Cali shoots and misses again...

[Left Seater]

Their latest attempt to "clean up" their air is aimed at the ocean shipping companies. They are attempting to mandate the type of fuel these ships use anytime they are within 24 miles of the Cali coast and headed for a Cali port. Problem is they only have three miles of state waters. Past that it is international water. Plus they tried this a few years ago and the courts shot them down.

If they were serious about polution they would fund more mass transit and make things intermodal. Or instead of saying that ships have to use a certain fuel they could allow oil tankers to dock in the states ports. One oil tanker has the same capacity as 12,000 trucks each carrying 8,000 gallons. One ship is a spec compaired to 12,000 trucks.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/200 ... sion_N.htm

The mexican ports and Portland and Seattle thank you as well. Enjoy more trucks on your highways Cali.

[Mikey]

Their latest attempt to "clean up" their air is aimed at the ocean shipping companies. They are attempting to mandate the type of fuel these ships use anytime they are within 24 miles of the Cali coast and headed for a Cali port. Problem is they only have three miles of state waters. Past that it is international water. Plus they tried this a few years ago and the courts shot them down.

If they were serious about polution they would fund more mass transit and make things intermodal. Or instead of saying that ships have to use a certain fuel they could allow oil tankers to dock in the states ports. One oil tanker has the same capacity as 12,000 trucks each carrying 8,000 gallons. One ship is a spec compaired to 12,000 trucks.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/200 ... sion_N.htm

The mexican ports and Portland and Seattle thank you as well. Enjoy more trucks on your highways Cali.

GFY you dimwitted moron. You've got a problem with California regulating some of the worst sources of air pollution left in the state? Why do you care anyway? Between the LA and Long Beach ports we have the fourth largest container port in terms of volume in the world and by far the largest in the US. And one major source of air pollution in the LA basin is all those ships idling at anchor offshore. Maybe the state can't regulate what ships do in international waters but I imagine that they can deny entry to any ship that they want to.

Another big source is all those trucks off loading the cargo and transporting inland. If it weren't for the ports of LA and Long Beach all you assholes in flyover country would be paying a helluva lot more for your Chinese clothing, toys and TV sets.

And if it weren't for Cali "shooting and missing" multiple times you can be sure that the pollution and energy efficiency regulations in the rest of the country would be a lot more lax than they are now. The state has always taken the lead on pollution, energy and safety - whether you think that's a good thing or not. Without California taking the lead on these issues and trying until they get it right Houston or whatever other shithole you live in in Texas would be an even bigger shithole than it is now.

[Mister Bushice]

Another big source is all those trucks off loading the cargo and transporting inland. If it weren't for the ports of LA and Long Beach all you assholes in flyover country would be paying a helluva lot more for your Chinese clothing, toys and TV sets.

The port of LA passed an ordinance last year that as of this October, trucks older than 1989 are banned. In 2010, the ban moves up to pre 1993, plus they will ban all unretrofitted 1994-2003 trucks from the Port after January 1, 2010, and finally they will ban pre-2007 trucks from the Port after January 1, 2012. They estimate it will reduce the pollution levels there by 80% over the next 5 years.

[Mikey]

I imagine that they can deny entry to any ship that they want to.

Brilliant idea. We don't need their stinking business anyway. The budget deficit is only about 17 billion. No biggie.

How much does each of those ships pay into the state treasury?

You don't think they need us as much as we need them? The ports of LA and Long Beach are their main connection to their biggest and best markets. Where else are they going to go? Dallas? Denver? Toledo?

They'll do what they're told.

[Mikey]

Another big source is all those trucks off loading the cargo and transporting inland. If it weren't for the ports of LA and Long Beach all you assholes in flyover country would be paying a helluva lot more for your Chinese clothing, toys and TV sets.

The port of LA passed an ordinance last year that as of this October, trucks older than 1989 are banned. In 2010, the ban moves up to pre 1993, plus they will ban all unretrofitted 1994-2003 trucks from the Port after January 1, 2010, and finally they will ban pre-2007 trucks from the Port after January 1, 2012. They estimate it will reduce the pollution levels there by 80% over the next 5 years.

Brilliant idea. We don't need their stinking business anyway. The budget deficit is only about 17 billion. No biggie.

They'll just take their business somewhere else. Like Denver or something.

[Dinsdale]

The state has always taken the lead on pollution, energy and safety .

How's those salmon doing?

How's all that electricity we're sending you doing?

[Dinsdale]

You don't think they need us as much as we need them? The ports of LA and Long Beach are their main connection to their biggest and best markets.

You get your cars from Portland.

BTW-I'm a freaking Constitutionalist... and even I'll grant that the Fed controls interstate and international trade, not the state of california... thank fucking goodness.


But FWIW -- container shipping has increased at the Port of Portland quite dramatically... because california can't help but fuck it up, and this area is definitely reaping the benefit of cali pissing off the shipping companies... bigtime. Thanks, california... this doesn't change your "shitty neighbor" staus, but it's a start.

[Mikey]

The state has always taken the lead on pollution, energy and safety .

How's those salmon doing?

How's all that electricity we're sending you doing?

Nice red salmon...err herring there dumbfuck.

California has the third lowest energy consumption (all fuels) per capita of all states. Considering the driving distances and amount of industry here compared to Rhode Island and New York (the two that are lower), I'd say that we're doing pretty well on that count.

The biggest problem here is population, both legal and illegal. I'm not saying the California is perfect but if we could get rid of a few millon illegal residents (Portland is pretty Spanish friendly, right?) we'd be a lot better off. The salmon problem is mostly a direct consequence of the fact that there's not enough water to go around.

[Left Seater]

GFY you dimwitted moron. You've got a problem with California regulating some of the worst sources of air pollution left in the state?

Right the ships entering Cali ports are some of the worst sources of pollution left? Do you actually believe that? LA/Long Beach saw 11,000 ships in 2006. That amount of pollution is about 30 seconds of your morning commute pollution. Ships are not even on the pollution radar. Espcially now that so many of them plug into ground power when they are in port, just like planes. Instead of running their engines or a smaller APU they take ground power.

Another big source is all those trucks off loading the cargo and transporting inland. If it weren't for the ports of LA and Long Beach all you assholes in flyover country would be paying a helluva lot more for your Chinese clothing, toys and TV sets.

Agreed in part. First as Mister Bushice points out the port is making it harder on those old trucks. But if they were serious they would have made them go to CNG. Further, trucks don't bring that stuff to the heartland, trains do. And now with NAFTA the mexican ports can get that stuff and throw it on trains and have it in TX and AZ almost as fast as from SoCal.

And if it weren't for Cali "shooting and missing" multiple times you can be sure that the pollution and energy efficiency regulations in the rest of the country would be a lot more lax than they are now.

So now Cali sets the limits for other states?

The state has always taken the lead on pollution, energy and safety

I guess rolling blackouts, smog and the like means taking a lead in your world. If Cali really wanted to take the lead they would allow tankers to offload at their ports. Instead they would rather have 12,000 trucks on the Cali highways spewing more pollution and helping to slow traffic even more, and therefore more pollution. Hell, if Cali were really taking the lead on this stuff they wouldn't be relying on Texas for power or running behind them in alternative energy sources.

Finally, I agree, Houston is a shithole, just like LA and most of the rest of SoCal, but that is why many of us choose to live outside of it.

[Mikey]

You don't think they need us as much as we need them? The ports of LA and Long Beach are their main connection to their biggest and best markets.

You get your cars from Portland.

BTW-I'm a freaking Constitutionalist... and even I'll grant that the Fed controls interstate and international trade, not the state of california... thank fucking goodness.


But FWIW -- container shipping has increased at the Port of Portland quite dramatically... because california can't help but fuck it up, and this area is definitely reaping the benefit of cali pissing off the shipping companies... bigtime. Thanks, california... this doesn't change your "shitty neighbor" staus, but it's a start.

Yeah right. Portland is a truly major player.

I definitely need to add a here

US Grand Total Load Containers (2005) inbound + outbound

1. Long Beach 5,200,080
2. Los Angeles 4,375,360
.
.
.
.
.
.
23. Portland 131,570


You rank between Palm Beach and Philadelphia.
Six places behind Anchorage, AL.

So, let's see...Long Beach averages more business in one day than Portland does in a year.

Yes...the U&L is truly leading the way here.

(You don't think any cars come through LA? Can you really be that stupid?)

[Mikey]

So now Cali sets the limits for other states?

You really are ignorant here, aren't you?

Most other states wait for California to enact their regulations and then they follow along. This happens for a lot of reasons, one of which is that they'd rather see California spend the money to do the heavy lifting on technical and legal research.

How many states are just waiting for CA to win their suit against the EPA so that they can follow on auto emission regulations?

Check the emissions regulations for small generation equipment in ERCOT (you know what ERCOT is, right?). They are modeled (copied) directly from the regulations set by CARB.

[Dinsdale]

[(2005)

container shipping has increased at the Port of Portland quite dramatically

Nice red salmon...err herring there dumbfuck..

Fucking. Motherfucking. Priceless.

(You don't think any cars come through LA? Can you really be that stupid?)

Nice red salmon...err herring there dumbfuck..

And it just gets better.

[Mikey]

2005 are the latest stats available dipshit. Can you find any more recent that show Portland increasing their business by, what, 30,000%?

You get your cars from Portland.

No, we don't. Dumbass.

[Dinsdale]

Dumbass.

Mikey thinks that wheat is shipped in containers, yet thinks other people are "dumbasses."


Getting better all the time.

[Left Seater]

If we all followed Cali's model we would be getting our power from where? Mexico? Canada? We would have power rationing?

Further I am not saying that Cali does everything wrong, but most of the stuff done misses the mark. They are going after the wrong things in the name of green. Again Cargo Ships aren't the issue and your state leaders know that. Instead this makes them look like they are doing something significant when really it is nothing.

Props to the port of LA, but if you are going to require truckers to spend all this money anyway, why not have them switch to CNG? It isn't like these are long trips. Most of the stuff is within the port yard.

[Mister Bushice]

If we all followed Cali's model we would be getting our power from where? Mexico? Canada? We would have power rationing?

Further I am not saying that Cali does everything wrong, but most of the stuff done misses the mark. They are going after the wrong things in the name of green. Again Cargo Ships aren't the issue and your state leaders know that. Instead this makes them look like they are doing something significant when really it is nothing.

Props to the port of LA, but if you are going to require truckers to spend all this money anyway, why not have them switch to CNG? It isn't like these are long trips. Most of the stuff is within the port yard.

Most of the Owner operator truckers with pre 1989 vehicles are SOL. They couldn't afford to convert. The fleet companies with large numbers of older vehicles don't want to spend the money, probably for the same reason.

Can't keep everyone happy. The port figures the environmental impact and the cost savings on the health care end of things down the road far exceeds the cost of the number of vehicles needing replacement now.

[Mikey]

Communist.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

Communist.

Yes?

Damn...another false alarm...


Phibes, put the stripper back in the cake, we're outta here.

[War Wagon]

The state has always taken the lead on pollution, energy and safety.

Not to mention alternative lifestyles like gay marriage, among many other remarkable feats of "leadership".

Thanks Cali, the other* 48 states wouldn't know what to do without you leading us around by the nipple ring.

*excluding Massachusetts.

[Mikey]

Dumbass.

Mikey thinks that wheat is shipped in containers, yet thinks other people are "dumbasses."


Getting better all the time.

Tell me where I said that, dumbass.

And Dinsdale thinks we get our cars from Portland.

Things just stay the same.

And BTW, we were talking about ships waiting to offload cargo in LA and Long Beach, not wheat being exported from wherever. You do know that the US exports 14 times as much wheat as it imports, right?

[Mikey]

Maybe you should move to Texas.

[Smackie Chan]

No biggie.

Not so loud. You'll scare Cuda.

[Mister Bushice]

no worries there. Cuda has run away from home to find and join biggies big top.

[Loganfan]

Not to mention how fucked up and anti individual-rights their gun laws are becoming. .

I will STILL be shooting any criminals on my property. It's all about 'fearing for your family's well-being'