I was stunned to know at the beginning of this season Biggio was on the cusp of 3000 hits. It's hard to deny a guy a spot in the Hall when he's got a magic number like 3000 hits eventhough he flew very much under the radar for most of his career. I didn't realize he's played since '88 and he's so high up on the all-time list in doubles as well. He's been overshadowed by someone on that Astros team at different points in his career. Early on, he was always considered the second guy in the Killer B's behind Bagwell. I always associated him as a complimentary player and never looked at him as being a centerpiece.
You look at Biggio's numbers...definitely a product of longevity. He's got the third lowest career batting average among those with 3000 hits. Only Rickey Henderson (.279) and Cal Ripken (.276) were lower than Biggio's .282. This says to me that he probably doesn't get anywhere near 3000 if he doesn't play as long as he has...no duh, right? Really what that means is that without getting the at-bats (ie--playing for as long as he has), he would have 3000 hits. He's always had just one season over 200 hits.
I wouldn't freak out and pitch a fit if he gets in but he's not in the category of great by any means...he's always been good for a long time and he's compiled a nice career resume. I don't want to hear the "he's got more hits than Ruth and Bonds so he's gotta be a Hall of Famer" when both of those guys have lost at least 2000 at bats due to walks.
Let's be honest, if the guy retired 2 years ago and finishes with about 2800 hits, is he really in the discussion for Hall of Fame? He's made it 3000 but it's not like he's been rewriting the record books with what he's doing. Would you rather put a guy in Hall of Fame with 20 good years or 10 great years? Let's say Ichiro only plays 10 seasons and finishes with just 2200 or 2300 hits...wouldn't you consider his resume Hall of Fame-worthy eventhough he didn't have the longevity of someone like Biggio? It gets kind of silly when you think a guy with 3000 hits is a Hall of Famer but a guy with 2900 isn't. You've got to look a guy with consistent stretch of great seasons and not just a guy who played a long time and racked up numbers.
Good points Shoalz, but you can't argue his rankings in some of the categories. Dude was considered a 4 1/2 tool player from '93 thru '99. Dude did have a great run for that 6 1/2 year stretch (strike shortened season in '94). As a leadoff hitter, Biggio averaged almost 18 HRs a year and 75 RBI a year during that stretch. He also avg 36 steals and almost a .400 obp during that 6.5 year stretch. I think he acheived a modest level of greatness for a decent stretch during his career.
Indy, again, I am taking exception to Biggio's comment.
Athletes are notorious egomaniacs.
I would have respected him infinitely more if I read a comment from him saying that he was proud of his career, but that he wishes he could have performed better in post-season.
poptart wrote:
Overall solid take by Shoalzie, btw.
You know I agree with you overall on Biggio. But Shoalz, as usual, was way off the mark.
2nd base--the part Shoalz left out...of course
John Boehner wrote:Boehner said. "In Congress, we have a red button, a green button and a yellow button, alright. Green means 'yes,' red means 'no,' and yellow means you're a chicken shit. And the last thing we need in the White House, in the oval office, behind that big desk, is some chicken who wants to push this yellow button.
You bore me, Todd. Seriously. I have no axe to grind with the Yankees. Dins and Lax (you know, REAL Yankee fans) can attest to that. I am no fan of Biggio. To say he is not HOF worthy, as a 2nd baseman, seriously disqualifies you from further conversation on the matter. Period.
I vote for shit troll, btw... No way someone not named BCO could be THIS stupid.
John Boehner wrote:Boehner said. "In Congress, we have a red button, a green button and a yellow button, alright. Green means 'yes,' red means 'no,' and yellow means you're a chicken shit. And the last thing we need in the White House, in the oval office, behind that big desk, is some chicken who wants to push this yellow button.
Todd, Biggio has been a doubles machine.
He's gone over 40 doubles seven times in his career, and over 50 twice.
He's led the NL in that category three times.
Longevity has nothing to do with his greatness in that particular category.
Strokin' doubles is to him what putting up strange posts is to you.
