Why is it always about race?

[BBMarley]

Saying its okay to make the Michael Vick thing a racial issue because of the civil rights movement? This is all about race because Atlanta still has white and black neighborhoods? Jesus fuckin' Christ- can anything just be about right and wrong?

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/ ... cksatlanta

I am just so fuckin' tired of everything being black and white. Right is right, wrong is wrong and race had NOTHING to do with this Michael Vick thing.

[Mikey]

What a bunch of crap.

Innocent until proven guilty? Sure, but if and when he's proven guilty it'll still be all about race. Then it becomes a legal lynching in their eyes.

[Risa]

Saying its okay to make the Michael Vick thing a racial issue because of the civil rights movement? This is all about race because Atlanta still has white and black neighborhoods? Jesus fuckin' Christ- can anything just be about right and wrong?

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/ ... cksatlanta

Yeah, Marley. Whatever.

by the way

http://espn.go.com/i/eticket/20070806/p ... ldiv07.jpg

it's always amusing to see PETA members wearing leather belts.

I am just so fuckin' tired of everything being black and white. Right is right, wrong is wrong and race had NOTHING to do with this Michael Vick thing.

The argument out here in the southwest is that those who fight against cockfighting are being racist because cockfighting is a part of Latino culture, and Latino rites of manhood. To destroy cockfighting is to destroy Latino culture. Latino can be substituted with Spanish or Mexican, and usually is.

So............... if folks are arguing that dog fighting is a part of black southern tradition and black southern culture, then to condemn Michael Vick for engaging in dog fighting is to destroy black southern culture. If those who are condemning Vick are passing a blind eye to white dogfighting in the south -- have, indeed, never uttered a word against dogfighting until Vick's case -- then there is an element of racism against Vick.

There has to be an element of a double standard, though. Vick has to be a black man who is persecuted where others (white) are let go or ignored. If the double standard exists, then there is merit. Period.

If it does not exist, they are being fools. What has been the word on dogfighting in southern american culture, regardless of race, Marley?

[Dinsdale]

The subject of the article says it all herself -- she couldn't be bothered watching football until the Falcons got a black quarterback.

And then she has the unmitigated gall to cry "racism" from the mountaintops.

How many white celebrities get tried in the Court of Public Opinion before they ever get to trial? Hmmm, let me think... that's right -- ALL OF THEM.

No wonder all the "racism" allegations fall on deaf ears these days. While she's quite familiar with the history of the Civil Rights Movement, apparently our protagonist in this story isn't familiar with The Boy Who Cried Wolf.

Take us all back to 1946.

Hey, how about you people come join the rest of us here in 2007? There's plenty of unsolved crimes right here in the present, and many of them were commited by black people. But I guess that would mean those geriatric civil rights "warriors" would have to find an actual identity.


I'm actually offended by an African American jumping on the football bandwagon of any team just because they have a black QB. I didn't see a whole lot of people declaring some sort of victory when Jason Sehorn was the only white corner in the league. I didn't see some huge celebration when Ed McCaffry made the Pro Bowl as a white reciever.


Race relations will never move forward to the point of nonexistence until the "black community"(also offensive to me) lets go of their bigotry and hate.

[OCmike]

So............... if folks are arguing that dog fighting is a part of black southern tradition and black southern culture, then to condemn Michael Vick for engaging in dog fighting is to destroy black southern culture. If those who are condemning Vick are passing a blind eye to white dogfighting in the south -- have, indeed, never uttered a word against dogfighting until Vick's case -- then there is an element of racism against Vick.

No, there's not. This isn't a high-profile case because Vick is black, you fucking retard. It's a high-profile case because he's an NFL star. Were Tom Brady or Peyton Manning involved in a similar case, it would be all over the news for weeks, as the Vick story has been.

Additionally, the notion that Vick has already been tried and convicted in the court of public opinion because he is black is equally stupid. People think Vick is guilty, because the preponderance of evidence points to his guilt and he's a back-asswards southern blue gum.

He may very well not be guilty, but that would surprise a lot of people, myself included.

[Risa]

Dog fighting is illegal no matter what fucking color you are, you stupid cunt.

Oral sex/sodomy is also illegal -- still -- in some places.

The traditions of playing the numbers (for the black community) and bingo (for the catholic) also had to be dealt with, when it came to gambling laws past and present.

The tradition and cultural argument has to be heard, mvscal. Tradition and culture is what allows that which is illegal, to be allowed to flourish despite the law. Again, if dogfighting is given the blind eye treatment within the white (or latin) communities in Georgia, but Vick is being prosecuted there just might be the taint of racism involved.

If dogfighting is prosecuted no matter who is involved in it, then the race targeting argument should indeed be flushed. I don't see the big deal, and I see no conflict.

[RadioFan]

There has to be an element of a double standard, though.

No, there doesn't have to be, and one is not present here.

[RadioFan]

The tradition and cultural argument has to be heard, mvscal.

Not with dogfighting it doesn't, you fucking moron.

[BSmack]

The argument out here in the southwest is that those who fight against cockfighting are being racist because cockfighting is a part of Latino culture, and Latino rites of manhood. To destroy cockfighting is to destroy Latino culture. Latino can be substituted with Spanish or Mexican, and usually is.

How about if we say that destroying lynching is to destroy southern culture?

[Dinsdale]

[Were Tom Brady or Peyton Manning involved in a similar case, it would be all over the news for weeks, as the Vick story has been.

If Tom Brady is so much as one day late with one child support check, he will be absolutely roasted in the media.

Yet there's millions of deadbeat dads who are black. I suppose the media will be guilty of "racism" then, too.

[Risa]

The argument out here in the southwest is that those who fight against cockfighting are being racist because cockfighting is a part of Latino culture, and Latino rites of manhood. To destroy cockfighting is to destroy Latino culture. Latino can be substituted with Spanish or Mexican, and usually is.

How about if we say that destroying lynching is to destroy southern culture?

Can 'southern culture' be re-translated as 'State's rights'? Something like that has already been argued, which is why every anti-lynching law on the federal level met with defeat.

[BSmack]

The argument out here in the southwest is that those who fight against cockfighting are being racist because cockfighting is a part of Latino culture, and Latino rites of manhood. To destroy cockfighting is to destroy Latino culture. Latino can be substituted with Spanish or Mexican, and usually is.

How about if we say that destroying lynching is to destroy southern culture?

Can 'southern culture' be re-translated as 'State's rights'? Something like that has already been argued, which is why every anti-lynching law on the federal level met with defeat.

No, we're talking about the culture of the south. Lynchings were social events. Events that outsiders forcibly destroyed. Ergo, a part of southern culture was destroyed. At least according to your twisted logic.

[Risa]

[Were Tom Brady or Peyton Manning involved in a similar case, it would be all over the news for weeks, as the Vick story has been.

If Tom Brady is so much as one day late with one child support check, he will be absolutely roasted in the media.

Is Tom Brady officially sports shorthand for 'runaway dad' since he left his (golddigging) pregnant girlfriend for a supermodel?

The tradition and cultural argument has to be heard, mvscal.

Not with dogfighting it doesn't, you fucking moron.

If there is a double standard being applied, yes it does.

I'm anti-dogfighting myself. I'm anti-cockfighting. I'm anti-'running with the bulls'. I'm against product testing on animals. I'm against using dolphins as trained weapons-carrying soldiers in underwater wars.

I'm also anti-PETA and anti-ELF. What happened on Michael Vick's compound was WRONG, and EVERYBODY involved, top to bottom, needs to be hung out to dry. But if Vick is the only person being persecuted or (god forbid) if he's only being persecuted because his celebrity forces local authority's hand into actually doing something, then there are other problems here than the deaths of little puppy dogs.

[Invictus]

I read that drivel a few hours ago and wondered when it would end up a topic here. With Risa posting in this thread, I'm thinking at least three pages.

This is blasphemy to say I know but why is it that widows of famous men get so much mileage? Jackie, Coretta, Myrlie, and Juanita. As her husband was an alum at my alma mater, Coretta King always was given great respect and I really didn't see why. She turned a blind eye to her husband's philandering from college until his death and she was really just window dressing for her husband and after his passing, was lauded for her courage. She raised children, two of whom really don't do shit but live off their father's name and estate (as did she) and she was lauded as a champion for civil rights/justice. Why?

How does anything Michael Vick does or did have any correlation or bearing on the struggle of people who really had it bad? Michale Vick has dug himself a hole (dead dog pun intended) and I am not sure WHY Mrs. Abernathy sees him as someone worthy of pity. What about Pacman Jones? Michael Irvin?

That story sucked and the dude who wrote it should be fired and then kicked in the nuts. Hard.

[Risa]

The tradition and cultural argument has to be heard, mvscal.

No, it doesn't.

You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours.

--Sir Charles Napier on the Indian tradition of suttee

That's one of the dopest quotes ever. I used to have that as a .sig back on one of the other boards. Thanks, S. M. Stirling, you sick fuck. And tradition and culture still have to be heard. Again, if there's a double standard -- be it because of race or (as some of you are pointing out, thank you) celebrity -- then the cause for that double standard needs to be addressed.

How about if we say that destroying lynching is to destroy southern culture?

Can 'southern culture' be re-translated as 'State's rights'? Something like that has already been argued, which is why every anti-lynching law on the federal level met with defeat.

No, we're talking about the culture of the south. Lynchings were social events. Events that outsiders forcibly destroyed. Ergo, a part of southern culture was destroyed. At least according to your twisted logic.

You may or may not be pulling a spin, BSmack. I'm not sure.

[Beantown Basher]

who cares? Call me a cracker?>Ouch.. I'll call you a spearchucking, porchmonkey nig ger. Should that hurt you? They are just words..People need to concentrate on their familes..their jobs..and stop worrying about silly, trivial shite.

[Mr T]

I am just so fuckin' tired of everything being black and white. Right is right, wrong is wrong and race had NOTHING to do with this Michael Vick thing.

If you have any intelligence, you know it didnt have anything to do with race.

But people in a atlanta are saying he didnt get his due process because he is black. Yet he hasnt been convicted of anything yet. You cant stop everybody from forming their own opinion. I am sure I know how they felt about the Duke Lacrosse team when they heard that story. They were probably ready to send them to the electric chair with only knowing that a black stripper was accusing some white guys of rape.


The real reason why he is fucked....he is human. PETA are pro-animal and anti-human. If it was between saving a two legged dog with cancer or a smart young college grad from death, the peta would pick the dog.

BTW, saying this is part of their culture is fucking retarded.

[Risa]

Beantown, you're not a paddyboy?

I read that drivel a few hours ago and wondered when it would end up a topic here. With Risa posting in this thread, I'm thinking at least three pages.

This is blasphemy to say I know but why is it that widows of famous men get so much mileage? Jackie, Coretta, Myrlie, and Juanita.

Jackie didn't do anything except be a shopaholic and spend other people's money... but then she also displayed great presence of mind when her husband's head got shot off. That is, if she really was retrieving his brain, instead of trying to crawl out of that convertible by any means necessary.

Coretta's man was assassinated.

Myrlie's man was assassinated, and then she had to fight for justice, for the men who killed her husband to be brought to justice.

Juanita gets points for living through Jim Crow.

As her husband was an alum at my alma mater, Coretta King always was given great respect and I really didn't see why. She turned a blind eye to her husband's philandering from college until his death and she was really just window dressing for her husband and after his passing, was lauded for her courage.

True -- but most women were told that's what they were supposed to do. My mama told me about some of the shit her parents -- a pastor and pastor's wife -- where counseled regarding appropriate behavior and acceptable behavior behind closed doors when they came up to Indiana that made me blanche.

As for being window dressing, it's not like she didn't live with the fear of being assassinated herself, or their children being assassinated, or her husband being assassinated. They got death threats all the time. It takes a strong person to say 'I will not be cowed' when folks are talking about killing you, your husband, your children, bombing your house, bombing your church, jailing you, all kinds of sick shit.

She raised children, two of whom really don't do shit but live off their father's name and estate (as did she) and she was lauded as a champion for civil rights/justice. Why?

Her man is dead, and the government did it.

I guess she knows something about bodies and buried. Shrug.

How does anything Michael Vick does or did have any correlation or bearing on the struggle of people who really had it bad?

Not a damn thing.

Michale Vick has dug himself a hole (dead dog pun intended)

True. He's an evil, evil man to do that to puppy dogs.

and I am not sure WHY Mrs. Abernathy sees him as someone worthy of pity.

Maybe they had a personal relationship?

What about Pacman Jones? Michael Irvin?

Maybe she feels the same way about them, too. She just wasn't asked about them.

That story sucked

Yeah, it does.

and the dude who wrote it should be fired and then kicked in the nuts. Hard.

oh, shit.

[BSmack]

No, we're talking about the culture of the south. Lynchings were social events. Events that outsiders forcibly destroyed. Ergo, a part of southern culture was destroyed. At least according to your twisted logic.

You may or may not be pulling a spin, BSmack. I'm not sure.

I was making the same damn point mvscal was making from a slightly different angle. If you want to argue that something as barbaric as dogfighting is a part of southern black "culture" then you should be prepared for someone to argue that lynching is a part of southern white culture.

[Dinsdale]

What happened on Michael Vick's compound was WRONG, and EVERYBODY involved, top to bottom, needs to be hung out to dry. But if Vick is the only person being persecuted or (god forbid) if he's only being persecuted because his celebrity forces local authority's hand into actually doing something, then there are other problems here than the deaths of little puppy dogs.

Have you ever once considered knowing what the fuck you're talking about before you comment on it?

Michael Vick's celebrity had nothing to do with it. Read that again if you need to.

The dogfighting ring was only discovered because they served a warrant at the property because his cousin was allegedly dealing drugs out of there, too. The dogfighting operation was what I believe they call an "incidental find," which is grounds to get a separate warrant.

And "EVERYBODY involved, top to bottom, needs to be hung out to dry." You mean like one of the "Kennelz" employees, who already copped a plea(and is rolling on the Vick clan, who stabbed him in the back).


RACK Vic-btw. His ethnic group isn't ever an issue here, unless he can work it for laughs. That's because he doesn't wear it on his sleeve like some badge of honor, and doesn't want sympathy over things that happened 40-100 years ago. Matter of fact, I can only think of one poster here who really cares about what race any other poster is.

[Risa]

Did you say something, Dinsdale? I'm laughing too hard at Beantown going off on UCant.

[Dinsdale]

Did you say something, Dinsdale?

[RadioFan]

The tradition and cultural argument has to be heard, mvscal.

Not with dogfighting it doesn't, you fucking moron.

If there is a double standard being applied, yes it does.

There isn't.

[Caveman]

Her man is dead, and the government did it.

Yeah I have a comment. Uhh, what?

[Dinsdale]

And always remember -- the Duke Lacross players should be in jail, since they're rich white kids, therefore they must be guilty of something.

Who said that again?

That's right... our resident Champion of Racial Equality.


When I tell Risa she should "fucking kill herself," that is not a "smackboard allegory." I really mean it.


Die, you fucking pig.

[Risa]

Whatever, Dins. That shit made me bust a gut. It was so out of nowhere, I could virtually see the steam from his ears, the redness of his cheeks, the pout of his lips, the spittle flying as his chest heaved all dramatic-like. I could also almost see a meaty red-knuckled Irish hand reaching out to grab and shake and fist-to-nose another Irishman.

That post was awesome. Made my morning.

Weren't they both involved in welshed bets before?


Caveman, the government killed Dr. King.

Addendum: Dins, that was before the test results came back that she had several dude's semen in her panties, none of which belonged to any of the players. I then denounced her, just as other folks around these parts were saying that it was impossible that the test results would have come back so soon or that they would have been released. Rape is serious business, but so is a false allegation of rape.

[OCmike]

Addendum: Dins, that was before the test results came back that she had several dude's semen in her panties, none of which belonged to any of the players. I then denounced her, just as other folks around these parts were saying that it was impossible that the test results would have come back so soon or that they would have been released. Rape is serious business, but so is a false allegation of rape.

And you assumed those players were guilty based on race and class. Thanks for playing, bigot.

[Caveman]

This guy worked for the government?



I'm confused.

[RumpleForeskin]

Dogs are colorblind. Maybe we should take after them in this scenario.

[BSmack]

Dogs are colorblind. Maybe we should take after them in this scenario.

Does this mean you'll be sniffing your wife's ass?

[Invictus]

Not so fast Rumple.

[Risa]

This guy worked for the government?



I'm confused.

Why? JFK was not killed by Lee Harvey Oswald. Sirhan Sirhan was not the lone gunman in the assassination of Bobby. Malcolm X was killed by joint order of the NOI and the Klan, organizations which had been cozy bedfellows before; the real murderers were allowed to go free.

The government tried to kill Fidel, succeeded in having a hand in assassinating Patrice by helping the Belgiums. Teddy probably intentionally killed Mary Jo. And J. Edgar was a sick son of a bitch.

But anyway, regarding Dr. King, there are too many unanswered questions about the assassination, and if I remember correctly the King family itself said that they thought the US government had a hand in Dr. King's death. I don't remember if the landlady who was sent to the insane asylum by the government because she refused to change or recant her eye witness story, was around for the King assassination or the JFK's assasination.

It was the 60s. You don't really believe the government had nothing to do with killing off a man they thought was the most dangerous in America?

[RumpleForeskin]

Dogs are colorblind. Maybe we should take after them in this scenario.

Does this mean you'll be sniffing your wife's ass?

You fucking peeping Tom.

[Risa]

Addendum: Dins, that was before the test results came back that she had several dude's semen in her panties, none of which belonged to any of the players. I then denounced her, just as other folks around these parts were saying that it was impossible that the test results would have come back so soon or that they would have been released. Rape is serious business, but so is a false allegation of rape.

And you assumed those players were guilty based on race and class. Thanks for playing, bigot.

I assumed they were guilty because, according to earlier reports, neighbors heard the fight between the team and the two dancers, a fight in which the n-bomb was dropped. That seemed to corroborate Crystal's story.

The team was pissed off because two black escorts were sent instead of what they ordered (don't they know anything about escort services?), and furthermore they thought Crystal was 'fat' and other stuff. Just some bad shit that went down between the two dancers and the team......................... and it got out of hand enough for the police to come around. Something did happen.

It just wasn't rape. Crystal fucked up, and ended up fucking it up for all women in general and black women in particular. So fuck her.

[The Whistle Is Screaming]

In other words, you gave the benefit of the doubt to the black bitches, not the white pricks.

Thanks for playing, bigot.

[Invictus]

black bitches,... white pricks.

Somebody help me out here.

Didn't Jake Steed or Lex Steele do a video series entitled this? Maybe it was a website I stumbled across sometime ago.

[OCmike]

...the Belgiums...

I laughed.

[Risa]

black bitches,... white pricks.

Somebody help me out here.

Didn't Jake Steed or Lex Steele do a video series entitled this? Maybe it was a website I stumbled across sometime ago.

All I got was 'Black Boners White Pricks #2', 'Giant Black Meat White Treat' and 'The Black Bastard'. I thought Lex only fucked white bitches (preferably in groups)? man, porn sucks. why is a black man always The Beast, all cock no thought? and white bitches are mindless whores around black men. That's some bullshit.

[OCmike]

My personal favorite is "Daddy's Worst Nightmare" where it's all white chicks getting boned by black guys.

[Invictus]

Jake Steed did "Little White Chicks, Big Black Monster Dicks" and there are dozens of other titles along that genre. And, Lex fucks all kinds of women, not just white ones. In his "Lex the Impaler" series, he does terrible things to the rectums of many blondes so you may have seen that series.

There have been guys like Ray Victory who built a career in the 80's off fucking the palest, blondest bitches out there. He ended up marrying a Eurotrash star named Jean Afrique and they moved to the Netherlands.

I guess a lot of people like that whole checkered sex/busting up of chiffarobes idea when a frail, innocent white woman is mounted by a dark skinned, black buck.

Risa, go here for some interesting erm, stuff:
http://www.darkcavern.com or http://www.darkcavern.net