Are the banks screwing home equity where you live?

[Mister Bushice]

We have a fucked up situation going on in the neighborhood of one of my houses. The people who are now getting reamed by their 5-1 arms that have come due are trying to negotiate with the banks to keep the interest rates where they are, or to rework the loan so they can keep their homes. The banks are saying "Fuck off", then they're foreclosing, then they're selling the homes off for waaay under market value to other people, mostly speculators and property acquisition companies.

Now this is fucking things up royally equity wise for people like me who can afford my homes and/or are not in a bad financial position. I'm watching houses in the neighborhood that should be selling for 100k more being taken away from the people who invested in them and live in them, ONLY because the banks are unwilling to negotiate with the homeowner.

Because of this I've looked into getting a lawyer to see if we can renegotiate our loan so we aren't so upside down and are more in tune with the current market prices, but we have to show hardship and then gamble that it will work - meaning hopefully the bank will negotiate. Highly unlikely.

The people across the street from us had a 5-1 ARM, it ballooned on them and they tried to negotiate with the bank but the bank said "no we already have a buyer" and sold it out from under them for 70K less than they were willing to negotiate.

Probably not much we can do, but it seems to me it should not be legal for the banks to manipulate the system like this and screw over everyone but themselves and speculators.

If the banks had been willing to negotiate with all of the people just in our neighborhood (there are 5 or 6 fo them), they'd have several hundred thousand dollars fewer losses, the home prices would have stabilized, and the homeowners would be staying put. Sucks.

edit: cue "sniveling whiny cunt" from mvscal in 3,2,.....

[smackaholic]

Let's see if I can beat mvs to the punch.

Sniveling whiny cunt.

Nobody put a gun to their heads. They took a risky loan because they couldn't afford a fixed one or were just stupid/greedy.

Fuck them. They gambled and lost. Now you think the bank owes them something? Wish I could sweet talk my mortgage holder into forgiving 60K of my principal, because then I wouldn't have a fukking mortgage any more. But, I made a deal. I am stuck with my horrific 4.6% FIXED mortgage.

As for dealing with the deadbeats, if they do, they set a realy, really bad precedent. Better to "sell it out from under them" and take a bigger loss, than give in as it will result in everybody and their brother doing likewise.

[Mister Bushice]

I have NO PROBLEM with them selling the homes. It's the PRICE they are selling them for.

I bought in on the downside, but not this bank created level of downside. I have a fixed 30 year, but I probably won't see a penny of equity for a decade or more.

Our fucking government has a bailout bill, but there is really no specific provision for helping homeowners. It really only benefits the banks. They pushed it through anyway, election year and all. Must keep up appearances.

I really only care about the loss of equity because of the way the banks are doing business right now. IF they were selling the homes below market, say within 5-10 % of the market price, I could live with that.

but they're 50% below, and the banks don't care. The people who are really getting screwed are the one who are paying and can continue to afford to pay, like me. The people who are being foreclosed on just walk away and start over.

And the banks will still make out in the long term.

There were some innocent people during the boom years who were victims of predatory lending practices who were talked into getting homes with the mistaken belief that they'd keep going up, but you're right, a lot of homes were bought based on greed and ignorance.

Still. :?

[War Wagon]

We have a fucked up situation going on in the neighborhood of one of my houses.

Now this is fucking things up royally equity wise for people like me who can afford my homes and/or are not in a bad financial position.

Because of this I've looked into getting a lawyer to see if we can renegotiate our loan so we aren't so upside down and are more in tune with the current market prices, but we have to show hardship and then gamble that it will work - meaning hopefully the bank will negotiate. Highly unlikely.

So, you own mortgages on more than one home and are now crying because your investments went south? Some hardship. The banks didn't screw your home equity, the market did. And you're part and parcel of that market

Bitch, you're one of the speculative assholes who cause the sub-prime mortgage mess to begin with and are now here looking for a sympathetic ear.

Go fuck yourself.

I hope the banks foreclose on every last one of your properties, ruin your credit, and leave you out on the curb begging for handouts.

[Mister Bushice]

Whitey whitey whitey. You dumbfuck. I didn't buy any house on "speculation". I live in one of them. On the other I made a choice between real estate investment and the stock market, because I watched people who did invest in the market lose huge jack because they didn't know how / have the time to watch trends and move their money around.

So yeah if this was the stock market, I'd have the option to move the money around. In real estate I have to be more patient. I can wait out this downtrend. No problem. 5 years from now all but one house I have will be back up in the black, in ten years I'll bail out on two of them and retire.

and try reading more and posting less you moron. Five years ago the banks were giving away money to people living in cardboard boxes like you to buy homes they could never afford. Now, 5 years later, they're taking the houses back but they are doing so in such a way as to cream the responsible property owners like me who did their homework and bought within their means.

[smackaholic]

bushy, you ignorant twat. The banks ARE selling at market prices. It's just unfortunate that suckers like you bought when the market was artifically high. And part of the reason, actually, the primary reason is speculators like yourself. Hopefully for your sake, you'll be able to rent the place out for enough to come close to covering the mortgage.

Tell me you weren't stupid enough to buy investment property with ARM money. If you were that fukking dumb, you deserve to loose ever cent you put into it.

[War Wagon]

5 years from now all but one house I have will be back up in the black, in ten years I'll bail out on two of them and retire.

Now, 5 years later, they're taking the houses back but they are doing so in such a way as to cream the responsible property owners like me who did their homework and bought within their means.

In the first quote, you're in the black. But in the second, you're getting "creamed".

So which is it, you duplicitous bitch?

I'll go with option #2. You bit off more than you could chew. Rack your entreprenurial spirit, but don't come crying when the bill comes due and you're left holding a worthless bag of shit.

[Derron]

bushy, you ignorant twat. The banks ARE selling at market prices. It's just unfortunate that suckers like you bought when the market was artifically high. And part of the reason, actually, the primary reason is speculators like yourself. Hopefully for your sake, you'll be able to rent the place out for enough to come close to covering the mortgage.

Tell me you weren't stupid enough to buy investment property with ARM money. If you were that fukking dumb, you deserve to loose ever cent you put into it.

Good god.. you all are fucking brilliant....did you really get an interest rate that you can pay, and still beat the market average over a 10 year period after you pay the mortgage ?...I doubt that...

You wonder why the banks are doing that ??

Your forget about the short sale ?? They are going to come after your ass for the difference in that sale price and the inflated amount you all borrowed to buy those dumps...

Growth stock mutual funds....anyone ?

[Mister Bushice]

bushy, you ignorant twat. The banks ARE selling at market prices. It's just unfortunate that suckers like you bought when the market was artifically high. And part of the reason, actually, the primary reason is speculators like yourself. Hopefully for your sake, you'll be able to rent the place out for enough to come close to covering the mortgage.

I bought in when the market was heading down, at well under the peak. For a year it was stable, and we were about even, then we were under a little but not too bad, but now they aren't selling the homes at close to market prices, they are selling to lowballers. Its a fucking fire sale. They're worried the Feds will come down on them for holding so much property in foreclosure, so they are bailing.

A physician down the street (we're not very far from a hospital) bought a house from a guy on a short sale through the bank, but the first homeowner presented the deal to the bank to get out from under, and the bank agreed as it was a fair deal. Market price for what was out there.

Two weeks later the SAME sized house two streets away in the same division was sold by the bank for 70k less, after it had sat for a month empty because the bank took the offer without a word or counter offer.
Granted they are not RE agents, but give me a fucking break. I spoke to the guy who bought it. He just made an offer and was surprised as shit when they said yes with no counter, when they had turned down the homeowner for so much more.

The banks should not be in the RE business, because they are fucking the comps all to shit to save their own asses.

The banks are creating a false bottom by underselling, SIGNIFICANTLY underselling. They are selling some of these homes at or close to what it would cost in materials and labor to build them.

Tell me you weren't stupid enough to buy investment property with ARM money. If you were that fukking dumb, you deserve to loose ever cent you put into it.

No fucking way. Never have had an ARM, never will.

I bought investment property with nothing down, based on equity I held in other property. I am really only concerned about one property, because of what the banks are doing to that neighborhood. I expected to see a return on that investment sooner than never.

and like I said, I'm in a position to afford what I have, I just don't want banks fucking with that investment.

Tell me this: If you invested in a fund where they made all kinds of claims on how well it would perform and those turned out to be shit claims because not long after you invested they changed the investment direction strategy in such a way as to make you lose money, would you not be a little miffed?

[RadioFan]

If I were you

I laughed.

And maybe you should let a close friend hold onto your guns and sharp items for a little while too.

Good point, Suicide21.

[Dinsdale]

Our fucking government has a bailout bill, but there is really no specific provision for helping homeowners. It really only benefits the banks.

Yup... and the moment it was proposed, banks had carte blanche to start forclosures at an alarming clip, since they were no longer left holding a bad note, and could start liquidating.

But as far as "helpinjg homeowners"... eat a fucking dick, you fucking communist. All you're saying, is that the government should play Perverted Robin Hood, and rob from everybody to pay off houses irresponsible people couldn't afford.


Stay out of my wallet, you theiving, immoral POS. Your mortgage ain't my problem.


BTW-Go ahead and keep reelecting the communists that passed this asinine legislation... I mean, what's a little Constitution between citizens, right?

[Dinsdale]

And another BTW...


Anyone else seeing the massive fucking funny here?

Douchice actually believes the banks are taking millions and millions of dollars in losses as part of some vast conspiracy to "screw his equity"... nevermind that said banks might someday want to do business with him based on his equity.


But nope -- banks aren't in business to make money -- they exist solely for the function of playing mean jokes on Douchice.



Nah, no tinfoil hat going on there or anything...

[BSmack]

Bushice,

What the fuck do you think I was talking about when I posted a month ago that the income to property price ratios in California were insane?

Meanwhile, my property has actually APPRECIATED since I purchased it, even in this "down" market. The only person you have to blame for your current mess is yourself for falling into the trap that say property prices MUST always go up, even if the wages of the people living in the area have remained stagnant relative to inflation for the last 3 decades.

[Mister Bushice]

Bushice,

What the fuck do you think I was talking about when I posted a month ago that the income to property price ratios in California were insane?

Meanwhile, my property has actually APPRECIATED since I purchased it, even in this "down" market. The only person you have to blame for your current mess is yourself for falling into the trap that say property prices MUST always go up, even if the wages of the people living in the area have remained stagnant relative to inflation for the last 3 decades.

you bought this very small 40 plus year old house in upstate new york for a very low price. Of course it will appreciate. It had nowhere down to go.

When the Agents, homeowners and the builders are selling homes within a certain price range and the banks come in and pull that rug out and undersell by a huge margin to get rid of all the bad loans/properties that THEY wrote.....

Meanwhile, the banks now have the feds pumping money into their back pockets to help "Save them"

Oh gee- whose money could that be?

and I KNEW there would be a downturn, but based on the price per sq ft I paid I wasn't pissed - until the banks blew that shit out of the water by having a massive fire sale.

Guy down the street from me lost his job (contractor), and he's been having trouble paying his mortgage, so he missed a couple of payments. All along he TRIED to talk to the bank about reworking his loan in some way, to get through this shitty economy, but NO. They foreclosed anyway, forced him to leave and sold it for less than half what his mortgage was, a price BELOW what he tried to negotiate with them.
This was not an irresponsible guy. Never a late payment until the construction work just died, but they couldn't swing the existing payment on the wifes salary alone.

So now he's in an apartment and some schmuck is enjoying the house he spent several years improving.
Why not negotiate with the homeowner in this case? The bank would have got a better deal, the guy and his wife could stay with the adjusted payment, the home price would have remained in a better range in the market, everybody wins.

All you're saying, is that the government should play Perverted Robin Hood, and rob from everybody to pay off houses irresponsible people couldn't afford.

That's exactly what they ARE doing, you dumb fuck, but they're also stealing them from responsible people who are victims of the economy and rising prices. The price of gas alone is putting some companies out of business. You can't lump everyone into one "irresponsible people" category.

[BSmack]

Bushice,

What the fuck do you think I was talking about when I posted a month ago that the income to property price ratios in California were insane?

Meanwhile, my property has actually APPRECIATED since I purchased it, even in this "down" market. The only person you have to blame for your current mess is yourself for falling into the trap that say property prices MUST always go up, even if the wages of the people living in the area have remained stagnant relative to inflation for the last 3 decades.

you bought this very small 40 plus year old house in upstate new york for a very low price. Of course it will appreciate. It had nowhere down to go.

Funny how that works. Buy low, sell higher. Your problem is that you bought properties that had a lot of room to go down. And now your bitching because they are going down.

When the Agents, homeowners and the builders are selling homes within a certain price range and the banks come in and pull that rug out and undersell by a huge margin to get rid of all the bad loans/properties that THEY wrote.....

It's called the free market. Maybe you've heard of it?

Meanwhile, the banks now have the feds pumping money into their back pockets to help "Save them"

Oh gee- whose money could that be?

Apples and oranges Bushie. Just because banks are being bought out doesn't mean you have a right to get a certain price on your property.

and I KNEW there would be a downturn, but based on the price per sq ft I paid I wasn't pissed - until the banks blew that shit out of the water by having a massive fire sale.

Guy down the street from me lost his job (contractor), and he's been having trouble paying his mortgage, so he missed a couple of payments. All along he TRIED to talk to the bank about reworking his loan in some way, to get through this shitty economy, but NO. They foreclosed anyway, forced him to leave and sold it for less than half what his mortgage was, a price BELOW what he tried to negotiate with them.
This was not an irresponsible guy. Never a late payment until the construction work just died, but they couldn't swing the existing payment on the wifes salary alone.

That's why you get a mortgage based on one salary, not two. If either my wife or I ever lose our jobs, we'll be able to make the mortgage. Maybe you people out in California should start thinking the same way.

Lemme guess, your buddy down the street probably got one of those loans based on limited or no income verification? And now that the banks have gotten wise, they see his current income and are pulling an LMAO? Or maybe, seeing as he's a contractor, once they saw his business debt they figured his credit was worth a case of Bud Rice on a good day?

So now he's in an apartment and some schmuck is enjoying the house he spent several years improving. Why not negotiate with the homeowner in this case? The bank would have got a better deal, the guy and his wife could stay with the adjusted payment, the home price would have remained in a better range in the market, everybody wins.

Yea, everybody wins except the last guy in on the Ponzi scheme that is the California real estate market. Sucks to be you guys. And meanwhile, people who are responsible and live within or below their means are weathering this down market just fine. Maybe you should have thought about that before basing your retirement income on one of the most volatile real estate markets in the United States.

[Mister Bushice]

Oh it will recover, It always has, and in the end I'll be fine. I bought in the right places for competitive prices. That isn't what this topic was about, anyway. I was curious if the same things were happening elsewhere.

If either my wife or I ever lose our jobs, we'll be able to make the mortgage. Maybe you people out in California should start thinking the same way.

Bah. I bought investment property, and I rent out some of it. I'm not in any position to worry about my personal income being responsible for losing any of it.

So you took the maximum conservative route and are nice and safe in your soon to be too small for your family house. Good for you.

I took my equity at the right time and bought other property, live in a nice big house that I enjoy, and on top of my income and the wifes we also have rental income on the other properties. That part does not suck at all. Eventually when the market rebounds, I'll get right back into doing just that.

The only thing - AGAIN - that sucks is the way the banks/lending institutions are fucking with the market. They're responsible on both ends. They wrote bad loans and now they want to bail out of the loan / property they should probably not have sold to those people in the first place. The irresponsibility extends beyond just the buyer.

[BSmack]

Oh it will recover, It always has, and in the end I'll be fine. I bought in the right places for competitive prices. That isn't what this topic was about, anyway. I was curious if the same things were happening elsewhere.

If they have a 13-1 average property price to average income ratio like California, then yea, I'll bet they are having the same problems.

Bah. I bought investment property, and I rent out some of it. I'm not in any position to worry about my personal income being responsible for losing any of it.

So you don't have to make mortgage payments? Before you posted that you were trying to negotiate with the banks for lower rates.

So you took the maximum conservative route and are nice and safe in your soon to be too small for your family house. Good for you.

By the time my house is "too small for me", I'll have taken a nice sum out of my principal balance.

Oh, I didn't tell you that I'm also paying extra principal payments each month? My long term goal is to buy the one acre property my parents have on the other side of town when they finally decide to retire and move south. My goal is to be ready, with 25% of the purchase price in hand and otherwise debt free when it is time to close on that property. That means I need to have just shy of 40k in either equity or cash ready to go when the time comes. So if they move south in 5-6 years, I'm good. If not, maybe I look into an addition. Considering the comps in my neighborhood, there's potential for some added value there.

I took my equity at the right time and bought other property, live in a nice big house that I enjoy, and on top of my income and the wifes we also have rental income on the other properties. That part does not suck at all. Eventually when the market rebounds, I'll get right back into doing just that.

If things are so fucking funky dory for you, NOW is the time you should be looking into buying the property. Especially if you're so certain the market will rebound.

The only thing - AGAIN - that sucks is the way the banks/lending institutions are fucking with the market. They're responsible on both ends. They wrote bad loans and now they want to bail out of the loan / property they should probably not have sold to those people in the first place. The irresponsibility extends beyond just the buyer.

So? You're still failing to show where the banks put a gun to the heads of the buyers of these ridiculously overpriced properties.

[Dinsdale]

Guy down the street from me lost his job (contractor)

Uhm... if a self-employed person (which all contractors are, by definition) "loses his job"...


He was due for a financial crash regardless of real estate markets.


Of course, the wise contractor is about drooling over the current state of things, since this rapidly-expanding forclosure market is going to create a lot of freaking work for home improvement contractors (which I've been trying to avoid, but economics might dictate my hands getting dirty in houses again).

[JayDuck]

Dumbfucks that got these loans in the first place, all of 'em. Fuck 'em all.

And the government shouldn't be stepping in, or bailing out these financial retards that thought interest only loans were a good idea 5 years ago.

My wife and I have been holding off on a house purchase the last couple years for just this very moment, precisely because we aren't bumbling retards, and we're in the process of snatching one up now that the prices have plummeted. When we first got married we saw tons of jackholes buying houses that we would struggle mightily to afford, that couldn't possibly make half of what we bring in. Instead of panicing and straining our finances, we just wait it out for these fuckers to go belly up instead.

[Left Seater]

Look, the problem isn't the banks, the buyers, etc. The problem is 95% of the properties are overvalued. What you are seeing the banks buy the properties for now are prolly their "real" value. Not their crazy inflated values that we saw for the last decade.

I have lived outside of Boston, outside of Philly, and multiple places in Texas. In Boston $200K got us an 1100 sq/ft townhouse built in 1977. In Philly $250K got us a 999 sq/ft home built in 1901. In Sugar Land $247K got us a 3800 sq/ft home with a pool and 3 car garage that we purchased new. We knew the first two were way overvalued, but we also knew we would only be in each for 18 to 24 months and had a company behind us that would keep us whole if the market fell. No such worries about that here in Sugar Land, as the home is prolly still in today's market undervalued.

[KC Scott]

Will,

You don't say who the bank is that holds the notes on these properties, but I'm 99% sure they are moving the paper to whomever can qualify to buy beacuse they are in serious cash flow shortage. It's what happened to IndyMac and Bear Stearns.

No other banks will touch the paper on houses in receivership, so they are fucked unless they originate new loans, even if the prinipal is less and then sell that loan into the secondary market. Whenever you hear the media talk about "liquidity shortage" it means there is no money out there to buy investments.

The exact opposite was true 5 years ago. There was so much money available that the banks and brokers would give it to anone that would take it. That liquidity is what created the "bubble" - giving money to people who would then vastly overspend on houses they reasonably couldn't qualify for under conventional terms. It's also how ARMs were really born - They could qualify some loser making $45K to buy a $600K house when the initial rate was 2% - then they'd just tell the schmuck to flip it in 2 years to some other schmuck at a 5% + gain. It was all just a house of cards.

When I turned my old house into a rental, I pulled 80% of the equity back out (I had paid it off already) and put it on a 5% 15 yr. note. You wouldn't believe the sales pitch I got trying to get me to go ARM instead. No fucking way.

BTW - I wouldn't count on real estate prices coming back to 2007 pre-bubble prices in the hardest hit areas - FL. NV, CA for at least 3 yrs. or more probably. I'm also thinking we see a few more bank failures during this period

[War Wagon]

The irresponsibility extends beyond just the buyer.

On that I will agree.

In many cases, unscrupulous mortgage brokers pressured weak-kneed and all too eager appraisers to artificially inflate the value of a home in order to "hit a number". This is especially prevalent where cash strapped homeowners looking for quick relief took out 2nd and 3rd mortgages or home equity loans to pay off credit card debt or whatever... on equity that didn't exist.

Voila! They're in over their head. They can't make the new payments, and they can't sell the home for what they owe on it.

So basically, they're fucked. But as has been said, nobody forced them to sign those papers.

[smackaholic]

Bushy, You still don't hear what I am saying.

Let's say I have a 200K note on my house. Let's say I like the house and want to stay in it for as long as possible and I actually MAKE MY FUKKING PAYMENTS!!! Now let's say my dipshit neighbor can't make his payments for whatever fukking reason you want. It doesn't matter what it is. So dipshit neighbor goes to the mortgage holder and says waaaaaaaaahhhhhh I can't afford a 200K mortgage, but, if you eat 50K, I'll be good. If said mortgage company says, allright, dipshit, we'll do it because the alternative is to sell it for even less, guess what? I am gonna be in mr mortgage dude's office the next fukking day looking for my 50K discount.

Now tell me why dipshit neighbor deserves a break and I don't.

I'll take your answer offline. TIA.

[Dinsdale]

A fool and his money are soon parted.

Pretty much sums it up.


"Whaaaa! My house is in foreclosure! The big bad bank sold me a mortgage I couldn't afford! BAIL ME OUT!"


My question is:






Why?



The people falling for the ARM shit and interest only and all that stuff...



Are going to have their money taken by someone.


That's the way the world works, kiddies... and has since the day the first slug grew limbs and crawled from the mud and called itself human.


These horrifically stupid peoples' friends, families, and charities can bail them out. Having everyone else do it at the point of a gun is as idiotic as it is immoral. Plus it creates an extra layer of beauracracy that the McCains and Obamas can skim their share off.



Once again, you stupid fucks should be ashamed of yourselves.

[War Wagon]

Dins, I don't disagree with what you just posted, but have to ask:

Do you have a mortgage?

Have you ever had a mortgage?

I'll hang up and listen to your response.

[KC Scott]

and interest only and all that stuff....

When they rolled that out you knew the end was near.

They were even shooting a plan where you could make 80% of the interest payment - but what the idiots didn't look at was the 20% you didn't pay was applied to the principle.

There were plenty of them that owed more after the first year than they had paid for the house.

But in reality this is the same group that makes minimum monthly payments on their credit cards, so all they really look at is do I have enough budget to pay the bills every month.

[Felix]

if you're buying a single family residence as an "investment" property, you're getting exactly what you deserve

single family dwellings simply don't cash flow so you're supplementing the mortgage betting on the come that the value of the property would increase....guess what, it took a dive and you're left holding the bag

you took the risk and you lost

[Mister Bushice]

Will,

You don't say who the bank is that holds the notes on these properties, but I'm 99% sure they are moving the paper to whomever can qualify to buy beacuse they are in serious cash flow shortage. It's what happened to IndyMac and Bear Stearns.

No other banks will touch the paper on houses in receivership, so they are fucked unless they originate new loans, even if the prinipal is less and then sell that loan into the secondary market. Whenever you hear the media talk about "liquidity shortage" it means there is no money out there to buy investments.

The exact opposite was true 5 years ago. There was so much money available that the banks and brokers would give it to anone that would take it. That liquidity is what created the "bubble" - giving money to people who would then vastly overspend on houses they reasonably couldn't qualify for under conventional terms. It's also how ARMs were really born - They could qualify some loser making $45K to buy a $600K house when the initial rate was 2% - then they'd just tell the schmuck to flip it in 2 years to some other schmuck at a 5% + gain. It was all just a house of cards.

I said that 4 years ago when Bush was touting the "every american can own a home" BS, and that his economic strength was built on exactly that - a house of cards.

When I turned my old house into a rental, I pulled 80% of the equity back out (I had paid it off already) and put it on a 5% 15 yr. note. You wouldn't believe the sales pitch I got trying to get me to go ARM instead. No fucking way.

BTW - I wouldn't count on real estate prices coming back to 2007 pre-bubble prices in the hardest hit areas - FL. NV, CA for at least 3 yrs. or more probably. I'm also thinking we see a few more bank failures during this period

And, ah, Finally, a reasoned response. I really seriously started this as a PM to you, but then said WTF? and posted it here. My bad.

Anyway, I don't know who the banks are - yet. I will soon. My financial advisor guy is now working on finding a lawyer for me.

I did something similar to you. I pulled out equity from paid off property, and invested it in gold. so far, I have nearly tripled that investment.

I also get the time frame for recovery, and I'm good with it. I just don't like the banks fucking with the system, but if they do, I can try as well, legally.

My Premise here in this thread is that the banks here are fucking Americans up the ass twice, and no one seems too concerned. I AM.

And I want to find a way to counter that shit. That is all. Thanks for the reply, Scott. I should have Pm'ed you and avoided the real estate special olympics entrants comments.

That won't happen again. Next thread of mine here will be about how I hate George bush, so I get racked.

So you don't have to make mortgage payments? Before you posted that you were trying to negotiate with the banks for lower rates.

NO NO NO - Jesus fucking kee-rist, Bsmack did you fucking read the first post? I said I WANTED TO, I said I was looking into getting a RE lawyer to see what I could do to level the playing field.

Of course I have mortgage payments. I also value my investments, and I will do ANYTHING to keep them as valued as possible, including trying to avoid getting assfucked by the banks at every fucking turn.

and stop comparing upstate NY RE to California, except for perhaps weed*, ca. prices.

I would have thought you'd see that geography makes a diff, what with manhattan RE being what it is compared to crapchester.

*because you're fucking high if you think coastal, big city, and so california property value is equal to upshite new york state.








Seriously done here. I'll leaving tardsdale to nit pick the klingons so he thinks he gets over, as usualm.

[BSmack]

So you don't have to make mortgage payments? Before you posted that you were trying to negotiate with the banks for lower rates.

NO NO NO - Jesus fucking kee-rist, Bsmack did you fucking read the first post? I said I WANTED TO, I said I was looking into getting a RE lawyer to see what I could do to level the playing field.

Of course I have mortgage payments. I also value my investments, and I will do ANYTHING to keep them as valued as possible, including trying to avoid getting assfucked by the banks at every fucking turn.

But yet in another post you claim the RE market in SoCal will rebound. If the market is going to rebound, then why hire a lawyer to try to drive up your current valuation when you already think it is going to go back up anyway? Why even THINK about it?

That is, unless you already know deep in your heart that you're never going to get that equity back.

and stop comparing upstate NY RE to California, except for perhaps weed*, ca. prices. I would have thought you'd see that geography makes a diff, what with manhattan RE being what it is compared to crapchester.

*because you're fucking high if you think coastal, big city, and so california property value is equal to upshite new york state.

I wasn't comparing property prices. I was comparing price to wage ratios. There's big fucking difference. What you're doing is what the average douche does to try to convince themselves they're sitting on a gold mine and not a house of cards. What I am doing is a matter of simple common sense math to determine what the market can bear. But hey, keep living in a fantasy world that says a property's price has nothing to do with the ability of the area's residents to pay for said property.

BTW, location has precious little to do with the boom in CA real estate the last 30 years. The artificial capping of real property taxes is what has driven up valuations in your neck of the woods. But even when you factor in lower property taxes, you're still paying WAY too much for houses in that market relative to your income.

[KC Scott]

I wasn't comparing property prices. I was comparing price to wage ratios. There's big fucking difference. What you're doing is what the average douche does to try to convince themselves they're sitting on a gold mine and not a house of cards. What I am doing is a matter of simple common sense math to determine what the market can bear. But hey, keep living in a fantasy world that says a property's price has nothing to do with the ability of the area's residents to pay for said property.

It's the supply and demand equation - but with demand predicated on the ability to buy. With all the free money that was tossed out around over the past 5 years, the demand was artifically inflated in markets like Socal.

In the midwest we saw a huge influx of Callys who had just sold their houses with cap gains of a million or more come here and buy houses twice as big as they left for 1/3 the price.