ask poptart a question

[poptart]

Sometimes multiple questions/issues get tossed out within a given thread and it's usually not really possible to address them all without getting hopelessly sidetracked.

So, ask me a question regarding God, Jesus Christ, the Bible, theology, the Gospel, ... or anything related.

I'll give an answer and then you can swear, stomp your feet and call me a dumbfuck.
It'll be a good time.

Naaah, I'll give you my answer -- speaking just for myself
You can then follow my answer up with another question(s) or comment(s) if you like.


Or, just tell me to fuck off right now and that'll be cool too.

[Felix]

okay I've got a bunch of questions:

First, how does one seperate the biblical "metaphors" from actual events/words of God and who decides what is to be taken as the absolute word of God?

second, do you think God's ordering the execution of 3,000 people for worshiping a golden idol was a little excessive?

go ahead with those two and I'll formulate some others

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

Tart, what's gonna happen to the Jews when the Messiah returns?

[Felix]

how do you reconcile God putting numerous innocents to death (ala the total annihilation of Soddom and Gomorrah) for acts they had nothing to do with
(this punishing innocents for the crimes of their parents is apparently a predominant theme throughout the Bible)

In Exodus 12:12, God says "For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the LORD.

why was it necessary for God to kill the first born of all the animals?

I'll think of others

btw, answering these questions by quoting the Bible is not allowed
I want your personal thoughts

[poptart]

btw, answering these questions by quoting the Bible is not allowed
I want your personal thoughts

haha
I'll see what I can do along those lines, Felix.
Can't promise anything.


One at a time ...

First, how does one seperate the biblical "metaphors" from actual events/words of God and who decides what is to be taken as the absolute word of God?

The very short answer is that you yourself may read the book and 'take' it however you choose to.
The Bible is available to anyone, and anyone may do that.

My personal view is that it is all God's perfect Word, as He intended for us to see it.

Since that was relatively short, I'll go to your 2nd question, but you can follow that reply up if you want to.

second, do you think God's ordering the execution of 3,000 people for worshiping a golden idol was a little excessive?

On the surface, and without putting the incident (or the Bible) in proper context, I could think that, yes.
I'm going to make some important points about this particular incident, and provide important context, but it's worth saying that regarding any judgements God makes, He is God and I am not.

Please know that I am going to give a long set-up here, but it was very important, not only for this question of yours, but for all future questions.

In understanding the Bible is is fundamentally important to look at it from the perspective of God's Covenant.
Going to the beginning, man broke this Covenant (we left God's Word) and fell into bondage to satan.
Man was created to be WITH God, yet we became separated, and being as the correct object of our worship was separated from us (God), we inevitably gravitate to idol worship.
This is our nature.
But of course worshipping 'idols' is worshipping satan.
Worshipping satan is highly harmful to us.
So God promised the Christ for us (Genesis 3:15), who would free us from the bondage of satan.
But in the meantime, God paved the way for the coming Christ.
The Old Testament is all about this paving of the way.
His dealings with Israel were all for the purpose of paving the way for the Savior of the World.
Along the way, God continued to make new Covenants with man, for the purpose of reaching the FINAL covenant, which is in Jesus Christ.


In the Golden Calf incident in question, the timing of it is important.
God had JUST brought Israel ... very miraculously, and undeniably ... out of bondage and harsh oppression in Egypt -- which they had gone into, btw, because Abraham lost hold of the Covenant.
When in Egypt, they had been deeply into idol worship.
They knew that God had brought them out, and right after doing so, God re-established his Covenant with them and gave them the 10 commandments -- #1 and #2 vitally important.
- I AM GOD
- HAVE NO IDOLS

Moses (the leader) went away (for 40 days) from the people to get instruction from God and the people started to piss down their leg, thinking somehow that Moses was fucked and that they were going to be fucked.
So they decided to disbelieve God.
They blatantly built idols and worshipped them.
God was hot pissed and said He was going to kill 'em all, except for Moses, and just start over with him.
Moses pleaded for Israel and God relented.
Some of Israel chose to then follow Moses' leadership, when he returned from God, and many others chose to continue idol worship.
God had all of the idol worshippers killed.

I understand it and it don't view it as excessive.

[poptart]

Marty, all of God's dealings with the people of Isreal were for the purpose of making the way for the Savior of the world to be manifest.

Being a Jew is of no particular significance.

Mvscal basically called it.

Christ has come and fulfilled all.
Take Him and you are safe.
Take him not and you remain in bondage to satan -- and you ultimately go where he goes.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

Marty, all of God's dealings with the people of Isreal were for the purpose of making the way for the Savior of the world to be manifest.

Being a Jew is of no particular significance.

Mvscal basically called it.

Christ has come and fulfilled all.
Take Him and you are safe.
Take him not and you remain in bondage to satan -- and you ultimately go where he goes.

But to return, Jesus needs to surf back to Earth on a tidal wave of Jew blood, right?

Why won't you people ever admit that?

[Felix]

The very short answer is that you yourself may read the book and 'take' it however you choose to.

so if I want to interpret it any way I want that's the way it should be....I always wondered how the David Koresh's of the world got their start, now I think I know

God was hot pissed and said He was going to kill 'em all
God had all of the idol worshippers killed.
I understand it and it don't view it as excessive.

so you don't think killing three thousand people because He was pissed is excessive? Seems that God engaged in quite a bit of revenge/vengence killing

how about the 500,000 Israelites he and Abijah teamed up to slay-would you consider that excessive

I'd like to see what you consider to be "excessive"

"he didn't sacrifice that animal right, I think I'll kill him for it"

(and if you think that's an exaggeration let me know and I'll cite the verse for you)

Take him not and you remain in bondage to satan -- and you ultimately go where he goes.

no, it's God's choice to punish those who won't worship Him-spin it anyway you want be God is well God, and He can do anything...the condemnation of all those souls that don't worship Him is entirely His choice

okay, another question

why does God choose to torture some very good people to excess before he finally does them in-think brain cancer and Alzheimer's slow painful deaths for two of the kindest people you could ever meet

He's got quite a sense of humor

[poptart]

so you don't think killing three thousand people because He was pissed is excessive?

Being pissed was only part of the equation.
You read the context and what the situation was.

Beyond the pissed part, God was going to wipe 'em ALL out and save just Moses -- and work toward the coming Christ from the starting point of Moses.
But he ended up letting some choose to again follow him.

I'll note again that God's dealings with Israel were for the purporse of paving the way for the coming Messiah.
Pretty tough to pave the way for the Messiah through an ENTIRE group of people who are worshipping satan.

They knew God saved their bacon in Egypt, they knew that He is God, they KNEW who to believe.
They blatantly served idols (satan) ... again, instead of believing in the God who they KNEW.

That's not gonna go well, then or now, btw.


You can follow this up again, of course.
I see your other question(s) but hesitate to go to them because the thread gets sidetracked and cluttered.

But I will be happy to give my responses to them.

[Felix]

Being pissed was only part of the equation.
You read the context and what the situation was.

sure I read it and I've re-read countless times

anyway you look at it, God murdered 3,000 for nothing more than worshiping an idol-there's no context that can justify murdering 3,000 people for what essentially is a victimless crime

it wasn't necessary to kill them, He could have just transported them someplace else (after all, He's God so He can do anything)...but apparently God felt He needed to make an example of them so He just murdered them

did you know that kill and slay appear almost three times as much in the Bible as does the word love

what do you make of that

but hesitate to go to them because the thread gets sidetracked and cluttered.

uh tart, the thread is in the theology forum and the title is ask you a question...I hardly think you responding to my questions would clutter up a thread that you asked for questions in

crazy times we live in

[poptart]

I'll go to a couple of your other questions, Felix.

why does God choose to torture some very good people to excess before he finally does them in-think brain cancer and Alzheimer's slow painful deaths for two of the kindest people you could ever meet

Fundamentally, it's most important to know that Adam and Eve were created with no such illness or problems.
They were with God as intended and only after man came into bondage under satan did mental and physical oppression occur.
If you take a fish out of water and lay him on the ground he'll flop like crazy and then die.
Because fish were created to be in the water.
Man was created to be with God.

I could cite a whole lot of Bible verses and portions of the Bible, but you asked for that not to happen, so I'll just note one such important verse.

Acts 10:38: How God annointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him.

I won't pretend to be able bexplain the why and why nots of illness on a case-by-case basis.
But I'll say this, disease comes from a few sources.

- physiological - old age, overexertion
- human mistakes - alcoholism, cigs, idi0cy, etc ...
- God's will
- disease coming from original sin
- disease caused by demons

For a person to have healing he must first heal the disease of his heart, and that is by taking the promised Christ.
At that point a person becomes God's child and God takes responsibility.
Healing or no healing is within God's sovereign will.

Feel free to reply, of course.




One more of your questions ...

did you know that kill and slay appear almost three times as much in the Bible as does the word love

what do you make of that

I didn't know it was three times as much.

What I make of it is that it's pretty consistent with the world we are in.

The Bible points us to the way to come out of slavery, hardship, disaster ... and whatsuch.

That is how I see the Book, basically.

[Felix]

Fundamentally, it's most important to know that Adam and Eve were created with no such illness or problems.

really?

so if they were born with no illness or problems, why exactly do you think God decided to supply humans with an immune system for fighting off diseases that Adam and Eve brought upon all of mankind (for yet another victimless crime of eating a piece of fruit), and when do you suppose he gave it to them

God seems to have a pretty morbid sense of humor

[Goober McTuber]

poptart,

Why does God allow thousands of innocents to die in China and Myanmar, yet Al Davis still lives? Does this prove that God a wicked sense of humor?

[SunCoastSooner]

poptart,

Why does God allow thousands of innocents to die in China and Myanmar, yet Al Davis still lives? Does this prove that God a wicked sense of humor?

Have you not read the Old Testament?

[Goober McTuber]

poptart,

Why does God allow thousands of innocents to die in China and Myanmar, yet Al Davis still lives? Does this prove that God a wicked sense of humor?

Have you not read the Old Testament?

Yes, I have. I found no mention of Al Davis.

[poptart]

Goober, Al's mom lived to be 138 or some shit.
Get used to seeing him toolin' around with his little walker dealie.
30 or 40 yrs to go.

so if they were born with no illness or problems, why exactly do you think God decided to supply humans with an immune system for fighting off diseases that Adam and Eve brought upon all of mankind (for yet another victimless crime of eating a piece of fruit), and when do you suppose he gave it to them

My answer is speculation.

The Bible doesn't say much about what Adam and Eve had physically.
They may have been born with immune systems because God knew the fall was coming.
Or the immune system may have come later.

I dunno.

[Goober McTuber]

BTW, I always thought that the "tree of knowledge" was probably either marijuana or peyote.

[poptart]

Yeah, you and Irie both.

Least you don't think Cain killed Abel for lookin' at his crank.

[SunCoastSooner]

BTW, I always thought that the "tree of knowledge" was probably either marijuana or peyote.

My money is on hashish!

[Felix]

They may have been born with immune systems because God knew the fall was coming.

the possibilities here are endless

and I'm still waiting on your response to my observation that God murdered 3,000 people for nothing more than worshipping some golden idol

the only "victim" of that "capital crime" was God

apparently He's mellowed with age, because there hasn't been that kind of cleansing in a long, long, long time

[poptart]

I offered to answer questions, I didn't offer that you'd necessarily like or agree with my answers.

I answered the question, Felix.

You can have the observation that 'God killed 3,000 folks for nothing more than worshipping some golden idol' if that's how you see it.

[JayDuck]

How will you feel if, after you die, you find out that Christianity was not the correct religion and find yourself burning in some other religion's version of Hell for worshipping a false God?

[poptart]

Deeply anguished and highly regretful that I was so ignorant.

[Q, West Coast Style]

Does Rev Hagee get his rap from the same Bible from which you get yours?

[poptart]

yes

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

'Tart, is dog "the other white meat"?

A guy I heard of has a friend who wants to know. Possibly.

[poptart]

Definitely not white.
When cooked, brownish-red, much like beef.

Soft, a bit 'stringy' ... delicious, to some.

Not me, didn't care for it.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

'Tart, one more question and then I swear, I won't bother you again...

1) Does your wife suck black cock?

2) Is she fat?


I'll hang up and listen...

[poptart]

(1) only when AP has been smacked

(2) only when AP has been smacked

[Dr_Phibes]

Phibes? Are there even any dogs left in North Korea?

not since '53.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

Phibes? Are there even any dogs left in North Korea?

not since '53.

ZING!