Here's your bill for $3,333 -

[Felix]

You're blaming the federal government for NOT PASSING LAWS AGAINST STUPIDITY.

I'm blaming the Federal Government for Bailing out the companies that enabled stupid people to buy houses they couldn't afford.

stupid people often times need legislation to protect them from themselves

[Mister Bushice]

It was there, it was recognized, but no one who was supposed to do something did anything about it.

That darned oversight issue just keeps on a croppin' back up.

[Felix]

They might, but we don't.

sure we do, otherwise we'll be picking up another tab to the tune of 700 billion

fuck those douchebags

[Felix]

Who says we have to pick up their tab?

uh our illustrious leader and those that control the purse strings?

Oh and don't get stuck on 700 billion. That is a ridiculously low ball figure. The number is 700 billion outstanding at any given time. Now consider that Fannie and Freedie alone have about 5 trillion dollars on the books and start doing the math.

of course it's extremely low, but you have to remember these mortgages are backed by physical assets (e.g. lots and lots of vacant houses)...while they certainly aren't worth what they're on the books for, they do have some (as of yet determined) value

at least that's what they're trying to sell us

[Felix]

They can go fuck themselves. I'll take the recession over this socialist monstrosity, thank you very much.

ditto.....

[KC Scott]

They can go fuck themselves. I'll take the recession over this socialist monstrosity, thank you very much.

ditto.....

Make it 3 - This is fucked

But on the Bright side they're using it as the excuse today to start the rally I mentioned.

Anybody buying this can lookt to hold through December (pending anything else horiffic) - but it's a sell before Jan.1

[Tom In VA]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/25/ ... index.html

Well it sounds as if there's a glimmer of hope.

NEW: Republican senator says no bailout deal is coming

GOP leaders having difficulty getting Republicans on board

McCain, Obama meet with Bush, politicians at White House

Democrats fear that McCain will take credit for agreement on bailout

Maybe just "grandstanding" but it doesn't seem like a done deal yet.

[Dinsdale]

VoteNoBailout.org

[Tom In VA]

VoteNoBailout.org

Instead of taking our tax dollars and giving it to the already rich and powerful, these funds should be used provide to decent paying jobs, affordable housing, health care and a good education for our children. There is another way!

Isn't this still socialism ?



Why ?

Congress should help families stay in their homes. Wealthy executives should be forced to disgorge their obscene profits, fees and bonuses that made them ultra-rich while they ran the economy into the ground.

I don't necessarily think congress should do anything. Wealthy executives found guilty of fraud in a court of law, should be required to pay restitution and serve time but I don't agree with a wholesale witch hunt on "wealthy executives". These dudes took a job based on a contract of a certain compensation package and shareholders agreed to it.



Not really into the bailout here, I fear it will cause more harm than good, but I don't agree with this website you've provided.

[Dinsdale]

Not really into the bailout here, I fear it will cause more harm than good, but I don't agree with this website you've provided.

Neither do I, really.

But see, they help you fill out a form letter... and I'm quite familiar with the writing abilities of the people posting here.

[Felix]

VoteNoBailout.org

done

(not that I think it'll do any good, but it made me feel better)

[Dinsdale]

Why not just break off an email to your Representative yourself?

I'm quite capable, as are you.

But take a browse down CulDeSmack, and see if you think it isn't a good idea to offer help with the outline.

Dear Friends:

The financial meltdown the economists of the Austrian School predicted has arrived.

We are in this crisis because of an excess of artificially created credit at the hands of the Federal Reserve System. The solution being proposed? More artificial credit by the Federal Reserve. No liquidation of bad debt and malinvestment is to be allowed. By doing more of the same, we will only continue and intensify the distortions in our economy - all the capital misallocation, all the malinvestment - and prevent the market's attempt to re-establish rational pricing of houses and other assets.

Last night the president addressed the nation about the financial crisis. There is no point in going through his remarks line by line, since I'd only be repeating what I've been saying over and over - not just for the past several days, but for years and even decades.

Still, at least a few observations are necessary.

The president assures us that his administration "is working with Congress to address the root cause behind much of the instability in our markets." Care to take a guess at whether the Federal Reserve and its money creation spree were even mentioned?

We are told that "low interest rates" led to excessive borrowing, but we are not told how these low interest rates came about. They were a deliberate policy of the Federal Reserve. As always, artificially low interest rates distort the market. Entrepreneurs engage in malinvestments - investments that do not make sense in light of current resource availability, that occur in more temporally remote stages of the capital structure than the pattern of consumer demand can support, and that would not have been made at all if the interest rate had been permitted to tell the truth instead of being toyed with by the Fed.

Not a word about any of that, of course, because Americans might then discover how the great wise men in Washington caused this great debacle. Better to keep scapegoating the mortgage industry or "wildcat capitalism" (as if we actually have a pure free market!).

Speaking about Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the president said: "Because these companies were chartered by Congress, many believed they were guaranteed by the federal government. This allowed them to borrow enormous sums of money, fuel the market for questionable investments, and put our financial system at risk."

Doesn't that prove the foolishness of chartering Fannie and Freddie in the first place? Doesn't that suggest that maybe, just maybe, government may have contributed to this mess? And of course, by bailing out Fannie and Freddie, hasn't the federal government shown that the "many" who "believed they were guaranteed by the federal government" were in fact correct?

Then come the scare tactics. If we don't give dictatorial powers to the Treasury Secretary "the stock market would drop even more, which would reduce the value of your retirement account. The value of your home could plummet." Left unsaid, naturally, is that with the bailout and all the money and credit that must be produced out of thin air to fund it, the value of your retirement account will drop anyway, because the value of the dollar will suffer a precipitous decline. As for home prices, they are obviously much too high, and supply and demand cannot equilibrate if government insists on propping them up.

It's the same destructive strategy that government tried during the Great Depression: prop up prices at all costs. The Depression went on for over a decade. On the other hand, when liquidation was allowed to occur in the equally devastating downturn of 1921, the economy recovered within less than a year.

The president also tells us that Senators McCain and Obama will join him at the White House today in order to figure out how to get the bipartisan bailout passed. The two senators would do their country much more good if they stayed on the campaign trail debating who the bigger celebrity is, or whatever it is that occupies their attention these days.

F.A. Hayek won the Nobel Prize for showing how central banks' manipulation of interest rates creates the boom-bust cycle with which we are sadly familiar. In 1932, in the depths of the Great Depression, he described the foolish policies being pursued in his day - and which are being proposed, just as destructively, in our own:

Instead of furthering the inevitable liquidation of the maladjustments brought about by the boom during the last three years, all conceivable means have been used to prevent that readjustment from taking place; and one of these means, which has been repeatedly tried though without success, from the earliest to the most recent stages of depression, has been this deliberate policy of credit expansion.

To combat the depression by a forced credit expansion is to attempt to cure the evil by the very means which brought it about; because we are suffering from a misdirection of production, we want to create further misdirection - a procedure that can only lead to a much more severe crisis as soon as the credit expansion comes to an end... It is probably to this experiment, together with the attempts to prevent liquidation once the crisis had come, that we owe the exceptional severity and duration of the depression.

The only thing we learn from history, I am afraid, is that we do not learn from history.

The very people who have spent the past several years assuring us that the economy is fundamentally sound, and who themselves foolishly cheered the extension of all these novel kinds of mortgages, are the ones who now claim to be the experts who will restore prosperity! Just how spectacularly wrong, how utterly without a clue, does someone have to be before his expert status is called into question?

Oh, and did you notice that the bailout is now being called a "rescue plan"? I guess "bailout" wasn't sitting too well with the American people.

The very people who with somber faces tell us of their deep concern for the spread of democracy around the world are the ones most insistent on forcing a bill through Congress that the American people overwhelmingly oppose. The very fact that some of you seem to think you're supposed to have a voice in all this actually seems to annoy them.

I continue to urge you to contact your representatives and give them a piece of your mind. I myself am doing everything I can to promote the correct point of view on the crisis. Be sure also to educate yourselves on these subjects - the Campaign for Liberty blog is an excellent place to start. Read the posts, ask questions in the comment section, and learn.

H.G. Wells once said that civilization was in a race between education and catastrophe. Let us learn the truth and spread it as far and wide as our circumstances allow. For the truth is the greatest weapon we have.

In liberty,




Ron Paul

[Felix]

Why not just break off an email to your Representative yourself? I gave mine both barrels earlier.

done....

[Tom In VA]

Well I wrote Webb, Friday. Just sent an email to Wolf.

[poptart]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qLefrvxbq8


Listen to the fella you SHOULD HAVE voted for.


the troof

[BSmack]

(not that I think it'll do any good, but it made me feel better)

Don't think that. They do react to pressure from constituents if you keep at them.

'No deal' on Bush bail-out plan
3 hours ago

President George Bush's emergency meeting to solve the economic crisis in America failed to reach an agreement, a top senator involved has said.

Senator Richard Shelby told reporters outside the White House that he did not believe there was an agreement and that the proposals by US Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson constituted a "bad plan".

http://ukpress.google.com/article/ALeqM ... ZyrJhVDH6w

Yea, and that had nothing to do with McCain landing in Washington and needing to take credit for a plan.

[KC Scott]

It's going to pass.

It's not their money they are giving away.

I bought a 1000 SSO at $52.40 this morning in anticipation of the up when they announce it's a done deal.
BAC and JP Morgan already up -

If they're giving away money I guess we should try and profit from it.

[Tom In VA]

Yea, and that had nothing to do with McCain landing in Washington and needing to take credit for a plan.

Which plan ?

The Democrats are crying that the Republicans are holding things up. Why ? They a have a majority in both houses. Seems to me they can pass whatever plan they think is right.

[Dinsdale]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qLefrvxbq8


Listen to the fella you SHOULD HAVE voted for.

And to think -- just a few months ago, people laughed at The Revolution.


They aren't laughing now.

The Revolutionists were right, the detractors were wrong. Pity it's become this painfully obvious.

[Felix]

Every day it becomes more clear that Buuhhhhrack O'same is the status quo candidate.

dude, make up your mind....you vilify Obama as being the major roadblock to everything the Republicans want to do, then turn around and say he does nothing.....

for you he's got to be one or the other but can't be both

[Cuda]

It's going to pass.

It's not their money they are giving away.

I bought a 1000 SSO at $52.40 this morning in anticipation of the up when they announce it's a done deal.
BAC and JP Morgan already up -

If they're giving away money I guess we should try and profit from it.

Your crapulence on all things economic is already well established

Feel free to shut the fuck up at your earliest convenience

[KC Scott]

Commodities dropping hard this morning, even gold.

Again, good sign we're getting very close to stocks taking off on the rally.

[Cuda]

crapulence = full of shit

[KC Scott]

All 3 indexes climbing and it's not even 3:30 yet - Dow Green - SP500 and Naz almost even.

Da Boys kep prices down this morning to close their short positions and get long.

Must mean the announcement is imminent

[Tom In VA]

Must mean the announcement is imminent

Reminds me of a Carlin sketch where he suggested they change the word "kill" to "fuck" in the old western's.

"Well, Sheriff, looks like we're gonna have to fuck ya now. And we're gonna fuck ya sloooow".

So by "announcement" I imagine you mean Cowboy Bush will be getting on the tube saying "Well, America, looks like we're gonna have to fuck ya now. And we're gonna fuck ya sloooow".

Don't bother buying stock in KY, they won't be using it.

[Felix]

O'Same is totally on board with Chimpy's brilliant plan.

That's fucking bullshit and you know it.

Mr. Obama, at his own swiftly assembled news conference in Clearwater, Fla., was more critical than Mr. McCain of the bailout plan, and in both his tone and remarks sought to come across as the leader of the opposition party at a time of national crisis. Although he was in large part reiterating the concerns that Congressional Democrats have been expressing to reporters and at hearings in Washington, his goal was to encompass the various Democratic messages in one voice that would be a counterweight to the Republican position coming from the Bush administration.

“The president’s stubborn inflexibility is both unacceptable and disturbingly familiar,” Mr. Obama said, referring to Mr. Bush’s comments in recent days that Congress approve the administration’s bailout plan as presented. “This is not the time for my way or the highway.”

Mr. Obama added: “It is wholly unreasonable to expect American taxpayers would or should hand this administration, or any administration, a $700 billion blank check with absolutely no oversight. The American people have every right to certain protections and assurances from Washington.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/24/us/po ... paign.html

We all get the fact that you hate him (primarily based on his race) but really, why do you insist on lying about this shit?

So let me ask you, do you think it's more important that the American people find out what his long range plans to address the economic crisis (say via a debate) should he become President, or do you think it's more important that he add his voice to the hundreds of others in the Congress debating the merits of Bushes plan?

[Tom In VA]

Well, they didn't agree with the bill as originally penned because:


1. It didn't let homeowners off the hook at all.
2. Didn't include "capping" exec salaries.
3. Didn't go after criminal CEO's - Wait, I'm not so sure they really wanted an investigation, might reveal too much
4. They want to Bail out the Auto industry too. Michigan is in play.
5. Another 56 Billion for an economic stimulus package to bail out middle class families. The Obvious.

[Felix]

You think their little toy committee and caps on executive comp are going to make one iota of difference?

Get a fucking clue, douche.

you didn't read the article did you?

the primary gist of it is that the Democrats are not going to agree to give Paulson free reign ....they simply will not stipulate to the provision that Hank and his buddies can do what they want with no fear of reprisal (which is exactly what Bush was calling for)

why you'd be defending that type idiocy is beyond me....there's alot more to it than simply curbing CEO's salaries

[Mikey]

Didn't homeowner's already get their 300 billion dollar hog trough feeding?

The rest is just lipstick on a pig.

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5jS9 ... FnDkQhxmMA

Sexist.

Animalist.

[Felix]

Those are minor, cosmetic details. The primary gist of it is that it won't make a shit of difference to your pocketbook.

I'm not sure what it is your arguing here....you seem to be in favor of this atrocity now....

and of course it will affect my pocket book...they're either going to have to borrow it (which is going to further devalue the dollar which in turn will reduce my buying power), or they'll simply print up a bunch of money which will devalue the dollar and reduce my buying power....

take your pick...either way, I'm affected negatively

soon, the only value the dollar will have is to wipe my ass with

[Cuda]

if rape is inevitable, you might as well lay back & enjoy it

[KC Scott]

First vote from Congress - NO

Markets down huge right now

[KC Scott]

So the interesting thing about this is that the people are getting what they want - The bailout is on hold or potentially off the table.

The question is, once they see their 201K balance are they still going to be in favor of it?

Complete and total panic in the markets today - One of the better suggestions I heard was having the FDIC guarantee deposits in bans up to 1 million as opposed to the 100,000 in place now.

Very interesting day indeed

[KC Scott]

in the FDIC case, they're trying to stop the proverbial "run on the banks" - There's quite a few folks that have over 100,000 in any given bank, and by insuring they don't get wiped out you also prevent them from withdrawing their assets and causing failure of the financial institution.

Of course, a lot of the prolitariate will just say "fuck 'em" - they didn't deserve to save all that money -

[Tom In VA]

Clicking that link resulted in:

"Service Unavailable"



No shit.

[KC Scott]

OK - so now we see who has the "balls of steel' - or is just flat out stupid.

I'm trying to qualify for both - Bought SP500 and Nasdaq today - holding a 50% position

[Goober McTuber]

OK - so now we see who has the "balls of steel' - or is just flat out stupid.

My rep voted for it, she has no balls at all.

[Cuda]

OK - so now we see who has the "balls of steel' - or is just flat out stupid.

I'm trying to qualify for both -

sig material

[Tom In VA]

Well my rep voted for it, against my demands. I'm going to have to call him.

Circa 2005

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Posting this just because I find it interesting to match their 2005 views with today's and of course, how they voted.

[RadioFan]

Looks like they delivered.

Along with 95 Democrats.

Lots of major cajones today in the House. I didn't think they had it in them.