Rob Paul planning to teabag Boston?

[Dinsdale]

So I can burn down churches as an exercise of my "Constitutionally protected right to be free from religion"?

I dunno -- is said church on public property?

If so, the answer is still "no" -- but the church would need to be removed immediately, and the public official who authorized its contruction prosecuted for flagrant dereliction of duty.


Pretty simple, really, unless you try and spin it otherwise.

[Dinsdale]

As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion

Sorry, thumpers, but it's true. Even made a treaty to that æffect.

[Dinsdale]

Government should not prefer one religion to another, or religion to irreligion.

I'll help you out with the parts you're struggling with, thumpers.

[Mike the Lab Rat]

Bible study flyers must be torn down from a school bulletin board?? bwaaa ....

AFAIK, as long as it's students putting the flyers up and as long as the district allows other similar groups to put their flyers up, there is no legal reason for the district to tear them down.

Our district allowed a student-started Bible study group to meet on school grounds before school every week. The kids wanted to use my classroom, so I let them. The only stipulation that the district lawyers had was that I not -in any way- to lead any of the meetings.

BTW, on the topic of Jefferson:

The delusion into which the X. Y. Z. plot shewed it
possible to push the people; the successful experiment made under the
prevalence of that delusion on the clause of the constitution, which,
while it secured the freedom of the press, covered also the freedom
of religion, had given to the clergy a very favorite hope of
obtaining an establishment of a particular form of Christianity thro'
the U. S.; and as every sect believes its own form the true one,
every one perhaps hoped for his own, but especially the Episcopalians
& Congregationalists. The returning good sense of our country
threatens abortion to their hopes, & they believe that any portion of
power confided to me, will be exerted in opposition to their schemes.
And they believe rightly; for I have sworn upon the altar of god,
eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.

The fundies weren't big fans of TJ back in his day, and he sure as hell wasn't big fans of theirs either. Anybody trying to ever spin it any other way is either ignorant or lying.

[Mister Bushice]

The curriculum is decided upon by the local district.
The people, under the Constitution, are to have FREEDOM to educate their children in a manner decided upon by THEM, not the fed gov.
The government is merely there to protect the people.

No real disagreement there. As a matter of fact I think NCLB is a joke. You?

If there is a largely muslim community, and the district (the PEOPLE) have decided that they wish to educate their kids and use the koran as a 'guide' for the education process, more power to 'em.

When religion takes the place of essential curriculum elements IE classes REQUIRED To prepare kids for a college education and a future career, I disagree. Further more, if 51% of the people decide this, you've got a SERIOUS problem on your hands. Majority? Bullshit.

I'm not a bigot.

We know. You're a race traitor, though.

They can talk about the koran, respect the koran, reference the koran.
Nothing that is happening there is establishing Islam as a relgion.

And if a parent in the district does not like the education situation he has two choices.

1. leave
2. grow a pair of balls

Leaving is not always a viable option for people who have family, roots, jobs in the area.

And now you're altering the tone of your argument. There is a BIG difference between comprehending the structure and history of a religion, and teaching it to potential converts. Once you begin teaching beliefs, you ARE establishing religion.

The Day that knowledge of religions becomes required reading at colleges and universities, I'm voting yes to teaching, but NOT preaching.

However the Bible, The Koran, etc. etc. etc. are currently not higher educational REQUIREMENTS, unless you are planning on entering the associate priesthoods of the above named religions. English, Math, Science, etc etc. are basic requirements of ALL college and universities.

Do you expect school districts would be able to hire religion teachers that wouldn't try to recruit through teaching? Are you kidding? That would the #1 GOAL of every religion, to get a teacher in there to RECRUIT.
Why should I have my kids waste time learning something that will bring them NO benefit for their future? If they were brought up right, they don't need any religion as a moral compass, and if they are curious about religions, there are many ways to learn without replacing key courses with an "All About Allah Hour"

Do you actually think that there wouldn't be lawsuits and major fights over who gets to have what religion taught if 51% of people voted their religion into the classroom? Religion has a way of bringing out the hate in people. Math hardly ever does that, except maybe at a really competitive math meet.

If a child has that level of interest, perhaps a Catholic or Muslim school would be more appropriate, just the same as Military training. You don't go to public school to be a Soldier. You shouldn't go there to be a priest, or a wide eyed follower.

Teaching about religion and war as part of a history curriculum wouldn't be out of line, as long as all other mandated requirements were met. Students who wanted to meet in a non school sponsored bible study class should be able to, but taxpayer dollars should not pay to educate them, and campuses should not be turned into a Religious food court.

I feel the same way about languages. I don't want my kids wasting time learning Latin, or French. Both are a total waste of time in America. Spanish has become the only practical second language to learn, thanks to the silent Mexican invasion.

Now THERE's a group of people who know who to fuck a voting bloc into existence.

[poptart]

Uhm, pop -- freedom FROM religion was already in place BEFORE the Constitution was ratified, and was a basic tenet of the First Amendment. So sorry you had to find out this way. The precedent was set before there even was a Supreme Court... but hey, don't let FACTS get in the way of a good thumping-session.

Oh, is that so?

Why was the Bible routinely used as reference in schools from the very beginning of American history, and why was prayer a common occurance in public schools all the way until the 1960's?


Try again ... or not.

[Dinsdale]

Wow. You been hanging with Truman, pop?


Uhm... the SCOTUS doesn't actually just pick topics at random to adress. Someone actually has to bring it to them first.


Answer me this -- if there truly is a God in Heaven, why did he pick the dumbest-of-the-dumb to spread His message?

[Mister Bushice]

Define freedom FROM religion.

To start with, All images of Tammy Fae Baker that exist should be destroyed.

Second, all athletes who just won something should not be allowed to thank God during the post victory interview for helping them gain 100 yards or to win the Toyota SUV by becoming the MVP. They should thank the slave owner who bred their great great grandparents instead.

Finally, All Mormons should have to meet up with this guy before knocking on a door:

http://www.break.com/index/christian-gu ... rmons.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Mister Bushice]

Uhm, pop -- freedom FROM religion was already in place BEFORE the Constitution was ratified, and was a basic tenet of the First Amendment. So sorry you had to find out this way. The precedent was set before there even was a Supreme Court... but hey, don't let FACTS get in the way of a good thumping-session.

Oh, is that so?

Why was the Bible routinely used as reference in schools from the very beginning of American history, and why was prayer a common occurance in public schools all the way until the 1960's?


Try again ... or not.

Because for most of that time America was almost entirely WASPS, or SLAVES who were co-opted for Jesus. Not too hard to get a majority ruling. Having hard lives tends to bring out the god loving in people.

Plus, again, the buggy ride principle. Pretty much a guarantee anyone within a buggy rides distance was of the same faith, and going to the one church in town, be it baptist, mennonite or roman catholic. not so much any more.

Back then states WERE doing what you think they should do now, but that all changed in the 60's when the world broke open, classrooms became far more integrated, and people were enlightened to the fact that christianity wasn't the only jewel in the case.

But in the 60's and 70's the Heathens were still forced to go to Sunday school for a while. A remnant of that ol' catholic guilt, or fear of angering the god.

Roll with the times. Be happy you got nearly 200 years of religious domination here. It will not happen again.

[poptart]

Bushice, the Constitution guarantees you life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
It does NOT guarantee you (and your children) a perfectly pleasing education curriculum, perfectly pleasing school experience ..... or perfectly pleasing anything else.

So if you're very distressed by your situation you have two choices.

- leave
- wipe you and your child's nose and sack the fuck up

Through the bogus rulings that have continued to come down regarding church/state, citizens have been conditioned to crap trou' at the very hint of something .... "religious" ..... happening at a school.

It's laughable.

I'm just glad Dinsdale has no children.



Wouldn't want them, or him, to have an apoplexy if they
actually had to SEE a Bible study leaflet hanging on a
school bulletin board.

[War Wagon]

...citizens have been conditioned to crap trou' at the very hint of something .... "religious" ..... happening at a school.

Not really.

My daughter joined FCA thru a school event, and I don't think too many eyebrows were raised.

Those darn Christians always seem to get over.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

Is that your wife poptart? Funny, she doesn't look Korean.

P.S. She is fat.



Just kidding.
:)

[poptart]

2,1

[Terry in Crapchester]

Bushice, the Constitution guarantees you life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Actually, it doesn't do that.

What it guarantees is that you will not be deprived of life, liberty or property (note that the phrase "the pursuit of happiness" never occurs in the Constitution, only in the Declaration of Independence) without due process of law.

It does NOT guarantee you (and your children) a perfectly pleasing education curriculum, perfectly pleasing school experience ..... or perfectly pleasing anything else.

You're right -- it doesn't guarantee that. However, should you choose a public education for your kids, it does guarantee that said education will be free from religious indoctrination of any sort.

[Cuda]

Cuda definitely nailed it with the HYSTERICAL comments.
Might as well slap a [LTS TARD][/LTS TARD] around Mike's posts.

Hysterical? Apparently you and cuda take the same LSD, since you have the same penchant for gross exaggeration. I'm guessing you'd refer to a spilled cup of coffee as a "disaster of Biblical proportions." ...

Good point.

Maybe a [IB][/IB] code would be better?