Obama to nationalize farms?

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Moby Dick
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Obama to nationalize farms?

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coming soon.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-875

To establish the Food Safety Administration within the Department of Health and Human Services to protect the public health by preventing food-borne illness, ensuring the safety of food, improving research on contaminants leading to food-borne illness, and improving security of food from intentional contamination, and for other purposes.

^sounds great right? :meds:

looks like it's GG "little guy".

what the fuck are we letting happen to our country?



http://www.organicconsumers.org/article ... e_5291.cfm

If you've visited your local feed dealer or veterinarian recently, or read any of the dozens of livestock or poultry magazines targeted at small farmers, you probably already know what "NAIS" stands for. The National Animal Identification System is arguably the most hated federal program in rural America. The plan, released in draft form in April 2005 by the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA), proposed sweeping changes in the way animals are managed on small farms and homesteads. It called for registration of livestock "premises" and individual animals in national databases, and for tracking animal movements.

The draft called for all places where even a single livestock animal is held (farm, back yard, veterinarian office, fairground and slaughterhouse) to be given a unique seven-digit number and registered in a national database, along with its Global Positioning System coordinates and the name, phone number and address of the owner. It further proposed that every livestock animal (including cows, horses, llamas, pigs, sheep, goats, ducks, geese, turkeys and chickens) be individually registered and tagged with a 15-digit number - preferably via a Radio Frequency Identification Device (RFID), often called a chip. An exception would be made for animals raised as a group for their entire life cycle and never separated (such as birds or hogs in confinement settings), which could be assigned a group or lot number. Last, the draft proposed that the movements of any animal leaving the home place would have to be reported to the national database within 48 hours.

The 2005 draft plan stated that the program would be mandatory, phased in over several years. In November 2006, however, the USDA proclaimed that the program would be "voluntary at the federal level." This reversal came after an unprecedented outpouring of opposition from farmers and livestock owners across the country. Many opponents think the change is a tactical move in favor of more subtle methods to make everyone comply.

Horse owners were upset at the thought of having to report every trail ride. Backyard poultry raisers wondered where in a baby chick is the best place to implant an ID chip. Small farmers worried about how they could afford the chips, monitors, software and reporting systems necessary to comply.

ANIMAL ID VS. DISEASES

The USDA's stated goal of their animal ID system is "to be able to identify all animals and premises that have had contact with a foreign or domestic animal disease of concern within 48 hours after discovery." Yet the program is silent on how that information would be used to prevent or control disease outbreaks. In previous animal health programs that have required animal identification - such as brucellosis vaccination for cattle or culling for scrapie eradication among sheep - the program was targeted to a specific species of animal and a particular disease. The animal identification was needed and specifically tailored to indicate which cattle had been vaccinated or which sheep had been scrapie-free and for how long.

The animal ID program, however, is a one-size-fits-all program targeting many species of animals. It's difficult to see how it can be useful against any specific disease. Among poultry, avian influenza is the most obvious disease threat. Yet it spreads so rapidly in confinement chicken facilities that an entire building - hundreds of thousands of birds - can be infected quickly, and it requires a much shorter response time than 48 hours. In the case of a disease with a long incubation period, such as bovine spongiform encephalopathy (aka mad cow disease), animal tracking may identify cows that shared the same location years ago. But control of the disease requires culling affected animals, and the only way to determine if an animal is affected is a lab test of brain tissue after death. It would be far easier and cheaper to simply test every cow upon slaughter, before releasing the beef into the food supply.

Mandatory livestock ID would do nothing to help control food-borne diseases. Cases of E. coli contamination, for instance, are associated with poor sanitation at processing plants, after the animal is dead and its identification is moot.

WHO'S BEHIND ANIMAL ID?

If the program does not serve the goals of disease prevention or control, then why is the USDA proposing it? To answer that, critics have looked to where the program originated, and whom it benefits.

According to the draft plan, in 2002 the National Institute of Animal Agriculture (NIAA) initiated meetings that led to the development of the ID plan. The NIAA, it turns out, is a private organization whose membership reads like a who's who of agribusiness: Cargill, Monsanto, the National Livestock Producers Association, the National Pork Producers Council, the National Renderers Association, and veterinary medicine companies such as Pfizer and Schering Plough.

Manufacturers of animal ID and tracking systems, such as Cattle-Traq and Digital Angel, also are members. Their interests in such a program are pretty clear. No one knows exactly how many animals would be affected by mandatory animal ID, but starting with the nation's 63 million hogs, 97 million cows, 300 million laying hens and 9 billion chickens for meat, the market is vast.

Other members of NIAA are meat producers, and their interest in the ID plan is harder to discern - until you understand their dependence on factory farming and exports.

Factory farming. These producers are not farmers in any normal sense. They are large corporations that raise, kill and process animals on a massive scale. The term "factory farm" has sometimes been applied to their operations, but more descriptive is the USDA's jargon, "concentrated animal feeding operation," or CAFO. These are huge facilities where animals are penned or caged by the thousands. Poultry andhogs are raised entirely indoors. Beef cattle are confined in feedlots. Feed grown elsewhere is brought in and distributed to the animals mechanically; manure is scraped or pumped out and stored in large lagoons or discharged into waterways. Systems are automatic and computer controlled; animals are identified by individual or by lot; everything is monitored. Thus to factory farm owners, the animal ID requirements are not an additional burden - these costs are already a part of doing business.

Meat exporting. These producers sell much of their product into export markets. Before the 2003 case of mad cow in the United States, Japan imported more than 400,000 tons of U.S. beef annually. This was high-value beef, too, priced 33 percent per pound higher than beef exported to other nations. After the mad cow discovery, Japan shut down imports of U.S. beef for two years. Since 2003, because of this disease concern, U.S. beef producers have lost more than $5 billion in sales to the Japanese. The big corporations that dominate U.S. meat production have a vital interest in the perception in export markets that our meat is disease-free. A program such as the animal ID plan makes the United States appear serious about preventing disease, whatever the reality.

WHAT DO SMALL FARMERS THINK?

So, if the federal animal ID program is designed in a way that imposes few new costs on factory farms and bolsters their export market by giving the perception of safety to foreign meat buyers, how does the program sit with small farmers and backyard animal raisers? Very badly, as it turns out, for several reasons.

It's too expensive. Whereas factory farms can take advantage of group or lot registration, and already are monitoring and tracking animals, the federal program would impose serious new costs for most small livestock operations. The USDA's draft plan avoided estimating the costs to producers of implementing the system. But some back-of-the-envelope calculations, based largely on existing devices for cattle identification, give us an idea of the potential costs. ID chips sell for between $1.50 and $3 each, based on quantity. A simple machine to read the tags could cost as little as $100 to $200, while more sophisticated ones with computers and software attached could range from $500 to $2,000. Reporting animal movements would probably be done on the Internet, and would involve costs for Internet access, subscription fees to access the database, and time to do the work. One study suggests these might collectively cost $900 to $1,000 per year. So for a small farm with a herd of 50 cattle, the cost might be $1,500.

One difficulty with these costs for small farmers is that so much of the expense is fixed. Whether you have one cow or 20, you will still need a reader, Internet access and database subscription. Even if you do the monitoring and reporting yourself, this can easily cost $500. The situation is even worse for someone raising smaller, less valuable livestock. Amortized over a few goats or a flock of laying hens, $500 can easily exceed the value of the animals.

It's too intrusive. Some small farmers object to the intrusiveness of the ID program, feeling they should be free to raise animals much as their ancestors did, unimpeded by government. Others feel it infringes on their constitutional or property rights. Still others have religious beliefs that prevent their using electricity, computers, telephones or other aspects of modern technology that would be needed to implement the program.

It endangers outdoor production. Another concern, especially among organic and sustainable growers, is that by imposing costly new burdens on the small operator, the USDA program favors large confinement operations and threatens outdoor and pasture-based production. Under organic regulations, animals must be raised with access to the outdoors. Many customers also prefer the quality of free-range meat and like to support farmers who use that practice. But in the mistaken belief that avian flu is transmitted by migratory birds (it is well established now that it travels with commercial shipments of birds and manure along rail and truck routes), some localities have now clamped down on outdoor poultry raising. It has been prohibited in Quebec, Germany, Nigeria, Slovenia and Hong Kong. The Massachusetts Commissioner of Agriculture, writing in support of the program, said he envisioned a time when outdoor raising of poultry would not be tolerated.

WHY CONSUMERS SHOULD OPPOSE MANDATORY ANIMAL ID

Some analysts think large confinement animal production works to the detriment of environmental and human health.

It's bad for the environment. In 1997, U.S. livestock and poultry produced 1.1 billion tons of manure - six times the amount generated by the human population. This manure could be a valuable fertilizer if produced in small, manageable quantities on small farms throughout the country. But when produced in concentrated amounts in factory farms, it cannot be safely applied to local fields and results in contamination of waterways and groundwater. Ammonia, hydrogen sulfide and other gases given off by decomposing manure cause respiratory problems in animals and humans, and can travel for miles.

It's bad for medical care. Because of the crowded and stressful conditions in which confined animals are raised, they are routinely fed antibiotics to promote growth and prevent disease. In the United States, 70 percent of all antibiotics are used as feed additives for livestock. This practice, however, leads to the development of antibiotic resistant bacteria. When these bacteria spread to humans, the antibiotics are ineffective in medical treatment. Both the American Medical Association and the World Health Organization have called for an end to routine feeding of antibiotics.

It promotes virulent diseases. Large-scale confinement poultry operations have recently been associated with outbreaks of the highly pathogenic H5N1 strain of avian flu. Bird flu has been endemic to poultry for centuries, but only in the past 10 years has the H5 strain mutated into this particular variant that is highly fatal to humans. The ability of a virus to mutate into such a deadly strain is greatly enhanced by the conditions in factory farms.

In a backyard flock of birds, two things tend to prevent such a mutation. First, genetic diversity among the birds increases the chance that some birds will have an immune response that will eliminate the virus. Second, the more pathogenic a virus, the less likely it is to replicate. To reproduce, a virus must take over the cellular machinery of its host, insert its own DNA instructions, and make the hijacked cells churn out copies of the virus and expel them to infect other hosts via such responses as coughing, sneezing and diarrhea. A virus that kills its host cannot trigger these responses and cannot easily spread. Thus the two tendencies - of hosts to develop resistance and of diseases to sicken but not kill - serve to moderate disease attacks in a natural setting.

But giant poultry houses are not natural settings. There, the birds are usually all of one specific variety, selected for rapid growth and maximum production at the expense of genetic diversity. Also, the artificial environment allows a virus to kill one bird and still spread to another. Packing in birds at densities of two per square foot means the virus must travel only a small distance. Infected manure remains on the cement floor rather than being degraded by soil organisms. There is no sunlight to disinfect, and only poor ventilation to refresh the air. Also, the stress of these conditions weakens disease resistance in the birds.

As the Council for Agricultural Science and Technology said in a 2005 report tracing the transition of livestock production from family farms to industrial confinement: "A major impact of modern intensive production systems is that they allow the rapid selection and amplification of pathogens." The industry-funded group's report concludes: "Stated simply, because of the livestock revolution, global risks of disease are increasing."

IS ANIMAL ID MANDATORY?

Even though the USDA now is calling their animal ID system "voluntary at the federal level," it is funding state and tribal governments to participate in the program, including states that have mandatory registration laws. Wisconsin currently requires registration of all places where any livestock are kept. Indiana mandates registration as well, but excludes equines, camelids (llamas, etc.) and poultry. Michigan requires all cattle to have an ID chip.

In some states, the requirement to participate in some aspect of the ID program is more subtle: One has to sign up to qualify for licenses or to comply with disease control programs. The USDA has encouraged this backdoor approach to enforcement, predicting that "the success of the premises registration component would be achieved through the participation of producers in long-standing disease management programs and compliance with interstate movement regulations." Tennessee, for example, currently requires a farm to complete premises registration to qualify for various farm assistance programs.
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Re: Obama to nationalize farms?

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He's also trying to nationalize the banks and inflate gas prices back to $4/gallon.
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Re: Obama to nationalize farms?

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Collective agriculture ?? That worked well in the old cCCP and is doing fine in Zimbabwe too !
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Re: Obama to nationalize farms?

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http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.h ... cts/C/Corn



mmmm yea, i want corn that'll grow it's own POISON.

what's funny is..the company that made this shit has the patent on it...what happens when corn from THEIR field cross polinates with corn from the field next door or down the road? Double pesticides ftw?
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Re: Obama to nationalize farms?

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There are no more "ma and pa" farms left.

Have you people been in a coma for the last 30 years?

Unless of course your pa's name is Archer Daniels and your ma's maiden name is Monsanto...
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Re: Obama to nationalize farms?

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I'm informing the Obama administration they need to collect all the shit that posts here as well as the shit that gets posted here and start using it as an energy source as well as fertilizer. Millions! Millions Saved!
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Re: Obama to nationalize farms?

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GOSD wrote:I'm informing the Obama administration they need to collect all the shit that posts here as well as the shit that gets posted here and start using it as an energy source as well as fertilizer. Millions! Millions Saved!

Is that one of those "spread it across my lawn..." deals?

How timely.
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Re: Obama to nationalize farms?

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Martyred wrote:There are no more "ma and pa" farms left.

Have you people been in a coma for the last 30 years?

Unless of course your pa's name is Archer Daniels and your ma's maiden name is Monsanto...

Exactly. Welcome to the past 80 years, where the government has been heavily involved in agriculture. Nice to see some of you guys waking up.
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Re: Obama to nationalize farms?

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So we'll all be eating government cheese.
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Re: Obama to nationalize farms?

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mvscal wrote:
Martyred wrote:There are no more "ma and pa" farms left.
You're a moron.
You're an imbecile.

At least in the Imperial Valley east of San Diego it's mostly if not all corporate farming. And that switch took place decades ago.
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Re: Obama to nationalize farms?

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Martyred wrote:There are no more "ma and pa" farms left.
Holy shit! What am I supposed to tell my family about the thousands of acres of corn, soy and wheat we farm across 3 states? The farms ran away?
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Re: Obama to nationalize farms?

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IndySharecropper wrote:
Martyred wrote:There are no more "ma and pa" farms left.
Holy shit! What am I supposed to tell my family about the thousands of acres of corn, soy and wheat we farm across 3 states? The farms ran away?

Anecdotal evidence? Well, now I'm convinced. Boy, do I ever have egg on my face...

:meds:
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Re: Obama to nationalize farms?

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Martyred wrote:Anecdotal evidence? Well, now I'm convinced. Boy, do I ever have egg on my face...
Funny you should say that. We don't farm the corn, soy and wheat for sale to the public. We use it to feed the chickens who lay the eggs which we further process and sell. Also use it to feed the turkeys of which we sell 200 million lbs of breast meat to a major deli meat company each year.

I could give a fuck if you're convinced or not. Go on pretending "ma and pa" farms don't exist. That's how ours began and that's what it still is. Just on a larger scale with growth.
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Re: Obama to nationalize farms?

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My uncle has been farming since he was old enough to hold a pitchfork. He inherited the farm from my grandfather, who inherited it from his father and so on back to just before the Civil War when my great-great-great grandfather started the farm. Furthermore, there are thousands of family farms here in WNY producing apples, corn, milk, beef, grapes and just about any other type of produce you could ever possibly grow in this climate. Just take a look at how many farmer's markets are still viable institutions in our area.

http://inforochester.com/marketsfarmer.htm
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Re: Obama to nationalize farms?

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Martyred wrote:There are no more "ma and pa" farms left.

Have you people been in a coma for the last 30 years?

Do those of you on the left even think before you open your yapper? Remember that little thing you guys are so horny about, global warning? You keep telling us to buy from our local farms cause the products are fresher, less pesticides, and most importantly the transportation to the market doesn't put as much carbon into the air. Local farms are green you keep saying.


So what is it? Are their local farms to buy from? Or not?
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Re: Obama to nationalize farms?

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Thanks for missing the greater point, all of you.

That banks and agri-business has been strangling family farmers since Nixon (at least) is completely lost on you, in the face of your heart-warming tales of jumping in bales of hay out the barn loft an going on "horsey rides".

My uncle farmed his whole adult life in Southern Ontario and I have a small idea about who you buy seed from, how you're allowed to use that seed, who you're allowed to sell to, whether the bank will float you loan if you don't purchase from their "approved" distributors, how you're de facto encouraged to "scorch" your own fields so you can sit on your ass and pull in a subsidy rather than plant...


Shut the fuck up.
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Re: Obama to nationalize farms?

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Diego in Seattle wrote:At least in the Imperial Valley east of San Diego it's mostly if not all corporate farming. And that switch took place decades ago.
You're a fuckin' jerkoff.
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Re: Obama to nationalize farms?

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Hmmm. I used to sell Medicare and disability insurance. I worked the I-99 and I-5 corridor, all throughout California's Central Valley. For those of you who aren't aware, California's Central Valley is one of the largest and most productive farming regions on planet earth.

Anyway, as might be expected when working farming regions, I spent the majority of my days dealing with farmers; most of whom were "Mom & Pop" owner/operators of their own farms.

I guess someone forgot to tell them.

In Marty's defense however I will say this: Those Mom & Pop farmers loathed the government. They hated the government for everything under the sun, ranging from price fixing, forcing people out, forcing people to sit on produce rather than sell it, broken promises...you name it. Man, those farmers often came off as a buncha pitchfork wielding, anti government anarchists.

You sure as hell didn't want to walk onto their property while wearing a dress shirt and tie. If you looked even a little like a government employee they wanted nothing to do with you.
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Re: Obama to nationalize farms?

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Sudden Sam wrote:
Tom In VA wrote:So we'll all be eating government cheese.
That's some good shit. Haven't tasted any in years.
Ah, good old government cheese. Somebody should find the recipe for that stuff and market it. If there is one thing our government can do, it is making cheese.
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Re: Obama to nationalize farms?

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Somebody should photoshop a picture of Obongo on the end of that pitchfork.
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Re: Obama to nationalize farms?

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the government is simply doing the same thing they are with your guns....forcing you to register your animals so they can slowly take them away from you.....

"they'll get my chickens when they pry them from my cold dead hands"

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Re: Obama to nationalize farms?

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if you're gonna do ftfy smack, do it right.
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Re: Obama to nationalize farms?

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Re: Obama to nationalize farms?

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Martyred wrote:Thanks for missing the greater point, all of you.
There are no more ma and pa farms left.
Anecdotal evidence? Well, now I'm convinced.
My uncle farmed his whole adult life....
Oh... well shit, that obviously makes you an expert on family farming. My uncle farmed his whole life, as does his son on 160 acres in NW Kansas. Corn, soybeans, cattle, hogs, chickens. They're also both licensed electricians on the side to make ends meet. I guess that makes me qualified to wire the shed you live in
Boy, do I ever have egg on my face.
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Re: Obama to nationalize farms?

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Mikey wrote:Plenty of small farms here.

http://sdfarmbureau.org/BuyLocal/Farmers-Markets.php
You wouldn't have said that 1 year ago. But amazingly, Obama came and sprinkled magical pixie dust on America and everything is a Norman Rockwell painting again.

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Re: Obama to nationalize farms?

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War Wagon wrote:
Go fix me an omelet and we'll call it even.

There's a commie inside you that is dying to be set free.

Too much WPA coursing through the bloodstream I imagine.
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Re: Obama to nationalize farms?

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Martyred wrote: Too much WPA coursing through the bloodstream I imagine.
None.

Folks on my moms side were German immigrants in the 1880's who settled outside Seneca, Kansas. They scratched their living from the dirt and had no use for Roosevelt.
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Re: Obama to nationalize farms?

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Well it is Marty. People say "Hello" to one another on the street and their is really an air of sophistication. Why just the other day, I saw some folks wearing the "Obama" shirt, the one where he looks like "Che", slashing the tires of some H2 that had a McCain/Pailin sticker on it. The job was really well done, clean, smooth and swift. And as the vehicle lowered the smallest of the troop put a card for a towing company on the windshield.

Very polite, very sophisticated, PhD's all of them. And to top that off, they "stimulated" the economy. The H2 owner not only had to pay the towing company but also had to buy 4 new tires. I don't need to tell you, the strong arm version of "trickle down" works best.

Oh, excuse me, it's family time by the fire as we listen to "Dreams from My Father" on CD for the tenth time and throw GI Joes in the fireplace.

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Re: Obama to nationalize farms?

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Moby Dick wrote:
...Meat exporting. These producers sell much of their product into export markets. Before the 2003 case of mad cow in the United States, Japan imported more than 400,000 tons of U.S. beef annually. This was high-value beef, too, priced 33 percent per pound higher than beef exported to other nations. After the mad cow discovery, Japan shut down imports of U.S. beef for two years. Since 2003, because of this disease concern, U.S. beef producers have lost more than $5 billion in sales to the Japanese. The big corporations that dominate U.S. meat production have a vital interest in the perception in export markets that our meat is disease-free. A program such as the animal ID plan makes the United States appear serious about preventing disease, whatever the reality...
This is what its all about. Lost $$$'s. The buyer dictates the terms so as to have the advantage on price. If the buyer says your meat, fruit etc is "dirty" then its up to the seller to prove it is "clean". You cant prove your product line(beef,chickens, fruit) is clean when people can grow/raise it in there backyard with no government or industry oversite. Im not saying its right to regulate small producers out of business, but it is up to the seller to prove his product is safe for cunsumption.

As far as "factory" (I hate that term) farms go, factory farms are small farms that have evolved and gotten bigger over the years as a way to stay competitive and gain market advantage over there competitors. IT IS NO DIFFERENT THEN THE EVOLUTION OF WALMART, home depot, best buy or any other business that has been around forever. By being bigger and more efficient it cuts the cost to the consumer which is good right? Dont you all want cheap food?
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Trampis
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Re: Obama to nationalize farms?

Post by Trampis »

Martyred wrote:
My uncle farmed his whole adult life in Southern Ontario and I have a small idea about who you buy seed from, how you're allowed to use that seed, who you're allowed to sell to, whether the bank will float you loan if you don't purchase from their "approved" distributors, how you're de facto encouraged to "scorch" your own fields so you can sit on your ass and pull in a subsidy rather than plant...

Are these Canada specific banking restrictions? I know that when Monsanto etc. developes a seed,(corn ,wheat whatever) they hold a patent on that seed I believe for a certain number of years, Thus you cant hold back some of the harvest to "make " your own seed for the next year. If a farmer doesnt like this he can make the choice to grow a different seed that he can make his own seed from. Somehow you have to protect the company that spent the dollars to develope the seed.

Ive never heard of a bank telling the farmer he has to sell to an "approved distributor". Again, the farmer can make the choice to borrow from another lending institution.

Sometimes it makes a lot more sense to idle the land for subsidy money then keep beating your head against the wall to grow wheat for a 50 cent/bushel loss year after year.
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BSmack
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Re: Obama to nationalize farms?

Post by BSmack »

Martyred wrote:My uncle farmed his whole adult life in Southern Ontario and I have a small idea about who you buy seed from, how you're allowed to use that seed, who you're allowed to sell to, whether the bank will float you loan if you don't purchase from their "approved" distributors, how you're de facto encouraged to "scorch" your own fields so you can sit on your ass and pull in a subsidy rather than plant...
That must have been before the motor laws?
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indyfrisco
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Re: Obama to nationalize farms?

Post by indyfrisco »

Martyred wrote:My uncle farmed his whole adult life in Southern Ontario
Hopefully those whose genes you share can at least get crops to grow.
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