHANS for crying out loud. "You SEE, Warriors? You see what you get when you mess with the .... oh my God, the car's on fire. What do we do??!?!" Lame.

9. Props to Tom for conquering his Demon Deacons and negative props to Bace for the wife-beating thing. Unless he’s married to Maria.

[SG's Son]

Good thread, I'd like to put my 2 cents in, and also offer a few thoughts about West Side Story and the Warriors and draw a few distinctions between the two:

1. Riff seems, to me, to be a lot more interested in dancing than fighting until the climactic rumble scene. And even then, he wasn't even supposed to be fighting, having selected Ice as his warrior. I mean, he's got Bernardo alone and trapped early on, and never lays a glove on him. Instead, he's leaping this-a-way and that.

2. I was baffled by Bernardo's opening salvo during the War Council. 'Nardo gets to make the first suggestion as to weapons, and I figured he would say either "Skin" or "Knives". Either shows strength - the former meaning, we're tougher than you and will kick your ass, and the latter indicating that you're not afraid of the rough stuff. But dude blurts out, "Rocks". Are you fucking kidding me? Don't do mushrooms before coming to war council. Fucking rocks? What are you, 10 years old? Jesus, B.

3. Maria and Tony are idiots, and deserved their brutal fate. If Maria would have just kept her fat mouth shut, Ice and Bernardo would have slugged it out, and maybe accomplished something. Instead, she (a) bullies Tony into breaking up the rumble (causing the death of her brother and her boyfriend's best friend), and (b) sends Anita to Doc’s to tell Tony that she would be like 5 minutes late (causing the death of her boyfriend). Of course Anita's going to be play-raped, that’s a given. And she's a little bit of a hothead, not to mention that her boyfriend just got murdered. Selfish and stupid move by the heroine.

4. Do you really think that the Jets are going to let the Sharks help carry Tony’s dead body out of the playground? Come on…

5. Action Boy is a fucking stud, pure and simple.

6. Rembrandt is a total pussy. Are you telling me that out of 120 members, plus affiliates, Rembrandt makes the top 9 just because of his spray-painting ability? We've seen his artwork, on the Warriors home turf special edition director's cut, and he's no Headhunter, not even a chowd103. Cowboy is also a pussy. I'd hate to see the other 111 vest-wearers.

7. The Riffs (no relation) and the Turnbulls are the only gangs that are worth a shit. The Hi-Hats and the Boppers are clearly populated by homosexuals, and there's way too much face-painting going on, generally.

8. Why were the Orphans so afraid of the burning car? Not only did they let the Warriors pass, they didn’t even follow them to the train station. It’s not like their parents needed them to come inside to brush their teeth and get their footies on, they’re ORPHANS for crying out loud. "You SEE, Warriors? You see what you get when you mess with the .... oh my God, the car's on fire. What do we do??!?!" Lame.

9. Props to Tom for conquering his Demon Deacons and negative props to Bace for the wife-beating thing. Unless he’s married to Maria.

You fucking suck.

[SG's Son]

Tom talked about his alcoholism and AA years ago. That issue of his past is what is on my mind every time he posts. I always think about his past and how AA is working for him. For that I never crack on him because alcohol affects people different ways.

I hit rock bottom in New Jersey as I realized I was fucking up everything and ALL of my problems were due to piss poor drunken decisions.

A buddy took me to an AA meeting and gave me the book. In the 1st chapter a doctor's take was what Tom has stated above. He equates the effects of alcohol between someone that can have a drink and shut it down versus an alcoholic that takes one drink and can't stop being like an "allergic reaction." The cause from what I remember is really unknown but there are risk factors.

I can talk about this because I am pretty damn sure many on this board are in denial about their own situations but would rather smack someone before coming correct. In this situation I, like Tom, don't give a shit what others think. This is real and challenging issue to many.

For me, it took me to live a tough year in New Jersey to either survive or quit. I still drink, but not nearly as much as I used to. My body has changed back to the way it was prior to my drunken Sophomore year of college.

Drunk driving:

I did it every day for years. I was just lucky as I drive like I am the most perfect technical driver in my mind... like flying an airplane scanning instruments, keeping my head on a swivel. I pride myself on my driving skills but if some asshole ever hit me... I would be caught and off to jail for ole zz.

I don't drive drunk anymore after hearing how many people I know have a DUI or 2 and even guys that admit it on these boards. I was lucky due to just focusing on driving.

Spermies: (from the Dinsatomy wiki page)

Tom as there are a few well-known homosexuals on this board, they now may be thinking their problem with procreation is because of their "acrosome" levels being too low also. Acrosome produces enzymes in the anterior (front/forward) part of the sperm head that "aids" penetration of the ova (female egg).

Anyway, back to the subject, I don't think anyone can pinpoint why from all of the aforementioned posts... it doesn't matter. What matters it destroys not only the alcoholic in denial, but those few remaining that care about that individual.

After seeing all kinds of people: rich, poor, blacks, whites, all types of backgrounds... man, you got me why it kicks some people's asses harder than it does others.

I DO remember that "rock bottom" day very vividly in New Jersey when I decided to get my shit together again. I'll never forget it. Do I still fuck up? You betcha. Do you that are about to break out the shit trolls on me because you are pussies? You betcha. Tom won't take the heat, but I will because I've smacked a whole host of these shitty losers in the past. I won't respond, and the shitbirds will chime in. I'm pretty sure I'll hear about it in December from a few reach-arounders.

Anyway Tom, Mace, Aldepiero, Dins, Wags, and... (Salad Tosser from his past shit that was pretty much what I went through), it is good to hear all of the opinions.

With this collective crowd of know-it-alls, it can be said that nobody can say WHY people are alcoholics. It is what it is and hopefully everyone can self-evaluate themselves and see if it effects their "off board" real lives.

What a shit post from a worthless pos "human being".

Drove drunk every day? Off yourself now and do everyone a favor, Barney.

[Dinsdale]

OK, one more time for the slow people...


The human liver breaks alcohol down into a chemical known as acetaldehyde. Unchecked in the liver, acetaldehyde is basically a poison, and makes a person with a acetaldehyde-soaked liver physically ill(sup hangover). To counter this, the body/liver hits the acetaldehyde with an enzyme called aldehyde dehydrogenase(ALDH). This "neutralizes" the poisonous acetaldehyde, and allows your liver to piss away the byproducts.


Still following? Good.

But humans weren't neccessarily born with the ability to produce much ALDH, since in primitive times, the human body had little use for it. Then...along came alcohol. Over hundreds of years, each successive generation was born with an increased ability to produce higher quantities of ALDH, due to neccessity.

The longer a culture was exposed to alcohol consumption, the better that culture's ethnic group was able to crank up the ALDH. But along the way, a small percentage of the descendants didn't follow the progression, and weren't/aren't born with the ability to produce sufficient quantities of ALDH to be able to consume large amounts of alcohol without suffering the adverse æffects that the increased acetaldehyde.

See if you can follow...a person who can't quickly break down acetaldehyde with ALDH has a physical defect, which is classified as a "disease"...a disease known as "alcoholism."

A person is either born with the ability to correctly process alcohol, or they are not. It's an either/or proposition, and isn't open to subjective opinion.


Now, by no means are "real alcoholics" the only ones who are subject to the ill-æffects of heavy drinking...far from it. They're just the only ones who can accurately be referred to as "alcoholics."


But see, with each subsequent generation, a society's children evolve with a little tiny bit more ability to produce ALDH, and are therefore "breeding out" alcoholism with each generation. The Jews have had 4000 years to "breed out" this trait(or lack of), and ALDH "deficiencies" are all but eliminated. Native Americans have only been imbibing for 300 years or so, which hasn't been enough time/generations to make inroads towards higher ALDH production.

Which VERY CLEARLY supports the FACT that alcoholism is a physiological condition, and not a "cultural" or "pshychological" condition (although non-alcoholic chronic alcohol abuse certainly is psychological).



So, go ahead and "think" whatever you want...just know it isn't the truth.

And do you think I just pulled all of that info out of my ass/google, or do you think maybe I might have learned that shit in school? The same stuff my friend with the degree in alcohol maufacture/biochem learned at a prestigious university(and I've heard this same argument hashed out more than once in my day, which always results in the people with some education on the subject laughing at those who go all Mace and insist that their opinions are fact).




No, really....scientists/doctors have done massive amounts of research on the subject, and much of that info is there for the taking...which is probably a better idea than to hold on to antiquated mistruths on the subject.


And yes, I did get an "A" on the paper I wrote on the subject for those classes I took years ago. I'm sure I could come up with a textbook or two if I looked hard enough through my rubble.

[Tom In VA]

Good info Dins. A few questions.

How is it diagnosed in a medical facility ?

I'm very interesting in the "breeding out" aspect. Going Darwin, I'd be expecting that the gene for alcoholism is bred out by either the alcoholics inability to pass on the gene due to reasons I've stated, early death or confinement, or .... inability to get laid

[Dinsdale]

4. Do you really think that the Jets are going to let the Sharks help carry Tony’s dead body out of the playground?

Stay gold, Ponyboy.


And back to the subject of genetics and alcohol...


I'm 100% purebred English(except that one Scotsman a few generations back, but he was really really famous, so we give him a pass...well, that and because he's dead).

And as an "ethnic" English guy, you couldn't pay me to drink gin.


This proves conclusively that Bace is gay.

[Dinsdale]

How is it diagnosed in a medical facility ?

If'n I'm not mistaken, there is no reliable test to see if that aspect of liver function works correctly or not. But much of my knowledge on the subject is 15+ years old(because what I posted earlier is a long way from being anything new, which makes me just shake my head at the rampant ignorance on the subject).


But I don't believe they can test for ALDH production type stuff. I could be behind the times, though.



In that post, I also failed to mention the real nasty bitch behind the "acetaldehyde poisoning" -- with an alcoholic's lack of ALDH, the only effective way to purge the acetaldehyde from the liver....is by consuming more alcohol, which "pushes" the acetaldehyde through to make w3ay for more alcohol....and that's why alcoholism is such a bitch to overcome...the sickness is its own cure.

[Tom In VA]

Thanks again Dins. What "English" ethnicity are you ? Saxon ? Angle ? Jute ? Or kind of a blend of Anglo-Saxon-Pict-Celt ?

[velocet]

But humans weren't neccessarily born with the ability to produce much ALDH, since in primitive times, the human body had little use for it. Then...along came alcohol. Over hundreds of years, each successive generation was born with an increased ability to produce higher quantities of ALDH, due to neccessity.

That part looks suspiciously like Lamarckian acquired traits evolution.





velocet

[IndyGunClown]

Good thread, I'd like to put my 2 cents in, and also offer a few thoughts about West Side Story and the Warriors and draw a few distinctions between the two:

1. Riff seems, to me, to be a lot more interested in dancing than fighting until the climactic rumble scene. And even then, he wasn't even supposed to be fighting, having selected Ice as his warrior. I mean, he's got Bernardo alone and trapped early on, and never lays a glove on him. Instead, he's leaping this-a-way and that.

2. I was baffled by Bernardo's opening salvo during the War Council. 'Nardo gets to make the first suggestion as to weapons, and I figured he would say either "Skin" or "Knives". Either shows strength - the former meaning, we're tougher than you and will kick your ass, and the latter indicating that you're not afraid of the rough stuff. But dude blurts out, "Rocks". Are you fucking kidding me? Don't do mushrooms before coming to war council. Fucking rocks? What are you, 10 years old? Jesus, B.

3. Maria and Tony are idiots, and deserved their brutal fate. If Maria would have just kept her fat mouth shut, Ice and Bernardo would have slugged it out, and maybe accomplished something. Instead, she (a) bullies Tony into breaking up the rumble (causing the death of her brother and her boyfriend's best friend), and (b) sends Anita to Doc’s to tell Tony that she would be like 5 minutes late (causing the death of her boyfriend). Of course Anita's going to be play-raped, that’s a given. And she's a little bit of a hothead, not to mention that her boyfriend just got murdered. Selfish and stupid move by the heroine.

4. Do you really think that the Jets are going to let the Sharks help carry Tony’s dead body out of the playground? Come on…

5. Action Boy is a fucking stud, pure and simple.

6. Rembrandt is a total pussy. Are you telling me that out of 120 members, plus affiliates, Rembrandt makes the top 9 just because of his spray-painting ability? We've seen his artwork, on the Warriors home turf special edition director's cut, and he's no Headhunter, not even a chowd103. Cowboy is also a pussy. I'd hate to see the other 111 vest-wearers.

7. The Riffs (no relation) and the Turnbulls are the only gangs that are worth a shit. The Hi-Hats and the Boppers are clearly populated by homosexuals, and there's way too much face-painting going on, generally.

8. Why were the Orphans so afraid of the burning car? Not only did they let the Warriors pass, they didn’t even follow them to the train station. It’s not like their parents needed them to come inside to brush their teeth and get their footies on, they’re ORPHANS for crying out loud. "You SEE, Warriors? You see what you get when you mess with the .... oh my God, the car's on fire. What do we do??!?!" Lame.

9. Props to Tom for conquering his Demon Deacons and negative props to Bace for the wife-beating thing. Unless he’s married to Maria.

Jesus Christ! I thought I'd seen the full patheticness of this board. I know this is an over exxageration, but seriously your knowledge of the subject.

[Dinsdale]

What "English" ethnicity are you ?

Now you're making it complicated.

Not sure.

But, since the ancestors come from Cornwall(pre-Industrial-Revolution, before everyone and their brother moved to London), I'm guessing primarily Celtic. Although, Cornish people often describe their ethnicity as "Cornish," from what I'm told.

[Tom In VA]

A Celt by any other name.

[SaladTosser]

RACK this thread. I guarantee you that we are less than 2 pages away from forming an intervention group for bbqjones and ElvisMonster. There's a lot of love up in this bitch.

[ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2]

I know this is an over exxageration, but seriously your knowledge of the subject.




Last edited by IndyGunClown on Mon Mar 19, 2007 12:28 pm; edited 1 time in total

Let me get this straight... you went back and "corrected" this post to make it more cogent? Or... did this sentence actually make sense at one point and you didn't think it sounded stupid enough to suit your shit-trolling agenda?

[Biggie]

Let me get this straight... you went back and "corrected" this post to make it more cogent?

I think he's just ticked because he was rooting for Tony and Maria to make it, and now realizes how little they deserved his well-wishes.

Anyway, props again to Bace for kicking the shit out of his illiterate whore, and to Tom for battling the urge to cross the Balvenie river.

While we're on the subject of alcoholism and gang violence, I'd like to know which of these duos you would favor in a dance-off:

Fred and Ginger
The Washington Redskins Fun Bunch
Danny Zucco and Cha Cha
Patrick Swayze and Baby Jennifer Grey
the Goth kids on South Park
Van and IB
Vincent Vega and Mia Wallace

Yes, I realize John Travolta gets 2 nods, but what can I say? I'm a huge Oprah fan.

[Dinsdale]

When you're a Tard
You're a Tard all the way
From your first NoCal slap
To your thread-killing ways




Oh I like to be with the Pizza Man
Toppings are free for the Pizza Man
Fags like to be in the Pizza Man
For a small fee in the Pizza Man


There's a place for us
Somewhere, a place for us
Playstation nights and Natty to share
Somewhere

There's a time for us
Someday, a time for us
Subsidized abortions with fetuses to spare
Time to drink, credit cards to snare
Someday

[Bizzarofelice]

rack somedins

[The Whistle Is Screaming]

rack somedins

twice

[Atomic Punk]

Bace, you needs to get some Tanqueray. It's smooth and you don't need to add Vermouth. The thing is, I have no idea what that stuff tastes like as I don't drink hard alcohol.

When you are spinning after Jack Daniels and Coke in the dorms at the University of Oklahoma... puking all over the place, and your buddies are all passed out either in the halls or on the floors of their rooms/cells.... then it was a choice to stay away from the quick experience. That was something I didn't like.

Now for the chemistdales here, I like beer but not hard alcohol. Hard stuff kicks in too quickly. I drink iced down Keystone Light because it's practically mineral water with a little bit of booze. As all of you can tell when I really KMOA with fucked up posts, after awhile it kicks in and turns me into a mean SOB... which is opposite of what I'm really like. (BTW, I correctly predicted a shit troll would chime in after me in this thread).

Both of my parents came from broken homes where alcohol broke up each of their families. My mom was like Adrian from the original Rocky movie where drunken Paulie threw out the turkey dinner.

To this day, she bags on her kids to not become like what they went through. Well, her kids still drink, but they all know their limitations. I learned my limitations when the concept of survival came into play.

As a self ass-kicking moron in NJ, I asked Y2K to help me get back home so I can can do what it is I'm supposed to do. I'm thinking it was a burden on him as I have the IN with American Airlines. He fucking has a blast on that trip also while I'm worrying he's going through hell to get to Newark.

This is kind of a ramble on, but really isn't. I've never appreciated simple things when I "decided" to not let alcohol control me. I love drinking, and that's just smething I accept. Knowing what it can do to me and others is why I keep it in check.

The pure alcoholic will just drink non-stop. Maybe THAT's a disease but in my situation I think it's just a comfortable habit to abuse the stuff. When I hear bullshit about definitions of alcoholics from the frauds on TV, I remind myself of the religious hypocrites that beg for money and are involved with money scams and infidelity.... all while making YOU the listener/viewer feel guilty about yourselves. It's total manipulation.

The biggest thing I did for MYself, is to admit to ME that I'm powerless against this substance. It is an evil bastard that tries to act like your friend, but when looking back at my past... it has kicked my ass.