Cincy Chili

Nacho · Post by **Nacho** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:57 pm

Was wondering if anyone had a good recipe for this.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 7:34 pm

Sorry the spreadsheet is busted, but isn't Naco from Texas?

Did a Texan really just come on here asking for advice on chili-making from Ohio?

Did that really just happen?

I'll save anymore commentary, and let the Texas-folk police themselves.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to post a thread asking advice from North Dakotans on how to smoke salmon.

Nacho · Post by **Nacho** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 8:18 pm

Cincy Chili is a different breed of Chili, and I am looking to try it out after a report from a co-worker who was talking about it from a recent trip he took.

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:40 pm

Nacho,

As a Texan, let me tell you I was interested in Cincy Chili at one time too. I heard all kinds of good things from these midwesterners about Skyline Chili and how it is the best in the world. So, I was in Cincy and decided to give it a try.

3 words. Lose your interest. The shit here is so bland.

If testimonial from a Texan does not sway you to stay away from it, here's a recipe I got off my trusty Million+ recipe online database I use a lot for ideas.

CINCINNATI STYLE CHILI

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 qt. water
2 lb. ground beef
2 chopped onions
1 tsp. cinnamon
1 1/2 tsp. salt
2 tsp. Worcestershire sauce
1/2 oz. unsweetened chocolate
4 cloves garlic
16 oz. tomato sauce
1 can kidney beans
3 Tbsp. (at least) chili
powder (I use about 6 Tbsp.
chili powder, but we like
it spicy)
2 Tbsp. vinegar
1 tsp. cumin
1 bay leaf
1/2 tsp. crushed red pepper
5 whole allspice

Boil the water and ground beef for 30 minutes. Meat
will separate into small pieces. Add all of the other
ingredients and simmer for at least 1 hour, uncovered. Serve
hot, with shredded cheese and chopped onions on the top.
Cincinnati style also may be served with spaghetti noodles
under the chili.
Cincinnati Style Chili: Cincinnati is famous for its
chili and this recipe came from one of the best chili parlors
in Cincy-Skyline Chili.

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:43 pm

By the way, the chili I make, I use flank steak. I smoke it for about 1 hour on really low heat. Mostly I just want to get the smoke flavor in it. Then I cube it up about the size of a sugar cube. I do not have my whole recipe handy, but I will try to get it for you.

The other thing they do here in the midwest that I never heard of before when making chili..*laugh*they put noodles in it*laugh*.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 4:17 pm

I was in Cincy once a number of years ago. Ordered some of this "famous" Cincy chili.

They served it on fuggen spaghetti fercryinoutloud.

Nacho · Post by **Nacho** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 6:51 pm

Thanks

I'll give it a shot just to see what the big deal is.

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:44 pm

Nacho wrote:I'll give it a shot just to see what the big deal is.

Save some time and go take a bite of your own feces.

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:17 pm

IndyFrisco wrote:Save some time and go take a bite of your own feces.

Lemme guess, you would wash that down with some Bud Lite?

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:40 pm

Chocolate and cinnamon in chili?

I may just be some salmon-smoking urban redneck from Oregon, but that made me puke in my mouth a little bit.

I mean, we at least serve the shit out of the can on hot dogs in these parts.

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:26 pm

BSmack wrote:
IndyFrisco wrote:Save some time and go take a bite of your own feces.

Lemme guess, you would wash that down with some Bud Lite?

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:32 pm

Dinsdale wrote:Chocolate and cinnamon in chili?

I may just be some salmon-smoking urban redneck from Oregon, but that made me puke in my mouth a little bit.

I mean, we at least serve the shit out of the can on hot dogs in these parts.

Chocolate is a common ingredient in chili. I have used it before. It basically "disguises" the heat. I like to make my chili very spicy. Then I taste it and know how much chocolate to add based upon the audience for the chili. If it is just for me, I don't add any chocolate. If it is for a work even or a party, I will add a whole 2 oz. bar of Ghirardelli semi-sweet. You can still taste the heat, but it is after an initial sweetness.

Now cinnamon...never heard of that before. Maybe they just add that tio make you go "Hmm...what is that?"

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:31 pm

IndyFrisco wrote:
BSmack wrote:
IndyFrisco wrote:Save some time and go take a bite of your own feces.
Lemme guess, you would wash that down with some Bud Lite?

Well, I figured if you're talking about eating shit, you might as well wash it down with piss. Right?

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:57 pm

BSmack wrote:Well, I figured if you're talking about eating shit, you might as well wash it down with piss. Right?

Gotcha. I don't drink beer that much any more, but when I do, it definitely is not bud light.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 7:55 pm

I'll be making a batch of chili tonight for a potluck tomorrow.

I'll keep track of the ingredients as they go in and post the results later.

Truman · Post by **Truman** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 2:25 am

Funny...

As a change-of-pace to my nearly world-famous bowl of red (I took second in the Company chili cook-off ), I googled the recipe for authentic Cincinnati Skyline chili.

And then I stumbled upon this thread...

Boiled ground beef?!

Not one to easily dismiss a Texan's opinion - "3 words. Lose your interest. The shit here is so bland. - I took Indy's advice and added his mesquite-smoked flank steak to my usual brew.

1 word from the western-midwest: Wow!

Big ups, Indy! That was some seriously good eats. And with smoked flank as my Secret Weapon, I'm already eyeballing all the fine gear I'm gonna buy down at the World Market with my First Place $50 gift certificate after this year's cook-off!

ppanther · Post by **ppanther** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 8:42 pm

I've been cooking up food that makes large batches recently, storing some away in the freezer for eating after I have my baby. One of the cookbooks I like for this type of cooking is "Soups and Stews", which is one of the Best Recipe line from Cook's Illustrated. I was looking through that book and saw that it had a recipe for Cincinnati Chili. After having read this thread, I became somewhat intrigued.

As is the style of Cook's Illustrated, there is a 2-page commentary on the hows and whys of their 'best' recipe. It was a fairly insightful read.

Now, given that I am not as precious about what I eat as some of you ninnies apparently are, and given that I am able to call something chili that doesn't necessarily fit a mold in which I am hopelessly stuck, I decided to try it out today.

My review:

No, it doesn't taste like your typical Texas-style chile con carne. Luckily, I wasn't expecting that it would.

The recipe is LOADED with various spices and flavoring agents, including chili powder, cayenne, oregano, cinnamon, allspice, cocoa, cider vinegar, and brown sugar -- honestly how any of you could see that list and think "bland" is beyond me. The chili cooked down to a very rich, thick 'sauce'. I had it over spaghetti, as recommended in the book, and topped with kidney beans and sharp cheddar cheese.

Since I am not all hung up on the NAME of the dish or a narrow view of what that NAME entails, I am free to admit that this was absolutely delicious. Since I also know that ingredients like cocoa/chocolate and warm spices (such as cinnamon) have been used in savory cooking longer than we've been a country, I have no need to pretend to think it's a bad idea. It is in fact a FANTASTIC idea. And no, cocoa is not added to 'tone down heat' -- it's a flavor element all its own. Oaxaca and Puebla out front should have told you. It's weird that people promoting Texan food, which is really just an American offshoot of Mexican cooking, would be so against ingredients that Mexicans have been using for centuries.

Overall: This "Cincinnati Chili" is FREAKING DELICIOUS, and I guarantee any of you who tasted it would think the same. You just might be afraid to admit it. Because some of you are ridiculous ninnies.

Nacho, if you want a great recipe for Cincinnati Chili, go to your local bookstore and buy the book... or just write down the recipe while you're there. You won't be sorry.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 9:00 pm

I respect your opinion, pp, but putting it on spaghetti still seems somewhat, uh, sacreligious(?) Sort of like making a nice pesto and adding it to your Kraft mac and cheese - or something. Maybe if they didn't call it chili it would be OK. Or maybe the rest of us should stick to calling what *WE* think of chile con carne by its real name (chile con carne). Then the term chili can be just about anything anybody wants it to be.

Can you send me a sample?

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 9:07 pm

BTW, the midwesterners also have something that they call "chili sauce", a condiment that's made of tomatoes, onions, brown sugar, cinnamon, cloves, vinegar and (I think) not necessarily any peppers of any kind at all - maybe some green bell peppers. When I worked in a German restaurant about half a century ago, the owner's sister-in-law (the family was from Joplin, MO) brought some out from back home. It was OK. Pretty sweet, though, and tasted like nothing that I ever associated with the word chili, or chile or whatever.

ppanther · Post by **ppanther** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 9:11 pm

Mikey wrote:I respect your opinion, pp, but putting it on spaghetti still seems somewhat, uh, sacreligious(?) Sort of like making a nice pesto and adding it to your Kraft mac and cheese - or something. Maybe if they didn't call it chili it would be OK. Or maybe the rest of us should stick to calling what *WE* think of chile con carne by its real name (chile con carne). Then the term chili can be just about anything anybody wants it to be.

Can you send me a sample?

Oh come on, spaghetti is just pasta... putting Cincinnati Chili over it is no more weird than topping it with Bolognese. That is, unless you're unable to get past those rigid molds. Pesto in mac and cheese?

...well, what if it was a really good, homemade mac and cheese with fontina, asiago, and smoked mozzarella?? That wouldn't be bad at all!

I'd ship you a sample, but being 39.5 weeks pregnant has rendered me too irritable to deal with the post office.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 9:20 pm

ppanther wrote:...well, what if it was a really good, homemade mac and cheese with fontina, asiago, and smoked mozzarella?? That wouldn't be bad at all!

Now you're just making me hungry...

:paul:

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 11:40 pm

Cheese -- there's another thing that's much more easily done in an electric smoker.

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Sat Mar 01, 2008 2:42 am

Anyone can write a fucking book and say "this is my take on Cincy Chili" and make it taste good. Putting it on noodles is still laughable at best.

pp, you're a nice read and seemingly good cook. Are you a writer as well? Why tell the dude to buy the book for a recipe? Just post it if you think it is the cat's pajamas and all.

In any case, I have had what is considered "Cincy Chili at its best" and wanted to yak it up soon thereafter for the sacrilige of calling that chili. Some "fu-fu" fuck who writes a book changing the basic Cincy Chili isn't going to change my mind.

still...noodles. laughlaughlaugh

Goober McTuber · Post by **Goober McTuber** » Sat Mar 01, 2008 6:05 am

There used to be chain around these parts called George Webb's. I have no idea how far and wide they were franchised, or if they were mostly regional. They were a nice bar-time stop for a hot meal. Assuming you were sufficiently loaded so as not to give a shit about quality. They served a Cincy-style chili. It was horrible, not for the concept, but for the execution.

My mother used to make a dish with leftover chili that she called Johnny Marzetti. Basically some fairly thick chili mixed with medium wide flat noodles. For an extra treat she'd melt some Velveeta over the top. I still make that stuff for myself, though the chili's probably a bit spicier than hers, and I'll substitute a good cheddar for the Velveeta. (Though nothing melts like Velveeta. Other than Sammy Gangbang.)

Indy, you need to listen preggerspanther. Get over your hangups of what chili should be. Just call it something else. Like Johnny Marzetti. Or Samurai Gangbang. Come on, Indy, how about a nice warm bowl of Samurai Gangbang?

BTW, I assumed that poopyonthewaypanther did not post the recipe out of respect for the intellectual property involved.

ppanther · Post by **ppanther** » Sat Mar 01, 2008 2:51 pm

Goober's right... it's actually not legal to post content from books. I'm sure I've done it before, but I dunno, maybe I've grown some ethics or something. Besides, "Soups and Stews" is a really worthwhile book to have, so buying it for this recipe would hardly be a waste.

Indy, you are clearly not familiar with how Cook's Illustrated works. They are hardly 'fu-fu'. Their 'best recipe' is, in my experience, always very true to the original. It's just the best original, based on testing many batches among people who actually know what [insert recipe here] should be. The 2-page commentary that precedes pretty much every single recipe they print tends to explain the entire process. If you think about it rationally -- which may be difficult given your extreme emotional attachment to the word 'chili' -- it is very likely that tasty Cincinnati Chili exists. If it didn't, there'd be no discussion about it, because no one would ever have heard of it. There is no reason to call eating it over spaghetti 'laughable' -- it's quite delicious that way.

You're too young to be so incapable of thinking outside the lines. I find it endlessly entertaining that people are able to convince themselves that the quality of their taste buds or ability to create a tasty pot of stew are in any way related to their place of origin. Clearly you think Texans own the right to the term 'chili' and your rigidity won't allow you to get past that delusion... but let me ask you a question:

How can you, a Texan, claim ownership of a dish that didn't even originate in the United States? You don't even know why you use some of the ingredients you use (see: chocolate), yet you claim ownership of the dish?? I'm sorry Indy, I know you mean well and I'll bet you're a good cook, but seriously... that is truly laughable. Get over yourself.

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Sat Mar 01, 2008 8:22 pm

It is my understanding that a recipe cannot be considered intellectual property. Hence, the "long kept secret" that is the KFC Original Recipe. You can't create a burger called the ig Mac and sell it, but you can completely copy the recipe and call it whatever you like.

I'm not hung up on a name as I am hung up on ingredients, or lack thereof. Here, let me give you a great asparagus recipe:

Snow Peas
Garlic
Salt & Pepper
EVOO
Parm Reg

Drizzle EVOO over your snow peas. Seson to taste. Toss in some finely chopped garlic. Roast in oven for 10 minutes and shave some parm reg over the top once you pull it from the oven.

There ya go! The BEST asparagus there is!

ppanther · Post by **ppanther** » Sat Mar 01, 2008 8:38 pm

When a recipe or formula is accompanied by explanation or directions, the text directions may be copyrightable, but the recipe or formula itself remains uncopyrightable.

Glad to see you're up on copyright laws, Indy.

By the way, your post was the worst attempt at a reach I think I've ever seen. I'd almost guess you're angry, but surely you're not that big a ninny... right? Saying there can be only one definition for chili is about as simple-minded as saying there can only be one definition for curry. It's a stew, nothing more, nothing less, and it can take many forms.

I notice you completely failed to answer my question about how you could claim ownership of a dish your home state didn't even invent (but in fact likely bastardized). How does it make you feel that even in Mexico, where the dish you can't see past was invented, there are several different types of stewed meats referred to as chili (chile)?

Goober McTuber · Post by **Goober McTuber** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 1:56 am

ppanther wrote:Goober's right.

Sig material right there.

All seriousness aside, ppanther, in case you're not back in here before the the blessed event, may your first child be a manly child.

Unless, of course, it's a girl.

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:40 pm

Link to where I said Texas owns the term "chili" and what it is comprised of? And please don't point to me saying that just because I think "Classic Cincy Chili" is bland and horrid means I speak for all of Texas. Hell, I live in Indiana now. My neighbor makes a damn fine chili base...then he fucks it up by throwing noodles in it. I asked him about it, and he just said that he has always heard that if noodles were put in, then it is called chili soup. Just a regional thing.

For the last time...MY take on Classic Cincy Chili is that it is bland. It has a total lack of flavor. Reread this recipe I posted further up:

CINCINNATI STYLE CHILI

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 qt. water
2 lb. ground beef
2 chopped onions
1 tsp. cinnamon
1 1/2 tsp. salt
2 tsp. Worcestershire sauce
1/2 oz. unsweetened chocolate
4 cloves garlic
16 oz. tomato sauce
1 can kidney beans
3 Tbsp. (at least) chili
powder (I use about 6 Tbsp.
chili powder, but we like
it spicy)
2 Tbsp. vinegar
1 tsp. cumin
1 bay leaf
1/2 tsp. crushed red pepper
5 whole allspice

Boil the water and ground beef for 30 minutes. Meat
will separate into small pieces. Add all of the other
ingredients and simmer for at least 1 hour, uncovered. Serve
hot, with shredded cheese and chopped onions on the top.
Cincinnati style also may be served with spaghetti noodles
under the chili.
Cincinnati Style Chili: Cincinnati is famous for its
chili and this recipe came from one of the best chili parlors
in Cincy-Skyline Chili.

Yes...boiled beef as was already pointed out. And the bold part stating it is from one of the best chili parlors in Cincy, Skyline.

I have a right to my opinion just as much as you. I spoke to Nacho "as a Texan" because I am familiar with how different regions of the country view it being from the Southwest and living in the Midwest now. I had never heard of noodles in chili until about 8 years ago when I had my Mother-In-Law's chili for the first time. It, too, was watery, bland and loaded with noodles. Sounds like she can make a damn fine living in Cincy...

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 2:11 pm

And another take...

http://www.deanesmay.com/posts/1094454361.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

While I'm not as "gung-ho" as the author of the article about experimenting with different chili ingredients, we tend to agree on the no beans and no noodles thing. I like baked beans, just not in my chili.

A comment from someone in that forum basically echoes my opinion. I said above the locals here call it chili soup. About the same thing as calling it chili stew.

I come from a long line of Texas cowboys. My dad took first place in more than one San Antonio Texas Chili cook-off. He told me: "You don't put beans in chili. You put beans in stew."

When I see people eating bean stew with chili seasonings, I take the time to let them know that what they are eating is stew, not chili. I think education is a good thing and I hate to be around ignorant people, so I don't mind going out of my way to educate them about the difference between chili and stew. There's nothing wrong with stew. My wife makes great stew. But she doesn't make chili. I make the chili.

Apparently people think that just because it has chili powder in it, it's chili.

Well, I put hamburger in sloppy joes, but I don't try to make people believe they're eating hamburgers.

Goober McTuber · Post by **Goober McTuber** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 2:47 pm

I put beans in my chili. Not baked beans. I generally use a can of light red kidney beans, a can of dark red kidney beans and a can of cannellini beans (white kidney beans). Makes a very attractive chili.

That’s right. I call it chili. Not chili soup. Not chili stew. Chili. You pompous twit.

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 2:51 pm

TOE-MAY-TOE.
TOE-MAH-TOE.

To each their own.

Goober McTuber · Post by **Goober McTuber** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 3:00 pm

Nobody knows more about chili than I do.

ppanther · Post by **ppanther** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 3:42 pm

“First, catch yourself a lean Spaniard.”

I laughed out loud right there. Entertaining read, Goobs! (and thanks for the well-wishes, and in fact the soon to be spawn-of-ppanther is indeed of the boy variety... but my husband isn't really going for the name Goober, sorry!)

Indy, why would you repost a recipe you already posted in this thread? That doesn't make any sense. I already read it. I already know it's a different recipe than the one I made. I can't imagine why anyone would boil meat for 30 MINUTES. The recipe I used called for boiling for 30 seconds, which did a more than sufficient job of breaking up the meat and even mostly browning the surface. I don't have the book open in front of me, but it did explain why they chose to keep the 'traditional' method of boiling the meat. I found the explanation acceptable.

Now just so you know, I did not set out specifically to call you wrong. I did think you (and some others) were being far too precious about the topic. That combined with the fact that the recipe actually looked pretty tasty (see the partial list of ingredients I already posted -- even you would have to admit they have potential) inspired me to try it out. Please note that I did not post before I tasted the end result. There is no denying the end result -- it was a damn fine lunch, and will be a damn fine lunch several more times before it's gone. Even my husband liked it, though his comment was "It's different, but it's good!" He really picked up on the warm spices. He wasn't particularly offended by the fact that there was pasta on the plate, but then again he's not from Texas.

So Indy, even though you've tried Cincinnati Chili once or twice and found it unpleasant, and even though you have a complete inability to imagine food served in any way contrary to your expectations (see: chili over pasta), and even though you don't like the fact that I pointed out that cocoa has a more prominent role in Mexican stews than being a simple heat moderator, you would like the chili I made on Friday. If you remain unwilling to call it "chili", well that's your issue to get over. I don't have any reason to call it anything other than what the recipe calls it. I'm blissfully free of such hang-ups.

For Bsmack: If I was matching beer with the Cincinnati Chili I made, I'd go with a red ale.

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:42 pm

ppanther wrote:For Bsmack: If I was matching beer with the Cincinnati Chili I made, I'd go with a red ale.

And don't for get the frosty glass full of ice cubes for the beer.

I think you finally got it right. This time, you said "Chili over pasta." I'm on board with that.

ppanther · Post by **ppanther** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:50 pm

IndyFrisco wrote:
ppanther wrote:For Bsmack: If I was matching beer with the Cincinnati Chili I made, I'd go with a red ale.
And don't for get the frosty glass full of ice cubes for the beer.

I don't get it. Are you still reaching, Indy?

I can't figure out exactly why this topic bothers you so much.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 7:13 pm

ppanther wrote:I'd go with a red ale.

Yummy.

Best wishes on the impending expulsion-btw.

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 7:45 pm

mvscal wrote:It even leads them to babble such blatant idiocies as claiming that cowboys didn't have beans as a means of bolstering their pitiful claims of what constitutes (in their minds) "real" chili.

I don't hold that belief. I've seen plenty of people IN TEXAS put beans in their chili. I just prefer to not have them in mine so I do not use them. But you are right...some people do take it to the extreme like the guy I linked to. However, I was linking more towards the quote I quoted and not the main article.

pp, the same reason you laugh at me using Sam's Choice cocoa instead of "Dutch Processed" is where I am coming from. I can't figure out why the topic of me not agreeing that Cincy Chili or noodles in chili is good bothers you so much? Sure, it's an IKYABWAI comeback, but that's pretty much all it deserves. I'm not here to try to change your mind so why are you doing that with me? I've already said "to each their own" but your incessant need to have everyone agree with you is getitng the better of you. Nor do I think poop in coffee is good but...to each their own.

Dins, thanks for the reset. And back to the Blondie resets...enjoy your next bottle of "red."

trev · Post by **trev** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:10 pm

We called it "chili spaghetti" growing up in Ohio. ppanthers husband nailed it. It's different but really good. Can't we just agree that there are all types of chili in the world and it would be boring if all chili were the same?

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:21 pm

mvscal wrote:
IndyFrisco wrote: However, I was linking more towards the quote I quoted and not the main article.
You mean this bit?

When I see people eating bean stew with chili seasonings, I take the time to let them know that what they are eating is stew, not chili. I think education is a good thing and I hate to be around ignorant people...
I'd love to meet this fuckhead someday. I be happy to take the time to let him know that what I'm eating is about to get kicked up his cunt. He is right about education, though.

So

1. Cowboys ate beans...lots of them. At least once a day, usually twice.
2. There is no such thing as "real" or "authentic" chili. There are too many different variants and influences for any one to lay claim to being "real." They're all real.

No, the bit I mentioned and the bit I bolded. And once again, I've said you can call it whatever you like. Just because you call it chili does not mean I have to call it chili. Nor do we have to agree on it. In fact, I think pp's earlier suggestion that cincy chili on spaghetti is no different than bolognese was spot on. Cincy chili is "closer" to tasting like a bolognese to me than it is to what I would call chili.