Questions on a few kitchen items

[indyfrisco]

it has begun.

[ppanther]

No worries, pp. The rest of us got it.

That's cool... mostly I just wanted to make fun of his small town grocery store.

[indyfrisco]

This was said.

I'd still like proof, but like I said, I could be wrong... I've never looked at my knives under a microscope.

Goobs gave proof then this was said.

I still wouldn't call my knives serrated, though, even if they do have microscopic teeth. Mostly because a 'serrated' knife already has a widely accepted meaning.

Still didn't see the "I was wrong" post. Maybe it is coming. I'll readily admit that I had no f'in clue that a chef's knife was, technically, serrated.

However, nowhere did I say the common chef's knife SHOULD be referred to as serrated.

[Ken]

frisco, would you just step back for a freakin' moment and take in the stupidity of your platform, in all its glory, on this issue?

[ppanther]

This was said.

I'd still like proof, but like I said, I could be wrong... I've never looked at my knives under a microscope.

Goobs gave proof then this was said.

I still wouldn't call my knives serrated, though, even if they do have microscopic teeth. Mostly because a 'serrated' knife already has a widely accepted meaning.

Still didn't see the "I was wrong" post. Maybe it is coming. I'll readily admit that I had no f'in clue that a chef's knife was, technically, serrated.

However, nowhere did I say the common chef's knife SHOULD be referred to as serrated.

Um.... hi, Indy? Trouble following along? When I said "I still wouldn't call my knives serrated, even if they do have microscopic teeth" I was sort of acknowledging that it seems they DO have them. I was simply stating that describing them as "serrated" is a bit misleading. But you know that. Or at least, I assume you do, even though you now technically wish to describe visibly straight blades as "serrated".

It's cool, Indy. We don't have to be on the same page about this.

[indyfrisco]

A'ight. I guess I misunderstood your point. I guess I was wrong. See, not hard to do.

[Dinsdale]

I'm going to have to go ahead and RACK Goob's inter-forum smack.


Funny stuff, and perfectly timed. The "mostly used to cut butter" put it over the top.

[Atomic Punk]

I guess I'm not "^^^ get's it" with the difference between santoku and granton. Maybe it's because I don't understand what a chef's knife is even though they seem to have all kinds of variations.

Are santoku and granton definitions of the edge or the knife? If it they describe the edge, then I'll understand. From the pictures from the links, the edges look similar so that is why I'm confused about the knife terminology.

I never thought I'd see a Food Forum topic turn into some funny smack.

[Dinsdale]

I never thought I'd see a Food Forum topic turn into some funny smack.

There's been flamage in here before...

But I've never seen it twisted into "the SEC are pussies" smack. That was beautiful.

[indyfrisco]

But I've never seen it twisted into "the SEC are pussies" smack. That was beautiful.

Agree. Rack Goobs, the old fucker, for that. Great timing.

[Headhunter]

This reminds me of the good ole RTT cooking forum.

Killer Chocolate sauce anyone?


Ok, so I fucked up when I called the Santoku serrated. I think that's the nexus of the confusion.

I only own 1 "serrated" knife. Which is my bread knife. All my other knives have a smoth edge which contains "micro-serrations" to make the knife sharp.

Am I super anal about what I do with my knives? Yes. Will a plastic board KILL them? probably not. But neither will cutting through the cryo vac plastic on a meat, but I'd shit my pants (s'up rog?) and scream if I saw someone doing that with my knife.


Point is, I'm very careful about what I do with my knives, and a wooden cutting board is the kindest surface I can use.


And RACK the smack in the cooking forum. Good stuff.

[ppanther]

Am I super anal about what I do with my knives? Yes. Will a plastic board KILL them? probably not. But neither will cutting through the cryo vac plastic on a meat, but I'd shit my pants (s'up rog?) and scream if I saw someone doing that with my knife.

OHMYGOSH. Me too. Big time. My husband learned to always cut on cutting boards and to ONLY cut food EARLY. Yeah I doubt the cellophane is going to do any real damage, it's just one of those things. Like fingernails on a chalkboard. One thing, though... he had "OK" knives before we got married. He thought they were fine. I would tell him that my knives make chopping a pleasure, not a chore. He kinda scoffed.

Not too long ago, he said something like "these knives are GREAT!!"... it's hard to understand just how great good knives are until you actually USE them.

Just please only use them on food and DO NOT USE THEM TO CUT ON A PLATE.

My "original" Chef's knife is 3.5 years old and is just about ready to have its first sharpening. *sigh*

[Headhunter]

Mine is 4 years old, and doesn't need to be sharpened at all.


Time to rethink the plastic cutting boards?


My mother-in-law has a glass cutting board. I'd rather run my knife over with a lawn mower than to put it on that thing.


Of course my father-in-law sharpens their knives with a bench grinder. I throw up a little in my mouth every time I see him do that. But oh, well. it's his $29.99 set of knives he fucking up!


I was helping at a company BBQ of my wife's a few years ago, and brought my knives with me. Her boss was cutting brisket with an electric knife. I pulled out my 10 inch carving knife (sharp as a razor) and proceeded to make him look like a punk. I sliced up 5 briskets to his two. All his employees were giving him shit, because he had been bragging about his electric knife before I showed up. Good times. The wife was fairly pleased with the whole punking as well. Don't fuck with a man and a good knife.

[Atomic Punk]

I was just bumping around the website and came across what looks like a starter set by Emeril's knives.

Is that a good price and what might be considered essential that's missing?

[Headhunter]

Wusthof makes good quality knives, and $164 is a really good price for a quality 10pc set of knives. That being said, I have no knowledge of the quality of the emeril line of wusthof knives. I don't know what a comparable knife would be, so making a conclusion that it's a good deal isn't quite that easy.


I will say that I spent almost $400 on my 10 pc set of Henkel 4 stars. So where does the $200 dollars go? I'm guessing they aren't at the same level of quality. They are probably top end "home kitchen" type of knives that are expected to last 10 years or so. Probably not a bad entry point into the world of quality knives.

I received the emeril line of cookware several years ago as a X-Mas present, and kind of feel the same way about them. Pretty good overall quality, but just cracking the surface of quality cookware. I still use some of them (the pots) but the skillets don't hold up over time as well. I prefer my calphalon skillets.


So as far as a recommendation? I'd go find a quality cutlery store that sells this and other brands, and talk to them. They've probably got a much better handle on what the overall quality is of these knives.

[Goober McTuber]

AP,

I think $164 sounds like a very good price for a set of knives like that. You can easily spend a little over $100 for a comparable set of knives from say, Analon. But I wonder how much of that $164 represents Kelvin Sampson’s name being on them.

We no longer have a store dedicated solely to cutlery in this town, but I’d go check out Bed Bath & Beyond. See what they have for sets of quality cutlery like Wüsthof or Henckels. Amazon.com has a 9-piece four star Henckels set for $339.99.

If you decide to go with a lesser brand like Chicago Cutlery, you’ll pay about half as much, and depending on how serious you are about cooking, they may serve you well enough. Just stay away from the sets with wooden handles.

[King Crimson]

rather than buying a set of knives....Henckels are fine, but there are a lot of equally good knives on the market now...i'd get a solid santoku or euro traditional 8" chef's knife and a couple utility knives to start out with. i think Henckel's are generally too heavy and mostly overpriced compared to the value on the market for other knives. my old kitchen set from my restaurant days are some Mondial Henckels knockoffs (same knife, made in Brazil for half the cost); 10", 8", paring, utility/boning, etc.....and if you let them lose an edge.....you better have a cutlery store with a wheel to put the primary edge back on.

and while i'll cop to it bigtime, i collected pieces of All-Clad for a time and due to the price was a bit tentative to use them for a while like the all out hoss mothers they are.....and treated them like objects of art or something. until oyu have the money to drop the coin and get what you REALLY want....you can mix and match quality stuff for much less just by watching sales at the department stores (esp. around X-mas) or dropping into B,B, and Beyond every once in a while. additionally, when it's time to get the big set.....you've tried a lot of brands.

in the interim, get stuff you aren't afraid to use. and use the hell out of them. that's what they are for.

i really dig the knives Global makes.

[Atomic Punk]

Great advice from all and I appreciate it. ppanther said earlier about having a good knife makes the experience more pleasant.

I've learned that asking people tha know more than me (which is pretty much everyone) is better than going out and fucking up.

I don't see $400 being spent on great knives as being a bad thing. Right now, getting something that is cheaper yet won't last as long is fine. I am very weary of getting a good set and not using them correctly. K Crimson brought up a good point about using the hell out of them.

Kelvin Sampson knife set? hahahahaha That's good!

I see HH working here... so that leads me to say that HH knows a bit about this and then obviously cutting boards. If those blades are to stay sharp, then whatever HH says about cutting boards is prolly spot on.

Okay, so I'll go down to BB&B this week and see what they have. I'll be looking for a decent cutting board but not something I'll create an alter for. I'm thinking somewhere around 24"x18". I've been hearing bamboo from the forum members so far. Is my pine block from the Chinese shop in San Fran wong? <-- bad racist They say just to wash it off with warm soapy water before and after usage and it's all good. I do have an awesome clever that is very bone crushing heavy from the same place.

Not going to buy just yet, because I'm currently looking for an upgraded place to live. Just getting good info from those in the know in advance.

memo to self for a serious thread on starter's kitchen essentials

[Dinsdale]

What, do you guys think I make this shit up?

PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) - Portland is relatively well-known as a business hub for footwear and open-source software. Largely under the radar, though, is another industry for which the metropolitan area has become a center of gravity: the making and marketing of knives.

"Portland has become the knife capital of the world," says Jeff Goddard, director of sales and marketing for Tualatin-based Kershaw Knives. "It used to be Seki City, Japan, or Solingen, Germany - which are still centers for cutlery - but Portland has really become the industry hub for sporting and utility knives."

More than one in four pocketknife companies nationwide - nine of 35 - call the Portland area home. The knives they produce range from tactical blades for emergency and military use, to artisan knives for collectors, to multi-tools with pliers and bottle openers for the everyday consumer.

The multi-tool portion of the industry is dominated by Portland companies. A study commissioned by Coast Cutlery and conducted by Chicago-based Sales Reach Market Research found that Leatherman Tools, Gerber Legendary Blades and Coast Cutlery - all based locally - produce almost 80 percent of the multipurpose tools sold nationwide and account for $256 million in retail sales annually.

More than 1,200 people in the Portland area draw paychecks from local knife companies, and Portland will host an industry trade show in September. The knife cluster can't compete with Nike, Adidas and Columbia Sportswear in terms of size or impact, but it's welcome in a region that tends to be dominated by small businesses.

The question is: Why Portland?

In 1919, as Portland's trademark Craftsman style homes were transitioning to Tudor, Coast Cutlery opened in downtown Portland.

"We were the first," says David Brands, president of Coast Cutlery since 1986. "And then the others spun off of us and spun off of each other."

Coast Cutlery started as a distributor for knives, but now manufactures its own brand plus private-label pocketknives for Eddie Bauer Holdings Inc. and Columbia Sportswear Co.

Gerber Legendary Blades was next, opening in 1939. From there, Oregon entrepreneurs forged four more knife companies over 63 years, three directly from Gerber's ranks and one from Gerber spinoff Kershaw Knives.

Meanwhile, Portland engineer Tim Leatherman started production on a new invention of his own: the Pocket Survival Tool. The tool revolutionized the utility knife industry and launched Leatherman Tool Group in 1983.

Knife-part suppliers and machining companies sprouted up to feed the growing demand for local vendors.

"Now that a lot of knife manufacturing vendors are here, it's actually attracted other companies to move here," says Jeff Goddard, director of sales and marketing for Tualatin-based Kershaw Knives. "We use the same companies to anodize our blades or coat our products, supply our screws and springs, heat-treat our blades - and even wholesale our products."

Enter two more companies, both from Oregon's southern neighbor.

"I looked at a variety of areas, on the East Coast, Colorado, Idaho and here, before deciding to come here in 1990 from Los Angeles," says Les deAsis, founder of Benchmade Knife Co. "It has all the required services, terrific quality of life and a very capable vendor base. It's also a great place to learn to deal with global competition."

Benchmade, now a household name, was then a small startup, which had its own limitations before coming to Portland.

"In L.A., we had to rely on large vendors - the heat-treating facilities, grinding companies and machining companies we needed. But when they got a big order from their larger aerospace and military defense customers, we had unintentional delays due to our company being small," deAsis recalls. "Here, with all the other vendors, they took notice."

The Portland area is also home to artisans able to hand make high-end knife add-ons, from mother-of-pearl handles to inlaid wood and stone. Assisted by a move from California to McMinnville, William Henry Knives' designer Matt Conable says he's now sending work to craftspeople in Clackamas, Aurora, McMinnville and Yamhill.

Portland also boasts another advantage for this industry.

"It's a port city, so there's value in that also," says Rod Bremer, president of Wilsonville-based Columbia River Knife and Tool. "The port's not a make-or-break deal as far as staying in Portland, but it's meaningful since we import all of our products."

From there, the supply chain snakes on. Companies in Portland say it's easier to break into big-name, but locally based, retailers such as Joe's and REI.

B.G. Eilertson, merchandise manager for Joe's, agrees.

"A lot of business is interpersonal," Eilertson says. "These people are almost like neighbors now. We've seen them grow, and we have good relationships with them. That's a plus for us."

It doesn't hurt that there's a strong consumer base for knives in the Northwest. Portland-based military surplus and outdoor store Andy & Bax sees a steady stream of rafters, hunters, anglers, campers, hikers and military, medical and law enforcement personnel come through its doors, many searching for the perfect utility knife.

Knives take up just a smidgen of floor space, but make up "probably 5 percent" of its sales, says Tom Lageson, a knife buyer for Andy & Bax. Most of the knives it stocks are from Portland-area companies.

"It's nice when someone buys a knife to know that if they ever have an issue with the warranty, they can get in a car and drive on out there," Lageson says. "It's a nice selling point."

Sporting and utility knives certainly aren't the only outdoor-related products that call Portland home. But they represent an ever-increasing portion of the area's business profits.

"If you look at other companies related to this industry, like Columbia Sportswear and Norm Thompson, there's also a lot of passion for where we use our products," says Juli Warner, corporate communications specialist for Leatherman.

"Whether you're going hunting or skiing or biking or climbing, it's all right here," she says. "I think that's why we're able to draw a lot of excellent people to work here and people who have enthusiasm about the product. Because here is where they work and play."

Unrack the newswriter for figuring this out about 20 years late.

But on a serious note, from what my Knife-Capital dwelling ass has seen, Kershaw makes outstanding kitchen knives. Not like Saladmaster(non-U&L bastards), but decent stuff for the price.

BTW - Gerber (right up the street from me) pretty much became corporate junk right around 1986 or thereabouts, when Fiskars bought them out. I don't even know if Benchmade even makes kitchen knives, but they make about the sweetest automatic/switchblades and butterfly(dorky) knives you'll ever see. Although I believe switchblades/automatics aren't legal where most of you live. I have a buddy who always used his big auto for a kitchen knife...doing it up U&L style.

[King Crimson]

yeah, but the U&L has to live that American Bistro cunt, Caprial. she sucks.

[Dinsdale]

I assume that's a cooking show?

I was trying to manly this thread up.

I see you prefer a different direction for it.

[Goober McTuber]

She looks plenty manly to me: