For the One Track Mind Crew...

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 4:17 pm

Great thread, Velo. Apparently, myself, Dog, Felix, and Coods have one-track minds revolving around firearms.

Did I mention the HK I'm thinking about trading for comes with the factory HK flashlight under the slide?

Faitly useless if you're not a SWAT guy or something, but it looks awfully cool.

velocet · Post by **velocet** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 4:57 pm

Who said one can't learn things from a squalid hovel of filth style message board? Hell, now I know some people think an old shotgun barrel will have something bad happen if new ammo is used in it. Never heard that before.

You guys almost had as good a thing going as that real estate thread. More stuff I didn't know about.

Crazy times!

velocet

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:13 pm

Dude, I kick myself and bang my head against the wall every time I actually learn something new from this place.

Dog · Post by **Dog** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:27 pm

mvscal wrote:
Dog wrote:
Cuda wrote: Yeah, they're... older. Otherwise they're no fucking different- or at least not fucking different enough to matter
Well, that and different technique used to make it,
If they used a different technique to make it, it wouldn't be a Damascus barrel.

It has something to do with the twisting of the metal vs. the overlay. But admittedly, I'm not into the metalurgic sciences.

Cuda · Post by **Cuda** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:35 pm

Felix wrote:
Cuda wrote:
I have an old Parker GH with damascus barrels that I shoot every now & then.
really.......and you haven't mentioned owning this $7,500 shotgun until now...your modesty is truly amazing.....

I'm betting it sits right next to the Churchill or is it next to the Purdey.....

either way, rack you and your fabulous shotgun collection....

No, it's actually a $400 clunker- but has proven itself safe to shoot.

Uhmmmm. you do know the difference between Damascus barrels and twist steel ones, don't you?

OCmike · Post by **OCmike** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:39 pm

Cuda wrote:
Uhmmmm. you do know the difference between Damascus barrels and twist steel ones, don't you?

Damascus barrels are for shooting rocks?

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:45 pm

Dog wrote:But admittedly, I'm not into the metalurgic sciences.

[SoooooooDinsdaleIt'sSilly]I'm not either... but I used to live with a blacksmith way back when.

I think the definition of damascus steel has grown to many meanings. Originally, it meant it was forged in Syria, but that's obviously not the case anymore. But it generally refers to folding steel into many layers, which aligns the grain for strength.

I'm only guessing, but I'd assume that before around 1900, the steel was forged by hand, and barrels were made from hand-forged damascus. I'm guessing that after 1900, power hammers and rollers and whatnot became the norm, and it quite possibly made for more consistant strength throughout the piece.

Just a guess though.

Dog · Post by **Dog** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:52 pm

But none of this changes the fact that Cunta is a limp-wristed cock gobbler.

Goober McTuber · Post by **Goober McTuber** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:01 pm

I don't think true Damascus steel is formed by folding steel into many layers. From wikipedia:

This process was further refined in the Middle East, either using locally produced steels, or by re-working wootz purchased from India. The exact process remains unknown, but allowed carbides to precipitate out as micro particles arranged in sheets or bands within the body of a blade. The carbides are far harder than the surrounding low carbon steel, allowing the swordsmith to make an edge which would cut hard materials with the precipitated carbides, while the bands of softer steel allowed the sword as a whole to remain tough and flexible.

The banded carbide precipitates appear in the blade as a swirling pattern. By manipulating the ingot of steel in a certain way during forging, various intentional patterns could be induced in the steel. The most common of these was a pattern of lateral bands, often called 'Muhammed's Ladder', most likely formed by cutting or forging notches into the surface of the ingot, then forging it into the blade shape (this is the method Pendray (below) used to reproduce the pattern). The notches resulted in different degrees of work hardening between top and bottom, and thus controlled the size of the carbide particles in the surface at those areas, and thus the appearance of the bands.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:07 pm

Goober McTuber wrote:I don't think true Damascus steel is formed by folding steel into many layers.

Do I have to type "I think the definition of damascus steel has grown to many meanings" really slowly next time?

The wiki entry obviously wasn't written by a smith(:shocker for wiki:). My good good old buddy I grew up with used to go to school for damascus, amongst other things, and I used to have to sit there and listen to him babble about it whenever he was drunk, and about how damascus blades are made.

I'm guessing he'd laugh about it if he saw that wiki link. I'll have to guess, since I haven't seen him since he married that stupid golddigging cunt and took on her hellspawn. Oddly enough, he was a huge rifle/shotgun guy, too, although I don't think he had any desire to make them like he did swords and knives.

Knifemaking is cool shit.

Dog · Post by **Dog** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:16 pm

Dinsdale wrote: Oddly enough, he was a huge rifle/shotgun guy, too, although I don't think he had any desire to make them like he did swords and knives.

Seeing how he was friends with you, I bet he'd be dumb enough to fire modern rounds through a damascus barrel.

Goober McTuber · Post by **Goober McTuber** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:23 pm

Dinsdale wrote:
Goober McTuber wrote:I don't think true Damascus steel is formed by folding steel into many layers.

Do I have to type "I think the definition of damascus steel has grown to many meanings" really slowly next time?

The wiki entry obviously wasn't written by a smith(:shocker for wiki:). My good good old buddy I grew up with used to go to school for damascus, amongst other things, and I used to have to sit there and listen to him babble about it whenever he was drunk, and about how damascus blades are made.

I'm guessing he'd laugh about it if he saw that wiki link.

You’re always such a stickler for accuracy. Perhaps you might have said you were talking about pattern welded steel, which is commonly sold today as "Damascus steel". Or perhaps you could spend some time making the necessary corrections to that wiki.

Atomic Punk · Post by **Atomic Punk** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:51 pm

Dinsdale wrote: Did I mention the HK I'm thinking about trading for comes with the factory HK flashlight under the slide?

Faitly useless if you're not a SWAT guy or something, but it looks awfully cool.

HK's are very accurate and the auto types put out a lot of lead in a hurry. I got to fire the HK MP5 10mm, 0-1-2 trigger group at a New York range with my FBI buddy. Wherever the sight was point at, it went exactly there. A lot of fun to shoot. A SEAL buddy said they used back then (no idea what they use now) the HK MP5 9mm, 0-1-full auto trigger group. The one Dins is looking at is the HK UMP45? I was close to getting one a few years ago for the accuracy and how well they are put together. Never fired one of those though.

Good hijacking of a thread.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:06 pm

Atomic Punk wrote:The one Dins is looking at is the HK UMP45?

I was close to getting one a few years ago for the accuracy and how well they are put together. Never fired one of those though.[/quote]

Sorry for the confusion.

The one I'm looking to snarf is I think a P2000. Pistol, .40S&W... never had a 40 before, but I like the ballistics better than a 9.

My gun-nut buddy bought the carbine, which is a HK USC(I think he's got more than one HK rifle, actually). I belive it's in 45ACP, if I remember right. I think it's pretty darn similar to the UMP. And the Leupold CQT is the freaking shit(buy American, assholes -- and since there's only one high-end American manufacturer, it becomes an easy choice). I will be shooting it here eventually. Then again, he's got so many new toys since he "re-emerged," it kight take a while to check them all out.

Dude also has a membership in the absolutely BOOYAH, top-of-the-line gun club down the road from me... which is nice. The indoor .22 range is open 24 hours now, too. Been a while since I've been out there. And he says he now has the certification to take guests on to the tactical range now, which I've enevr dome before. Sounds like a freaking hoot. I might have to shoot at the good guys, too, just to piss Luther off.

Good hijacking of a thread.

That I knew you'd be along to, sooner or later.

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:33 pm

Cuda wrote:
Uhmmmm. you do know the difference between Damascus barrels and twist steel ones, don't you?

no not a clue.....

Let's draw a distinction here. The term "Damascus" steel is very commonly used to describe any barrels not made of 'fluid' steel. This has come to include, erroneously, the lower grades of twist-steel barrels offerred on inexpensive shotguns in the late 1800's.

Damascus barrels such as produced by the great American shotgun companies like Parker, LC Smith, Fox and Lefever as well as the great European gunmakers like Westley Richards, Purdey and Bonehill CAN and often ARE proofed for use with smokeless powder (Nitro-Proof). With appropriate loadings, they shoot just as well as any modern barrels. In their day, fine Damascus was considered superior to fluid steel although metallurgy still had a long way to come.

The problem with damascus barrels is that if when they were made the wires were all welded together with hammer and forge. If just one tiny spot was not welded completly what happens is that as that barrel gets old that tiny spot will corrode causing a weak spot that might blow up.

^^^^ the following is an excerpt from FIREARMS FORUM.COM

look Coods, I'm not interested in arguing about whether an old shotgun with Damascus barrels is safe to shoot modern ammunition through...I know that there are many that will undoubtedly hold up....

the "point" (which seems to have been lost somewhere along the way) is that I saw-first hand, an example of what CAN happen to a Damascus barrel when loaded with modern ammunition....you just automatically assumed I was lying (say, you're not projecting are you)

again, I've got no reason whatsoever for bullshitting you or any of the other nameless rabble that might care about this...I don't anticipate anybody on this board is going to be saying to themselves "wow, I've found new respect for Felix because he knows about Damascus barrels"

Cuda · Post by **Cuda** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:48 pm

Dinsdale wrote:
Dog wrote:But admittedly, I'm not into the metalurgic sciences.

[SoooooooDinsdaleIt'sSilly]I'm not either... but I used to live with a blacksmith way back when.

I think the definition of damascus steel has grown to many meanings. Originally, it meant it was forged in Syria, but that's obviously not the case anymore. But it generally refers to folding steel into many layers, which aligns the grain for strength.

I'm only guessing, but I'd assume that before around 1900, the steel was forged by hand, and barrels were made from hand-forged damascus. I'm guessing that after 1900, power hammers and rollers and whatnot became the norm, and it quite possibly made for more consistant strength throughout the piece.

Just a guess though.

This ] [ close to spot-on, Dins

An easy to understand explanation of Damascus whatever, is that it's made up of strands of steel & sometimes a mixture of iron & steel strands that are braided together, heated & hammered & folded until they are welded together into a single piece. The actual pattern that is made is determined by the number of strands, the way it was folded & hammered and the combination of steel & iron strands that were used. Damascus shotgun barrels are made by taking the strip of damascus steel and heating, hammering, & wrapping around a mandrel numerous times & hammering it some more until it's welded into a tube and then drilling & honing the bore to a mirror finish. Machinery capable of doing this has been around since about the mid-19th Century.

Cuda · Post by **Cuda** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:50 pm

Felix wrote: excerpt from FIREARMS FORUM.COM

Tard Train with Guns

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:05 pm

mvscal wrote: Nobody knows how Damascus steel was made least of all some drunk moron in a shithole apartment.

Again, you seem confused.

Why don't you try reading what you quoted next time.

You'll notice "damascus" wasn't capitalized?

That was intentional.

The usage of "Damascus" generally refers to the fine smithing of the Syrians. When not capitalized, it refers to the technique of making blades a certain way.

LIKE THEY TEACH IN KNIFESMITHING CLASS.

Dumbass.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:10 pm

mvscal wrote:some drunk moron in a shithole apartment.

Who won and placed in the World's Farrier Competition in multiple events?

After training under the World Champion Farrier and expert smith, and being a second-generation blacksmith himself?

The dude who's dedicated a lot of time to studying the history os smithing, back to its origins, and can rattle off the date of just about every major breakthrough and the influence on world history it had?

The dude who was clearing a few grand a week doing the shit professionally?

THAT "moron"?

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:34 pm

mvscal wrote:Walter Mittysdale

The next time one of you tards thinks you're being funny with "Densedale," "Dumbsdale," "Dimsdale," or anything else your halfwitted ass is contemplating using, let this serve as an example as to why you should just hit the "back" button and shut the fuck up.

Funny shit.