I'm suprised

[Dinsdale]

The OSU fans haven't been all up in here (unless I missed something, which is entirely possible) fawning over their new guy.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oto65oChjc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


The Great White Oden.


Might make a splash next year, eh?

[King Crimson]

has there ever been tOSU representation on the hoops board? even when they made the championship game (though should have lost to Xavier and Oden called for the game-ended intentional foul). but, that's just like my opinion.

[buckeye_in_sc]

Yes...we have some representation...I come in and out...

[indyfrisco]

...I come in and out...

TMI.

[buckeye_in_sc]

Yeah yeah...

tOSU has some good non con games...Memphis, Miami of FLA, WVU, possibly ND...good stuff...

Mullens is going to be good...but he has to work on his strength...

[Shine]

Priorities for tO$U fans:

1- Football
2- Recruiting for football
3- Spring football
4- Discussing football
5- Discussing recruiting for football
6- Discussing spring football
7- Basketball

As I've said before and will say again, tO$U doesn't deserve Thad Matta.

[Screw_Michigan]

They deserve John Markell, though.

[buckeye_in_sc]

Priorities for IU fan

1) Reliving basketball glory years
2) Reliving RMK glory years
3) Hiring deadbeat coaches
4) Not making it past the 2nd round in years
5) Stealing recruits from ILL
6) Basketball

that about sums it up...we don't deserve Matta but we got him...IU could have went out and did something but they were too fucking busy giving Mike Davis more time...

I am not so much a basketball smack talker...so I guess I'd better get started...

[Screw_Michigan]

Priorities for IU fan

1) Delusions of grandeur they're still a top 10 program

FTFY.

[The Seer]

Priorities for IU fan

1) Reliving basketball glory years
2) Reliving RMK glory years
3) Hiring deadbeat coaches
4) Not making it past the 2nd round in years
5) Stealing recruits from ILL
6) Basketball
7) Demean Wooden's accomplishments cuz without dickhead Knight, we would be known for absolutely nothing.

that about sums it up...we don't deserve Matta but we got him...IU could have went out and did something but they were too fucking busy giving Mike Davis more time...

I am not so much a basketball smack talker...so I guess I'd better get started...

[Shine]

Priorities for IU fan

1) Reliving basketball glory years
2) Reliving RMK glory years
3) Hiring deadbeat coaches
4) Not making it past the 2nd round in years
5) Stealing recruits from ILL
6) Basketball

that about sums it up...we don't deserve Matta but we got him...IU could have went out and did something but they were too fucking busy giving Mike Davis more time...

I am not so much a basketball smack talker...so I guess I'd better get started...

Keep in mind that I'm not talking smack about tO$U fans priorities, they are what they are. Football rules all there and that's not good or bad it simply is what it is. At IU basketball rules all and again that isn't good or bad.

Where I was going with the "tO$U doesn't deserve Matta" is that IMO Matta is one of the top 3 young head coaches in all of basketball and I hate seeing him at a place the fanbase could give a fuck about what he's doing. Yes, part of that is born out of my frustration regarding your point about IU fucking around with Mike Davis. Don't dick around there and the likes of Oden and Conley don the Cream and Crimson instead of Bucknuts gear. Not to mention future guys like DeShaun Thomas.

But as someone who lives and dies football wouldn't it irk you at least a bit if a stud young coach were at IU football and getting IU to BCS level bowl games in front of a crowd of 40K while an IU intrasquad hoops scrimmage drew 15K??

[Shine]

IU is not a top 10 program. We're a top 5 program and anyone who doesn't acknowledge that FACT knows less about college hoops than I thought. The banners might have some dust on them but there are FIVE of those fuckers in the rafters. IU isn't even a top 100 team right now but the program isn't dead because of one incompetent coach and one cheating coach.

And Seer without Knight IU would still have McCracken's two titles. Only 14 SCHOOLS have won 2+ titles so that coach alone trumps damn near all other schools for glory. Wooden cheated, just accept that fact and move on. Valvano cheated but that doesn't mean his good doesn't outweigh his bad. Ditto Wooden.

Hate on haters.

[Screw_Michigan]

IU is not a top 10 program. We're a top 5 program.

Give me a fucking break. Recent performance on the hardwood proves otherwise. Save the Davis excuses, which are obviously still the first few cards in your arsenal. I have respect for the IU program, but to say they are a top 5 program NATIONALLY when they aren't even in the top 3 in the Big 11 is just the most ludicrous thing I've heard in a long time.

Say, which are you most bitter about? Not even being a top 3 Big 11 program, being Purdue's bitch for years to come, or being the #5 team in the state behind Purdue, Notre Dame, Butler, and IUPUI?

[buckeye_in_sc]

Shine...yes I do understand the frustration on your part...I am not sure why IU dicked around with Davis like that...man I can only imagine what the Hoosiers would have done with Oden, Conley, and Cook...

I have not had a chance to look much at DeShuan Thomas...but from what I hear...WOW...

[Screw_Michigan]

Indiana is not a top 5/10 team this year but they are one of the top 5 or 6 college basketball jobs/programs in the country in terms of tradition and prestige, imo.....right along with Duke, NC, Kentucky, Kansas, and UCLA.

IU isn't anywhere close near that stratosphere, Mace. As much as IU fan refuses to believe it, this isn't the 70s, 80s, or even early to mid 90s anymore. The landscape has changed dramatically. I'd put Louisville, Texas, Stanford, Memphis, Connecticut, Georgetown, and even a little stretch in Michigan State in front of IU at this point. That's 12 programs right there. Hell, why not even West Virginia? They've done much more on the national level than IU has since the National Championship appearance in 02. IU has the tools and the ability to get it done, and hiring Crean is a huge step in the right direction. And every single one of those progrmas you've listed have had their mediocre to bad years in the past 10 years or so. But fact of the matter is it's going to be at least two years before IU comes close to being "back." One-and-done doesn't cut it and neither does beating Gonzaga before flaming out.

When IU gets back to the Sweet 16, get back to me. Other than that, they have a lot of work to do to get back to that vaunted top 5/6 programs in the country.

[indyfrisco]

IU is not a top 10 program. We're a top 5 program.

Give me a fucking break. Recent performance on the hardwood proves otherwise. Save the Davis excuses, which are obviously still the first few cards in your arsenal. I have respect for the IU program, but to say they are a top 5 program NATIONALLY when they aren't even in the top 3 in the Big 11 is just the most ludicrous thing I've heard in a long time.

Say, which are you most bitter about? Not even being a top 3 Big 11 program, being Purdue's bitch for years to come, or being the #5 team in the state behind Purdue, Notre Dame, Butler, and IUPUI?

Indiana is not a top 5/10 team this year but they are one of the top 5 or 6 college basketball jobs/programs in the country in terms of tradition and prestige, imo.....right along with Duke, NC, Kentucky, Kansas, and UCLA.

Substiture Nebraska for IU and football for basketball and see how much sense that makes.

Times are chainging. IU is still a top program, but if the ship don't get righted and soon, IU will be an afterthought. Remember, Rice and Baylor were once considered big time college football programs.

[King Crimson]

Grant Teaff's Baylor teams were legit bowl teams inna day, but Rice was never a "big time" football program. I'll give you Tommy Kramer, but you'd have a lot of work to do to make that case in the last 50 years.

[Screw_Michigan]

Grant Teaff's Baylor teams were legit bowl teams inna day, but Rice was never a "big time" football program. I'll give you Tommy Kramer, but you'd have a lot of work to do to make that case in the last 50 years.

Dumb question, but why then did Rice build a 50k stadium? For the once every other year they hosted Texas?

[King Crimson]

if you had said SMU, i'd be with you.

50,000?

[Degenerate]

IU is not a top 10 program. We're a top 5 program and anyone who doesn't acknowledge that FACT knows less about college hoops than I thought.

lol

Indiana is a top 5 program if there are 8-9 programs in the top 5.

Then again, you once tried to make the case that Mike Anderson would be a better coach than Nolan Richardson, so this take looks brilliant by comparison.

[War Wagon]

Then again, you once tried to make the case that Mike Anderson would be a better coach than Nolan Richardson...

He's not?

:?

[Goober McTuber]

Then again, you once tried to make the case that Mike Anderson would be a better coach than Nolan Richardson...

He's not?

:?

Remind me how many NCAA titles Mike Davis has won.

[Shine]

Mace and Frisco making sense; SM and Degenerate making Jonsense. There is a huge difference between a team and a program. Teams can fluctuate wildly from year to year. A program takes decades to build up and just as long to tear down. What is viewed as "down" by IU standards would be looked at as very successful at most places. Frisco is right though that the window is closing for IU to maintain that top 5 level. If they don't get back to a championship level in the next 4-5 years then they WILL drop down a peg. For now though they still run with the big dogs. There's a reason a team picked by nearly everyone to finish last in their league STILL: gets ESPN coverage at Midnight Madness, is asked to be the first game in the new Lucas Oil Stadium, maxes out on national TV games, lands a top 10 national recruiting class, draws more fans for an intrasquad scrimmage than teams like tO$U do for their home opener, etc. Again, programs are built and lost over the long haul. A relative down period (though keep in mind IU was still the winningest B10 program of the 90's) doesn't instantly erase:

- the third most national titles
- the sixth most title game appearances
- the seventh most FF apperances
- the fifth most tourney appearances
- the sixth most tourney wins
- the fourth longest consecutive appearance streak
- being the only school with more than 1 coach with 2+ titles

Not to mention IU played for a title as recently as 2002. That isn't distant memory land. Louisville last played for one in 1986, Texas has never played for one, Stanford in 1942, Gtown in 1985, MSU in 2000, and WVU in 1959.

Remember Degenerate, IU beat KU heads up for 2 of their titles. And before Mario's miracle, aka the Memphis collapse, the last KU title was only 1 year more recent than IU's last title. As for the Anderson/Richardson thing, I honestly don't recall that one at all. Sounds like something I might have typed in my THC days.

[The Seer]

Wooden cheated

If by "cheated" you mean "won titles", yeah, I guess...


Just about anyone with a brain, that has been a part of college hoops, all over the U.S., old, young, everyone, concedes that Wooden was the coaches coach; that his feats will never be repeated....

Practically the only murmur of sour grapes came from a psychopath that threw chairs and smacked around his own players....and those (shine) that worshipped him and picked up the thorazine tablets he dropped....

[Shine]

Of course his feats will never be repeated. In addition to the NCAA now punishing programs that pay for players:
- the tournament field is expanded
- more than 1 team from a conference can earn a bid to the tourney
- there is a 3 point shot that can narrow the talent gap
- 7 foot players don't stay in college until they complete their eligibility
- ditto damn near any player with NBA talent
- etc, etc, etc

Calling a spade a spade or a cheat a cheat isn't "sour grapes". Defending your cheat and then calling me a kool-aid drinker is laughable at best. I guess Walton was too busy smoking dope to sip the punch.

"I hate to say anything that may hurt UCLA, but I can't be quiet when I see what the NCAA is doing (to other coaches) only because (they have) a reputation for giving a second chance to many black athletes other coaches have branded as troublemakers. The NCAA is working night and day trying to get (them), but no one from the NCAA ever questioned me during my four years at UCLA."

That quote comes from none other than Bill Walton, maybe the greatest Bruin of them all, in a 1978 book "Bill Walton: On the Road with the Portland Trail Blazers," which went on to detail how Sam Gilbert, a Los Angeles contractor the feds allege made millions laundering drug money, bought a decade worth of recruits for UCLA.

"It's hard for me to have a proper perspective on financial matters, since I've always had whatever I wanted since I enrolled at UCLA," Walton said.

That is the conundrum of UCLA and college sports as the Bruins go for their 12th NCAA title here Monday against Florida.

On one hand, UCLA has a tradition rich with success, class and glory. Good people, great stories, wonderful memories. On the other is the fact the Bruins eviscerated the rule book like no program before or after, but went largely unpunished by a NCAA that wanted no part of taking down its marquee team.

And the truth is, neither image is wrong. And neither one is right. This is college athletics, yesterday, today and probably forever, no matter how sweet the package, now matter how pretty the bow.

It is how Wooden, universally hailed for his remarkable grace and humility, has wound up seemingly beyond reproach. No matter how dirty his program, today he sells books, speeches and financial planning commercials based on his image of trust and honesty.

The question is always why would UCLA have to cheat, what with its tremendous academics, beautiful campus and proximity to talent. But it is telling that it took Wooden, arguably the greatest coach of all time, 15 seasons to win a national title. Before Gilbert got involved and the talent arrived, the Bruins weren't the best. Which ought to tell you what the competition was up to.

Maybe it is Wooden's class that has kept talk of tainted titles to a minimum. But none of this is a secret in basketball. In the late 1970s, after Wooden retired, the Los Angeles Times did an investigation of Gilbert and the NCAA was forced to sanction UCLA, but never vacated any championships. Then there is Walton's book, which couldn't be more damning.

The NCAA never bothered to investigate UCLA during Wooden's time, part of its history of selective enforcement. During the 1960s and '70s, the organization, run by old white men, was too busy going after small, upstart programs that dared to play too many African-Americans, launching inquiries into Texas Western/UTEP, Western Kentucky, Centenary and Long Beach State.

Apparently a team capturing 10 titles in 12 years, putting together undefeated season after undefeated season, recruiting high school All-Americans from all over the country to sit on the bench, yet never having them transfer or declare hardship wasn't enough for it to dawn on anyone at the NCAA that, gee, maybe they're cheating?

But that is your NCAA.

And that is your college athletics, where corner cutting doesn't make a guy a bad person; it makes him a successful coach.

In Wooden's defense, some, including Walton, have argued that he wasn't aware of Gilbert's largesse, or at most just looked the other way. But other coaches in Southern California at the time, most notably Jerry Tarkanian, laugh at that, claiming Gilbert proudly boasted of his payouts. Tark claims Gilbert once offered to pay one of his Long Beach State stars, Robert Smith, just because he liked the way he played.

"You couldn't be more obvious than Sam," said Tarkanian. "He just laughed about it. Everyone in America knew."

Moreover, in a striking 2004 interview with Basketball Times, Wooden described confronting players Sidney Wicks and Curtis Rowe in 1969 about expensive new clothes he suspected Gilbert had purchased. "Did you get this from Sam Gilbert," he asked. "I don't like this."

"People want to say this is tainted," Wooden told BT, before folding his arms in a rare bit of anger. "I don't care. I don't believe that."

The truth of college athletics is that winning, let alone at the championship level, without rule breaking is nearly impossible. Fans and apologetic media don't want to admit this about the icons of the games, but nothing about this has changed for decades. And it probably never will.

There are no angels in this business, no white hats and black hats as the NCAA would like people to believe with its public relations campaign of a rule book. Everything is a shade of grey. Everything is situational ethics. Everything is pick your poison.

Even the great UCLA legacy. Even the great John Wooden.

[Screw_Michigan]

Link to the source of any of that crap? Never mind, save it. Nobody gives a fuck.

Why don't you email a few of Wooden's disciples and ask him what a cheating fucking bastard he was? I suggest you start with Western Michigan head coach Steve Hawkins: steve.hawkins@wmich.edu. Feel free to post his response, if you even email him at all. I'm sure he'll politely disagree with your assessment.

Just fucking face it: Your program's glory days are long in the rearview mirror and IU basically irrelevant on the national level. None of your huffing and puffing will change that. Nobody with half a brain wants to play at Indiana, nevertheless live in Indiana.

And while I'm at it:

There's a reason a team picked by nearly everyone to finish last in their league STILL: gets ESPN coverage at Midnight Madness

Because a full house is better than an empty house, that's it.

is asked to be the first game in the new Lucas Oil Stadium

In-state relevance only, nobody else outside of the land of 45% unemployment gives a flying fuck.

maxes out on national TV games

Games on the Big Ten Network, ESPNU and regional coverage on CBS don't count as "national TV games," but nice try.

lands a top 10 national recruiting class

Nobody cares about recruiting rankings. If you get geared up over recruiting, you are a certified, shit-eating tard.

draws more fans for an intrasquad scrimmage than teams like tO$U do for their home opener, etc.

Because there's nothing better for anyone to do in Indiana.

Again, programs are built and lost over the long haul.

You're right. Indiana is a shell of its former self. You're the next St. John's. Get used to it.

[SunCoastSooner]

Fucking around with Mike Davis? UAB would stomp a mudhole in Indiana this season...

[The Seer]

Link to the source of any of that crap?

To forward anonymous links and assume they have any credibility is a reach. Trace it enough and you'd probably find contributions from those jealous of the successes...like back to where we started....

Are there any Div 1 programs being sanctioned currently?

[Shine]

You can keep taking the Wooden/ostrich approach seer and duck your head in the sand and pretend shit doesn't exist, but that won't change the fact that it does.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball ... &type=lgns

This article has a few spot on points about the whole Wooden/cheating dynamic.
http://www.lvrj.com/sports/16412456.html

Wooden either understood everything the mysterious benefactor was doing or looked the other way, which can be argued is a far more serious offense.

This isn't meant to belittle all the good Wooden did on the court and beyond its bleachers. Hardly. His teachings and elegance are unmatched on countless levels, and his words have been used to educate athletes of all ages and skill levels on how best to approach sports and life.

To question his integrity would be irresponsible given all he has offered the game and the many thousands of lives outside it. But to pen his UCLA legacy as one of absolute purity would be just as careless.

[The Seer]

Maybe you can channel that envy into energy and launch another full scale investigation....

[Shine]

Thanks, I've been looking everywhere for that receipt.

Sin,

Papa Sam