WolverineSteve and other Michigan homers...

[BlindRef]

I swear to God, if you say Braylon Edwards for #1, it's all over.

I have been thinking a lot about this comment and who is the best player to wear number 1 for Michigan.

Only 13 playes in the history of the program have worn the number. It is reserved for special players, Tyrone Butterfingers being the exception.

Five players that have worn the number were All Americans: Paul Goebel, Anthony Carter, Derrick Alexander, David Terrell, Braylon Edwards.

Paul Goebel played in 1922 and was an End, he is not part of the discussion.

I liked Terrell, but his numners don't stack up:

Recp Yds Y ds/Recp TD Lng
152 2317 15.2 23 57

Derrick Alexander was a lot of fun, but not as good as Carter and Edwards.

Recp Yds Yds/Recp TD Lng
125 1977 15.8 22 90


This leave us with the two greatest receivers in Michigan history, Braylon Edwards and Anthony Carter.

Anthony Carter:

Recp Yds Yds/Recp TD Lng
161 3076 19.1 37 71

and who can forget this:
[video width=400 height=350]http://www.youtube.com/v/0fDIyf4G8F4[/video]

Braylon Edwards

Recp Yds Yds/Recp TD Lng
252 3541 14.1 39 69

and who can forget this:


[video width=400 height=350]http://www.youtube.com/v/SyUimlCCbXU[/video]

Braylon has most of his success with a Freshman Quarterback.


Anthony Carter had success with a senior Wangler and a young Stephen Smith.

I don't think this is as cut and dry as Michigan elitists want it to be and I am willing to make the argument that Braylon is the best player to wear the number 1.

Your thoughts?

[Hurrigangstah]

mishigan the only team worth watching in they leeg. they got tight gear and they got brothers that represent. they still aint no miami tho.

[WolverineSteve]

AC got Bo to throw the football. He is responsible for the philosophical change in Ann Arbor from the option to modern football. Might not sound like a big deal, but it took other teams (s'up Nebraska) a couple more decades to acclimate.

AC was a three time All-America selection. He caught 4 or 5 balls per game when UM was throwing it 10-15 times per game. He ran reverses, returned punts and kickoffs. He finished in the top 10 in Heisman voting 3 years in a row.

The numbers next to each other may favor Braylon. But the eras were totally different. I think AC did more overall for the team and the program. He was alot like Woodson, in that the entire focus of the stadium was on him whenever he was on the field.

I don't dislike Braylon, hell I remember his dad vaguely (can I be that old?). He was bigger than Carter, stronger, and played in a more wide open offense. But Carter changed the way the game was played in Ann Arbor. He thrilled me as a kid when he ran back the opening kickoff in my first game at the Big House, and for these reasons and more he will always be the premiere #1 in maize and blue for me.

We're fortunate to have had both guys don the winged helmet so we can have such a debate.

Go Blue!!

[Shoalzie]

Don't forget about Greg McMurtry...8th in yards, 14th in receptions, tied for 9th in receiving TDs. I'd put him fourth in the #1 list behind Terrell, Carter and Edwards. Alexander would be 5th.

A.C. to his credit had huge receiving numbers on a team that was run heavy. For any QB or receiver to put up numbers in the Bo era is a credit to them. Braylon is part of the new age of Michigan football where the passing game is more en vogue. I never saw A.C. in a Michigan uniform...Braylon to me is the greatest receiver of the last 20 years (the years I've followed Michigan football).

I made the argument that Braylon isn't a true #1 because he only wore it two years but his most memorable years was when he switched to #1. A.C. is the orginater of the tradition of the best receiver on the team wearing the number. For a career, Braylon was the better receiver but I'm sure the sure the old school Bo guys have a special place in their hearts for A.C. Braylon did nothing his freshman year and then rolled up three straight 1000 yard, 10+ TDs, and his receptions went up all three years and had 97 catches in that legendary senior year...the greatest season a Wolverine receiver has ever had. Braylon is my #1.

[BlindRef]

You guys are smoking crack if you don't put Anthony Carter #1 on the list of Michigan #1's. He made that number special to the UM'ers.

I do love me some crack.

[peter dragon]

do all michigan fans cheer that loud and party that much when they beat Indiana? (lol)

oh and Anthony Carter went 1-3 versus Ohio State and Braylon Edwards went what 1-4..

[King Crimson]

AC got Bo to throw the football. He is responsible for the philosophical change in Ann Arbor from the option to modern football. Might not sound like a big deal, but it took other teams (s'up Nebraska) a couple more decades to acclimate.

not sure what you mean by "decades" or "acclimate". anytime after Bo quit coaching in 89, NU was still running the option and won 3 more NC's than Bo did. all with the option. if you want to say the vision was the option was dated and too much speed to the corner on D....OK. but, it's been almost a decade since NU won in 98....and 95 and 94. i give you one decade, on Bo time...starting when AC "convinced him".

Anthony Carter is older than I am. He was a GREAT college player, but i would not claim that AC/Bo represent a "sea change" in switching from the option to winning football of the "future"....when there are least 5 national championships that follow that are all about the option....and Bo has none of them.

t

[Terry in Crapchester]

AC got Bo to throw the football. He is responsible for the philosophical change in Ann Arbor from the option to modern football. Might not sound like a big deal, but it took other teams (s'up Nebraska) a couple more decades to acclimate.

not sure what you mean by "decades" or "acclimate". anytime after Bo quit coaching in 89, NU was still running the option and won 3 more NC's than Bo did. all with the option. if you want to say the vision was the option was dated and too much speed to the corner on D....OK. but, it's been almost a decade since NU won in 98....and 95 and 94. i give you one decade, on Bo time...starting when AC "convinced him".

Anthony Carter is older than I am. He was a GREAT college player, but i would not claim that AC/Bo represent a "sea change" in switching from the option to winning football of the "future"....when there are least 5 national championships that follow that are all about the option....and Bo has none of them.

t

I could be wrong about this, but I don't read Steve's post as suggesting that AC changed the entire game of college football. Rather, I read it as saying that AC changed the way Michigan played football. His parenthetical comment about Nebraska was only to point out that some programs took even longer than Michigan to discover the passing game.

In many ways, AC was the prototype for some of ND's receivers in the 80's -- Tim Brown, the Rocket, and to a lesser extent, Joe Howard -- in terms of how they were used, at a time when ND's passing game lagged behind much of the nation.

And I would agree with Steve's comments such as they are (not the larger reading you've given them, though). And since the original topic was who is Michigan's best #1, I would agree with him. I'd further point out that determining your best at a number is not always an exact science. There are some numbers where the best jumps out at you, others where the competition is significantly tighter. For me, the difference between Carter and Edwards at #1 for Michigan boils down to a simple fact. There are certain players who are, at times, larger than life, and capable of taking a game over singlehandedly. Carter was in that group. Edwards had a nice career at Michigan, but doesn't quite meet that criteria.

In this case, the numbers don't tell the whole story.

[King Crimson]

he said it "took other teams decades to acclimate"--and citing NU specifically.....i said that was an incorrect statement--with evidence based in national championships. Schembechler never won a national championship. NU won 3 championships and CU split one running the option....after this statement from Bo.

them's the facts.

i don't think NU fan would trade "slow to acclimate" for those 3 NC's.

[WolverineSteve]

TiC had it right. I meant that AC changed the way things were done at UM. UM was slow to change as it was, and many teams did not change for many years....Nebraska for example. Maybe acclimate was a poor choice of words, what I was going for was a general disbelief in the forward pass as a viable offensive weapon. NC's aside, for Bo to make a philisophical change took one helluva special kid. AC was that and then some. Braylon was special, AC took it to another level.

[WolverineSteve]

Don't forget about Greg McMurtry...8th in yards, 14th in receptions, tied for 9th in receiving TDs. I'd put him fourth in the #1 list behind Terrell, Carter and Edwards. Alexander would be 5th.

.

Terrell, Alexander, and McMurtry don't even belong in this discussion. Carter made the number special. D.A., D.T. and others had to earn the number. Why? Because it was made special by one cat. His name was Anthony Carter. Braylon Edwards would admit that he is no Anthony Carter.

[Qbert]

agreed!

with that said...FUCK MICHIGAN!

Y'all have a great season...'til Nov. 17th.

[King Crimson]

TiC had it right. I meant that AC changed the way things were done at UM. UM was slow to change as it was, and many teams did not change for many years....Nebraska for example. Maybe acclimate was a poor choice of words, what I was going for was a general disbelief in the forward pass as a viable offensive weapon. NC's aside, for Bo to make a philisophical change took one helluva special kid. AC was that and then some. Braylon was special, AC took it to another level.

actually, the poor choice of words was "decades". Bo was not ahead of his time, as you admit. which decades?

your original post makes it sound like he was way ahead of the curve. and "NC's aside", you said it not me.
it may have took Nebraska longer than some to (as TiC says) "discover the passing game".....but the Bugeaters did win 3 national championships after the point at which you guys seem to be pointing as the end of the "failure to recognize the passing game".

i would agree with Carter at #1, though Braylon Edwards was a real stud.