My Son's First MMA

KC Scott · Post by **KC Scott** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 7:00 pm

My oldest (21) has been training with House of Pain here in KC for 4 months
He's got his first fight March 2 - they're trying to get him matched up at 135 - He'll have to cut 17 lbs but he's 5'10 or at 145
He was a decent wrestler in HS, so he might do OK

Any KC people interested (Don't know if I've seen any KC people in here) interested - I'll give them the details

Rack Fu · Post by **Rack Fu** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 4:34 pm

Best of luck to your boy. He should have a decided reach advantage if he's going to fight at 135 and he's 5'10". Damn, tell that boy to start eating and lifting.

The problem with wrestlers first starting out in MMA is that they really, REALLY dislike being on their back. It takes a long time to break that habit. I think wrestling is a great foundation for MMA though.

If he hasn't already started jiu-jitsu training, do it ASAP. You cannot survive in MMA without it. You don't need to be a Gracie black belt but having a base understanding of how to defend yourself against a BJJ fighter is paramount to succeeding. He'll also start to learn a few submission and offensive maneuvers as well.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 7:39 pm

Rack Fu wrote: The problem with wrestlers first starting out in MMA is that they really, REALLY dislike being on their back. It takes a long time to break that habit. I think wrestling is a great foundation for MMA though.

Truer words never spoken.

I know that guy...or those guys.

What is sound defense in freestyle wrestling, is death in MMA. When you get into hardcore competitive judo, it can develop some bad habits as well.

And as Fu mentioned, despite its excellent training for ground control/positioning techniques, when wrestlers cross over, they find that aside from dropping punches from mount(without the training that keeps those punching arms from getting isolated, or shoving their head straight into a triangle ,"sankaku jime" in Japanese) they really have no offense whatsoever.

But a talented wrassler is always going to be a force to be dealt with.

KC Scott · Post by **KC Scott** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 8:49 pm

From what he's telling me, they are having a tough time matching him up at 135 so looks like he'll fight at 145 instead. I'm glad he's not cutting 17 lbs, I think that takes too much out of them.

As for the the JJ, the instructor has mainly had him working on the basics; Guillotine counter to the double leg, rear naked application and defense, arm bars and Kamuras.

I rolled around with him some and he's a strong little shit for his size. He rolled out of the first arm bar I put him in, so I ratcheted down the second and got him to tap.

Watching him shadow box, he's got quick hands. a lot quicker than I expected, we'll have to see how he does with them in the ring.

I told him to ask his instructor to teach him muay tai clinch and to throw knees and elbows. With his height, at that weight he should be able to do some damage if he learns that.

We're pretty stoked to see him do it - So far 11 of the family and friends have already bought tickets. They have the fighters sell them and then give them 30% of whatever they sell. It offsets the $100 per month they charge them to train.

Even if he gets his ass kicked, I'm really proud of him for doing this. Since he started training for this, he's grown up a hell of a lot, changed his circle of freinds and is taking a lot more personnal responsability for his future. It's been one of the best things he's ever gotten into.

Rack Fu · Post by **Rack Fu** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 1:26 am

I like to grapple with wrestlers who are new to JJ because they always fall into the same traps. They can be a handful to deal with because a good wrestler can blanket you and control you for awhile. They also have good escapes if you get their back. It's just a matter of time before they leave an arm dangling out there for an armbar or triangle And if you get mount, forget it as they're clueless since the longest time they've spent on their back was the time it took to get pinned.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 1:42 am

KC Scott wrote:rear naked defense

Since someone has to say it...

The best defense against the rear naked is to not get put in a rear naked.

I like to grapple with wrestlers who are new to JJ because they always fall into the same traps. It's just a matter of time before they leave an arm dangling out there for an armbar or triangle.

I'm chuckling. In gaurd, they always want to push away with one arm. If they're strong, they then twist right on into the triangle, don't they just?

Sounds like my old grappling crew is looking to hook it up like the old days. Not sure if my overly-abused body is down for that or not.

At any rate, sounds like you and yours are having a good time with it, Scott. As long as you can still whip your boy, it's all good. If you can't, make sure to remind him you let him win. And tell him not to block high kicks with his face.

Rack Fu · Post by **Rack Fu** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 1:47 am

KC Scott wrote: As for the the JJ, the instructor has mainly had him working on the basics; Guillotine counter to the double leg, rear naked application and defense, arm bars and Kamuras.

I told him to ask his instructor to teach him muay tai clinch and to throw knees and elbows. With his height, at that weight he should be able to do some damage if he learns that.

If he keeps at that weight, by all means make sure he uses his height. He'll probably have four to six inches on anyone he fights at that weight. Definitely a distinct advantage from a muay thai perspective. Taller people also have an advantage from the guard because they can get those legs doing things that shorter people can't - from both an offensive and defensive standpoint.

KC Scott · Post by **KC Scott** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 2:54 am

Dinsdale wrote:
At any rate, sounds like you and yours are having a good time with it, Scott. As long as you can still whip your boy, it's all good. If you can't, make sure to remind him you let him win. And tell him not to block high kicks with his face.

We roll around, but nothing serious. I've got 50lbs and 22 yrs on him but he is getting strong.
As for kicks, he is getting them up about chest level on me , but I told him to just concentrate on leg kicks -
almost every dude I see throwing high kicks these days ends up on his ass.

If he keeps at that weight, by all means make sure he uses his height. He'll probably have four to six inches on anyone he fights at that weight. Definitely a distinct advantage from a muay thai perspective. Taller people also have an advantage from the guard because they can get those legs doing things that shorter people can't - from both an offensive and defensive standpoint.

Yea, I showed him the Anderson Silva / Franklin fight and he was really into how silva worked Ace over.
I really don't know much about that style, other than keep that clinch tight, your elbows in and after enough knees to the solar plexes, the dude will double over

The only thing he knows from guard, at least that I've seen, is to tie the guy up and roll or switch out.
If he is on his back for long, I'm thinking he's in trouble.

I'm going to try and record his fight, if they let me and put it up

KC Scott · Post by **KC Scott** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:37 am

Jack (my son) found out his first opponent:

here's the kid he's fighting - and a video

http://www.cavemanmmacrew.com/adam_stickly.htm

Looks like Adam leads with his chin, is vulnerable to knees, body shots and take downs.

Jack's coming over to breakdown the video, anyone else see anything?

Rack Fu · Post by **Rack Fu** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:20 am

KC Scott wrote:Jack (my son) found out his first opponent:

here's the kid he's fighting - and a video

http://www.cavemanmmacrew.com/adam_stickly.htm

Looks like Adam leads with his chin, is vulnerable to knees, body shots and take downs.

Jack's coming over to breakdown the video, anyone else see anything?

Before I criticize, props to anyone that'll step into a cage and fight. It takes balls.

That said...

That kid your son is fighting appears to want to be a standup fighter, except he's fucking terrible at it. He leans back while throwing punches and punches off his back foot - which zaps all the power off his punch and means he's afraid to get hit. He managed to execute a submission but only because the other guy he was fighting was slightly more talented than a drunken bar brawler. That dude put himself into a bad position first by leading with his head into the guillotine choke and then flipping into a full mount and then rolling over and giving up his back. It was real sloppy.

Your kid is a wrestler, right? He needs to shoot in (properly and not giving the guy a gift wrapped choke) with a single or double leg takedown, smother the kid and pound him. Your kid isn't that well versed in submissions so tell him to not get fancy unless something is absolutely there for the taking. Your boy may eat a shot or two but this Adam kid has no power and it looks like he was gassing. Tell your boy to take a page from Matt Hughes when Hughes was first starting. Takedown - control opponent - pound 'em. He'll eventually add some submissions and striking. If he does have to stand for awhile, have your boy use his height and work in some leg kicks on that kid's thighs. That'll soften him up for a takedown.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 4:56 pm

Rack Fu wrote:Before I criticize, props to anyone that'll step into a cage and fight. It takes balls.

What Fu said.

I'd have to study this a lot more.

But that dude is making huge mistake after huge mistake. If your son (who might become T1B's adopted "favorite fighter"...you never know) doesn't get wrapped up in the excitement, and keeps his wits about him, he shopuld be able to capitalize.

For now, I'll just go with "what Fu said." Keep it simple, and stick with what you know. If Jack is a wrassler, than wrassle him.

Fuck, Jack better be able to pull it off...since I'm fairly confident MY old, haven't-trained-in-years ass could kick the dude in the video's ass. Wouldn't stand and exchange with the guy, but he made so many freaking mistakes, he should* be easy-pickin's.

If dude tried to bring those muay-thai knees up from the standing chlinch, like in the early part of that video...Jack needs to PUNISH him for it. That's not good position to be attemting those knees, since the spacing is bad. From that inside position, if they do land, they'll be ineffective, and a guy with a wrestling backgroud won't need my advice on what to do if the opponent serves that out-of-balance knee up in the wheelhouse. If that guy tries that shit, Jack should be able to unleash a single-leg from hell, that puts him in a very dominant position. BUT REMEMBER -- against a submission guy, single and double leg takedowns can be dangerous. NO competitive fighter should EVER lose to a guillotine(we laugh our asses off every time it happens in UFC, since that's Day 1 Lesson). If he gets a leg for a takedown(I'm sure he already knows, but it's crucial to remember), the head turns towards the inside. NEVER let the whole head get outside, and NEVER turn it to the outside. Head to the inside = no guillotine. Head outside = choke or neckcrank. (I'm not sure I explained that very well. But it should be review for someone who is stepping into the ring.) In freestyle wrestling, putting the head to the side of the opponent's body and driving with the shoulder makes for a more powerful takedown...in MMA, it gets you killed.

And the guy also put his head where it shouldn't have been quite a few times, although without a strong submission background, it will be harder to take advantage of.

* -- But I'm pretty freaking sure there's a reason they have the fights in a cage, and not on paper.

Damn...we might be able to have a serious amount of good times if we get to play "armchair corner man" to Jack.

KC Scott · Post by **KC Scott** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 6:39 pm

Since Stickly doesn't list his stats - I'm having a hard time judging how tall the kid is from the vid.

Jack was told he'll have to fight at 155 - so that doesn't play to him having the height advantage.

As for striking, I see the Stickly leading with his chin, and leaving his midsection wide open. Also, he doesn't look strong - at least in this video, beacuse the dude he was fighting controlled his body weight in the clinch pretty well. If that dude had known any throws / leverage whatsoever he'd have had stickly on his back when they bounced off the cage (Stickly breifly gave up his back right after that)

I have'nt seen Jack fight or spar in MMA, only rolled around with him since he got going in this. I've got 50lbs on him and he managed to tie me up with a double underhook from the bottom. He is a strong little shit. His strategy down there, if he gets on his back, is to try and tie up and have the ref stand them both back up.

His trainers say he should dominate - they've seen the Stickly kid fight before.

KC Scott · Post by **KC Scott** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:51 pm

Found the video of stickley's other fight:

http://www.cavemanmmacrew.com/video_clips.htm

It's about 1/3 of the way down the page under Video Clips

Adam Stickly vs. Chad Vanderberg

Jack and I just watched both - he's feeling pretty confident based on what he sees.
Also found out I'll be able to video the fight - so you guys will be able to see how the coaching pays off

Rack Fu · Post by **Rack Fu** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 4:35 am

Can't wait!

KC Scott · Post by **KC Scott** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 7:28 pm

Jack lost last night - taken out with a rear naked at about 1:42.

He burned up a shitload of energy before the fight even started - He called me 3 hours before the fight and was freaking about all the people - There was a crowd of about 3,000. Worse, he was the 7th fight scheduled and they had a 15 minute intermission before his fight.

He never really even got into his fight plan. Based on the vids of Stickley, I told Jack to stay on his feet and let Stickly punch himself out for the first minute or two - The Stickly kid had about 3" on Jack, so he changed his game plan and shot a takedown from way too far out, way too early and got mounted and pounded. Jack took a lot of shots and couldn't get him guard. When he finally rolled out he didn't get his arm up and gave up the choke.

We're still proud of him for getting in there - he's ready to go again in next month's card.

Here's the vid - It's not great as yelling and filming are difficult combination:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 3743054503

Rack Fu · Post by **Rack Fu** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 6:17 am

Well, now he's been there and knows what to expect. His nerves won't get the best of him the next time.

That acidosis can be a motherfucker.

OCmike · Post by **OCmike** » Sun Mar 11, 2007 4:01 am

Who's that idiot in the background that keeps shouting, "Lock him up, Jack"? Jesus, that was annoying. :D

I'm a casual fan of UFC (never paid for it, but rent them from the video store), but the OL and I both love the sport.

Your son put up a great fight, even though he didn't come out on top. He's got a hell of a lot of balls to even attempt something like UFC. You should be proud.

One piece of advice (which you can either take or tell me to fuck off)... When you're at your son's matches, call him by his name only...for two reasons.

1. It makes him seem like a kid when you call him "son".

2. If I knew my opponent had his old man watching ringside, it would fuel me to want to embarrass him in front of his family, if I was fighting him in UFC.

Zyclone · Post by **Zyclone** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:11 am

From what I see in the video Jack needs to get comfortable on his back and work on shrimping his way out of a mount. The second he went to his belly it was over. Every wrestler I know does that and gets RNCed everytime.

He's gonna have to reprogram his mind that your belly aint your friend. If you need any tips let me know.

http://www.grapplearts.com/grappling-dr ... load-1.htm

KC Scott · Post by **KC Scott** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 10:41 pm

Here's another video of the fight, this one shot by the caveman crew:

http://www.cavemanmmacrew.com/video_clips.htm

Under:

CLASH IN THE CAGE
TRUE FIGHT FAN SHOW
PROMOTERS - PHIL JONES - LARRY REYES
March 2007
It's halfway down the page "Adam Stickley VS"

Last weekend Jack went to a 2 day camp ran by Pat Militich, he had Brad Immes with him.
Said he picked up a lot of good stuff. He also said Immes is huge.

OCmike wrote:Who's that idiot in the background that keeps shouting, "Lock him up, Jack"? Jesus, that was annoying.

LOL - Yea - Jack said next fight (April 6) "Dad don't yell - your the only person I could hear"
I told him his coaches need to yell louder.

Zyclone wrote:From what I see in the video Jack needs to get comfortable on his back and work on shrimping his way out of a mount. The second he went to his belly it was over. Every wrestler I know does that and gets RNCed everytime.

The big thing he did'nt do when he went to his belly was get that arm up to block the RNC.
That's gotta be second nature or he's gonna get choked out every time.

Cool vid site on the "shrimping" - Thanks Zy.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:31 pm

Zyclone wrote:From what I see in the video Jack needs to get comfortable on his back and work on shrimping his way out of a mount. The second he went to his belly it was over. Every wrestler I know does that and gets RNCed everytime.

He's gonna have to reprogram his mind that your belly aint your friend. If you need any tips let me know.

http://www.grapplearts.com/grappling-dr ... load-1.htm

First off, let me state that my computer media shit is messed up, and I can't watch the vid, so no direct critque until I figure that out.

Next...I just could not agree any more strongly with Zy here. I may be a frequent Zy-basher, but dude knows what he's talking about when it comes to grappling.

With the meteoric explosion in the popularity of MMA, it seems like guys are rushing into the ring. There has been an incease in both the level of skill at the top, and the lack of skill at the bottom. My motivation here is not wanting to see Jack fall into the latter category, since he's obviously rapidly becoming/has become the Official MMA Fighter of T1B. He needs to win some belts to represent us proud. Dude already has a national fan base, abeit a small one.

But that shrimping drill he linked up is so freaking key, it can't be overstated(I have no idea if he does this already, maybe he does). Back "in my day," my bestest buddy taught grappling(still does, actually, on a very small scale). When his friends would approach him for lessons, the first requirement was that they did 100 shrimps on each side every day for a week before they could even come to class. The advanced students were required to do 100 per day on each side.

You're not always going to be in a strong position of control, as much as we'd like to be. When we're not, the shrimp is probably the most valuable move there is. It starts pretty much every defensive move there is. Escaping out the side starts with a shrimp. Sweeping from guard starts with a shrimp. If nothing else, those two moves save your ass most of the time...there's countless options, but those two are a great place to start, since you've gotta walk before you can run.

A couple of things on that awesome shrimping vid -- I was taught slightly different from that, in that as the legs straightened, I kept the elbows fairly close to the thighs, so as to "sweep" the opponent's hands away from the legs if he tried to grab on while I'm pushing away. Very very slight difference, but just something I noticed. As the arms push away at the end of the shrimp, it's a slightly more circular motion(if that makes sense?) so the elbows kind of skim along the tops of your thighs, like I said, just as a precaution against someone trying to grab there and slow down the escape. Minor thing, though.

I guess they didn't really cover it in that vid, but I'm sure they teach it...once you get comfortable with it and the shrimp becomes automatic second nature, you can work on emphasising a more "explosive" finish -- really throwing some meat behind straightening out at the end, but remembering to never "explode" to where the joints involved hit the8ir stops and are extended all the way (never tempt fate). But a strong finish rather than a lazy one to a shrimp makes it all the more effective move, and you get this by practice, practice, practice(sup not Dins in many years).

I've shrimp what seems like miles across a gym floor. That vid was like old times. Back in the judo days, we'd also do the same distance reverse-shrimping, which developes the opposing muscles to balance the ones built up by shrimping(that's basic working out 101, right?). If a person doesn't have a gymnasium handy, an alternative drill is to shrimp in place. Shrimp out to the right side, pause, then reverse-shrimp(which is planting the foot, and "taking back" the shrimp you just did, and returning to the starting position). Then, do another to the left. Do 100 of them.

As far as one single ground move standing on its own merit, I can't think of a better one to master than the shrimp...so simple, but so crucial....hence Zy wisely posting the video, be it review or not.

What a great thread/story line you've created here, Scott. Fun stuff. And dammit, the T1B MMA Forum WILL coach Jack to the world title. Bank on it. Soon, he'll make it to the UFC, or some huge PPV event, and he'll walk out of the tunnel, and he and his entourage will be sporting "Team T1B" shirts....maybe with a little Snatch Serpent logo on the chest.

It will be glorious.

Zyclone · Post by **Zyclone** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 3:55 am

Thanks Dinds when I saw that video of Jack I wanted to omplatta his coaches ass!

Jack needs to take it slow and learn all he can to the point its 2nd nature.

Scott, one of my best friends is the trainer/conditioner of Roger Gracie(best BJJ man on the planet right now) if you are interested I could have him contact you and help Jack out. He isnt cheap but well worth the $$

h

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 5:12 pm

Arm bar from guard -- starts with a shrimp.

Triangle from guard -- starts with a shrimp.

Plenty of others, too, but walk before you run....the side escape, the sweep from guard, then the armbar/triangle "option play" from guard...

Like Zy says...those need to become truly second nature before a guy can be taken seriously on the mat.

Anyone can rain down the puh-pow from a dominant position. Winners don't let themselves get puh-powed(sup Rodrigo Medeiros catch-phrase for dropping blows on the groud) when they're not in as good position.

Shrimp shrimp shrimp. If I ever lost a matchup due to lack of shrimping, my metors would beat me silly themselves.

I guiess what I'm saying is...

When in doubt, start shrimping. When he gets the shrimp down to a science, then he'll start working on pinning one side of the opponent's body down, and shrimping the other way. When you work out with experts, it's mind-boggling how many different ways they'll have to slip right out of any position you can put them in...just amazing. My old partner/mentor has these freak-of-nature double-jointed knees/legs, and he'll drop a hands-free leglock on the unsuspecting, just from getting free with the shrimp(which is just psycho to watch, and usually gets a pretty funny reaction from the victim). And to develop this sick move, he had to learn how to shrimp(although he was a little kid when he got that stuff down).

SHRIMP!

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 5:20 pm

Oh, and don't dismiss Zy's idea about personal training. Even just a couple of days with private/small group lessons(which can ease the expense) can make HUGE improvements very quickly.

I know this...I've been that guy.

And not to sound elitist or trendy, but I've found the Brazilians(I'm familiar with guys from the Carlson Gracie team, but they don't have the market cornered on good training) just have a different philosophy towards teaching. At the core, there's few differences in any submission grappling styles("Gracie" Jui Jitsu is just slimmed down, field-tested judo, refined over the years). But the Brazilians don't cater to the heirarchy so much, and have really stripped things down to where they just teach as quickly and effectively as possible, whereas a lot of the Japanese-based schools/clubs get a little too carried away with the traditional aspects(not that there's anything wrong with that...I always enjoyed the rich traditions while doing judo).

Maybe Jack can find some other interested parties, and can either visit or fly in an expert instructor for a few days of intensive training. Several of my friends did that very thing many years ago(a champion of both the Rio and Brazilian Jui Jitsu Championships...pretty serious credentials, actually), but he was friends with one of the guys, so he did it more for a vacation than for profit.

I guess the bottom line is -- learn as much as you can from as many people as you can.

And practice the shrimp.

KC Scott · Post by **KC Scott** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:02 am

Jack is fighting again April 6. He was over this weekend and yea, the shrimping is one of the first things they work on after they finish cardio. I told him what you guys wrote and showed him the link. I couldn't tell if his instructors put a huge emphasis on it or if he was just like "yea, we practice it" and didn't take it as seriously as other aspects. In either case, I'm staying on his ass about it every time we talk.

He knows nothing about the kid he fights next except his name, Chad White and that he's 0-1 same as Jack. Maybe that's good - there's no video for us to hunt and break down.

Jack says he going to try and keep his feet this time, worked on a lot of striking at the Millitich camp and now during practice. We'll see how that pans out.

On a side note, he's going to a 6 month Fire Science course this fall, the end goal being to go to work as a firefighter in Independence upon graduation.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 6:07 pm

KC Scott wrote:Jack says he going to try and keep his feet this time, worked on a lot of striking at the Millitich camp and now during practice. We'll see how that pans out.

I'm not trying to be a dick, but...

He came up short in the grappling/submission department...

so his new strategy is to focus on staying standing?

Uhm...sounds like it might be possible that he may have already taken too many blows to the head.

There's been some form of MMA events for literally thousands of years (the Ancient Olympics were based around it). In those literally thousands of years, all of the great champions have had one thing in common...

and it wasn't saying "I'll just make him stand up and swing with me."

Zyclone · Post by **Zyclone** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 5:46 pm

Dinsdale wrote:
KC Scott wrote:Jack says he going to try and keep his feet this time, worked on a lot of striking at the Millitich camp and now during practice. We'll see how that pans out.

I'm not trying to be a dick, but...

He came up short in the grappling/submission department...

so his new strategy is to focus on staying standing?

Uhm...sounds like it might be possible that he may have already taken too many blows to the head.

There's been some form of MMA events for literally thousands of years (the Ancient Olympics were based around it). In those literally thousands of years, all of the great champions have had one thing in common...

and it wasn't saying "I'll just make him stand up and swing with me."

Rack!

To be honest if he is taking that approach he will not go anywhere in the ring. I personally think the Militech fighting system is a joke and it only benifits the people who actually train at the camp it self.

Jack should think about putting off his fights until he gets a few belts under his wing in BJJ. I would reccomend he not even think about the ring until he atleast got a blue belt(on average it takes 1-2 years to earn depending on his dedication) and rework his entire ground game. Getting RNCed in his first match is not a promising start. That in it self is the most humiliating thing that can happen to a fighter.

Find a good BJJ club in the area not a bastardized place like he is training at now. He is gonna have to change his entire approach and be willing to learn all over again. If he isnt open to learning the basics and most proven arts he is just wasting your time and his brain cells.

KC Scott · Post by **KC Scott** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:04 pm

Yea - I'm not convinced the stand up thing is going to work either, but it's his thing to decide - not mine.

This all started out as a hobby for him, and to keep it in perspective, it's probably the best thing he's ever gotten himself into as far as learning self discipline and dedication. I think this is about a lot more than just fighting - it's about him turning from a kid into a man.

I'm sure not harboring any illusion of ever seeing him on the the Ultimate Fighter, and if all he does is stick with this and keep improving here on a local level, I'll be happy.

I really think he just needs to get more cage experience. He burned up 70% of his energy in that last fight before he even got in the ring. I'm looking for improvement in this next bout - if I see it I'll know.

Right now the KC MMA scene is blowing up. There has got to be at least 7 or 8 different clubs fighting here. If he's not seeing any improvement after a couple more fights, I'll recommend he start looking into some of the others.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:18 pm

Zyclone wrote:I would reccomend he not even think about the ring until he atleast got a blue belt(on average it takes 1-2 years to earn depending on his dedication)

In case anyone is curious, I was pretty well prepped for my blue belt test when I blew up my lower back (working, not training), and after that long road to recover, was never the same since. I also busted up my ribcage at about the same time(not working or training...some really huge tweeker dude was beating up his OL in the bar parking lot, and I intervened, when I already had some cracked ribs...got those drunk-camping)). I was really chomping at the bit to take the test, after seeing the pics of my training buds being presented with belts by Carlson Gracie Sr.

But, I made the transition from Judo, which has more of a philosophical difference with BJJ, rather than physical ones. Same ideas about the 6 positions of grappling(although that whole "pull your gi over your head and lay on your stomach" in sport judo is kinda lame, but it wins matches, which is what you're trying to do in any sport).

But as Zy is alluding to, there is no shortcut around having ground game. The laws of physics tell us that you can't force a man to stand and exchange with you, but you can sure as heck force him to the ground to grapple. There's essentailly 6 positions you can be in, once engaged. All grappling positions are variations of these(you have the opponent in front, rear, or side control, or the opponent has you in one...guard is a very weak version of front control). A fighter HAS to have a few contingencies for each of these positions, which are dictated by what the opponent gives you, basically.

In my not-quite-expert opinion, the most important thing to start with is learning the whole arm bar or triangle from guard moves. Fairly basic, and very effective as offense from a defensive position. BUT....I'd leave that decision in the hands of a BJJ trainer. I won't neccessarily say that BJJ is definitely superior to other grappling styles(most of them are pretty much the same), but it just seems like a good BJJ instructor has a way of imparting thwe most knowledge in the shortest amount of time, which is where the "dominance" of BJJ lies...it's been their focus on improving teaching techniques rather than any great innovations that have earned them the reputation they have.

And the other factor that makes BJJ/submission grappling a better thing to focus on is the level at which you practice it. I can learn a new armbar, and I don't have to take it to where an elbow snaps to have basically practiced at 100%...just because you stop a couple of inches short of hyperextending, it doesn't mean you're any less effective with the move. Any sort of striking, on the other hand, can't truly be practiced at 100%(if it is, find a new gym). With striking, when you learn new stuff, you haven't really actually worked on a "complete move" until you've actually knocked someone out with it...you've only learned it in theory. Which is always the laugher in military hand-to-hand training...yeah, buddy...you've practiced that "one-handed death grip" thingy...sure.

Sound grappling technique is just a more reliable "system" than striking. Although, a guy does need to have plenty of striking skills to have a chance in the ring...since familiarity is the best defense against any technique.

So, I guess I'm saying I agree with Zy wholeheartedly(which pains me, but that's neither here nor there).

And if MY almost-40, haven't trained in a few years ass is fairly confident I'd take Jack to school, he should probably train a little more before he takes on more fights. That's not what he wants to hear, but I think if he's really passionate about his future career, it would be for the best. At his age, he's got quite a future ahead of him, if that's what he wants. Why mar his future reputation with losses on his record that come from being not-quite-prepared?

Two things you should NEVER lose to -- a rear naked, and a guillotine. No excuse for either. If an opponent is that much better than you, so be it...shake his hand and call it a day...but don't let him clown you with rookie moves.

Zyclone · Post by **Zyclone** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:29 pm

Heres a Vid of a guy I train with. Doug is all of 130 pounds and is impossible to submit. He's been doing BJJ for about 8 months but is a true student of the game. Jack really needs to understand the ground game and not basic GNP and 1st grade submissions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdzZFYtLAfA

I thought Doug broke the dudes neck for a second.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 4:50 pm

Zyclone wrote:Heres a Vid of a guy I train with. Doug is all of 130 pounds and is impossible to submit. He's been doing BJJ for about 8 months but is a true student of the game.

Pretty sweet. After 8 months, that's really a tribute to his teachers. Dude stuck with what he knew, and worked the game he did have to perfection. Kinda reinforces my point that if nothing else, if you work out a few armbars and triangle moves from guard, it makes everything else easier. No matter how badly things go, you've always got some offense to fall back on. Once you become proficient at a couple of those moves, over time you learn more. Then more. Then when you're messing around, you get in some weird position, and figure out some weird new way to shrimp into a favorable position...then it just keeps growing.

But every journey begins with the first step. Learn the escapes.

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 5:59 pm

KC Scott wrote:My oldest (21) has been training with House of Pain here in KC for 4 months

Did anyone else think of Kip when they read that?

Good luck to your son.

KC Scott · Post by **KC Scott** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 9:33 pm

For anyone interested, Jack hurt his lower back in practice last week so pulled off last night's card. Nothing serious - sounded like he just strained some muscles.

He's planning on fighting on the May card.

KC Scott · Post by **KC Scott** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 4:47 pm

Jack fought in July - it was a fight he too on short notice at Lake of the Ozarks - so I wasn't able to make it and see it live. We finally just got the DVD from the promoter and got it up on google:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 3124966870

Jack's really worked on his defense and it shows. He shrimped out pretty well and you see him going for a couple different chokes from the bottom.
I guess there's some controversy on this one as the guy said he hadn't passed out before the bell. But it's a win.
We all gave him huge amount of shit for not being able to scale the cage at the end of thie fight
Jack's record now at 1-1

My Son's First MMA

My Son's First MMA

Re: My Son's First MMA