Here's your bill for $3,333 -

[KC Scott]

So they will "negotiate" the deal - maybe it really is the earmarks that stopped it.

Again, IMHO there is Zero, Zilch, Nada chance that this bailout doesn't happen in some shape or form.

You think those reps got a ton of calls today?

Wait till Joe 401K Wagon gets home today and see's his retirement just shrunk by another 6%.

Let's all just assimilate now, shall we comrades?

[Felix]

Again, IMHO there is Zero, Zilch, Nada chance that this bailout doesn't happen in some shape or form.

really, there's no choice in the matter otherwise this country is headed for-yeah, I know nobody wants to say it but it's a fact nonetheless-a Depression that will pale the 29 crash comparatively speaking

[Cuda]

Looks like they delivered.

Along with 95 Democrats.

Lots of major cajones today in the House. I didn't think they had it in them.

They don't. Pelosi pissed off the republicans just before the vote with a partisan attack so hey basically said "no, Mrs Pelosi, fuck YOU"

[Cuda]

I know nobody wants to say it but it's a fact nonetheless-a Depression that will pale the 29 crash comparatively speaking

What bullshit.

what made the great depression great was the length, not the depth, and FDR's socialist policies kept the economy from recovering 10 years longer than it would have done on its own

[Tom In VA]

Seems to me you could solve this problem cheaper by just putting $500,000 in the pockets of every person in the country.

300,000,000 * 500,000 = $150,000,000,000,000

[MuchoBulls]

My rep voted for it

My rep voted against it, so she gets my vote again.

[War Wagon]

Wait till Joe 401K Wagon gets home today and see's his retirement just shrunk by another 6%.

Bwah... yeah, that sucks BIGTIME. But I'm a good 15-20 years from retirement and can hopefully weather this storm. What sucks more is all the jobs that people will lose when companies can't buy raw material/inventory and can't make their payroll, and that's going to happen soon if the credit market doesn't loosen up.

Hell, it's already happening. My company went from 3 shifts to 2 a few months ago and is getting ready to cut back to 1 next week. Another 60 decent paying mfg. jobs and people gone out the door, and no assurance of if/when those jobs will come back. Probably not until the domestic housing market rebounds, and that could be a year or more.

And there aren't many decent job openings out there right now. I don't know what sector of the economy others here work in, but this is going to affect everyone in one way or another.

[Felix]

I know nobody wants to say it but it's a fact nonetheless-a Depression that will pale the 29 crash comparatively speaking

What bullshit.

lets see on one side we've got

Warren Buffet

vs.

mvscal

sorry dawg, I think I've got to go with the guy that's forgotten more about the US economy than you'll ever know

[Felix]

I win.

really?

http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/28/news/ec ... 2008092811

"the biggest financial meltdown in American history"

sorry, I'm still going with Buffet-but your "I win" argument almost had me convinced

[KC Scott]

Again, IMHO there is Zero, Zilch, Nada chance that this bailout doesn't happen in some shape or form.

It isn't going to happen in this or any other form. This is a non-starter. The country getting sick and motherfucking tired of bailing out dickheaded assholes.

Agreed, but the American public also has a small resolve when it hits them even closer to home than the taxes they will pay.

Look at all the boomers who are/were planning to hit the beaches over the next few years.
Probably Not happening for them now -

It will be a lot easier for them to say "fuck the next 2 generations" and wimp out on doing the right thing.

[Mister Bushice]

The vote was missed by 23 votes.

I would think that at least 23 of the holdouts will cave by Thursday.

[Mister Bushice]

The vote was missed by 23 votes.

I would think that at least 23 of the holdouts will cave by Thursday.

Cave on what? The vote is closed, dumbass.

You don't think a new proposal of the same thing will be on the board by Thursday?

Come on.

[RadioFan]

The vote was missed by 23 votes.

I would think that at least 23 of the holdouts will cave by Thursday.

Cave on what? The vote is closed, dumbass.

There's already talk about resurrecting the measure when Congress gets back in session on Thursday, with proponents hoping to retwist arms.

The economic doomsday scenarios are vastly exaggerated and almost always by people with a vested interest in the passage of this legislation.

Sorry, I'm not buying it and neither is the public.

Exactly. Even the proponents can't guarantee this plan will work.

[Mister Bushice]

One thing for sure the numbskulls in congress will be certain to take care of themselves. They'll be fielding calls from all their finance pals for the next few days. I really don't see nothing being done.

[KC Scott]

It won't. The economic doomsday scenarios are vastly exaggerated and almost always by people with a vested interest in the passage of this legislation.

Agreed - or the stupid.

Im watching Cramer melt right now - Classic.

He had the President of Wachovia on a couple weeks ago telling everyone just how strong their Bank was.

Sorry, I'm not buying it and neither is the public.

You're vastly overestimating the American public - both on intelligence and fortitude

[War Wagon]

The economic doomsday scenarios are vastly exaggerated and almost always by people with a vested interest in the passage of this legislation.

To the guy who loses his job and can't afford to provide for his family, this doomsday scenario will not be an exaggeration.

This will affect everyone because everyone has a vested interest.

Sorry, I'm not buying it and neither is the public.

The howls of outrage over the necessity for the bail-out in the first place will now be exceeded by the shriller howls of not getting it done. This absolutely needed to happen, and still does.

It didn't happen because so many people were so busy pointing fingers at each other, they didn't have the cajones to do what needed to be done.

[KC Scott]

Make no mistake, the American public killed this bill.

Agreed - but this was before a 777 pt. Dow drop today.

There will be some type of bailout - they'll dress it up or call it something else, but Uncle Sam will fund the credit markets and control additional assets as a result.

I'm watching CSNBC with the "Is your Money Safe" and "Wall St. in Crisis" banners looking just like the day after 9-11.

They are throwing out fear, lots and lots of fear.

And we all know how the American public responds to fear.

[Felix]

We don't need a bailout. Stop filling your head with shit from people who are intent on robbing you.

then by all means post your evidence that this is some sort of ripoff by the conglomerate types

there are a lot of economic experts that won't benefit from this in any way that are saying the same thing Buffet is saying

[War Wagon]

We don't need a bailout.

What do we need, then... soup lines?

[Mister Bushice]

You have waaay more faith in the cud chewing public than I do.

An evening of watching the pro bush news channels that will paint this up as a disaster of epic proportions and that will sway a whole bunch of people towards, not away.

Personally, I don't think they should be bailed out. Let the hard times come and then they will go, and then let's see if anyone ever tries this level of greed again.

I've been on board for blaming the brokers, lenders and banks for this shit from the start. We will suffer either way, but they will only suffer if we don't help them, so fuck 'em. The markets will recover, they always do. let the private industry sharks jump in. It's almost feeding time.

[KC Scott]

We're all feared out over here. The Bush administration has gone to that well once too often.

- You are kidding, right?

Whether you watch financial news, the networks or the locals, it's the lead story.

Almost every call I was on today, somebody mentioned it - whenther it was the Washington Mutual Failure or the Wachovia fire sale.
And these are technology calls. :doh:

The Fear machine is in full swing - I'll be surprised if they don't come out with some sort daily Homeland Security threat Level for your Bank.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

We're all feared out over here. The Bush administration has gone to that well once too often.

Wow. Now that's fucking cynical.

[War Wagon]

The bailout is $700 billion spread over some amount of time.

The market lost $1.1 trillion in value today alone. Do the math.

Sure, just numbers on paper, right?

May you be lucky enough to avoid the immediate fall-out of a lost job, but many folks won't be.

[RadioFan]

It didn't happen because so many people were so busy pointing fingers at each other, they didn't have the cajones to do what needed to be done.

The exact opposite is true.

Leaders from BOTH parties, the President, the Treasury Secretary AND the Fed Chairman were/are all lobbying HARD for this bailout measure.

Yet, the House still turned the measure down. When is the last time that has EVER happened?

Members of Congress who actually listened to the public and voted no had major balls today. They are to be RACKED, imo.

[Tom In VA]

Wags,

The right,r esponsible thing will be done in the end. Have some faith in the process. Jobs are going to go, regardless, based on some analysts and that was last week with the original package. And that was IF these bailout worked.

It's too much too fast and without any real indications that it will fix anything.

[RadioFan]

Exactly, Tom.

We're seemingly in a no-win situation, yet no one really knows what will happen if we do nothing; or if this bailout measure eventually passes and if so, if it could even work.

The political fortitute shown today in the House was nothing short of stunning.

It almost takes down my cynicism in the process a notch.

[War Wagon]

Leaders from BOTH parties, the President, the Treasury Secretary AND the Fed Chairman were/are all lobbying HARD for this bailout measure.

And why do you think that was and still is? Because it was the right thing to do to avoid a major fucking meltdown.

Members of Congress who actually listened to the public and voted no had major balls today. They are to be RACKED, imo.

Bullshit. Those who voted against are only concerned about re-election.

They caved to external pressure rather than just doing what HAS to be done.

Sonofabitch, I hope all you talking, mouthbreathing fucking idiots get a pink slip at work this week and have to stand in the unemployment line next week.

[RadioFan]

Sonofabitch, I hope all you talking, mouthbeathing fucking idiots get a pink slip at work this week and have to stand in the unemployment line next week.

Why do you hate America?

Do you know what you sound like?

Here's a hint, "You all would love us to lose, just so you can be right."

Get ahold of yourself.

[Tom In VA]

Sonofabitch, I hope all you talking, mouthbreathing fucking idiots get a pink slip at work this week and have to stand in the unemployment line next week.

That's fear talking bro. You have every right in the world to be concerned. It is a serious time. FDR said "We have nothing to fear but fear itself". Knee jerk reactions aren't the best responses to things like this and tend to backfire.

Passing this bill was no insurance against the unemployment rate going up. That MIGHT happen no matter what is done. It will suck for a lot of people. I hope you're not one of them.

[Dinsdale]

They caved to external pressure rather than just doing what HAS to be done.

Possibly the most unAmerican statement I've ever read on this board.

If I see you, I'll shoot you in the fucking face, you fascist fucking pig.

The People spoke. Their Reps did their bidding.

Pretty rare you'll ever see me RACK the House... but I will for this.

Printing/borrowing money by the government is the most onerous form of taxation ever perpetrated in the history of mankind. A 10-20% tax, not just on the money you have... but on everything you own of any monetary value, as well.


But good job, People. It warms the :heart: to see Americans standing up for America. Now, if you get on their ass to end these stupid free tarde agreements, we'd be getting somewhere.

[War Wagon]

...yet no one really knows what will happen if we do nothing;

I know exactly what will happen. It's the same thing that happens when you don't make your car payments... the repo man comes and takes it right out of your driveway.

When you quite paying your utility bills, they come shut that shit off.

That's what happens when you don't have a fucking job. Hell, it can happen even if you have a job, but can't make ends meet.

People are going to lose their jobs tomorrow over the failure to pass this bill.

[Cuda]

Seems to me you could solve this problem cheaper by just putting $500,000 in the pockets of every person in the country.

300,000,000 * 500,000 = $150,000,000,000,000

Uh... that's $150 Trillion , Tom

[War Wagon]

If I see you, I'll shoot you in the fucking face, you fascist fucking pig.

So, you want we should meet up at an I-70 or I-80 rest stop next week?

If I still have a job, that might be a problem.

[Tom In VA]

Seems to me you could solve this problem cheaper by just putting $500,000 in the pockets of every person in the country.

300,000,000 * 500,000 = $150,000,000,000,000

Uh... that's $150 Trillion , Tom

Well there was obviously an error between the back of my chair and keyboard on that one.

[War Wagon]

The People spoke. Their Reps did their bidding.

Yet you're the same person who has been railing against the "sheeple" ad nauseum... as if a loser named Dinsdale with internet access actually had a fucking clue.

In this case, you'd have a point.

Now, if you get on their ass to end these stupid free tarde agreements, we'd be getting somewhere.

You do realize that America still exports a fair amount of goods internationally, right? You do realize these exports create and sustain jobs, right?

[KC Scott]

The name of the game is protecting your principal. Don't like stocks? Park in cash. There might actually be advantages to be gained not the least of which is not losing your ass in market that probably hasn't bottomed out yet.

Hmmm... So you're advising Wags to sell here?

Hmmm....... - I will be adding that prediction to my excel -

On a serious note....

I was buying - took 50% of my position in S&P and Nasdaq 100

Is this the bottom?

Probably not, but i think it's close - at least for the Interim.

There's a pretty good # of professional traders and investment managers who think we're about to start a mult-week rally.
Maybe not tomorrow - but it's very close.

The Fear Index is off the charts and that's what was needed for Capitulation

[KC Scott]

You do realize that America still exports a fair amount of goods internationally, right? You do realize these exports create and sustain jobs, right?

Uhhh....... What are these goods of which you speak?

We export information, technology & debt, but as for goods?

Ehh - not so much

[poptart]

I know nobody wants to say it but it's a fact nonetheless-a Depression that will pale the 29 crash comparatively speaking

What bullshit.

lets see on one side we've got

Warren Buffet

vs.

mvscal

sorry dawg, I think I've got to go with the guy that's forgotten more about the US economy than you'll ever know

The filthy rich get filthy rich by shysting ignorant rubes.

If the shoe fits.


Scott's right, they'll dress the bill up somehow, the media will keep hammering away at doom and gloom, public opinion will sway toward passage of some socialist measure, and it will pass.

[War Wagon]

You do realize that America still exports a fair amount of goods internationally, right? You do realize these exports create and sustain jobs, right?

Uhhh....... What are these goods of which you speak?

Agricultural products... chemicals, fertilizer, and the like.

Construction materials. If it weren't for Mexico, Central, and South American customers this past year, we'd have shut our doors and I would indeed have been out of job. $50 mil worth of concrete forming equipment.

[RadioFan]

Scott's right, they'll dress the bill up somehow, the media will keep hammering away at doom and gloom, public opinion will sway toward passage of some socialist measure, and it will pass.

Not after today's vote.

And you're wrong, as usual, about the "media," unless, of course, you are talking about TV.

But they are mostly wrong anyway and have little to do with news.

I especially liked CNN today, when they couldn't figure out just WTF exactly happened on the House floor ...

"Oh, wait a minute, hold on, we're just now getting it from the wires ... the House has defeated the bailout."