darkness

[Felix]

Assuming you exist, for a moment, I'll give you one.

you know, this whole "do you exist" makes you look like a bigger buffoon than you already are, but if you want to go down that path, then by all means, continue on

The nation of Israel.

The nation of Israel was formally established via a United Nations resolution calling for the establishment of a Jewish State on the 29th November, 1947.

So you're saying the United Nations is god?

Most think of the UN as satan, but never the less, god had nothing to do with it.

[battery chucka' one]

Assuming you exist, for a moment, I'll give you one.

you know, this whole "do you exist" makes you look like a bigger buffoon than you already are, but if you want to go down that path, then by all means, continue on

The nation of Israel.

The nation of Israel was formally established via a United Nations resolution calling for the establishment of a Jewish State on the 29th November, 1947.

So you're saying the United Nations is god?

Most think of the UN as satan, but never the less, god had nothing to do with it.

1) beyond these words, supposedly written by you, we have no evidence that you exist. Hence, I shall believe that you don't.

2) supposing you do exist (aka, suspending disbelief for a moment), surely you know that Israel declared independence on May 14, 1948. And, assuming you know this (again, this is assuming that you might exist since knowledge is a tool of those who occupy space and those who in fact don't exist can't possibly possess it), you surely know what happened to the underarmed state the next day (as well as the rather improbably outcome of the situation). And still, you don't see God. How does this differentiate you from the Pharisees?

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

2) supposing you do exist (aka, suspending disbelief for a moment), surely you know that Israel declared independence on May 14, 1948. And, assuming you know this (again, this is assuming that you might exist since knowledge is a tool of those who occupy space and those who in fact don't exist can't possibly possess it), you surely know what happened to the underarmed state the next day (as well as the rather improbably outcome of the situation). And still, you don't see God. How does this differentiate you from the Pharisees?

If there is a God, why did he allow 6 million Jews to die in the Holocaust?

[Felix]

If there is a God, why did he allow 6 million Jews to die in the Holocaust?

those sorts of miracles are reserved for Christians...sorry you had to find out this way

[Python]

Because people die, that means there is no God?

Wow.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

Because people die, that means there is no God?

Wow.

bco just finished explaining how the state of Israel was proof of God's beneficence to his "chosen people".

He created a modern day nation state, but couldn't stop Auschwitz? No wonder so many Jews are secularists.

[Felix]

Because people die, that means there is no God?

Wow.

when they die in mass at the hands of a crazed lunatic-that means one of two things.....either god doesn't exist, or he condones this type of slaughter.....

so which is it

(mass genocide in the old testament at "his" hands notwithstanding)

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

.....either god doesn't exist, or he condones this type of slaughter.....

Since according to the NT, it wasn't "their time", you can throw that one out the window and conclude that God doesn't exist.

[Felix]

There is more proof that Christ existed than Alexander the Great.

Guess again, you brainless fucktard.

oh fuck, I missed that

but considering the fact that bco is a sig machine and capable of submitting a jaw droppingly imbecilic comment at any time, I guess they're easy to overlook

[battery chucka' one]

There is more proof that Christ existed than Alexander the Great.

Guess again, you brainless fucktard.

Actually, perhaps you should study a little bit on origins of historical facts. Then, perhaps you would understand that all we know of Alexander's life in surviving text are by the following writers:

Arrian (2nd century AD)
Rufus (1st century AD)
Plutarch (1st century AD)
Diodorus Siculus (1st century BC)

None were his contemporaries. All their sources were several generations old. All lived several centuries after Alexander. They don't stand up to the Gospels when it comes to dependability.

However, you will now call me a name and tell me that I'm wrong. Sad.

[Felix]

Actually, perhaps you should study a little bit on origins of historical facts.

if you knew anything about mvscal, you'd realize just how moronic that statement is

[Python]

"when they die in mass at the hands of a crazed lunatic-that means one of two things.....either god doesn't exist, or he condones this type of slaughter"

Or three, we live in a world full of evil people. So because bad things happen, God doesn't exist.

Got it.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

"when they die in mass at the hands of a crazed lunatic-that means one of two things.....either god doesn't exist, or he condones this type of slaughter"

Or three, we live in a world full of evil people. So because bad things happen, God doesn't exist.

Got it.

Again, my comments are in regards to bco's assertion that the current state of Israel is proof of God.

God allowed the Holocaust to happen and facilitated the creation of Israel...




He sure works in mysterious ways.

[Python]

Whether or not he "allowed" the Holocaust to happen, and whether or not he facilitated the creation of Israel is way too complex for me to even begin to understand. In fact, I'm glad I don't have to understand.

[Felix]

So because bad things happen, God doesn't exist.

during biblical times, god seemingly rushed to the aid of various people's, destroying entire cultures of people (Assyrians), killing all the first borns in Eygpt, destroyed the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah and killed all the people (with the exception of the "good" ones), killed over 50,000 for the heinous crime of looking at the ark of the covenant, killed 70,000 with a pestilence because David sinned, drowned the pharoah and all of his men with the parting of the Red Sea trick, and killed everyone on the earth with a big flood because he didn't like the way things were going....but apparently saving 5-6,000,000+ of his "chosen" people from abominable death wasn't worth his time?!?!?!?

yeah, makes perfect sense to me

Whether or not he "allowed" the Holocaust to happen, and whether or not he facilitated the creation of Israel is way too complex for me to even begin to understand. In fact, I'm glad I don't have to understand.

yeah, that "reasoning and logic" crap is pretty rough stuff....I can see why you're a follower

[poptart]

but apparently saving 5-6,000,000+ of his "chosen" people from abominable death wasn't worth his time?!?!?!?

The re-establishment of Israel is fulfillment of prophecy.

God gives His Word and He fulfills it ... always.

The suffering of the Jews, as a people, over the years is a result of them being outside of God's Covenant.
Failure on one's part to acknowledge Christ leaves one in darkness, suffering and ultimate failure.

In the case of the Jews, the suffering and turmoil has been even more profound because of the great "advantages" God provided them by virtue of being the chosen people.

But rather than hold to God's Covenant, they have instead held to this chosen people ideology.

Holding to something other than Christ leaves one as satan's playtoy.

Good luck with that.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

but apparently saving 5-6,000,000+ of his "chosen" people from abominable death wasn't worth his time?!?!?!?

The re-establishment of Israel is fulfillment of prophecy.

God gives His Word and He fulfills it ... always.

The suffering of the Jews, as a people, over the years is a result of them being outside of God's Covenant.
Failure on one's part to acknowledge Christ leaves one in darkness, suffering and ultimate failure.

In the case of the Jews, the suffering and turmoil has been even more profound because of the great "advantages" God provided them by virtue of being the chosen people.

But rather than hold to God's Covenant, they have instead held to this chosen people ideology.

Holding to something other than Christ leaves one as satan's playtoy.

Good luck with that.

Jews burned to a crisp because they didn't accept Jesus as Messiah...

Gotcha. :wink:

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

I've baited a lot of you fuckers for years to give that one up. Thank you...finally...

Aaaaaaannnnd...SCENE! That's a wrap...tear down the sets...return costumes to wardrobe...

[battery chucka' one]

Then, perhaps you would understand that all we know of Alexander's life in surviving text are by the following writers:

Arrian (2nd century AD)
Rufus (1st century AD)
Plutarch (1st century AD)
Diodorus Siculus (1st century BC)

Even if you were correct (and you are not), that would be more evidence than there is for Jesus.

Ignorant, simpleminded dumbfuck that you are, you have glossed right over the abundant physical evidence in the form of one of the largest empires in history of mankind, numerous cities founded by Alexander and, of course, we actually know what Alexander looks like as he sat for the sculptor, Lysippos.



All smack and kidding aside, you are a seriously and profoundly stupid person. Ignorant doesn't even begin to cover it.

Prove they were founded by him. Prove that he sat for this sculpture. Prove that he was the one who led his empire. Either provide proof or remain the ignoramus that you are. What contemporaries of his wrote of his travails? Which generals wrote something down that remains? Did Alexander write anything to document his experiences? Anything at all? If his empire was so great, surely somebody would have written something....one thing...down that survives. Without proof, your argument is thin.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

Prove they were founded by him. Prove that he sat for this sculpture. Prove that he was the one who led his empire. Either provide proof or remain the ignoramus that you are.

[poptart]

I've baited a lot of you fuckers for years to give that one up. Thank you...finally...

I didn't think what I said was any secret.

[Felix]

The re-establishment of Israel is fulfillment of prophecy.

no, it was a UN resolution.....

God gives His Word and He fulfills it ... always.

Failure on one's part to acknowledge Christ leaves one in darkness, suffering and ultimate failure.

do you know anything about the Jewish faith and what their opinion of Jesus is exactly? Of course, they don't believe that Jesus was the son of god, but THEY do "acknowledge" him in a hey howdy sort of way, so by your definition, even though god saw fit to give the jews their own holy land, he'll have no choice but to cast them into the fiery depths of hell for not accepting christ as their savior.....

damn dude, you're a funny guy

[battery chucka' one]

The re-establishment of Israel is fulfillment of prophecy.

no, it was a UN resolution.....

God gives His Word and He fulfills it ... always.

Failure on one's part to acknowledge Christ leaves one in darkness, suffering and ultimate failure.

do you know anything about the Jewish faith and what their opinion of Jesus is exactly? Of course, they don't believe that Jesus was the son of god, but THEY do "acknowledge" him in a hey howdy sort of way, so by your definition, even though god saw fit to give the jews their own holy land, he'll have no choice but to cast them into the fiery depths of hell for not accepting christ as their savior.....

damn dude, you're a funny guy

You really need to read the book of Daniel. It's in the Old Testament. Jews will back it up. Make special note of a covenant that mentions 'weeks'. Perhaps that will enlighten you a bit.

The Jewish people (not all, but most) REJECTED Christ as the foretold Messiah as outlined throughout the Old Testament. By doing so, they REJECTED GOD incarnate. However, God is not yet done with them. He still has unfinished business and such with them. They are still HIS people. The city of Jerusalem is still HIS city.

Here's putting it bluntly for ya'.

NO NATION/CIVILIZATION IS DISPERSED FOR 2000 YEARS AND THEN JUST COMES BACK WITHOUT GOD BEING INVOLVED. IT DOESN'T HAPPEN. CULTURES ARE ABSORBED. THEY DO NOT SURVIVE UNDER SUCH CONDITIONS.

NO NEW NATION MADE UP OF PRACTICALLY UNARMED SETTLERS IS ATTACKED ON DAY NUMBER TWO OF THEIR EXISTENCE BY EIGHT VERY WELL ARMED ARAB COUNTRIES AND SURVIVE WITHOUT GOD BEING INVOLVED. IT DOESN'T HAPPEN. IF YOU THINK IT DOES, YOU ARE DUMBER THAN MVSCAL.

NO MOVEMENT AS HUGE AS CHRISTIANITY EXPLODES AS IT HAS IN THE NAME OF A GOD WHO CAME TO THE EARTH, MINISTERED, WAS EXECUTED, AND ROSE FROM THE DEAD UNLESS THAT LEADER WAS ACTUALLY SEEN BY THOSE WHO FOLLOWED HIM AND EVENTUALLY DIED IN HORRIBLE WAYS IN HIS NAME. THIS TOO REQUIRES GOD. ON ITS OWN, IT DOESN'T HAPPEN. CHECK OUT THE BOOK OF ACTS. IT MENTIONS CULTS THAT ROSE AND DIED OFF BECAUSE OF THE UNTRUTHS THEY WERE TEACHING.

CHRISTIANITY SURVIVES.

CHRIST IS LORD.

GOD PREVAILS.

You got it yet? Care to respond to my other three reasons as to why God exists or shall we remain on this one some more?

[Felix]

You really need to read the book of Daniel. It's in the Old Testament.

wait, I thought we weren't paying attention to the old testament anymore, but if you're talking about Daniel, then your also talking about the book where a disembodied hand writes on the wall, Nebuchadnezzar built a gold statue that would have contained no less than 270 cubic yards of gold (which is more than existed in the entire world at the time), and Nebuchadnezzar eats grass, his hair becomes like eagle feathers and his nails like bird claws, you mean that book of Daniel?

You got it yet?

sure I got it....the bible is filled with a plethora of fairy tales about all sorts of miraculous occurances and it takes an extraordinarily moronic individual to accept any of these physics defying miracles as the truth....the fact that you so adamantly defend this tripe speaks volumes about you

[battery chucka' one]

Prove they were founded by him. Prove that he sat for this sculpture. Prove that he was the one who led his empire. Either provide proof or remain the ignoramus that you are.

Yeah, I'm sure the Persian Empire must have been destroyed by some other guy named Alexander. Nevermind. Forget I even brought it up. Heck, I even forgot to PROVE that the Persian Empire ever existed.

So, are you saying that evidence left behind of one's actions is proof that they existed in the first place?

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

So, are you saying that evidence left behind of one's actions is proof that they existed in the first place?

If you are trying to trap mv with that, you truly are the ignoramus.

[Felix]

So, are you saying that evidence left behind of one's actions is proof that they existed in the first place?

If you are trying to trap mv with that, you truly are the ignoramus.

it's no trap, it's just another futile attempt to say that the bible proves jesus existed....but of course, it's the ONLY book that says he existed and as I've pointed out time and time again, a book that proves itself proves nothing....let me save bco the time by just putting it like this

"the biblical writings indicate that Jesus existed and given that Jesus existed, it proves the bible is accurate"

circular "logic" at it's finest

[battery chucka' one]

So, are you saying that evidence left behind of one's actions is proof that they existed in the first place?

Jesus didn't leave any physical evidence behind. Our knowledge of his existence (which I don't dispute) is strictly literary. Alexander, on the other hand, has left abundant physical traces of his march through history. There is no comparison between the two.

Got any Christian churches in your town?

Am glad you don't entertain the ignorance that Felix is peddling with the notion that Christ didn't exist.

Btw, I was pointing out, in my Alexander argument, that ANYTHING'S existence can be questioned. I think that Alexander existed. I truly don't question that. I do think that the literary evidence for Christ is more valid than that of Alexander. Those who wrote of Christ did it right after He ascended. They didn't wait two-five hundred years and then look back on and write about a historical figure.

[battery chucka' one]

But you forget, the mentions of Jesus were by people who had witnessed the incidents first hand (though Mark didn't know Him as well as others). I don't think that the accounts should be discounted just because they are in the Bible. Each one IS an accurate historical document.

You want to point out that the church was started by Christ's disciples, then fine. I can go with that. That's like saying that Stephen was the 'first' Christian martyr. We can say that. However, do remember that said disciples (Apostles) were under His expressed direction to spread his word to the world. From that came the churches. Surely we can agree that there are no disciples/apostles without a tangible teacher.

The five mentions of Alexander were by people who had neither seen his actions nor heard his words. They were 'stories' passed down through generations. The supposed first hand accounts of Alexander were lost. Therefore, I have to give first hand witnesses more credence over hearsayers.

I was merely illustrating with the whole thing that Felix's claim that Jesus might not have existed is silly.

p.s. I have no problems with accepting a 'healthy' skepticism of my beliefs as long as others don't mind me having a 'healthy' skepticism of theirs.

[Felix]

Am glad you don't entertain the ignorance that Felix is peddling with the notion that Christ didn't exist.

where exactly did I say that jesus didn't exist?

what I said is that christians use the circular reasoning that the existence of the bible somehow proves that jesus was the son of god, and this in turn proves the bible to be true.....if you can't see the fallacy of that sort of reasoning then there's simply no hope

but don't feel alone....every christian I've ever discussed the bible with uses the same reasoning, which is no reasoning at all....I think Python summed it up best

In fact, I'm glad I don't have to understand.

it's the typical mantra of christians when somebody like me points out the inherent flaws in your "inerent" book...but if it makes you feel better about yourself then have at it....just don't try to foist this type of bullshit on my children under the guise of it being "science" and you'll have no problems with me....

[shepster]

And that is usually where the fuss starts.
when one attemps to force? a belief on another.
Jesus did say somewhere in the word for those children,who are all of us, to come to him of their own free will.
Then sometimes I wonder if i might even understand the question to ask.

[War Wagon]

just don't try to foist this type of bullshit on my children

Your children?

In 8 years, to my recollection, you've never mentioned having children, or even a wife for that matter.

However, you have been adament about supporting gay rights.

hmmm...

[Felix]

Your children?

In 8 years, to my recollection, you've never mentioned having children, or even a wife for that matter.

well unlike you, I don't feel the need to regale a bunch of fucking strangers about my personal life...after posting for as long as you have I'd of thought you'd caught on to the idea that
NOBODY FUCKING CARES

but hey, if relating stories about your lesbian daughter is what you want to do, then that's what you should do

However, you have been adament about supporting gay rights.

yeah, I'm adamantly opposed and I feel it's really fucking retarded to ridicule people for something that

1. has no effect on me whatsoever, and
2. is none of my business

you should think about joining up with Fred Phelps and the Westboro crowd....something tells me you'd get along swimmingly

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkjBEE5ugaQ

but seriously, if gashing on gay people makes you feel better about yourself, have at it

[Tom In VA]

Felix wrote:
just don't try to foist this type of bullshit on my children

Yeah right. People are tying your child down and innundating him with references to scripture. Fucking please.

Dude, here's a tissue. I'm sorry Torquemada has visited your house and tried to corrupt your innocent children with "fairy tales" of a God.

I'll write a letter on your behalf, maybe start a victims fund, to get him to stop. Meanwhile, I'll send you some other "fairy tale" material that should be more productive for your children.

1. Disney
2. NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL
3. American Idol, all seasons on DVD.

That should keep them occupied and remove the brainwashing "foisted" upon your children by the evil people calling themselves "The Faithful".



YES WE CAN

[Felix]

Felix wrote:
just don't try to foist this type of bullshit on my children

Yeah right. People are tying your child down and innundating him with references to scripture. Fucking please.

that's exactly what they're trying to do Tom and they disguise it in this "Intelligent Design Science" which is the laughingly veiled "science" of "god did it....ever heard of Kitzmiller vs. Dover Area School District? Of course, the whole Intelligent Design argument was kicked to the curb in a resounding defeat, but that hasn't stopped them the The Kansas Board of Education tried to push "Intelligent Design" through....and the Texas School Board is currently trying the same thing...if that isn't inundating then I'd like to know what you think it is

Dude, here's a tissue. I'm sorry Torquemada has visited your house and tried to corrupt your innocent children with "fairy tales" of a God.

I'll write a letter on your behalf, maybe start a victims fund, to get him to stop. Meanwhile, I'll send you some other "fairy tale" material that should be more productive for your children.

I've said this before and I'll say it again....if you want to teach your children that there's a magical sky daddy theocracy that oversees everything you do from the time your born until eternity, that's your right-and such teaching should be conducted at home or in your favorite house of worship, but has no business in the public schools

remove the brainwashing "foisted" upon your children by the evil people calling themselves "The Faithful".

wrong...why should I have to undo what they never should have been exposed to in the first place.....if they want to turn to religion at some point in the future when they're old enough to make an informed decision, that's their perrogative....but I simply won't stand for a bunch of fucking neanderthals scaring the shit out of my kids with fairy tales and threats of eternal punishment unless they behave according to "Christian values"

[titlover]

I simply won't stand for a bunch of fucking neanderthals scaring the shit out of my kids with fairy tales and threats of eternal punishment unless they behave according to "Christian values"

And where, exactly, is this happening again?

Oh, do you let your kids watch TV?

scary how close to global warming that whole scenario is.....substitute christian values with green values.....

[Tom In VA]

That's right titlover. Precisely. It's human nature. I have a little bit of truth, you better recognize, and if you don't ... why I'm going to make your life a living hell. How else am I supposed to get rich and powerful.

Felix,
Seriously, calm down, get a grip, relax a little bit. There are millions of fucking propaganda machines out there trying to get into your kids head. No bullshit.

I understand your disdain for all things Judeo Christian, but turn the fucking channel dude. Nobody forces your children to see or hear these things. You're funny. I'll bet when your enemy, the Christers complain about the sex, violence, and suggestive material all over the place; that you're the first to tell them to shut the fuck up and turn the channel or raise their children. Well, follow that model. Turn the fucking channel.

Follow up with your child and explain that what they're seeing and hearing is only one view, it's not your view, you hope it's not the child's view but that people are free to express their views in this country. Tell them to get a good grade in the class to get through it and succeed. I don't know about you, but when I'm walking through tall grass, I want to know precisely where the bullshit and snake holes are. Tell him the teachers are just informing them of - "fairy tales that the less fortunate and weaker kids need to hear". I don't know, do what it takes. But please, for the love of science .... STOP CRYING.

As for the "monster under the bed". When lil' Felix comes in at night crying about the fact some mean man told him that he might go to hell because daddy doesn't read the "Good Book" to him every night. Tell lil' felix the following.

1. There is no heaven or hell.
2. There is no God.
3. We are simply organic lifeforms with overactive brains that cause us to imagine things other animals probably do not.
4. When we die, we die, our bodies decay and go back to the earth to form more "soup" for the evolutionary cycle to stir.
Key, yes, evolutionary cycle - remember life had to begin somewhere - so why not a primordial ooze of elements and goo.
5. The "Good Book" is a fictional work used throughout centuries to do one thing. Oppress.

These are the things you know to be true. So share them with your progeny. He is being misguided by all these neanderthals and it really is YOUR RESPONSIBILITY to set him straight. Just be honest with the child.

Good luck.

[Tom In VA]

They are both faith based systems of belief completely unsupported by any real evidence.

You forgot profitable.

[War Wagon]

..well unlike you, I don't feel the need to regale a bunch of fucking strangers about my personal life..

Of course, you've got plenty more to hide in those compartmentalized closets. And trust me, I really don't want to know about your personal life. It would remind me about that essay contest for Bronco tickets where you dreamed fantasized about chloroforming some unsuspecting blogger and having your way....

It puts on the lotion...

But oh, the righteous indignation over children being taught something you disagree with...

I call bullshit on you having any kids. Most anybody that's been posting on these boards for any amount of time has made reference at one time or another to their children.

But not you, until now, when it serves your interest.

[Felix]

And where, exactly, is this happening again?

Oh, do you let your kids watch TV?

lots of state board's of education are trying the same thing...hopefully they'll fail just as miserably as they did in delaware

as for my kids watching tv...sure, but trust me PTL and the 700 club are strictly taboo....parental controls are a wonderful thing