Why the hell not? All time best CF programs...

Van · Post by **Van** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:49 pm

This one's for M Club, hot on the heels of our Michigan-ND discussion.

List your Top 10 all time CF programs. Use whatever criteria you value. If you want to stick strictly to numbers (wins, winning %, national titles, etc) then have at it.

If you want to go by more subjective criteria, simply describe it.

I'm going with a mix of sheer numbers and some subjective reasoning...

#1-Notre Dame
#2-Michigan
#3-Texas
#4-USC
#5-Alabama
#6-Oklahoma
#7-Nebraska
#8-Ohio St
#9-Penn St
#10-Miami

Reasonings...

-While Michigan holds a very slight (and statistically meaningless) edge in sheer numbers over ND (and everyone else, as well) I just don't see Michigan as being quite as dominant or quite as important as ND. ND has more hardware, they played in and won more big games and they had more to do with the national growth of the sport.

I'd be fine though with flip flopping those two and having Michigan be #1. I'd also be fine with dropping Michigan down below USC, and even all the way below Nebraska.

I'm ambivalent about Michigan. They have career numbers but so did Don Sutton. I'd still place Sandy Koufax and Bob Gibson above Don Sutton. Michigan far too often was The Opponent. They were good enough to make it to the big game but they lost too many of those big games.

Notre Dame is known for mostly winning those big games. Notre Dame had a magic about them that never seemed to be there with the more workmanlike Michigan teams.

Anyway, that's my reasoning there.

-I have to put Texas over OU and OU over Nebraska. Texas has just about every edge on both teams.

-Totally at a loss as to where to place Bama. No way I place them above USC so since I don't place USC above ND or Texas I can't place Bama over ND or Texas either. I do feel some need though to place them a hair above OU and Nebraska. It's the hardware and the mystique. It's their greater importance to the sport, I suppose.

I'd also like to include LSU in here somewhere but really where would they go? Despite some good career numbers they're really only a recent addition to the truly elite. Meanwhile Miami has already won five fairly legitimate national titles. I have to place Miami first among the Florida teams and I have to place Miami above LSU, Georgia, Auburn and Tennessee even despite Miami's lack of long term success.

Five titles already in the modern era, that's a real bitch. Florida's coming though, and so is LSU.

King Crimson · Post by **King Crimson** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:51 pm

Van wrote:
-I have to put Texas over OU and OU over Nebraska. Texas has just about every edge on both teams.

except for national championships re: OU. i have to say it....that's just the way it is.

Van · Post by **Van** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:35 pm

King Crimson wrote:
Van wrote:
-I have to put Texas over OU and OU over Nebraska. Texas has just about every edge on both teams.
except for national championships re: OU. i have to say it....that's just the way it is.

Yeah, and by some lights Princeton has 24 national championships, Yale has 20 and USC, Michigan and ND all have 11.

If you want to put a whole lot of stock in such nonsense, feel free. I don't.

Van · Post by **Van** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:41 pm

Sudden Sam wrote:I would have to question only that Miami inclusion. Granted they've racked up fast since Howie won that first title, but they were (like FSU) absolutely a joke prior to the 80s.

Granted.

Okay, who would you place above them, considering they've won five legitimate titles (as legitimate as they get in CF, anyway), as opposed to the party favor national championships handed out at season's end in the old days to everybody's favorite local teams.

Would you put LSU in their place? LSU won one phony title back in the 50s, back when they awarded national titles before the bowl games were even played. They won two others, both of which were shaky at best.

Miami has five already and they were fairly legit. That's more than most of the other teams on my list have managed.

Curious to see who you'd place above them...

Besides, let's see your list. That's the whole point of this thread.

King Crimson · Post by **King Crimson** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:02 pm

Van wrote:
King Crimson wrote:
Van wrote:
-I have to put Texas over OU and OU over Nebraska. Texas has just about every edge on both teams.
except for national championships re: OU. i have to say it....that's just the way it is.
Yeah, and by some lights Princeton has 24 national championships, Yale has 20 and USC, Michigan and ND all have 11.

If you want to put a whole lot of stock in such nonsense, feel free. I don't.

easy, cool breeze....you do spend an entire other thread arguing with LSU/SEC fan about "such nonsense".

AND, you do say national championships above.

if you want to play the count MNC's in different ways game to relativize a numerical stat you introduce as a criteria, then go ahead. I guess i was wrong to assume that the "Go Big Blue" journal from 1947 or Billy Joe's "Roll Tide" website weren't going to be criteria for an NC on this board. OU and Bama, everybody can play that game. i think you are kind of overreacting here.

Van · Post by **Van** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:25 pm

Then have at it, BTH. Let's see it. I'll stand back a bit to avoid the splatter.

SunCoastSooner · Post by **SunCoastSooner** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:46 pm

Van wrote:
King Crimson wrote:
Van wrote:
-I have to put Texas over OU and OU over Nebraska. Texas has just about every edge on both teams.
except for national championships re: OU. i have to say it....that's just the way it is.
Yeah, and by some lights Princeton has 24 national championships, Yale has 20 and USC, Michigan and ND all have 11.

If you want to put a whole lot of stock in such nonsense, feel free. I don't.

Okay... what about conference titles both in the Big 12 and all time? Oklahoma has more.

Heisman award winners... Oklahoma.

Consensus All Americans... Oklahoma.

National Award winners... Oklahoma.

First Round NFL draft picks... Oklahoma.

NFL drafted players... Oklahoma.

The longest winning streak in college football... Oklahoma.

WTF are you smoking Van???

SunCoastSooner · Post by **SunCoastSooner** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:49 pm

Van wrote:Then have at it, BTH. Let's see it. I'll stand back a bit to avoid the splatter.

I'm not BtH but...

1. Notre Dame
2. Oklahoma
3. Alabama
4. USC
5. Michigan
6. Ohio State
7. Nebraska
8. Texas
9. Penn State
10... could go to any number of programs.

Vito Corleone · Post by **Vito Corleone** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:55 pm

SunCoastSooner wrote:
Okay... what about conference titles both in the Big 12 and all time? Oklahoma has more.

Heisman award winners... Oklahoma.

Consensus All Americans... Oklahoma.

National Award winners... Oklahoma.

First Round NFL draft picks... Oklahoma.

NFL drafted players... Oklahoma.

The longest winning streak in college football... Oklahoma.

WTF are you smoking Van???

And yet Texas owns the head to head against blOwU in such a way as to make you wonder if any of that means anything at all.

I really have a hard time taking Oklahoma's success seriously since just about every championship has been preceded or followed by probation.

BTW Texas has passed Notre Dame in all time wins. Only two national power have a greater winning percentage over Texas, they are USC and Notre Dame. Head to head, Texas has owned everyone else.

SunCoastSooner · Post by **SunCoastSooner** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:06 am

Vito Corleone wrote:
And yet Texas owns the head to head against blOwU in such a way as to make you wonder if any of that means anything at all.

We've been through this... congrats on your days in leather helmets over OU. Since the 1940s the series is basically heads up even.

Van · Post by **Van** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:15 am

SCS, I based it on Texas' sizeable head to head lead against OU plus their higher number of wins and their higher winning percentage.

I'll also fess up here to something...

My gut always said OU was better. It just seemed that way to me growing up, plus I was aware of the Bud Wilkinson era and the records OU set during that time.

Texas just seemed to me to be more of a big fish in a small pond, a team that built their numbers on the backs of a bunch of SWC opponents. Texas rarely seemed to travel.

OU just seemed to be more of a "national level" program to me so I always thought more highly of them.

In fact I even used to debate this with a Texas buddy I used to wortk with. That guy, Stranded Texan, he even posted here for a little while, a couple years ago.

Well, that guy used to show me reams and reams of stats showing how Texas owned both OU and Nebraska. It was pretty compelling stuff. I allowed my opinion to be swayed.

Then, today, I looked up the stats and I found out that Texas holds a pretty strong advantage over OU head to head, plus they have the edge in total wins and winning %.

Like I said to King Crimson I'm not putting much stock in national titles, at least not the ones that were compiled before the advent of waiting to play the bowl games before the titles were awarded. This somewhat negated the OU advantage there.

So, jumbling it all together and having to make a choice, I picked Texas.

I'm not married to that pick though, same as I'm not married to my Michigan pick. I'm definitely keeping an open mind here. You present a very compelling case and like I said, my subjective gut feeling told me that OU should be the pick there...mainly because of the Switzer and Stoops eras, which were the ones I actually saw with my own two eyes. Since I've really been following these teams it sure has seemed from the outside looking in that OU has had the upper hand there.

I tried to distance myself though from that sort of anecdotal thinking. I tried to take the bigger picture view, taking into account more than just the little I've seen myself.

I might be wrong with that pick. Somehow I'm guessing though that Texas fan will say I was right.

I'd be interested in seeing what everyone else thinks there. Guys like SS, 'Spray, Dins, Lefty, Seer, Terry, Killian, PSU, Mgo, M Club and 88...If you don't root for either team which team do you see as being the better all time team there, Texas or OU...or even Nebraska?

King Crimson · Post by **King Crimson** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:18 am

SunCoastSooner wrote:
Vito Corleone wrote:
And yet Texas owns the head to head against blOwU in such a way as to make you wonder if any of that means anything at all.
We've been through this... congrats on your days in leather helmets over OU. Since the 1940s the series is basically heads up even.

well, Van said stuff that happened in days of Yore, like Princeton and Yale's NC's, were to be considered as important criteria.....

Van · Post by **Van** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:28 am

KC, everyone's free to base their picks on whatever criteria they want. I'm not telling anybody how to base their picks. I'm just saying I personally don't put a whole lotta stock into national champonships awarded in Ye Olden Days or Heismans awarded to When In Doubt Just Give It To ND's Best Player. I also don't care too much about small differences in total wins, considering how many of them were in fact achieved during the leather helmet days.

If other people want to though, by all means, knock yourselves out.

Hell, the more I think about this the more I wanna drop both ND and Michigan down the list...

:twisted:

King Crimson · Post by **King Crimson** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:35 am

I know, I'm just saying that by the conventional AP/post WWII era the standardized NC list has (ND with eight) OU with 7 and UT with 4. Nebraska with 5.

edit: on the by and by, OU is also the only school to have 4 different coaches win 100 games.

Van · Post by **Van** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:42 am

Which year was it that they finally decided to hold off once and for all from awarding national titles until after the bowl games were played?

I don't recall the exact year but I wanna say it was sometime in the mid to late '60's.

I wouldn't seriously count any national titles which were awarded previous to that change.

Left Seater · Post by **Left Seater** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:59 am

Since you called me on it I would have to say that OU and Texas are pretty damn even. I pull for both teams and want to see both do well.

As someone has already pointed out they are pretty damn even over the last 60 years. OU has more titles and Heismans, Texas has more wins and a better winning percentage. Frankly, both are in my top 5 programs of all time.

And since someone else has mentioned all time wins, let's just understand that Michigan has played 14 more seasons of football than Texas and OU. ND has played about 5 more seasons than them. So sure props to Michigan for their all time wins, but when viewed in context Texas, OU and Nebraska are just as impressive.

Finally, while I haven't yet posted a list, if we are discussing ALL TIME programs, I think you would have to look at Army and Princeton. Sure the game has changed over time, but you can't punish them for that. They were dominate in their time.

Van · Post by **Van** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:07 am

Lefty, yeah, I'll go ahead and dismiss Army and Princeton. Unlike the other teams on the list they weren't able to carry their success into the modern era.

College football was very provincial then. Hell, the Ivy League was dominant. It was barely even football for some of that era.

I have a difficult time counting anything that occured before blacks were allowed into the game. I sure as hell don't care about the era when the forward pass had yet to be invented.

I do want to see your list though, including where you place OU, Texas and Nebraska.

King Crimson · Post by **King Crimson** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:09 am

Van wrote:Which year was it that they finally decided to hold off once and for all from awarding national titles until after the bowl games were played?

I don't recall the exact year but I wanna say it was sometime in the mid to late '60's.

.

AP did it first in 65, then didn't do it for two years...and then brought it back in 1968. near as i can tell.

Vito Corleone · Post by **Vito Corleone** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:30 am

Here is the thing about judging the best all-time programs. Some weight has to be given to rogue programs that cheat their asses off to get those wins.

Example 1992 Washington Huskies won a split MNC now that was a damn fine team but to get to where they were they cheated their asses off and when it comes right down to it all they really did was buy that championship.

Now I have maintained this same thing with Oklahoma, yes when looking on the merits of what they have accomplished on the field, they should be ahead of Texas, hell ESPN did this same thing and ranked the Sooners #1. However, if we factor out years on probation along with years where cheating lead directly to success on the field then you have a lot less impressive Oklahoma program. The same probably holds true for the Canes and a few other programs. Hell USC with thier whole Reggie Bush shit would probably be factored out. One last note, I am not referring to issues regarding citizenship, if we were discounting on the field success because of kids breaking the law then the only team with a modern championship would be BYU. I just referring to the breaking of NCAA rules.

Van one last note. Your view of SWC is a bit off. Now I agree that the SWC of the 80-90s was Texas being a big fish in a little pond, but that wasn't the case from the 30's to the 70's. SMU, TCU, and Arkansas were all big time programs back then. Even a$m had its moments back in the 30's.

Laxplayer · Post by **Laxplayer** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:56 am

My list
1 Cal
2 Cal
3 Cal
4 Cal
5 Cal
6 Cal
7 Cal
8 Cal
9 Cal
10 Cal

They got screwed out of EVERY national championship because back in the day they had to travel by train and they got train lag, then they got jet lag, then they got bus lag.

Sin
The Tool
The Truth

Van · Post by **Van** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:02 am

Vito, sorry, I have a hard enough time being impressed by what Texas managed in such a small pond. You're never going to convince me that the lesser fish of that really small, incestuous SWC pond were much to worry about. In fact were it not for UT's succcess head to head against OU I'd have a very difficult time giving their pre Big XII record much credence at all...

Van · Post by **Van** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:36 am

BTH, no problem, like I said in my original post I'm mighty ambivalent about Bama's place. Bama and Michigan, primarily, though the more I think about it the more I want to question ND's place as well since so much of their success took place back before national titles and Heismans had any real meaning. (Meaning, even less than they have now.)

I could easily be talked out of Bama's spot as that was largely a "gut" call and I'm also obviously debating the OU-Texas thing. Not having the numbers in front of me, why do I also suspect that given the right framework of years Nebraska might also belong right in the middle of that OU-Texas debate...

Blueblood · Post by **Blueblood** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:47 am

The "Wonder Teams"....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California ... r_Teams.22

The 1920s "Wonder Teams"

The 1920s saw the first golden age of California football, as the Golden Bears went 50 straight games without a defeat from 1920 to 1925, with a record of 46 wins and 4 ties. As of 2006, this is the 3rd longest unbeaten (not to be confused with winning) streak in NCAA history. The 1920-1924 squads were so dominant that they were nicknamed "The Wonder Teams."

Yep, they won 4 straight National Championships against the great Knute Rockne teams with "The Four Horsemen".... and Red Grange and Illinois.

My grandpa went to school at Illinois during this time... and I still have a pillow he kept from his days there with the date on it.

Cool shit !!!

The "Greatest team in College Football History" ???

The University of San Francisco

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m ... _n16546097

Some have called it the best college football team ever. Nine of its players were drafted, five played in the National Football League's Pro Bowl and three are enshired in the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

USF's sports information director at the time, Pete Rozelle, would later go on to become commissioner of the NFL, earning his own induction into the Hall of Fame.

Bluebood

Vito Corleone · Post by **Vito Corleone** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:52 am

Van wrote:Vito, sorry, I have a hard enough time being impressed by what Texas managed in such a small pond. You're never going to convince me that the lesser fish of that really small, incestuous SWC pond were much to worry about. In fact were it not for UT's succcess head to head against OU I'd have a very difficult time giving their pre Big XII record much credence at all...

It can easily be argued that the SWC was the premier football conference in the 60's Arkansas and Texas were always battling for the top spot not just in the SWC but in the nation. In the 50's TCU, SMU and A$M carried the conference. And even Rice had a nice little run back in the 40's and early 50's.

SoCalTrjn · Post by **SoCalTrjn** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 6:09 am

1. Notre Dame
2. USC
3. Oklahoma
4. Alabama
5. Ohio State
6. Michigan
7. Nebraska
8. Texas
9. Miami
10.

M Club · Post by **M Club** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 6:37 am

Van wrote: -While Michigan holds a very slight (and statistically meaningless) edge in sheer numbers over ND (and everyone else, as well) I just don't see Michigan as being quite as dominant or quite as important as ND. ND has more hardware, they played in and won more big games and they had more to do with the national growth of the sport.

I'd be fine though with flip flopping those two and having Michigan be #1. I'd also be fine with dropping Michigan down below USC, and even all the way below Nebraska.

I'm ambivalent about Michigan. They have career numbers but so did Don Sutton. I'd still place Sandy Koufax and Bob Gibson above Don Sutton. Michigan far too often was The Opponent. They were good enough to make it to the big game but they lost too many of those big games.

Notre Dame is known for mostly winning those big games. Notre Dame had a magic about them that never seemed to be there with the more workmanlike Michigan teams.

re: mich vs. notre dame, your reasoning makes a lot of sense, but something to also consider is how often both programs have lost. without even considering last season, michigan is in its worst stretch of football ever, and that's by stringing together a few 8-4, 7-5 seasons. notre dame's put out more than its fair share of 9-2, 10-1, 11-0 seasons, but i'm pretty sure they've countered with many more losing seasons than michigan's had. it'd be interesting to find out, though i do remember being in the nd press box for a game and marveling at all the framed magazine covers from every decade stating NOTRE DAME IS BACK! back from where?

wins: people like to point out michigan's win total is because they've been playing longer [in this thread, lefty], but they also have the best winning percentage, not to mention half those seasons consisted of but one or two games. the next step is to make fun of the schools they played at the turn of the century, but again, that's not relevant since a discrepancy in program quality hadn't existed yet.

finally: michigan taught notre dame how to play football. notre dame stadium is a replica of michigan stadium. also, we beat them more than they beat us. if we're going to daydream about proper scheduling then mich/notre dame should be the first game of every cf season.

Van · Post by **Van** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 7:39 am

You bring up a good point about those earliest seasons of Michigan football...

See, according to Wiki, Michigan has played football thirteen more seasons than Texas. Figuring Michigan's winning % of .740 I was figuring that in round numbers that should equate to something like an average of 9 wins per season.

Okay, 13 x 9 = 117

So, Michigan should have something like 117 more wins than Texas, right?

So how come they've only played 22 more games all time than Texas, and how come they only have 40 more wins?

That made no sense at all to me, and then I remembered that a typical CF season used to be about 9 games, then 10, then 11 and finally it's now 12.

Still, doing the numbers over again even at only 8 games per season that still should've represented 104 more games played and 78 more wins than Texas. It still didn't make any sense to me that they could only have 22 more games played and only 40 more wins.

Now here you are with the answer. I never knew those prehistoric seasons might only consist of a game or two...

Van · Post by **Van** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 8:46 am

I'm perfectly content to throw away results from a game that doesn't exist any longer. The game in which Princeton and Yale won titles bears no resemblance to the game that existed following the advent of the forward pass, protective equipment, teams outside of the Ivy League and black athletes.

Intellectually, I don't see those two things as even being the same game.

More importantly, Yale and Princeton were not able to carry any of their success beyond the stone age of the game. Everybody else on the list managed to play the game at a high level both in its nascent, barely recognizable form and then all the way into the modern era.

Terry in Crapchester · Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:05 pm

Van wrote:More importantly, Yale and Princeton were not able to carry any of their success beyond the stone age of the game. Everybody else on the list managed to play the game at a high level both in its nascent, barely recognizable form and then all the way into the modern era.

Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner!

My list, fwiw, based more on gut instinct than anything else . . .

1. Notre Dame
2. Oklahoma
3. Michigan
4. Alabama
5. Texas
6. USC
7. Nebraska
8. Ohio State
9. Penn State
10. Miami

Interestingly, everyone who's weighed in on this so far agrees on 8 of the 10 teams, and all but shutyomouth agree on 9 of the 10. The most significant disagreements are with respect to the ranking of the programs, rather than with the programs that belong on this list.

I'm with Van on the #10 spot -- Miami's run of national championships -- including four in a nine-year period (although under three coaches) -- outweighs the longer run of less spectacular success of a number of other programs, including Florida, Georgia, LSU, etc.

King Crimson · Post by **King Crimson** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:06 pm

Papa Willie wrote: So, based upon these 3 most important stats ALL TIME (for you dumbfucks who can't figure that out), here are the final results:

1. Michigan
2. Notre Dame
3. Yale
4. Texas/Auburn
5. Ohio State
6. Oklahoma
7. Alabama
8. Princeton
9. Nebraska
10. USC

I'm sure some of you are narrow-minded enough to where you'll cry, but football was actually a game a long, long fucking time before you were born. You just can't throw that away.

FIFY, :wink:

King Crimson · Post by **King Crimson** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:15 pm

if we were going to do a top 10 (or 9) that leaves out OU, it would go like this:

1. Notre Dame
2. Alabama
3. USC
4. Texas
5. Michigan
6. Nebraska
7. Ohio State
8. I'll give Yale and Princeton a toofer
9. Penn State

Left Seater · Post by **Left Seater** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:16 pm

Believe the Heupel wrote:
Picture of Saban's car to follow. Just happened to walk by the athletic offices and there was a 2008 S550 parked in the "Head Coaches Parking" spot. With that kind of jack, I'd think Saban would drive a Maybach or something...

BtH,

Many of the top programs have a car program for the coaching staff and AD. I know at Texas and RICE the football coaches are sponsored by the Caddy Dealers of Texas. As such they all drive their choice of Caddies. Pull into the RICE football offices and you will see Escalade after Escalade after Escalade. I imagine it is the same at Texas, OU, Bama, etc.

Van wrote:Lefty, yeah, I'll go ahead and dismiss Army and Princeton. Unlike the other teams on the list they weren't able to carry their success into the modern era.

College football was very provincial then. Hell, the Ivy League was dominant. It was barely even football for some of that era.

I have a difficult time counting anything that occured before blacks were allowed into the game. I sure as hell don't care about the era when the forward pass had yet to be invented.

One can easily argue that Princeton, Yale, etc have maintained college football tradition. They keep the student in student athlete. They don't play post season games and their titles now are conference titles. Further they are no longer in D1-A so how do we handle that. I don't think we can just wipe away the first years for some teams but not others.

But I can understand your points about time before black players were allowed, and before the forward pass. That is all well and good, but then we can't discuss an all-time list. If you don't give a rat's ass about the first 90 years then how can we possibly discuss all-time. That is fine, but we then need to decide if the list should be since 1965 or all time.

Terry in Crapchester · Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:23 pm

M Club wrote:re: mich vs. notre dame, your reasoning makes a lot of sense, but something to also consider is how often both programs have lost. without even considering last season, michigan is in its worst stretch of football ever, and that's by stringing together a few 8-4, 7-5 seasons. notre dame's put out more than its fair share of 9-2, 10-1, 11-0 seasons, but i'm pretty sure they've countered with many more losing seasons than michigan's had. it'd be interesting to find out,

If by "losing seasons," you mean sub-.500 seasons, then yes, without looking it up, I would tend to agree that ND probably has had more of those than Michigan. Really, really, awful seasons, OTOH? Tough to tell. ND's 3-9 record in '07 was their worst since at least '63. ND won at least 5 games every season from '64 through '06, a mark exceeded only by Nebraska. But there were far more of those 5-win seasons in that stretch than I would like to see.

SunCoastSooner · Post by **SunCoastSooner** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:42 pm

Left Seater wrote:Finally, while I haven't yet posted a list, if we are discussing ALL TIME programs, I think you would have to look at Army and Princeton. Sure the game has changed over time, but you can't punish them for that. They were dominate in their time.

I was seriously considering Army on my list lefty but their play on the field over the last 2 decades sort of killed the thought to me :(

Left Seater · Post by **Left Seater** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:44 pm

Agreed, but that is why I put ALL-TIME in caps like I did. If we are discussing modern age then they are not close to the discussion. If we are truely discussing all time, then they are in the discussion.

SEC Ballsucking Homer · Thu Feb 12, 2009 4:43 pm

Sudden Sam wrote:Then, of course you have LSU, Georgia, Tennessee, Auburn, Florida, Ole Miss, MSU, Vandy, Arkansas, Kentucky and South Carolina who follow immediately.

Shit.

You beat me to it.

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 4:47 pm

Left Seater wrote:Pull into the RICE football offices and you will see Escalade after Escalade after Escalade. I imagine it is the same at Texas, OU, Bama, etc.

No, just in the Student-Athlete parking lot.

Van · Post by **Van** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:41 pm

Lefty, like I said in the first post: Use whatever criteria you want.

If you want to weight the stone age period equally with the game it became and remains to this day, feel free.

Myself, I'm perfectly willing to dump Princeton and Yale from the list. My criteria requires that a team be more than a stone age wonder. I'm plenty comfortable with that criteria.

See, if we allow stone age wonders who never did anything else once the game became football than you know who else has to merit serious consideration?

Cal.

Sir, fuck you, sir!

SoCalTrjn · Post by **SoCalTrjn** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:53 pm

Most Bowl Wins.

1. USC 31 wins in 47 Bowls
2. Alabama 31 wins in 56 Bowls
3. Penn State 26 wins
4. Georgia 25 wins in 44 Bowls
5. Tennessee 25 wins in 47 Bowls
6. Texas 25 wins in 48 Bowls
7. Oklahoma 24 wins
8. Nebraska 23 wins
9. Georgia Tech 22 wins
10. Florida State 21 wins in 37 Bowls

Best Bowl Game Winning Percentage (minimum of 20 bowls)

1. USC 0.65957
2. Penn State 0.65854
3. Boston College 0.65000
4. Mississippi 0.62500
5. Georgia 0.60227
6. Florida State 0.59459
6. Georgia Tech 0.59459
8. Auburn 0.58824
9. Oklahoma 0.58333
10. Alabama 0.58036

Most BCS Bowl Wins

1. USC 6
2. LSU 4 in 4 games
3. Florida 4 in 5 games
4 Ohio State 4 in 7 games
5. Texas 5 in 3 games
6. Miami 3 in 4 games
7. West Virginia 2 in 2 games
7. Wisconsin 2 in 2 games
7. Utah 2 in 2 games
10. Georgia 2 in 3 games

Most recognized National Titles

1. Princeton 24
2. Yale 19
3. Notre Dame 12
4. Alabama 11
5. USC 10
5. Harvard 10
7. Michigan 7
7. Oklahoma 7
9. Minnesota 6
10. Pittsburgh 6

Most All Americans

1. Notre Dame 178
2. Ohio State 175
3. Michigan 150
4. USC 148
5. Oklahoma 144
6. Nebraska 92
6. Alabama 92

Most NFL Hall of Famers

1. USC 11
2. Notre Dame 10
3. Michigan 8
4. Alabama 7
5. Oregon 6
5. Illinois 6
5. Ohios State 6
5. Minnesota 6
5. Syracuse 6
10. Penn State 5
10. SMU 5

Most Major Conference Championships

1. Nebraska 46
2. Michigan 42
3. Oklahoma 41
4. USC 38
5. Ohio State 35
6. Texas 30
7. Alabama 25
8. UCLA 18
9.Tennessee 16
10. Georgia 14

Most Heisman Trophy Winners

1. USC 7
1. Ohio State 7
1. Notre Dame 7
4. Oklahoma 5
5. Army 3
5. Florida 3
5. Michigan 3
5. Nebraska 3
9. Auburn 2
9. Florida State 2
9. Georgia 2
9. Miami 2
9. Navy 2
9. Texas 2
9. Wisconsin 2
9. Yale 2

USC is in the top 5 in every stat, ranking them below the top 5 overall is a joke

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Thu Feb 12, 2009 6:38 pm

This was tough, and like Van, I'm not married to most of these picks.

I don't think there is a clear cut #1, and 1-4 is the hardest. I based mine on a mix of average key stats (bowl appearances, bowl wins, bowl win %, all time wins, all time win %, and mncs) and plain old, simple instinct such as "who jumps to mind when I think of the best?"

1 Michigan
2 Alabama
3 USC
4 Oklahoma
5 Notre Dame
6 Texas
7 Nebraska
8 Ohio St
9 Penn St
10 Tennessee