How to end the War in the Middle-East

Atomic Punk · Post by **Atomic Punk** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 8:34 pm

This thread may be moved at some point and I'm not into politics or talking politics because of the corruption makes it futile and all....

Why are we in Iraq?

To settle a score but didn't define who we are really fighting. Saddam was a bad guy but wasn't the REAL problem. The real problem is money flow. It's always been that way, but when alternative energy is smacked down as an idea then the world loses and the 1% with the cayshe wins. Guys like mvscal are studious, but deep down know that big money is the root of all evil and it has been spoken eons ago.

Right now we are fucked! If we pull out of the middle-least, we invite state-sponsored terrorism into this country We have to define the enemy... and it ain't happening. The "enemy" is state sponsored" terrorism from Syria, Iran, and Korea... and McDonalds, New Jersey, and the King of Prussia, PA Yeeeeeeaaaaahhhh!

Anyway, when you lose a family member to this bullshit war that we cannot win because the CIC won't call out the radical islam for what it is... then what the fuck am I suppossed to do?

Get a shit troll from Canatard to respond like Martard and her minions? WTF do we do? I don't want one single 17 y/o to sign up again for the US military until we define our enemy and state WHO is going to DIE as a consequence. I want ALL US troops out of there and I'll keep sawed off shot gun under my bed if someone gets froggy with my redneck ass.

I ask this stays in this forum for a bit and it can be moved. I was a combat officer and would gladly go to jail for disagreeing with the idiots in charge not going ancient Chinese Tzu on those that are predicted to to go to Ghena.... the Jews get reconciled, and cats and dogs living with each other.

Meltdown complete. Pass the platos, por favor.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 8:53 pm

Atomic Punk wrote:I ask this stays in this forum for a bit and it can be moved.

Moved...yeah, that's the ticket.

"TROTS" has a nice ring to it...

JCT · Post by **JCT** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:02 pm

WAR Drunk by noon!

Shlomart Ben Yisrael · Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:28 pm

You speak much truth, AP.

Understand that radical Islam isn't the global menace that the State Department and defense contractors make it out to be.

Al Queda ain't the Soviet Union. Not now, not ever.

Atomic Punk · Post by **Atomic Punk** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:57 pm

First time I agree with Marty. I understand the power and pawn thing. Right now, we have the most pathetic and pussified military "leadership" in place. These worms that have made it to the next level are spineless worms and they bend over to further their shit careers. Now they are leading youngsters into war while they sit back and fumble the Rubic's cube out of "harm's way."

Shlomart Ben Yisrael · Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:39 pm

Bitchslapping the CIA on a world stage was a colossal mistake for the Bush Administration.

You don't air out your national security/foreign surveillance laundry in front of the neighbours.

Rich Fader · Post by **Rich Fader** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:01 am

Martyred wrote:You speak much truth, AP.

Understand that radical Islam isn't the global menace that the State Department and defense contractors make it out to be.

Al Queda ain't the Soviet Union. Not now, not ever.

You know, you're absolutely right. The Russians never hijacked our commercial airliners and used them as missiles on our commercial and government buildings. Not once.

Shlomart Ben Yisrael · Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:34 am

Rich Fader wrote:
Martyred wrote:You speak much truth, AP.

Understand that radical Islam isn't the global menace that the State Department and defense contractors make it out to be.

Al Queda ain't the Soviet Union. Not now, not ever.
You know, you're absolutely right. The Russians never hijacked our commercial airliners and used them as missiles on our commercial and government buildings. Not once.

My mistake. You can commence SHITTING YOUR FUCKING PANTS because some turban sporting bad-ass with a
boxcutter has sore feelings.

You fucking coward. That's what you tremble in fear over?
Move to a well decorated flat over a gay bath house with Sissy-Roo, you faggot.

RadioFan · Post by **RadioFan** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:50 am

Toddowen wrote:Just answer me this.....Why hasn't Boston, the Greatest American Band, ever played Iraq?

Why, if Al Kaydah ever saw what awsomeness was produced by them, they would instantly know that they wouldn't stand a chance against this country, just by observing Boston's technical prowess.

It's shamefull that Boston hasn't even placed one finger one one fret to help our troops overseas, and that's precisely why I loathe them.

Dude, you must be a closet fan. You've referenced Boston far more than anyone else on thise board since the one thread was started about Brad Delp's death.

Just pull the trigger and be done with it.

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:10 pm

Martyred wrote:Bitchslapping the CIA on a world stage was a colossal mistake for the Bush Administration.

You don't air out your national security/foreign surveillance laundry in front of the neighbours.

Agreed. If anything, it's at least a clue as to how much of a gulf exists between the Bush Administration and our "intelligence" - that they would place a political disagreement ahead of the identity of a CIA operative, and feel justified in outing that operative publicly.

What a fucking shambles.

Smackie Chan · Post by **Smackie Chan** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:25 pm

PSUFAN wrote:how much of a gulf exists between Bush and "intelligence"

Roughly the distance from St. Pete to Veracruz.

Tom In VA · Post by **Tom In VA** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:58 pm

PSUFAN wrote:that they would place a political disagreement ahead of the identity of a CIA operative, and feel justified in outing that operative publicly.

Did I miss something ? As far as "word on the street" around here is, Valerie Plame's identity was being outed by ..... her husband .... Joe Wilson the guy that likes to drop names and claim knowledge .... he doesn't have.

But link me up to where the Bush Admin. has been charged and found guilty of what you claim please.

Bizzarofelice · Post by **Bizzarofelice** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:53 pm

so did we solve the war here, or is this posturing just like the politicians posture, but on a dorky internets level?

Tom In VA · Post by **Tom In VA** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:59 pm

I don't think it's solved Bace. I don't think it will get solved. Dubya is done and what remains to be seen is who the American people are going to call in from the bullpen to close, Hillary, Obama, etc... etc...

Either way, don't be too shocked if after the next President is elected, something else really nasty happens which will require an extension of the war .... there ....

Or worst .... here.

Bizzarofelice · Post by **Bizzarofelice** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 3:20 pm

Tom In VA wrote:I don't think it's solved Bace. I don't think it will get solved. Dubya is done and what remains to be seen is who the American people are going to call in from the bullpen to close, Hillary, Obama, etc... etc...

Either way, don't be too shocked if after the next President is elected, something else really nasty happens which will require an extension of the war .... there ....

Or worst .... here.

So I should be all fearful and spend a bunch of money on duct tape to secure my house from attacks which have never happened, but if by chance they do I should be 100% ready?

thanks in advance. I'll stop living and start trembling.

Tom In VA · Post by **Tom In VA** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 3:47 pm

Bizzarofelice wrote:
Tom In VA wrote:I don't think it's solved Bace. I don't think it will get solved. Dubya is done and what remains to be seen is who the American people are going to call in from the bullpen to close, Hillary, Obama, etc... etc...

Either way, don't be too shocked if after the next President is elected, something else really nasty happens which will require an extension of the war .... there ....

Or worst .... here.
So I should be all fearful and spend a bunch of money on duct tape to secure my house from attacks which have never happened, but if by chance they do I should be 100% ready?

thanks in advance. I'll stop living and start trembling.

I don't know about all that, it just seems each Administration gets to face some crisis and that the magnitude of those calamities are on an upward trend.

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:34 pm

Tom In VA wrote:
Did I miss something ?

Apparently, you did - Plame was outed as a CIA operative by the Bush Administration.

Tom In VA wrote: link me up to where the Bush Admin. has been charged and found guilty of what you claim please.

You're right, Tom - O.J. IS INNOCENT.

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:38 pm

Wait, wait..we'll get to that next. Tom's still arguing that the Bush Administration didn't out her.

Tom In VA · Post by **Tom In VA** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:44 pm

PSUFAN wrote:Wait, wait..we'll get to that next. Tom's still arguing that the Bush Administration didn't out her.

If you have evidence that Fitzgerald does not have, I think it's your duty to come forward.

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:46 pm

Link to where I asserted that?

My point was that it shows you how much of a gulf exists between the two - where they feel justified in acting counter to the CIA, even to the extent that they out operatives, basically ending their effectiveness.

Tom isn't convinced that they were the ones that outed her. Is that how you feel as well?

Or are you skipping ahead to where we debate whether they were justified in doing so?

Tom In VA · Post by **Tom In VA** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:52 pm

PSUFAN wrote: Tom isn't convinced that they were the ones that outed her.

Neither is Patrick Fitzgerald. Are you suggesting you can do his job better than he can AND that you have evidence that he does not ?

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:02 pm

mvscal wrote:Claims of Plame's alleged effectiveness are also dubious at best. After all, it was her decision to send her halfwit husband to Africa in the first place.

Link?

titlover · Post by **titlover** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:32 pm

BSmack wrote:
mvscal wrote:Claims of Plame's alleged effectiveness are also dubious at best. After all, it was her decision to send her halfwit husband to Africa in the first place.
Link?

she admitted it, cunthole.

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:36 pm

Neither is Patrick Fitzgerald.

Bah - disingenuous at best.

In the same way that few folks debate whether OJ is guilty, despite what occurred in court, few are debating whether someone in the Bush Administration outed Plame.

You know it, and I know it. Therefore, let's move on to a more interesting debate, that cause being advanced by mvscal.

Wilson:

-had previously traveled to Niger on behalf of the CIA
-had good relations with the PM and the former Minister of Mines

I'm wondering why you might think that he wasn't a natural choice? Was that because you didn't like his conclusions, or the reaction that the Bush Administration had to his conclusions?

Plame's effectiveness, in my view, was solid - she recommended a qualified person for the mission to Niger. He came back with the facts. The Bush Administration didn't like the result, and they've been spinning it (with your tireless help) ever since.

There's no part of this that remains hazy. They sent Wilson to get a specific result, he got the facts instead, they didn't like that, so they lied to the American People about what Wilson found. Then, when Wilson cried foul, they retaliated by outing his wife, endangering her, her contacts, the CIA, and the American People. That's what happened, regardless of what they've been able to do in court.

Meanwhile, Dick Cheney hasn't even called Scooter Libby to thank him yet...

LTS TRN 2 · Post by **LTS TRN 2** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:49 pm

Bottom line, ditto-babs, is that Wilson was ACCURATE in his assessment--NO YELLOWCAKE SALES..

The rest--Cheney 'n Chimp's utterly corrupt ignoring of this intelligence while blatantly lying about WMD's and Al Qaeda connections--is history. And these are treasonous HANGING CRIMES by the (unelected) administration.

Novak, perhaps the most vile and loathsome of the neocon ZioNazi warfreaks, should have been waterboarded immediately.

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:50 pm

You're completely missing the point.

For the moment, let's say your evaluation of Wilson's approach and result is accurate.

Bush's State of the Union address used Wilson's findings in spite of that! Wilson cried foul, and his wife was outed in retaliation.

Tom In VA · Post by **Tom In VA** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:50 pm

PSUFAN wrote:
Neither is Patrick Fitzgerald.
Bah - disingenuous at best.

In the same way that few folks debate whether OJ is guilty, despite what occurred in court, few are debating whether someone in the Bush Administration outed Plame.

You know it, and I know it.

No, I don't KNOW it. And apparently, neither do you. If had evidence and a case, you would bring it. If there's a case, let's make one. Remember, in civil court, OJ was found culpable. Rove, Cheney, Bush ... have yet to be tried for violating the law. Maybe because they didn't or maybe because there's no evidence .... who knows .... I know YOU do not know. Suspecting is one thing KNOWING, is different altogether. I'd like to see what the emporor is wearing up close before I make an assertion, thank you.

I'm curious to see what else you *wink* *wink* *nudge* *nudge* "know" .... do you have any idea of what kind of truth and how deep justice was obstructed by Sandy Berger ?

Do tell PSUSWAMI

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:50 pm

mvscal wrote:
The former ambassador’s wife suggested her husband for the trip to Niger in February 2002. The former ambassador had traveled previously to Niger on behalf of the CIA, also at the suggestion of his wife, to look into another matter not related to Iraq. On February 12, 2002, the former ambassador’swife sent a memorandum to a Deputy Chief of a division in the CIA’S Directorate of Operations which said, “[m]y husband has good relations with both the PM [prime minister] and the former Minister of Mines (not to mention lots of French contacts), both of whom could possibly shed light on this sort of activity.’’ This was just one day before the same Directorate of Operations division sent a cable to one of its overseas stations requesting concurrence with the division’s idea to send the former ambassador to Niger.

http://www.gpoaccess.gov/serialset/creports/iraq.html

Of course you're leaving out the part where she was asked to send said memo.

In fact, she did not have the authority to send Joe Wilson anywhere save the Quik Mart to get a gallon of milk and a loaf of bread.

LTS TRN 2 · Post by **LTS TRN 2** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 6:07 pm

Gonzalez, Rove, Wolfowitz.....who's next?

LTS TRN 2 · Post by **LTS TRN 2** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 6:07 pm

PSUFAN wrote:You're completely missing the point.

For the moment, let's say your evaluation of Wilson's approach and result is accurate.

Bush's State of the Union address used Wilson's findings in spite of that! Wilson cried foul, and his wife was outed in retaliation.

Huh? What, P-fan, are you, like A-punk, drinking in the afternoon?

Wilson's findings were summarily ignored by the Chimp in his Stsate Of the Union speech. And as for the "British intelligence" cited by Powell at the UN, this turned out to be a ten-year old report by a student.

It's pretty simple--despite T-in VA's nervous squirming. Cheney and the Project For The New American Century were hellbent on invading Iraq. Perhaps in their ludicrous incompetence they also dreamed of invading Iran. Who knows. What we DO know is that the BIGGEST catastrophe of American foreign policy has been initiated by these international war criminals, and justice will prevail and they'll be hunted down.

BTW, how'd you like that huge desperate PR project being aired on PBS--"America At A Crossroads"? Cleverly attempting to make the whole nightmare seem somehow ..."normal"? and even "decent"?

LTS TRN 2 · Post by **LTS TRN 2** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:55 pm

And what exactly is your point, babs?

Are you suggesting that maybe there WERE uranium sales to Saddam--and Cheney was/is right?

Or that the opponents of the invasion were just dupes and stooges--as Rusp Limpdick, yer hero, declares?

Look, read this article:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 777_2.html

and stop this preposterous Alamo-like defense of a grotesque and immoral act of an unelected regime.

Tom In VA · Post by **Tom In VA** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:01 pm

I know one thing. Saddam was never going to come clean and that only way we know for a fact that his WMD capabilities were overstated is because his country was overrun.

That's a fact. Up until that point between 1998 and 2003, nobody really knew a god damned thing for sure.

Terry in Crapchester · Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:51 pm

Smackie Chan wrote:
PSUFAN wrote:how much of a gulf exists between Bush and "intelligence"

Roughly the distance from St. Pete to Veracruz.

Still the master of understatement, I see . . .

T1B

How to end the War in the Middle-East

How to end the War in the Middle-East

Re: How to end the War in the Middle-East