OT: Youth Football Question

[Terry in Crapchester]

I would post this on the main board, but it would probably get clowned there, and that's not my intention.

My son is 8 years old. He'll be 9 in August and will enter 4th grade in the fall. He's big for his age -- 4'11" and 114 pounds (weighed this morning, shoes off). In the past he hasn't shown much interest in sports, and I felt it best not to push it on him. This year, however, he's made quite a change in that regard, and has shown much more interest in sports than in the past. Mostly it's been basketball, but he has mentioned lately that he really likes football too.

We signed him up for youth football last year. He went to one practice and decided he didn't like it. Since then, though, he's started playing football with kids at school, and now he says he wants to sign up this year. It seems to me that he might be a natural for football, since he's big, fairly quick and likes to hit. He says the kids have started calling him "the bulldozer" based on their football games.

The concern I have is weight limits. In the town we live in, there's one youth football program called CYFL (Community Youth Football League). Those are broken down into three divisions, we field a team in two of them -- C and B (we don't field a football team in the A Division because the powers that be in this town have decided that the town isn't big enough to support both a high school team at the modified level and a team in the A Division, which would draw from the same age group). Based on his age, he'd be playing in the C Division, and because of his age, moving him up isn't an option. The cutoff weight for C Division is 125 pounds; it's 145 pounds for B Division.

As things stand right now, he's okay with weight. And the season will be over by late October/early November at the latest. That's not that far away. But if he hits a growth spurt between now and then, which is very possible, he could be screwed on weight. And while I don't have a problem with exercise as a means of controlling weight, I do have a problem with putting him on a diet when weight isn't a health concern and he's still growing. Also, I don't know if they do weigh-ins with shoes off or on. Having shoes on during weigh-ins would eat up a little of the margin that we have right now.

Further complicating matters is the fact that he now plays soccer. I know a lot of people here don't like soccer. I don't have a problem with him playing it right now -- he needs a sport in the spring/early summer for exercise, and he needs socialization with his peer group. We tried baseball, but he has ADHD, and baseball was a little too slow under those circumstances. Also, I've read that soccer is a good developmental sport, in that the skills they learn in soccer actually translate quite well to all other sports. (I keep reminding myself that Shane Walton first went to ND on a soccer scholarship, and turned into a pretty good CB while at ND.) The problem is that in high school, soccer is a fall sport around here, and I don't want him falling in love with soccer to the point where he chooses soccer over football.

As I see it, the options are as follows:

• Sign him up for football this year, and hope his weight doesn't become an issue.
• Don't sign him up this year, but sign him up next year, when he can play at the B level and he has a little more leeway when it comes to weight, then hope for the best the year after that.
• Skip youth football altogether, then hope he still has the interest in playing when he gets to the high school level.

Any suggestions?

[indyfrisco]

Any suggestions?

[clowning]Yeah, take this topic up with your wife and kid and not the dumbasses on this board.[/clowning]

[serious]Every year he's not playing is a year he loses in the sport. You're a kid only once. Let him be able to cherish the years as a kid. At the same time, you can cherish the years as a father watching him play ball. I am getting my son into organized sports at age 4. Would do it sooner if I could.[/serious]

[Cornhusker]

[*]Sign him up for football this year, and hope his weight doesn't become an issue.
[*]Don't sign him up this year, but sign him up next year, when he can play at the B level and he has a little more leeway when it comes to weight, then hope for the best the year after that.
[*]Skip youth football altogether, then hope he still has the interest in playing when he gets to the high school level.

Any suggestions?

Only one decision if he truly wants to play.
#1

I coached little league for several years and no matter what, you CANNOT replace or afford to pass on experience. No matter on size, he'll always be behind and will get discouraged when kids smaller or equal size have a degree of technic he won't be able to match.

In high school, unless he's a freek of nature, he'll never catch up.

[Terry in Crapchester]

[*]Sign him up for football this year, and hope his weight doesn't become an issue.
[*]Don't sign him up this year, but sign him up next year, when he can play at the B level and he has a little more leeway when it comes to weight, then hope for the best the year after that.
[*]Skip youth football altogether, then hope he still has the interest in playing when he gets to the high school level.

Any suggestions?

Only one decision if he truly wants to play.
#1

I coached little league for several years and no matter what, you CANNOT replace or afford to pass on experience. No matter on size, he'll always be behind and will get discouraged when kids smaller or equal size have a degree of technic he won't be able to match.

In high school, unless he's a freek of nature, he'll never catch up.

I see your point. The problem is that with this particular kid, he might get down on football if he's busting his hump in practice but can't play in games because he's overweight.

[indyfrisco]

I see your point. The problem is that with this particular kid, he might get down on football if he's busting his hump in practice but can't play in games because he's overweight.

An even better life lesson. Dissapointment. He's way past the coddling age. When I was a kid, and that wasn't TOO long ago, there was none of this "everyone gets a trophy" shit. 1st, 2nd, 3rd got trophies. Everyone else got pissed and tried harder the next season.

This current generation of kids, as a whole, is fucked. I will do my best to raise my kids the way I was raised because I think that was right. My parents were tough on me, but they made me well aware they were doing it out of love. I'm the same way with my kid. When he doesn't want to eat what I make for dinner, he doesn't eat. When he throws temper tantrums on the floor, that's where he stays until he's finished. And when he's older and loses at something, I'm going to tell him it's because he's either not as good as the other kid or he didn't try hard enough. Sounds mean, but he will be better off in the log run.

[Terry in Crapchester]

An even better life lesson. Dissapointment. He's way past the coddling age.

That's not the issue.

He played basketball this past year. At his age, they weren't assigned to teams. What they did was work on skills, and that's pretty much all they did.

When he started out, he was a little behind the other kids in terms of developing basketball skills, particularly ball handling. To my surprise, though, he didn't give up. He stuck with it, and worked even harder. He would spend hours dribbling in the basement because he couldn't dribble outside in the winter. It got to the point where my wife was getting aggravated by the noise. I told her to cut him some slack, because it was a constructive activity, he enjoyed it, and it was keeping him out of trouble. As the year went on, he started to pass up some of the other kids who weren't working as hard as he was. Now he's one of the better basketball players in his age group at school -- in fact, he said that he was one of a select group they sent to the higher hoops in phys ed class. And he wasn't at the higher hoops at first, they sent him there after they saw improvement in him.

If he plays football and the other kids are better than he is, that won't cause him to mope. If anything, he'll outwork them to get better. But being not allowed to play because he's a few pounds heavier than an arbitrarily set weight limit won't have that effect on him.

[indyfrisco]

Well, best of luck in whatever he does. And I think you answered your own question with this:

When he started out, he was a little behind the other kids in terms of developing basketball skills, particularly ball handling.

Both husker and myself have both alluded to the fact that by not playing he will get behind his peers. It's a risk worth taking and as long as you explain to him ahead of time the situation and he understands, he'll still at least get to practice and learn the game.

[SoCalTrjn]

My 10 and 11 year old sons have both played Pop Warner since they were 7 and my 11 year old son and 12 year old nephew this year both went to the USC football camp earlier this week where they had a few days of practice with 700 other 5-8 graders from around the country working out with the Trojans coaches. Great fun
My nephew is 12 and is 5-1 and 83 LBs, because he is thin he has been able to cherry pick the JAAF divisions the last few years and racked up tons of TDs as he is played younger, heavier kids who still dont hit as hard as him. In the Trojan camp he went up vs other 6th graders who were bigger (by 30 lbs in some cases) and he struggled at first but was able to adapt.

Is it JAAF or Pop Warner there? Your son may have an issue with that weight and age. JAAF is very strict, 8 year olds (whatever your age is at the end of July is your age for the year) can only play in the Micro and Jr Micro division and can weigh no more than 100 Lbs, I think they can come in 3 or 4 lbs over before hell week but must be down to 100 lbs before games start. They wont allow 8 year olds to play Jr PeeWee in JAAF.
In Pop Warner he can only play Mighty Mite or Jr PeeWee as an 8 year old can only weigh 105 lbs for Jr PeeWee and he could be playing against 11 year olds who weigh up to 85 lbs. Pop warner still uses July 31 as the age cut off date so though he will be 9 before the games start, he will play as an 8 year old

The kid is going to need to drop some weight to play either Pop Warner or JAAF, less for PW though.

Have fun

[the_ouskull]

^^^ Anybody else terrified that this dude's got children?

the_ouskull

[Terry in Crapchester]

Is it JAAF or Pop Warner there? Your son may have an issue with that weight and age. JAAF is very strict, 8 year olds (whatever your age is at the end of July is your age for the year) can only play in the Micro and Jr Micro division and can weigh no more than 100 Lbs, I think they can come in 3 or 4 lbs over before hell week but must be down to 100 lbs before games start. They wont allow 8 year olds to play Jr PeeWee in JAAF.
In Pop Warner he can only play Mighty Mite or Jr PeeWee as an 8 year old can only weigh 105 lbs for Jr PeeWee and he could be playing against 11 year olds who weigh up to 85 lbs. Pop warner still uses July 31 as the age cut off date so though he will be 9 before the games start, he will play as an 8 year old

It's called CYFL here. I've already given the weight limits: 125 for C Division, 145 for B Division. At his age, he can only play C Division.

Over 100 pounds at C Division, you have to play line. Same thing if you're over 125 for B Division.

As things stand right now, he's okay for weight although he'll have to play the line. But there isn't much margin for error on his weight.

[SoCalTrjn]

What are the age limits on C division.... a 12 year old kid at 90 lbs will light a 114 lb 8 year old up all day long, that would be scary.
They would have to limit C division to 8-10 year olds.
Its a lot of fun, where I am at we travel all over Orange County for regular season games and further after the regional playoffs. The JAAF that my nephew plays in travels all over Southern California. I think the travel to away games is about the most fun, get caravans of kids and their parents driving all over the place, Pop Warner plays their games on Sundays, the JAAF kids play on Saturdays out here. Its a lot of fun

[Terry in Crapchester]

I believe it's based on grade level. 3rd and 4th graders play C Division, 5th and 6th graders play B Division. 7th and 8th graders play A Division in the towns that have it, we have a modified team instead for that age level.

He'll be in 4th grade next year, he'll also be 9 before the first game.

Travel is also an issue. Some of the games are over a one hour drive away. Last season, one of his friends played, drove over an hour to the game site, weighed in, then was told he couldn't play because he was over the weight limit. I'm trying to avoid that type of scenario playing out, if at all possible.

[SoCalTrjn]

yeah that would be a bummer. They dont make you weigh in before every single game here, just a couple times during the season. An hour drive here might get you 25-30 miles away

[Screw_Michigan]

^^^ Anybody else terrified that this dude's got children?

the_ouskull

werd.

the poster formerly known as "America."

[Laxplayer]

I'll just chime in here with this blast. I've been around football for the last 20+ years as a player, coach, fan, radio commentator etc.....so if you don't think I'm qualified to speak about this then go fuck yourself. When I coached at a private catholic school we had our incoming freshman class come in mostly from the local grammar schools where they played flag football. Most of the schools in So. Cal were like that back then. Loyola, Alemany, Notre Dame, St. Francis etc....my point is that kids don't have to play tackle football to be successful at the next level. If a kid is aggressive then they'll do fine. There are so many youth football coaches who have zero clue as to what they are doing it's not even funny. Freshman football coaches in high school preach proper tackling technique, among the proper technique in ALL areas of the game. They probably teach it much differently than the youth coaches. If a kid is good enough who gives a rats ass if he played pop warner or whatever tackle football as a younger kid. By just playing with your kid in the yard he can learn the proper technique. You don't need to drop tons of cash to have some frustrated fool who got cut from his freshman team all 4 years of high school screaming at your kid for the sake of winning a shitty plastic trophy. Don't worry about rushing him or not getting him in on time. Kids peak at different times, kids grow at different paces so let it happen at a normal pace. A friend of ours has a son who is going into high school next year. He played 1 year of organized tackle football and he's going to probably start at QB next year. Why? Well he's almost 6' tall, he's got a great arm and he's got the DNA. Who cares if he's only got one year. Now the kid down the street from us goes to a private QB coach, is with his dad all day throwing the ball etc......well he's barely 5'7" and has played tackle football for several years. Who's going to be the starter if everything talent wise is equal? Not the kid with all the football experience.

I for one believe that we start kids out way too young in organized sports.

[indyfrisco]

I for one believe that we start kids out way too young in organized sports.

Overall, yes. You are right. However, for the kids with great talent, this is not the case. I excelled in every sport I played in, even basketball and I was always short growing up. The best years of my life up until marriage and having my own kid was playing sports as a little kid. I looked forward to games and even practice so much. It was my life then. And even now, damn near 100% of my personal time spent on entertainment revolves around sports. For some of us, playing sports and being fans of sports is a way of life.

Sure, Poindexter with coke bottle glasses and string bean arms and legs shouldn't be suited up for soccer and baseball at 4 or 5 years old, but let the kids who can actually play enjoy it.

[Mr T]

I for one believe that we start kids out way too young in organized sports.

Rack it.

Let kids be kids.

Let them play on sandlots w/o crazed adults(wats up shmick?) and just have fun.

Yes you beat your kids and got in fights with the other teams parents but what did that get you? A plastic trophy and a fucked up kid who hates you.