Simply... The best evar!

Blueblood · Post by **Blueblood** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 5:38 am

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Blueblood · Post by **Blueblood** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 6:08 am

I'll admit it. I'm an unabashed Bonds fan. No apologies from Barry necessary.

He did what he thought he needed to do...many others were as well, both before and after.....and the powers that be (MLB, the networks, the advertisers, the fans) LOVED EVERY MINUTE OF the HOME-RUN-is-KING era of baseball. And in the vanguard was and remains to this day........ESPN, or as Mike Silver has opined....the Eternally Self-Promoting Network.

So within minutes of the historic Shot, all they can get on to interview are authors of books disparaging the man. People with a vested interest in talking shit about the man. Besides John Kruk saying, and rightfully so, that in his mind Barry was and is the best he ever saw play the game, very little if anything about the totality of breaking this venerated record or celebrating what an achievement it is. To my mind, some of this smacks of sour grapes and payback for years of him not giving the almighty Media what they want...which is usually everything.

Give the Man his due.....If you want to blame anyone for tainting of records, and really, who knows how many hitting AND pitching records would be affected, please be sure to heap plenty on Major League Baseball and every single one of the Team Owners who gleefully watched the cash flow in the past 10 years as the turnstiles spun furiously and balls flew out of parks across the country. They are as much to blame as any player for any asterisk that may be pinned to this great and historic achievement.

Congratulations Barry!

You're STILL one helluva ballplayer and you've earned the right to be called the Home Run King.

RadioFan · Post by **RadioFan** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 6:45 am

*

Rack the cheater, I guess.

Greatest "record" in American sports? Please. That went out when Bud Selig became commissioner.

The NFL is king in this country, not baseball.

I'm just glad this shit is over. Now we can move on to more important things, like which cheater will break Barry's record, right baseball fans?

Remind me to post in this thread after Sept. 1.

Mister Bushice · Post by **Mister Bushice** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 7:39 am

I'm a big Giants fan and this record meant nothing to me, except it is something interesting that happened in a year of the worst team I have ever seen them field.

I'm looking forward to him being gone so we can get back to the game of baseball.

Although, I have to admit I hate that weasel bud selig for turning a blind eye to the steroid problem and I derived some weird pleasure at seeing his non reaction when he witnessed 755. He deserves the fact that steroids ruined this moment under his watch and he's clueless how to deal with it. Nice legacy, bud.

Anyone wanna bet that Barry didn't dare hit 756 out of town for fear some fan might destroy the ball? :)

Fucking A I'll be glad to clean house of all the shit in the bullpen and all the old guys limping around on the field next year.

But if they re-sign barry next year I don't think I can watch them.

smackaholic · Post by **smackaholic** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 1:47 pm

the best evah?

best juiced up one trick pony? yeah.

as for the best evah, he was there on the field last night, but, it sure as hell wasn't baroid.

my list of best evah....

1.willy mays
2.lou gehrig*
3.ted williams*
4.the babe*

willy is number one on combined offensive/defensive abilities.

lou, babe and ted get an * along with baroid, but, for different reasons. the babe gets the * because he, IMHO is probably the most gifted athlete to ever play the game.

He started out the best pitcher in the game. He was so fukking good, he even caused the chowds to win multiple rings. He was pulled from pitching duty because he was also the best fukking hitter in the game. All this was accomplished with a "supplement" list that included bourbon, hot dogs and cigars. The fukking guy alledgedly played hung over often. Sometimes he wasn't hung over because he was still drunk.

What would the babe have accomplished with even a half hearted attempt at a training regimen? Who knows?

Lou gets it because unlike the babe, willy, hank, 'roid and many others who hung around to pad their numbers well past their peak, he was struck down in the middle of what might be the most impressive offensive tear evah. HRs and a batting average wayyyyyy up in the 300s.

Ted spent his best years killing krauts and gooks for the USAF. No telling what kinda numbers he'd have put up had he spent those years in baseball.

Mister Bushice · Post by **Mister Bushice** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 7:04 pm

He's not alone. There are a bunch of HOF guys who cheated as well. Good luck sorting all that out.

battery chucka' one · Post by **battery chucka' one** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 7:33 pm

Mister Bushice wrote:He's not alone. There are a bunch of HOF guys who cheated as well. Good luck sorting all that out.

Is there any difference between Barry's cheating and Gaylord Perry scuffing the baseball and throwing spitters? Perry's in the HOF.

Mister Bushice · Post by **Mister Bushice** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 7:39 pm

Not as far as I'm concerned there isn't.

Anything used to enhance performance, whether it be chemical or physical alteration of equipment, is cheating.

DELSDAD · Post by **DELSDAD** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 9:11 pm

Has anyone here taken steroids?

Goober McTuber · Post by **Goober McTuber** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 9:19 pm

I think Dinsdale, BSmack and mvscal have the highest post totals. You might want to start looking at those guys.

DELSDAD · Post by **DELSDAD** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 9:23 pm

Goober McTuber wrote:I think Dinsdale, BSmack and mvscal have the highest post totals. You might want to start looking at those guys.

But can they jack homeruns? Beer league softball counts.

Mister Bushice · Post by **Mister Bushice** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 9:49 pm

Their post numbers are elevated, and mvscal definitely has roid rage symptoms.

Goober may be on to something here.

We might have to asterisk their post totals.

DELSDAD · Post by **DELSDAD** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 10:17 pm

Mister Bushice wrote:We might have to asterisk their post totals.

Would the Mods do that w/o a Mitchell investigation?

Neely8 · Post by **Neely8** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 10:53 pm

battery chucka' one wrote:
Mister Bushice wrote:He's not alone. There are a bunch of HOF guys who cheated as well. Good luck sorting all that out.
Is there any difference between Barry's cheating and Gaylord Perry scuffing the baseball and throwing spitters? Perry's in the HOF.

What Gaylord Perry did was not against the law. Not even sure if it had been outlawed by MLB at the time. Steroids are an illegal drug. Big difference......

Mister Bushice · Post by **Mister Bushice** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 11:29 pm

The outcome is the same. Illegal or not, outlawed or not. We're talking artificial performance enhancement.

If you're concerned about them being illegal drugs, you're gonna have to roll in all the cocaine and pot users as well.

Line 'em up. THAT line is a long one.

Oh, and let's not forget about greenies. How many pro athletes used those to enhance their performances, give them more endurance and energy?

Neely8 · Post by **Neely8** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 11:39 pm

Mister Bushice wrote:The outcome is the same. Illegal or not, outlawed or not. We're talking artificial performance enhancement.

If you're concerned about them being illegal drugs, you're gonna have to roll in all the cocaine and pot users as well.

Line 'em up. THAT line is a long one.

Oh, and let's not forget about greenies. How many pro athletes used those to enhance their performances, give them more endurance and energy?

Drug users who are caught have been penalized with suspensions and so forth. What ramifications has Barroid suffered?

Mister Bushice · Post by **Mister Bushice** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 11:48 pm

None, because he's never been caught.

He's also never failed a drug test.

Hell, Sheffield admitted to using it, and he's never been punished.

Giambi admitted it too, although he hasn't been fined or suspended. Selig has him dancing right now, but that's because he opened his mouth up and slammed MLB.

And shall we speak of Sosa and Mcgwire?
How about the many, many players who have used, and have never been mentioned or caught?

If you fine or suspend one person suspected of using, you have to fine/suspend em all.

DELSDAD · Post by **DELSDAD** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 2:24 am

I don't want to debate weather Barry juiced or not. I want to find out how the juice made him hit home runs. Anyone know?

Mister Bushice · Post by **Mister Bushice** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 2:43 am

It enabled him to recover from injuries quicker, and to have more strength and endurance.

You add those things together at the age of 37 plus and they equate to more healthy playing time and more home runs than anyone else ever hit at that age.

The sad thing is that they did not make him a better hitter. He already had a great eye, he still is a great hitter.

They made him healthy enough and strong enough (at an age most players decline in skills ) to break through and excel.

The real key is that when he stopped using, his body broke down and he lost a year to injury.

It's all about the enhancement.

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 3:59 am

battery chucka' one wrote:
Mister Bushice wrote:He's not alone. There are a bunch of HOF guys who cheated as well. Good luck sorting all that out.
Is there any difference between Barry's cheating and Gaylord Perry scuffing the baseball and throwing spitters? Perry's in the HOF.

For you? Yeah - the fact that Barrah is a Giant - thus your defense of him.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 5:06 am

Mister Bushice wrote:The sad thing is that they did not make him a better hitter.

Incorrect.

HGH improved his vision and hand-eye coordination... or so Barry himself said, allegedly.

Related...

Here's a list of AL MVPs

2002 Miguel Tejada Oakland SS
2001 Ichiro Suzuki Seattle RF
2000 Jason Giambi Oakland 1B
1999 Ivan Rodriguez Texas C
1998 Juan Gonzalez Texas OF
1997 Ken Griffey, Jr. Seattle OF
1996 Juan Gonzalez Texas OF
1995 Mo Vaughn Boston 1B
1994 Frank Thomas Chicago 1B
1993 Frank Thomas Chicago 1B
1992 Dennis Eckersley Oakland P
1991 Cal Ripken, Jr. Baltimore SS
1990 Rickey Henderson Oakland

Besides Cal, Jr, and Ichiro, everyone else is a suspected/confirmed juicer.

The NL MVPs

2004 Barry Bonds San Francisco LF
2003 Barry Bonds San Francisco LF
2002 Barry Bonds San Francisco LF
2001 Barry Bonds San Francisco LF
2000 Jeff Kent San Francisco 2B
1999 Chipper Jones Atlanta 3B
1998 Sammy Sosa Chicago OF
1997 Larry Walker Colorado OF
1996 Ken Caminiti San Diego 3B
1995 Barry Larkin Cincinnati SS
1994 Jeff Bagwell Houston 1B
1993 Barry Bonds San Francisco OF
1992 Barry Bonds Pittsburgh OF

Besides Larkin, every one of them is a suspected/confirmed juicer.

As much as I absolutely despise Barroid, you can't single him out.

Goober McTuber · Post by **Goober McTuber** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 5:53 pm

PSUFAN wrote:
battery chucka' one wrote:
Mister Bushice wrote:He's not alone. There are a bunch of HOF guys who cheated as well. Good luck sorting all that out.
Is there any difference between Barry's cheating and Gaylord Perry scuffing the baseball and throwing spitters? Perry's in the HOF.
For you? Yeah - the fact that Barrah is a Giant - thus your defense of him.

Gaylord Perry was also a Giant.

Mister Bushice · Post by **Mister Bushice** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 11:45 pm

Dinsdale wrote:
Mister Bushice wrote:The sad thing is that they did not make him a better hitter.

Incorrect.

HGH improved his vision and hand-eye coordination... or so Barry himself said, allegedly.

That was flaxseed oil - allegedly

Mister Bushice · Post by **Mister Bushice** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 2:20 am

If Perry picked and chose when he threw those balls, ie key moments of a game in the balance that tipped it his way to gain him a win that ultimately landed him 315 and a spot in the HOF, there is no difference between him and Barry being juiced. He is in the record books as a 300 plus HOF winning pitcher, with an asterisk. Just like Barry will be.

As for the number of balls he tossed, he wrote a book called "me and the spitter", and he actually contacted vaseline to see if they wanted him to endorse their product. They replied "We soothe babies' backsides, not baseballs" :) The dude was far more into it than you make it seem, Mace.

Greenies fall more under the bonds type of infraction than the spitballing, and so many players used them.

What it comes down to is no one will ever be satisfied because the records stand and the circumstances used to gain those records stand as well.

Really, I think it just comes down to trying to enjoy the experience and accept that this shit has gone on, is going on, and will always go on.

Perhaps if they just took a stand one way or another, made everything legal and lets see what happens, or wipe out the records of those who are caught and blackball them in the Pete Rose style.

Hell, if Barry and Perry will be in the HOF, Rose should be too. They all fixed games using different methods.

SunCoastSooner · Post by **SunCoastSooner** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 5:14 pm

I don't recognize him as the HR King, that is still Hank for me but I do respect what he has done. I haven't seen people on this board ripping McGwire...

SunCoastSooner · Post by **SunCoastSooner** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 3:28 pm

Mace wrote:
SunCoastSooner wrote:I don't recognize him as the HR King, that is still Hank for me but I do respect what he has done. I haven't seen people on this board ripping McGwire...
I think we were all a little naive and uninformed during the McGwire-Sosa HR race (probably because MLB was hyping the two in an attempt to revive the game) and think that McGwire skated because of it. Given his testimony in front of the Senate, I think he'd be receiving the same criticism as Bonds were he still playing the game and breaking records. McGwire's credibility is destroyed, IMO, and he will have a struggle making it to the HOF.....not that he won't evetually get in.

Mace

Well Mace I honestly see this a blight on baseball and not on Barry. I don't blame Barry for getting the record I lay the blame at that rat spineless bastage Bud Selig's feet. Barry did what a shit load of other players, black, white, brown, or between did, to continue to play at the same level as others were doing. Roids were not limited to hitters and it doesn't improve your hand eye coordination.

The real reason I don't recognize him as the HR king has absolutly nothing to do with riods but with the juiced ball.

I don't care for Barry the person in the least I think he is a POS but I do have a great repect for his baseball abilty with or without the supplements.

SunCoastSooner · Post by **SunCoastSooner** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 4:03 pm

Mace wrote:
SunCoastSooner wrote: Well Mace I honestly see this a blight on baseball and not on Barry. I don't blame Barry for getting the record I lay the blame at that rat spineless bastage Bud Selig's feet. Barry did what a shit load of other players, black, white, brown, or between did, to continue to play at the same level as others were doing. Roids were not limited to hitters and it doesn't improve your hand eye coordination.
I agree with you on Selig and that Barry is not the only player juicin' up....and that it's not only the hitters. I'm no expert on the effects or steroids but I made reference to eye-hand coordination because I watched an interview on tv last week and the "expert" being interviewed made that claim.

The real reason I don't recognize him as the HR king has absolutly nothing to do with riods but with the juiced ball.
Have they officially changed the specs for how tightly the ball is wound, or do you just suspect it? I know there were suspicions/allegations a few years ago when the HR stats increased, but I haven't heard much about it in the past few years. Even if it's true, they're all playing with the same ball. Not so for guys who choose to play by the rules and not 'roid up.

I don't care for Barry the person in the least I think he is a POS but I do have a great repect for his baseball abilty with or without the supplements.

I believe they juiced the ball for a couple of years when everyones numbers went up exponentially but went back to the old form after people caught wind of it.

He was a good/great player before he juiced up (allegedly) but his power numbers for someone his age go against mother nature. I don't respect anyone who is using drugs to enhance their performance and gives them superhuman strength. MLB needs to implement a state of the art drug testing program and require testing of all players if they want to clean up the game, and they need to also implement some extremely harsh penalties for the violators.

Mace

Some players also change their game as they get older. When Barry was a young player he was big time believeer in old school baseball of "hit 'em where they ain't" base hit style of batter with great speed and base running ability. As you get older you ose a step normally. I think barry started focussing on hitting the long ball a lot more when he realized he was going to be able to continue to be a grinder on the field for the next 20 years.

A lot of the points you made here are further reasons (beyond the talent gap and "revenue sharing") as to why I have pretty much completly written off MLB and show little to no interest outside of my Royals any longer.

When baseball is starting now a days I tend to be paying attention to the European soccer leagues and when it is ending football season is here. MLB will have little to no oppertunity to earn my respect and attention back in the future. MLB is one fiasco after another since I was born and I just don't have the desire or the time to deal with it. I'm thankful I was able to let go of my father's instilled bias against soccer and discover just how amazing the beautiful game really is.

Flame away cause I know it's coming...

Mister Bushice · Post by **Mister Bushice** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 9:01 pm

Do they allow aluminum bats at the HS level? That has always been a thing with me and college ball, I won't watch it. I can't stand the Aluminum bats ping! sound. Give me the craack! of the wooden bat. Plus, the inflated stats of college players using the aluminum bats, not to mention it's not a reality a college level hitter will see at the pro level.

For softball, fine. But they don't belong in baseball, IMO.

Mister Bushice · Post by **Mister Bushice** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 11:47 pm

You make a lot of good points. I'm surprised to hear that quality wood for bats is so hard to get. Is that a price issue, that the harder woods are just too expensive, or is there truly a lack of availability? The lumber companies have been managing their supply for decades, since at least the 30's. I'd think they'd see a market opportunity and work with it.

IMO usually the college and HS sports levels are far more enjoyable to watch than the pros in most cases because of the lack of controversy and bullshit that goes along with the pro level teams.

We have a AAA ball club near us, and I've seen a few games. Now that's very entertaining. Wish I had more time to see more.

So - do you ever have any trouble with pitcher injuries from the speed of the ball coming off the bat? I seem to remember 5-6 years back that was a concern with the college level game.

Mister Bushice · Post by **Mister Bushice** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 5:00 am

Interesting stuff, actually. Not being involved directly in it I wouldn't get to see that side of it.

Making the bats heavier makes sense. You'll always get the exceptions to the rule, but at least the average player no longer has the ability to cause that type of injury.

Just like humidifying the balls at Coors field. Helps to level things out, make that park more playable for visiting teams.

That wouldn't help the Giants this year, though. I think some AAA clubs could challenge them. Swept by Pittsburgh at home?

Barry is going to leave SF on a sour note. I wonder if anyone in the AL will sign him next year? He can't do shit in the outfield anymore unless he has 3 days rest beforehand.

SunCoastSooner · Post by **SunCoastSooner** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 6:40 pm

Mace wrote:
Flame away cause I know it's coming...
Nawww, I won't go there.....'cause who could really blame you for turning to soccer when your team is the KC Royals? :)

There's nothing wrong with the game of baseball, SCS, not really.

I can only take the jabs at the Royals cause even I am throwing my arms up in the air with Glass Jaw still owning the team. :-(

The game is a great game and why you see more posts each yeah from me on the college baseball board than on the MLB board. It's MLB I hate not baseball. Not many college baseball games on television though unless the tourny has started.