Drake vs Butler

[TheJON]

Did anyone catch the Drake-Butler game? I'm glad to see my hometown team doing so well. I never thought I'd ever see the day where Drake would be in this position. I'm not burning couches or rioting because of their success, but it's cool to see them doing well for a change. As long as the Hawks aren't playing at the same time, I try and catch the Bulldogs on the tube or go to the game (been to a couple games this year).

But that Butler/Drake game was a great basketball game.......for 35 minutes. And then the refs took over the game. That was the worst 5 minutes of reffing I have ever seen. They decided this game. Both teams played dead even for 35 minutes and the refs decided to make up numerous phantom foul calls down the stretch including one where Drake's Josh Young was fouled on a missed 3 point shot with Drake up 2 points under a minute to play even though he clearly was never even close to being touched. And there were 3-4 other bad calls that went against Butler down the stretch. On the other side, there were a few really pathetic calls that went against Drake. It was a joke and those refs should have been fired on the spot. To ruin a great basketball game is inexcuseable. I really would have loved to have seen how this game would have played out, and find out who would have won down the stretch. But we'll never know.

Yes, I realize Drake did a better job of taking advantage of the poor officiating by making free-throws, but still, had the refs stayed the heck out of the way the outcome may have been different. If the game was crappy, I wouldn't have cared so much, but it pisses me off to see a great game between 2 very good basketball teams end up being decided by the officials. If these refs haven't been fired by now, I've completely lost all respect I ever had for the NCAA (which is very little).

[War Wagon]

^^^No shit.

I watched the last 5 minutes of that game, and the officiating never came into question. What the fuck is it with people who constantly want to cry about the refs?

Jeebus, didn't Drake win the damn game? To hear Jon tell it, they got jobbed.

[King Crimson]

What the fuck is it with people who constantly want to cry about the refs?

that's easy for you to say Tiger fan. how many FT's did Colorado shoot in Mizzou Arena Saturday night?

talk about home cookin'. refs are in MU and KU's pocket just like they were with Norm and Big 8 tournament in KC every year. :wink:

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/boxscore?gid=200802230367" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[War Wagon]

...how many FT's did Colorado shoot in Mizzou Arena Saturday night?

Ok, that was pretty, um.... unusual, to say the least.

refs are in MU and KU's pocket just like they were with Norm and Big 8 tournament in KC every year.

Speaking of which, the Big XII tourney returns to KC (where it belongs) this year at the brand spanking new Sprint center in the heart of beautiful downtown. All kinds of new stuff there now, and no more walking thru the stockyards to get to Kemper in the west bottoms.

It should be fairly epic and stuff. Can't wait. Cyclone fan usually takes over this town during tourney time, at least when they've got a decent team.

[Mook]

refs are in KU's pocket

And let's hope they there!! :D

[TheJON]

War Wagon,

I like a good basketball game. That was a fantastic ballgame between 2 very good teams for 35 minutes and then the refs took over. How can you deny this? Was there even a basket scored the last few minutes? I think Matt Howard's drive to the lane with 3 minutes to go was the last field goal in that game and it wasn't because Butler and Drake were putting up bricks down the stretch, it was because the refs were getting ridiculous with their foul calls.

Come on now, you claimed to have watched the game....... so you're saying it didn't bother you one bit that the refs called a foul on basically every possession the last few minutes? You cannot deny the fact that there were more than a few ticky tack calls down the stretch that had a HUGE impact on the outcome of this game. Josh Young did NOT get fouled on that 3 point attempt. Please don't tell me you disagree with that.... And that play pretty much decided this game. His 3 free-throws gave Drake a 5 point lead with 20 seconds to play instead of Drake having a 2 point lead with 20 seconds left and Butler having the ball. You're saying you'd rather see a game be decided by a free-throw contest as opposed to the teams actually having to make baskets to win games? I am in no way suggesting fouls down the stretch of games shouldn't be called, but come on.....there were some phantom calls down the stretch. It went both ways, but I do think Drake benefited most because the worst call of all came in the most crucial part of the game.

If you like free-throw shootouts instead of seeing the game be played out, then I can see how you'd think the reffing was good, but personally.....I like to see games played out and not decided by the refs. That's just me.

[King Crimson]

as far as the Big XII tournament, i think KC has a legit claim to it to a degree and people actually show and make it a special event--both on the basketball floor(s) and culturally around town. unlike the Dallas years when the joint was pretty empty. However, i think with the "new" Texas people OKC deserves to be in a rotation as well. OKC has two legit venues and a renewed downtown area that is pretty nifty (for OKC, and certainly more than well-equipped to host hillbillies from all over the conference in a high-falootin' New Urban America kind of way--sheeeyyyiitttt, we even got martini bars now and all kinds of other stuff that was hip in the late 90's). OKC has a fine history as an NCAA regional site as well, for decades.

and, geographically, makes the most sense.

next up: BCS bowl in Dallas. :P

[War Wagon]

Agreed that there should be a rotation. Dallas, OKC, KC, hell even Omaha would all be great venues. Not sure what the future plans include, though.

That said, there's a LOT of history with the tourney being in KC going waaay back in the old Big 8. People in this town go apeshit over that tourney. It was a real kick in the crotch when it first got moved out of here, but people understood why, what with Kemper being an aging, undersized, POS arena in a fucking horrible location.

I think losing the tourney, more than any other reason, is what got voters to approve the funds to build the new Sprint Center. Money well spent, and we got OUR tourney back, at least this year.

[King Crimson]

Agreed that there should be a rotation. Dallas, OKC, KC, hell even Omaha would all be great venues. Not sure what the future plans include, though.

That said, there's a LOT of history with the tourney being in KC going waaay back in the old Big 8. People in this town go apeshit over that tourney. It was a real kick in the crotch when it first got moved out of here, but people understood why, what with Kemper being an aging, undersized, POS arena in a fucking horrible location.

I think losing the tourney, more than any other reason, is what got voters to approve the funds to build the new Sprint Center. Money well spent, and we got OUR tourney back, at least this year.

yeah, but some of us weren't real keen on some of that history in the Big 8. playing KSU and MU or MU and KU in back to back nights in basically a home court environment for you guys or KU or KSU didn't really strike as "an even playing field".

would you want to play OSU and OU in back to back nights in OKC? Some of Saint Norm's "miracle runs" in the conference tournament....c'mon.

that's the "history" you are talking about. Tubbs was right to complain about it inna day.

as i said, if the people show up and they do i'm still behind KC but it was a factor in the old days. that and Jim Bain being Norm's fishing and hunting buddy.

[TheJON]

I saw the foul. I know where he was "held." The camera angle on TV didn't really show it because it was behind the play. But that foul is called maybe 1 out of every 100. You can't make that call in that situation. The defender (I believe it was Mike Green) barely touched him and that was partially because Young jumped into him a bit. It's a no-call. The ref that made that BS pass interference call in the 2003 Fiesta Bowl thinks that was a bad call.

I just can't see how a ref can make that call, especially in that spot. I'm not some whiny Butler fan here.....in fact I was rooting for Drake. But I hate seeing games decided by the refs, and you can't dispute that. Like I said, 1 basket made the last 4 minutes combined by these teams is a joke. It's not like Butler and Drake are overly physical teams. The refs decided with 5 minutes to go they were going to decide the outcome of a great basketball game and that is an embarrassment to college basketball.

Let me take that last statement back. It's hard for an officiating crew to embarrass D-1 college basketball. It's already a cesspool anyways.

[TheJON]

I saw the replay again after my original post. I saw something I didn't see before. He kinda "grabs" his hand after Young jumps into him. The defender did everything in his power to avoid contact but Young jumped into him. And the contact was very minor and did not impact the shot. In that situation, considering the minor contact had no bearing on whether or not the shot was going to go down, it's a terrible call. And we're forgetting also that there were 4-5 other tic-tac calls down the stretch both ways. I'm not trying to make this out to sound like Butler was the only team getting jobbed, it went both ways. There were a few cheap fouls that went against Drake. But I point out the Young play because that was the most crucial call of all considering the time and score.

I never said fouls shouldn't be called down the stretch, I just think that games are ruined when refs decide to call every little cheap foul in the last few minutes. It ruins the game. Obvious fouls, of course you call. Or any foul that impedes a players ability to score......yeah, gotta call those. But a guy jumps into a defender on a desperation 3 with 20 seconds to go in a 2 point game should not be called......especially if the contact that was made was very minimal. Adam Haluska was very good at getting BS foul calls on his 3-pt attempts. He perfected that. But Josh Young made a piss poor effort to get the call and they still called it. That attempt was no where's near as good as Adam's flops.

Honestly, how on earth can anyone watch that play knowing the situation and say "good call"? That's a terrible call. I can't believe people are on here saying that's the right call. If you think that's a foul, then teams might as well just have a free-throw shootout as opposed to playing a normal game because if you think that should be called, you think a foul should be called on every single possession of every single game.

Is a free-throw shoot-out really what you're looking for? If so, I can send the NCAA a letter and ask them to change their style of play. Myles Brand is dumb enough to listen.

[TheJON]

Speaking of Drake....

What a disappointing performance last night. Missouri State is horrible (well, the entire MVC is other than Drake), and to not show up and play defense is inexcuseable for a team wanting people to show them respect. You can't get respect when you lose to teams like that. So much for a #4 or #5 seed.

[orcinus]

Bwa ...

Missouri State is a team of underachievers who've become mainstays on the injury report, and they've played badly in a few games this season ... but they're by no means a horrible team. The athletes are there (and have been for the past four years), but for some reason Coach Hinson has never been able to X&O his way through January and February when games really start to matter.

It took senior night in the final game at Hammons Student Center (moving into JQH Arena next season) for Hinson to finally get through to this team and pull off a big victory, which tells you why he's got a big fork sticking out of his back.

Back to the point, though. You catch any league team at home on senior night and, unless they're an absolute doormat, you're bound to be in for the fight of your life. Drake didn't fail to show up ... they got mowed in the first half by an inspired team that was firing on all cylinders up and down the court, and could have easily packed it in and gotten blown out.

Down the stretch in the second half, Drake made a big run to get back in the game with full court pressure and huge threes, but the Bears held them off in the final two minutes with several huge baskets of their own.

I have nothing but a casual interst in this team and continue to laugh at Barry's folly, but you have to give credit where it's due.

Drake didn't fail to show up last night.

They simply got beat.

[TheJON]

A sound defensive game? They gave up 83 points?

By the way, I don't mean to be a prick but someone really has got to tell Klayton Korver he is a horrible shooter and he needs to stop taking 10 3's a game. Bucky Cox and Josh Young should be taking the majority of the 3's Drake attempts.....not Korver. The only reason people think he's a good shooter is because he's Kyle's brother. He's never been a good shooter. He reminds me of Jeff Horner when Horner was a freshman. He shot like 28% that year but kept shooting. But unlike Korver, Horner actually became a good shooter after that year. Korver has sucked his entire career. I'm really surprised Keno doesn't put a leash on him.

Klayton, you're a good kid, your brother is a heck of a shooter. But seriously, dude, you can't shoot. So please stop!